League reconstruction . Is the answer staring us in the face

sammy1872

Well-Known Member
For all the different ideas for league reconstruction I don’t believe I’ve heard this one mentioned . It even reduces the league games which in todays Calendar likely helps

12 team league
Play each other home and away - 22 games
Split at that point top 6 bottom 6
Play each other home and away again - 10 games
32 total

Means every team plays the exact same teams in battle of title/Europe/relegation . No 2 away games at Livingston then they finish bottom 6 so that lot don’t play them a 2nd time etc .
 
For all the different ideas for league reconstruction I don’t believe I’ve heard this one mentioned . It even reduces the league games which in todays Calendar likely helps

12 team league
Play each other home and away - 22 games
Split at that point top 6 bottom 6
Play each other home and away again - 10 games
32 total

Means every team plays the exact same teams in battle of title/Europe/relegation . No 2 away games at Livingston then they finish bottom 6 so that lot don’t play them a 2nd time etc .

No amount of restructuring will solve the problem of lack of competition. Our top league is embarrassing. Its one of the least competitive in the world and its all down to the way the money is distributed.
 
There's already hardly any money in Scottish football never mind reducing the number of league matches from 38 to 32. Clubs would lose a fortune through ticket revenue and the tv deal would also be reduced. It will obviously never happen.
 
Should 2 leagues. Top league with 20 teams and the second with 24. This means that both the lowland league and highland league champions get promoted in the first year.

Bottom 2 teams relegated automatically and third bottom playoff v 3rd placed second division side. The second league would have two going down to either highland or lowland league.

Will never happen because the shitty wee teams like StMirren won’t want to two home games v us and Celtic.
 
No amount of restructuring will solve the problem of lack of competition. Our top league is embarrassing. Its one of the least competitive in the world and its all down to the way the money is distributed.
It's all down to two teams having massive fanbases compared to the rest. Doesnt matter how you distribute money if us and them have about four times the number of season tickets holders as the next best
 
It's all down to two teams having massive fanbases compared to the rest. Doesnt matter how you distribute money if us and them have about four times the number of season tickets holders as the next best
Pretty much and nothing will ever change that

Rangers and that lot just simply have too much of a support share in Scotland. I'd probably bet 95% if not higher support one of the old firm. Not just season tickets but merch revenue too.

The only way we will ever get true competition is by moving to England where the support share is distributed more fairly and clubs have a similar level of support to us
 
Should 2 leagues. Top league with 20 teams and the second with 24. This means that both the lowland league and highland league champions get promoted in the first year.

Bottom 2 teams relegated automatically and third bottom playoff v 3rd placed second division side. The second league would have two going down to either highland or lowland league.

Will never happen because the shitty wee teams like StMirren won’t want to two home games v us and Celtic.

This for me.

Reinstate the Glasgow Cup (and have an Edinburgh Cup, Dundee Cup) as a two legged final and include it as part of the TV package to sweeten it for the broadcaster, guaranteeing them the 4 derbies.
 
There are no teams who’ll give up 1 or 2 away visits from us or the bheggars because frankly that’s what’s keeping their lights on

The only possible way for that to work (playing each team twice) would be a 16 or 18 team league but to do that you’d need better sponsorship and agreement from us and the filth that the “smaller teams” would get a larger share of the money to support missing out on the revenue loss of less away visits

But that won’t happen either because the people running our game are incompetent boobs who see no value in our game other than what they can make for themselves.

La liga sponsored by Banco Santander €20m per season

Ligue 1 sponsored by Uber eats €32m per season

EPL sponsored by Barclays £20m-31m per season

We get a shitty used car dealership as a sponsor for £8m over 5 years. Sorry, £7.5m over 5 years after square Heid decided to have a 3rd party negotiate the deal
 
For all the different ideas for league reconstruction I don’t believe I’ve heard this one mentioned . It even reduces the league games which in todays Calendar likely helps

12 team league
Play each other home and away - 22 games
Split at that point top 6 bottom 6
Play each other home and away again - 10 games
32 total

Means every team plays the exact same teams in battle of title/Europe/relegation . No 2 away games at Livingston then they finish bottom 6 so that lot don’t play them a 2nd time etc .
No way they will only have 32 league games.A 14 team league splitting into 6 (top) and 8 (bottom) at the halfway point would mean 36 games.
 
This for me.

Reinstate the Glasgow Cup (and have an Edinburgh Cup, Dundee Cup) as a two legged final and include it as part of the TV package to sweeten it for the broadcaster, guaranteeing them the 4 derbies.
Derbies played between teams of youths won't be appealing to TV companies cos that's what that would be.
 
22 initial games where every team plays each other home and away.

The top 6 then plays the bottom 6 away from home (6 more games).

The top 6 and bottom 6 then play each other home and away (10 more games).

38 games in total, every team is guaranteed 2 home games agains the Old Firm, and every team plays the same teams the same number of times (no instances where we can go away to Livi 3 times and they're at home to them for example).

Sorted.
 
Mentioned this on the Ajax Model thread. The only way we improve the quality and number of youths brought through in this country is by increasing to an 18 or 20 team league. Us, them, hibs, hearts, Dundee utd, Aberdeen and anyone else who can afford it also get to have a B team in the lower leagues up to and including what would be left of the championship so the youths can play competitive football against grown men from the day they sign a professional contract. Games against the bottom teams can then be used to gradually bed them into the first teams. Long term leads to fewer big transfer fees required for us and them, lower overall wages, less lower English and Irish league journeymen blocking pathways and any prospects with serious potential inevitably heading South for decent money after standing out in real matches instead of for peanuts.

Will never, ever happen unless the governing body enforce it on the leagues for the good of the game as it will be voted down constantly due to short sightedness and self preservation from the smaller clubs with only a few hundred fans and zero ambition but an equal say in the structure of the game. What we have just now is as low as we've ever been imo. A governing body unfit for purpose, 2 league associations that couldn't agree on the colour of grass and bicker amongst themselves, and an over reliance on Sky money, as little as it is, ensuring the status quo. It won't change for the better in my lifetime, I'd imagine. The only way we, or they, improve is if we ever gain access to the English leagues, again not in my lifetime.
 
It's all down to two teams having massive fanbases compared to the rest. Doesnt matter how you distribute money if us and them have about four times the number of season tickets holders as the next best

Of course it matters. Years ago gate receipts were shared. Just because its mainly ST now doesnt mean we couldnt go back to the original method. We could also share other sources of income including european money, sponsorship cash etc etc. Of course we'd need a proper transition period and have to make allowances for overheads but there's no other way to make our league competitive.

In addition we'd need to introduce a sustainable and affordable salary scale for all players. This is NOT a salary cap. Its a salary scale enabling the "diddy" clubs to keep their best players and helping them build young exciting competitive teams.

Sport isnt worth watching without competition and our league is virtually competition free.

I cant be bothered explaining further.
 
'Splits' are fundamentally mental, 7th placed team potentially ending the season with more points than the 6th placed team is stupid
But they don’t.
the bottom 6 is a league on its own after the split. The points total of the teams in the bottom is irrelevant to the teams in the top 6.
 
It’s never going to happen, as it stands all clubs in the SPFL have 3 guaranteed fixtures against Rangers/Celtic at home (2 vs us, 1 vs them or visa versa)

With that proposal, they’d lose 1 guaranteed home game with all the income that comes with it.

Obviously you could argue that’s the incentive to be top 6 but why would St Mirren/Ross County etc vote for it when they’re always finishing bottom 6?

Complete non starter
 
Of course it matters. Years ago gate receipts were shared. Just because its mainly ST now doesnt mean we couldnt go back to the original method. We could also share other sources of income including european money, sponsorship cash etc etc. Of course we'd need a proper transition period and have to make allowances for overheads but there's no other way to make our league competitive.

In addition we'd need to introduce a sustainable and affordable salary scale for all players. This is NOT a salary cap. Its a salary scale enabling the "diddy" clubs to keep their best players and helping them build young exciting competitive teams.

Sport isnt worth watching without competition and our league is virtually competition free.

I cant be bothered explaining further.
Hahahaha very good

So some of our fans pay £2k for STs to watch Rangers but then our ST sales, our biggest source of income, is split between other teams :D

Burst out laughing at the thought
 
The whole structure needs a reboot, should only be 1 or 2 divisions below the Premiership imo and both the highland and lowland league champions should gain promotion.

More ambitious clubs like Kelty Hearts should be encouraged and rid the game of teams that solely exist to survive in league 1/League 2.

Plastic pitches out and a new marketing team to make Scottish football look entertaining and interesting to the rest of the world.
 
No amount of restructuring will solve the problem of lack of competition. Our top league is embarrassing. Its one of the least competitive in the world and its all down to the way the money is distributed.
It’s been that way for 35 years. It’s not about how (tv) money is distributed up here. Because it’s pretty much non existent.

The majority of money is raised via season tickets (and other associated revenue) which then leads into European revenue.

Unless you are saying we pass out our club generated revenue then there is no solution
 
Of course it matters. Years ago gate receipts were shared. Just because its mainly ST now doesnt mean we couldnt go back to the original method. We could also share other sources of income including european money, sponsorship cash etc etc. Of course we'd need a proper transition period and have to make allowances for overheads but there's no other way to make our league competitive.
For sure, it would take years for Scottish football to adapt to those Sunday league levels of football should that happen.
 
Best model i'd seen (with a split) is for the Premiership and Championship to have 12 teams each.
  • Play each team twice home and away (22 games - 2 x 11);
  • After 22 games, the top 8 in the Premiership split and play each other twice (14 games - 2x7) to give a 36 game season;
  • The bottom 4 joins the top 4 from the Championship and plays off for 4 Premiership spots the following year. The bottom 8 in the Championship plays off for relegation.
Failing that, it should be an 18 or 20 team league playing twice. It's the only way Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen will be able to challenge for the league, and adding Kilmarnock, Partick Thistle, Raith Rovers, Dunfermline, Inverness CT, Hamilton, Morton, etc will firstly provide more variety, and secondly won't dilute the quality too much.
 
No amount of restructuring will solve the problem of lack of competition. Our top league is embarrassing. Its one of the least competitive in the world and its all down to the way the money is distributed.
Ironically, I think the only real chance any of the other teams have of winning the league is going back to only playing us and Celtic twice a year rather than four times.
Someone could feasibly go on a run beating all the other teams and get lucky and ‘break even’ over 4 matches against the OF sides, but no way over 8 matches.
 
No.

The only reconstruction acceptable is for Celtic to be put into a league of their own and every other team play as normal
 
Hahahaha very good

So some of our fans pay £2k for STs to watch Rangers but then our ST sales, our biggest source of income, is split between other teams :D

Burst out laughing at the thought
Me to
Of course it matters. Years ago gate receipts were shared. Just because its mainly ST now doesnt mean we couldnt go back to the original method. We could also share other sources of income including european money, sponsorship cash etc etc. Of course we'd need a proper transition period and have to make allowances for overheads but there's no other way to make our league competitive.

In addition we'd need to introduce a sustainable and affordable salary scale for all players. This is NOT a salary cap. Its a salary scale enabling the "diddy" clubs to keep their best players and helping them build young exciting competitive teams.

Sport isnt worth watching without competition and our league is virtually competition free.

I cant be bothered explaining further.
Their is no competition because the league set up is so small we are expected to win against the rest 80% of the time them too it then comes down to games against us and them.

Increased league size to 18 or 20 and take the hit for less old firm games play each other twice only.

Then put stipulations for youth players playing and subs but also governing body to use the youth football development fund to pay clubs that playing home grown players.
 
The issue with Scottish Football isn't the league structure, although I'd love 2 leagues of 24, it's the SPFL not having a decent marketing and sales model. Until the league has proper savvy leadership who appreciate and promote it's worth, we will be struggling.
 
For all the different ideas for league reconstruction I don’t believe I’ve heard this one mentioned . It even reduces the league games which in todays Calendar likely helps

12 team league
Play each other home and away - 22 games
Split at that point top 6 bottom 6
Play each other home and away again - 10 games
32 total

Means every team plays the exact same teams in battle of title/Europe/relegation . No 2 away games at Livingston then they finish bottom 6 so that lot don’t play them a 2nd time etc .
What’s staring right back at you is “no chance”.
Less games, less games v Rangers and Celtic, less income, nothing else matters, end of story.
 
No amount of restructuring will solve the problem of lack of competition. Our top league is embarrassing. Its one of the least competitive in the world and its all down to the way the money is distributed.
No amount of restructuring will solve the problem of lack of competition. Our top league is embarrassing. Its one of the least competitive in the world and its all down to the way the money is EARNED,.
 
'Splits' are fundamentally mental, 7th placed team potentially ending the season with more points than the 6th placed team is stupid
That’s akin to thinking it isn’t right that the top teams in the championship have more points than the teams in the premiership!
The split becomes two different leagues.
 
For all the different ideas for league reconstruction I don’t believe I’ve heard this one mentioned . It even reduces the league games which in todays Calendar likely helps

12 team league
Play each other home and away - 22 games
Split at that point top 6 bottom 6
Play each other home and away again - 10 games
32 total

Means every team plays the exact same teams in battle of title/Europe/relegation . No 2 away games at Livingston then they finish bottom 6 so that lot don’t play them a 2nd time etc .
That won't happen - too much lost income.

But the tweak would be a 14 team league

Home and away once = 26 games

Split into 2 groups of seven and home and away again = 12 games

Still 38 games and every team gets 2 game days off at the end of the season when injuries/tiredness etc are kicking in.
 
Too many teams.Until some merge Scotland will be a backwater where the common denominator is catering for the lowest teams.
 
No amount of restructuring will solve the problem of lack of competition. Our top league is embarrassing. Its one of the least competitive in the world and its all down to the way the money is distributed.
You could give Rangers and Celtics prize money and tv money to all the other clubs and it wouldn’t make the slightest difference.
 
If teams like Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs etc really wanted to be serious they should start by selling out their own stadiums 1st
 
Ultimately the way you grow support for the smaller teams is by making them more competitive, and end the OF duopoly.

In order to do so, I think the league needs to redistribute matchday ticket income. This in turn would significantly hamper our income and that's a major stumbling block.
 
Looks like our game is doomed judging by the responses to the ONLY thing that can save it.

I suppose the best thing to do is move to two leagues. A top division of two teams called the OF league where we play each other every week and a second division called the Diddy league. That way we can "earn" the max amount of money to give away to our super rich players and the diddy team players can go part time.

We can rebuild and expand Ibrox with all the extra money we scoop up and the diddy clubs can merge, ground share and play on plastic pitches.
 
For all the different ideas for league reconstruction I don’t believe I’ve heard this one mentioned . It even reduces the league games which in todays Calendar likely helps

12 team league
Play each other home and away - 22 games
Split at that point top 6 bottom 6
Play each other home and away again - 10 games
32 total

Means every team plays the exact same teams in battle of title/Europe/relegation . No 2 away games at Livingston then they finish bottom 6 so that lot don’t play them a 2nd time etc .
Reduce the current top 12 to 11 - play each team home and away twice = an extra 2 games a season with the guarantee of 2 visits a season from both the Rangers and Celtic but more importantly does away with the farcical split.
Pretty sure we could play the extra 2 games by doing away with equally farcical 3 week winter shutdown period
 
Any idea that reduces the amount of home games for teams is never going to fly.

I'd be interested in adding more teams to the equation simply for variety but systems reducing games for the jobber teams are never going to fly.

For reference Cambridge Utd have 46 league games this season, plus the League and FA cups plus the EFL trophy.
 
None of the SPFL teams will want to give up their potential 6-8 games vs the OF each season which makes any voting difficult.

I'd vote for a bigger SPFL with the introduction of the the Rangers Colts at the lowest tier.
 
Things that must be kept to keep sponsors etc happy .

1. 4 old firm games
2. Split as it adds excitement during a close title race

As a result a 14 team league is my preference splitting after 2 rounds (26 games). Split in to top 6 and bottom 8. Play a further 2 rounds

Advantages are that it means slightly less games for the top teams which should help with fixture congestion (36) and more gate receipts for the smaller teams who are less likely to be in cup finals etc (40)
 
If teams like Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs etc really wanted to be serious they should start by selling out their own stadiums 1st

I worked in a high school as a Home School Partnership Officer. Very few pupils used the school canteen and I carried out some resesrch to find out why. The vast majority said the menu was awful but if they had more variety they'd use the canteen. I approached the canteen manager to tell her about my findings and give her the good news that there was a solution to the lack of pupils dining in the canteen. She replied that she'd only fix the menu after the pupils returned.

Reminds me of your post.
 
Ultimately the way you grow support for the smaller teams is by making them more competitive, and end the OF duopoly.

In order to do so, I think the league needs to redistribute matchday ticket income. This in turn would significantly hamper our income and that's a major stumbling block.

Good to see some posters understand the problem.

The issue cant be solved by restructuring the leagues. We have to create real competition and that means sharing the income more evenly AND stopping the money flowing out of the game on ridiculous salaries for some.

You cant fill a bath if the plug is out.
 
The most important factor for me personally would be summer football, I know its not everyone's cup of tea but it would really benefit us in Europe and allow a proper break in winter
 
Think there is a few factors , a bigger league playing each other twice would help teams as teams can go on runs beating other sides outwith the OF , we need better people to run our game and attract investment, fans of other clubs need to take a look at themselves they are quite happy to turn up for cup finals but dont turn up every week , if they sold out their grounds week in week out they could bring in revenue to buy better players
 
Things that must be kept to keep sponsors etc happy .

1. 4 old firm games
2. Split as it adds excitement during a close title race

As a result a 14 team league is my preference splitting after 2 rounds (26 games). Split in to top 6 and bottom 8. Play a further 2 rounds

Advantages are that it means slightly less games for the top teams which should help with fixture congestion (36) and more gate receipts for the smaller teams who are less likely to be in cup finals etc (40)

Why do we need sponsorship money? Is it so some players can buy Ferraris? Scottish football cant afford to waste money on these deals. Time to get back to basics and start bringing in young Scottish players like Patterson etc. We'll still lose your Gilmours but we do anyway.

Save our Soccer!
 
Good to see some posters understand the problem.

The issue cant be solved by restructuring the leagues. We have to create real competition and that means sharing the income more evenly AND stopping the money flowing out of the game on ridiculous salaries for some.

You cant fill a bath if the plug is out.

"real competition" is the biggest load of pious bullshit that can be said when it comes to sport in a league, there will always, always simply end up being sides who end up more dominant than others.

The EPL is in reality only ever going to be won by 4 or 5 teams, there isn't real competition yet fans of sides still attend in huge numbers and haven't simply stopped going because they can't be arsed by the idea their side might not win a trophy.

In recent years in Scotland St Johnstone, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Motherwell, Inverness, Ross County Livingston have all made Finals or won trophies, the chance to see their teams find success has been there and it's made next to no difference to their general attendance and level of interest.

There is a pretty reasonable chance for teams in Scotland to see their team win a trophy now and then, fans just aren't there for those clubs week to week TBH
 
Think there is a few factors , a bigger league playing each other twice would help teams as teams can go on runs beating other sides outwith the OF , we need better people to run our game and attract investment, fans of other clubs need to take a look at themselves they are quite happy to turn up for cup finals but dont turn up every week , if they sold out their grounds week in week out they could bring in revenue to buy better players

We had 200k in Manchester. I guess we must have a waiting list for STs of 150k.
 
"real competition" is the biggest load of pious bullshit that can be said when it comes to sport in a league, there will always, always simply end up being sides who end up more dominant than others.

The EPL is in reality only ever going to be won by 4 or 5 teams, there isn't real competition yet fans of sides still attend in huge numbers and haven't simply stopped going because they can't be arsed by the idea their side might not win a trophy.

In recent years in Scotland St Johnstone, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Motherwell, Inverness, Ross County Livingston have all made Finals or won trophies, the chance to see their teams find success has been there and it's made next to no difference to their general attendance and level of interest.

There is a pretty reasonable chance for teams in Scotland to see their team win a trophy now and then, fans just aren't there for those clubs week to week TBH

OK. You're right.
 
Back
Top