Patrick Harvie tweet

Some people, when they sing, point their fingers in the sky. Some people sing with their hands by their side. Some people sing with one/two hands in the air.

When I go to a night out/gigs in Glasgow I put one hand in the air. A photo of me at the right time at the Killers gig and it could be taken as a nazi salute.

They make the photos work to suit their agenda.
 
They've been trying to pin that one on us for decades: it's a lie, a quite deliberate one, and what's more they know it.
Sometimes you do things kind of automatic without thinking quite innocently after all you are at a football match not a political rally,Harvie is a life long career politician he can't for one minute understand the mindset of a typical football supporter,It seems pretty obvious to me he has been fed some one sided propaganda.
 
Dont know why your replying tp my post about a slur. If you cant see why a straight arm raised with an open hand cannot be uses by an agenda driven media as a nzi salute then there's no point in me continuing a discussion on it.
So no answer as to why a raised arm in yourmind =nazi salute. Maybe best we just ignore each other.
 
Wow. I thought it was just the nutty SNP folk pretending it was a nazi salute to get us bad press.

Some of our own are pretending the same?

I know some boys in that group and find it fucking laughable anyone accusing them of being nazis.

Get a grip, its a boy lifting his hand up ffs.
Laughable indeed, now our own support jumping on the bandwagon.

It’s clear as day it’s not, just look at the video footage!

Some need to look at themselves if they think this is some sort of Nazi group!

Ps I’ve just found pictures on google of the shite brigade march, I would post it on here But im not, many people making the same lifting hand gestures!
 
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Laughable indeed, now our own support jumping on the bandwagon.

It’s clear as day it’s not, just look at the video footage!

Some need to look at themselves if they think this is some sort of Nazi group!

Ps I’ve just found pictures on google of the shite brigade march, I would post it on here But im not, many people making the same lifting hand gestures!
I made the same point about their. Gb marches earlier in the thread
 
f..K these anti Rangers/British CANTS it's about time bears woke up they HATE us and everything we represent and it hurts them WE are getting and growing stronger.
WATP
 
Embarrass myself?

What's the economic calculation problem?

The problem is with the illogical political drivel. You can't just just throw random nouns and adjectives left over from a Daily Mail editorial meeting together and think it's political gold.

Conflating different political systems, a view of fascism that wouldn't be out of place in a Steve Bannon wet dream and describing a Green as 'a filthy rabid communist red shirt lefty'?

Chill, man.
 
The problem is with the illogical political drivel. You can't just just throw random nouns and adjectives left over from a Daily Mail editorial meeting together and think it's political gold.

Conflating different political systems, a view of fascism that wouldn't be out of place in a Steve Bannon wet dream and describing a Green as 'a filthy rabid communist red shirt lefty'?

Chill, man.

I'm someone who strongly understands the left like the back of my hand, understands their mindset, how their minds tick, how they're driven not by reason, but by emotion; a person with very strong knowledge in what I speak of and I certainly did not pick that up from some Daily Mail article.

As for those who support Celtic? A lot of them are sympathetic to the left, one only needs to look at the difference between Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland to see this. I understand things aren't exactly black and white, but you do generally tend to find that people who do support separatism of Scotland going its own way and support the "united Ireland" do tend to sway to the left.

All it takes is an understanding of their mentality, for example; the hatred of everything British or American by the left, apparently in their head, everything of being proud of being British means the support of British Imperialism and Colonialism etc. Look at the left's view of American patriots, they associate racism and slavery of the past and you can generally spot these people because they're self-loathing, in other words; everything British is despised because it's associated with imperialism and colonialism in their narrow-minded view and everything American is associated with the KKK and slavery.

Of course, history paints a very different picture, but that's how you can see the majority of their support are leftist, by their ignorance of British history.
 
I'm someone who strongly understands the left like the back of my hand, understands their mindset, how their minds tick, how they're driven not by reason, but by emotion; a person with very strong knowledge in what I speak of and I certainly did not pick that up from some Daily Mail article.

As for those who support Celtic? A lot of them are sympathetic to the left, one only needs to look at the difference between Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland to see this. I understand things aren't exactly black and white, but you do generally tend to find that people who do support separatism of Scotland going its own way and support the "united Ireland" do tend to sway to the left.

All it takes is an understanding of their mentality, for example; the hatred of everything British or American by the left, apparently in their head, everything of being proud of being British means the support of British Imperialism and Colonialism etc. Look at the left's view of American patriots, they associate racism and slavery of the past and you can generally spot these people because they're self-loathing, in other words; everything British is despised because it's associated with imperialism and colonialism in their narrow-minded view and everything American is associated with the KKK and slavery.

Of course, history paints a very different picture, but that's how you can see the majority of their support are leftist, by their ignorance of British history.

Hate to break this to you mate, but as a fifty something who is in and of the Left I can tell you that you have zero insight into my mindset, motivation and modus operandi - or that of most of the people I associate with politically. Half of what you say above is fine, but half of it really isn't.

(This isn't the place to batter on with this, but if at any time you're prepared to reconsider your trenchantly held views, I'd be happy to chat via PM.)
 
I wouldn't need to, if anyone wishes to find myself they can find me on YouTube: Libertarian Views Scotty M. As for understanding the mindset of the left like the back of my hand? I stated that because I've debated countless leftists, not one has been any different, one word sums them up to a tee: irrational.
 
I don't know why people get annoyed at eejits such as Harvie.
If he annoys you so much, then clatter the runt first time you see him.
Either that or he will shoot himself in the foot soon as they can't help themselves.
 
Ah our good friend Mr Harvie;

I have had correspondence with him after a few "talking points" in Scottish football, which it appears he likes to comment on, selectively.

This was his reply when I questioned him on what he thought of the "Kill All Huns" and the mock hangings. As a note of interest, Mr Harvie did not publicly tweet anything about this game or the scences.

Thank you for your email. I’m sure we’re all aware of vile and unacceptable behaviour which took place on both sides on Saturday. I certainly support Police Scotland in taking such behaviour seriously, including where the context includes any aspect of hate crime.

I also believe that the clubs themselves must also be held accountable for the behaviour of their fans. It would of course be regrettable for those fans who are not aggressive or violent, if their sport is made to suffer because of the behaviour of others. However public safety must be a higher priority, and there will surely be little sympathy for those who only see fault amongst supporters of a rival football team rather than among their own fellow fans.

It’s astonishing and dismaying to the majority of people in Glasgow that some people appear incapable of treating a game of football as the innocent recreation it ought to be.

Sincerely,

Patrick Harvie 13/09/16

Note, both sides. Now without any blue tinted specs on, I do not recall and "vile or unacceptable behaviour" on such a scale that day?

Below is another reply from Mr Harvie regarding the anti-semetic scenes that were on show during a midweek in August 2016. As above mr Harvie did make a public tweet, congratulating everyone involved in the display.

Thanks you for your email. I fully support a robust approach to all hate crime, including the appalling comments described in the Daily Record article. To refer to anyone as subhuman, whether on grounds of their religious identity or on grounds of their political ideology, is entirely unacceptable. Legitimate criticism of the actions and ideology of the Israeli Government, or expressions of support for the people of Palestine, must never be used as cover for antisemitism.

I also believe that it's equally important to protect legitimate freedom of speech and political expression, and there have certainly been instances in which sport has been an important place in which serious issues can be challenged. Few people now would deny the valuable role that was played by activism in sport to oppose the Apartheid regime in South Africa, and the recent posthumous apology given by the Austrialian Parliament to Peter Norman for his actions in support of the Black Power salute at the 1968 Olympics is another example of the legitimate and important role that political expression can play in sport.

I would be concerned therefore at any suggestion that opposing antisemitism or other hate crimes is incompatible with the right of anyone, including football fans, to express peaceful support for Palestine. I would urge both the football authorities and Police Scotland to place the required emphasis on robustly challenging and policing any and all hate crime, and on protecting legitimate freedom of speech and political expression. Neither of these priorities should be seen to exclude or undermine the other.

Sincerely,

Patrick Harvie 15/08/16


Now we are constantly told to keep politics and football seperate, it would now appear that Mr Harvie, would appear to not hold this view and that a sporting arena is seemingly an appropriate stage to push support for a political ideology,as long as its Palestine, left wing views or basically anything just aslong as it's not remotely right wing because well, that's just down right wrong, bigoted and sectarian.

Make your mind up.
 
I wouldn't need to, if anyone wishes to find myself they can find me on YouTube: Libertarian Views Scotty M. As for understanding the mindset of the left like the back of my hand? I stated that because I've debated countless leftists, not one has been any different, one word sums them up to a tee: irrational.

Aye, whatever.
 
Paddy, you are irrelevant, left field clown, another boring Rangers hater and a pathetic poodle for herr Nikla. Stfu.
 
The problem is 99% of people seeing that associate it with Nazism /fascism
see if you look atvsone of the other pica you will see everyone clapping i presune the oicture has been taken mid shot a mountain out of a mole hill b3cause its another way to set the agenda on us. %^*& them im a proud white unionist gers fan and theres %^*& all the matter with it. I love the hate:cool:
 
You dont need to try hard to dumb your brain down as you are already there. This picture could have been taken whilst they had been holding their hands up whilst singing or shouting something.

you are seeing what you want to see.


oh christ.. didnt realise they did a nazi style salute in harry Potter



harry-potter.jpg
 
Weirdly his party are the only party in Scotland who want to abolish our apartheid education system. The catholic establishment hate the Green Party.

Do they? My understanding was that the Green Party in England want to abolish faith schools. However the Green Party in Scotland are ambivalent on the issue. I could be wrong, but that was the case a number of years ago.

Does anyone know if Harvie has been contacted re the abuse of Russell Martin ?
 
what are you talking about? Two young lads raising their arms and for you, that's a"Nazi salute"! the lads could have had their arms raised singing or chanting and the picture doesn't completely give them the full picture of what happened at that moment in time when it as taken.

Every picture tells a story..

I'm sure we've all seen iconic photographs, the young girl in vietnam running naked after the American military napalm her village is one, that was a moment in time. It also fuelled the anti war protests back in the states.

Those may not be iconic photographs but to a casual observor they would look like nazi salutes especially with their faces covered. This allows others to run with the narrative while we, well some of us anyway, try and defend it.

The problem here is that you, and others are trying to defend the indefensible, the guys don't look as if they're singing, chanting or even clapping, seeing as they've only got one arm raised that would be kinda difficult.

It's about time that we got our shit together and mibbe get a bit more media savvy, without becoming the tartan trannies that is.

It's tiresome being constantly on the back foot having to defend ourselves from our various enemies because of some fans stupidity. The ironic thing is i reckon they'd hate us even more if we stopped giving them the ammo which would be a fantastic result:)
 
I could be wrong but I think the Greens in Scotland wanting to abolish seperate schooling was more of a thing under Robin Harper's leadership.

Think the issue was quickly forgotten when he was replaced.
 
Every picture tells a story..

I'm sure we've all seen iconic photographs, the young girl in vietnam running naked after the American military napalm her village is one, that was a moment in time. It also fuelled the anti war protests back in the states.

Those may not be iconic photographs but to a casual observor they would look like nazi salutes especially with their faces covered. This allows others to run with the narrative while we, well some of us anyway, try and defend it.

The problem here is that you, and others are trying to defend the indefensible, the guys don't look as if they're singing, chanting or even clapping, seeing as they've only got one arm raised that would be kinda difficult.

It's about time that we got our shit together and mibbe get a bit more media savvy, without becoming the tartan trannies that is.

It's tiresome being constantly on the back foot having to defend ourselves from our various enemies because of some fans stupidity. The ironic thing is i reckon they'd hate us even more if we stopped giving them the ammo which would be a fantastic result:)


again as I've asked others, why automatically do you look at that and think they because they have their arm raised are doing or look like they doing a Nazi salute? you also state they"have their faces covered"", so what? the brits a few weeks ag0 had the grime artist stormzy with a backing choir that all had their faces covered with balaclavas so do I take from that all black people are threatening..of course, i don't!

People like yourself have the football equivalent to battered wives syndrome in that its always us that as a support that has to be in the wrong, even though the GB have had plenty of similar marches and there are plenty of pictures and videos of their marches with their marches raising their arms in a very similar fashion to the lads from the UB at the weekend..
 
There's plenty of pictures of the green brigade doing Nazi salutes, they must be right wing extremists as well then:rolleyes:
 
Just a nasty little republican playing to his audience.
Again people fooled on here that nationalists are socialists. Nationalists adopt the clothes of whatever is the natural leaning of any nation.
In England it leans to the right in Scotland a naturally moderately left leaning country they pretend to be this.
Policies though tell you what they are , republican nationalists.
 
Agreed.

There are certain posters on this thread who are 'suspect' to say the least and are actually siding with that we khunt Harvie.

Can't beat a good FF witch-hunt, anyway man up & name them, if you're wrong with any you should be banned.

I've not seen anyone siding with that vile tosser.
 
I have held my hand up on occasions when singing certain songs,At no time did I think I was giving a facist Nazi salute in fact I have and do consider myself fairly left wing in my politics.

You held up one hand whilst singing?

It's all about context, what the circumstances are at that particular time.

We can all sit in our wee bubble telling each other that no way is it a nazi salute, in the meantime the world inexorably keeps turning.

We've got to wise up.
 
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again as I've asked others, why automatically do you look at that and think they because they have their arm raised are doing or look like they doing a Nazi salute? you also state they"have their faces covered"", so what? the brits a few weeks ag0 had the grime artist stormzy with a backing choir that all had their faces covered with balaclavas so do I take from that all black people are threatening..of course, i don't!

People like yourself have the football equivalent to battered wives syndrome in that its always us that as a support that has to be in the wrong, even though the GB have had plenty of similar marches and there are plenty of pictures and videos of their marches with their marches raising their arms in a very similar fashion to the lads from the UB at the weekend..
Bang on the money mate !!
 
  1. Mr Harvie saying clubs should be accountable.

Then surely MP's in Parliament should be accountable for all MP's allowed in the chamber, there should have been an order in place to remove undesirables.

Clubs can ban fans.
 
again as I've asked others, why automatically do you look at that and think they because they have their arm raised are doing or look like they doing a Nazi salute? you also state they"have their faces covered"", so what? the brits a few weeks ag0 had the grime artist stormzy with a backing choir that all had their faces covered with balaclavas so do I take from that all black people are threatening..of course, i don't!

People like yourself have the football equivalent to battered wives syndrome in that its always us that as a support that has to be in the wrong, even though the GB have had plenty of similar marches and there are plenty of pictures and videos of their marches with their marches raising their arms in a very similar fashion to the lads from the UB at the weekend..

Lolz, you post some amount of sh.ite. people like just want to stick your head in the sand.

I've never said that it's a nazi salute but it looks like it and that's what the problem is.

Do you have any understanding of context because it certainly doesnt look like it with you trying to link a harry potter film and an alan shearer goal celebration to the photo of the lads with their faces covered ang giving what has been interpreted as a nazi salute by our enemies.

If the fans done the same inside the ground do you think the club would defend the fans...I'll answer that for you, not a fkn chance in hell:)

By the way don't quote the fascist goon bawbags to me as i don't give a FF about them
 
Lolz, you post some amount of sh.ite. people like just want to stick your head in the sand.

I've never said that it's a nazi salute but it looks like it and that's what the problem is.

Do you have any understanding of context because it certainly doesnt look like it with you trying to link a harry potter film and an alan shearer goal celebration to the photo of the lads with their faces covered ang giving what has been interpreted as a nazi salute by our enemies.

If the fans done the same inside the ground do you think the club would defend the fans...I'll answer that for you, not a fkn chance in hell:)

By the way don't quote the fascist goon bawbags to me as i don't give a FF about them
I think there should be a helpline for rangers fans like yourself that suffer from this batteted wives syndrome.

You say;

"I've never said that it's a nazi salute but it looks like it and that's what the problem is"

christ almighty! raising your hand now equals a Nazi salute and that's what you should automatically equate this action with when you do it.. really!.

You clearly have failed to understand the point of why posters have posted the various pictures of people raising their hands so frankly on that you are a lost cause.

you also say don't mention the GB to you well tough, as the UB shouldn't be treated any different to their fan group which has had plenty of similar marches and if don't want parity for our supporters then it is you that posts some amount of nonsense!
 
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Seriously what’s the point anymore? Celtic fans can hang effigies of a Rangers fan and nothing is said, yet a Rangers fan wears a balaclava and it’s seen as “intimidation”. Look the left wing in Scotland is always going to attack anything that is seen as British (which is us in sporting terms) and turn a blind eye to anything that is in direct opposition to us. It’s been this way for years now and nothing’s going to change it. The Scottish Cup Final two years ago should’ve highlighted this to every Rangers fan.
 
You held up one hand whilst singing?

It's all about context, what the circumstances are at that particular time.

We can all sit in our wee bubble telling each other that no way is it a nazi salute, in the meantime the world inexorably keeps turning.

We've got to wise up.
The world keeps on turning because the world doesn't give a sh*t.

This is a Scottish tribalism issue. The context is tribalism. A common weapon deployed by the likes of Harvie are lies told deliberately to dehumanise the enemy tribe. He sees Rangers supporters as his enemy. It's not even about trying to influence opinion. Good people know the truth anyway. Everyone sees through these games.

The march was about Rangers supporters coming together, and approaching a crucial game against our worst enemy in togetherness. It wasn't about political awareness, it wasn't about winning friends and influencing people, and such marches never will be. It doesn't matter in the context of "PR wars". There is no PR in tribalism. Harvie is tribal, the SNP are tribal, Celtic are tribal, Rangers supporters are tribal. Tribal battles are about attrition.

The tribal media favour Celtic rather than us. Not through a sense of right or wrong, but due to their own prejudice. No matter what the Rangers support do, or say, the old media, supported by tribal politicians, will ensure it is reported negatively. It can't be emphasised enough, no matter what. There isn't any point in being concerned with them.

Digital is changing this reporting advantage the Rangers hating tribe hold. We're gaining some traction through social media platforms. Only in the sense we can get our version of events out. It still means nothing in the bigger picture of addressing Scotland's tribal society. It'll just mean there are two versions of events being reported. Doesn't change the fact a tribal war of attrition is being fought.

There are only going to be losers in this "war" until Scotland admits its tribalism at all levels, and takes genuine steps to find solutions.
 
Lolz, you post some amount of sh.ite. people like just want to stick your head in the sand.

I've never said that it's a nazi salute but it looks like it and that's what the problem is.

Do you have any understanding of context because it certainly doesnt look like it with you trying to link a harry potter film and an alan shearer goal celebration to the photo of the lads with their faces covered ang giving what has been interpreted as a nazi salute by our enemies.

If the fans done the same inside the ground do you think the club would defend the fans...I'll answer that for you, not a fkn chance in hell:)

By the way don't quote the fascist goon bawbags to me as i don't give a FF about them

You actually believe that drivel ? :confused: Why is that when any Rangers-hating clown, Harvie being just the latest of many, makes up utter unfounded bullshit about our support there are supposed Rangers fans willing to go along with their craziness ? Its no wonder they can away with their endless attacks on our club and fanbase.
 
As a few posters have said it's all about context,A political rally is different from a football match,As a gay man Harvey has probably more than his fare share bigoted comments aimed at him so it proves that gay men can be as bigoted as everyone else.
 
The world keeps on turning because the world doesn't give a sh*t.

This is a Scottish tribalism issue. The context is tribalism. A common weapon deployed by the likes of Harvie are lies told deliberately to dehumanise the enemy tribe. He sees Rangers supporters as his enemy. It's not even about trying to influence opinion. Good people know the truth anyway. Everyone sees through these games.

The march was about Rangers supporters coming together, and approaching a crucial game against our worst enemy in togetherness. It wasn't about political awareness, it wasn't about winning friends and influencing people, and such marches never will be. It doesn't matter in the context of "PR wars". There is no PR in tribalism. Harvie is tribal, the SNP are tribal, Celtic are tribal, Rangers supporters are tribal. Tribal battles are about attrition.

The tribal media favour Celtic rather than us. Not through a sense of right or wrong, but due to their own prejudice. No matter what the Rangers support do, or say, the old media, supported by tribal politicians, will ensure it is reported negatively. It can't be emphasised enough, no matter what. There isn't any point in being concerned with them.

Digital is changing this reporting advantage the Rangers hating tribe hold. We're gaining some traction through social media platforms. Only in the sense we can get our version of events out. It still means nothing in the bigger picture of addressing Scotland's tribal society. It'll just mean there are two versions of events being reported. Doesn't change the fact a tribal war of attrition is being fought.

There are only going to be losers in this "war" until Scotland admits its tribalism at all levels, and takes genuine steps to find solutions.

First step should be ending of BBC licence fee (and a campaign for that) and no Bears should ever buy, click on or share Daily Record, Sun, Radio Clyde, Evening Times/Herald. For starters.
 
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