The fantasy of club1872 Members

OranjeBear said:
Can someone answer this one HONESTLY...

Dave King's claim seems to be that Rangers are being mismanaged by the incumbents in charge and that he wants them out. His claim is that he has Rangers best interests at heart and that's the reason for pushing for change - for the benefit of the Club.

Now, let's imagine Dave King didn't have a significant amount of capital tied up in Rangers shares that he seems to be desperate to sell to release the capital.

Would he still be as passionate about pushing for change, purely based on having the club's best interests at heart?
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Would he be as interested/passionate if he didn’t have millions in the club? No probably not although I think you’d struggle to find anyone who would be
 
My tuppance, which is worth less than that, is that Dave King walked away too soon. He should have stayed in place to oversee the transition to being "self sustainable" and then had an orderly transition out of the club. I'm not particularly keen on how the board are going about things since he "left" the scene but he played a substantial roll in that being the case so he either needs to get on board for the longer run or if he has opinions he can share them on here with the rest of us customers.
 
In simplistic terms. Does Dave King want in, or does he want out.

In, as in, being in charge and calling the shots.

Or out, as in, punting his shares.

If it’s the former, why doesn’t he offer to buy one of them out? Take control and be in charge. Clearly they would need to agree.

If it’s the latter, why is he pushing for change? Has he have replacements lined up?

What does he actually want?
 
Bear84 said:
I wonder if those being fed the anti Dave King lines by the Parks ever stop to wonder if they’re being played the same way DK is playing Club 1872?
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I tend to think this

I send up getting involved answering people when it's not factual or make my own thoughts

I think both sides are at it is a power struggle

We are caught in middle

Both sides have done good things for our club but both are failing us just now.

It's the end game we are guessing at

Kings side is I think pretty obvious he invested wanted his money back but in a way that let the fans think they had control over 1872 but he would have influence to

The current board again have done some great things and found money from no where but there's and end game as well which I suspect a sale for those that want out and leaving a preferred person in charge lot of rumours would suggest far east ie Gibson etc

Issue is this board to me in regards to plans and future is mute unless they are challenged personally

Fan engagement is joke ticketing is a mess, we generally feel ripped off.

We watch them challenge every decision going in defence of their players we throw ours under the bus ie Alfie red was he wrong yes did hibs players do same thing yes did anything happen to them no, they don't challenge the sfa to protect the players until someone gets hurt and we lose and it looks like sour grapes.

It's communication or lack off that makes things worse.

Even amending the resolution to 4 years when it has previously been annualy stinks that something else is going on and we are about to be screwed over
 
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Bear84 said:
I wonder if those being fed the anti Dave King lines by the Parks ever stop to wonder if they’re being played the same way DK is playing Club 1872?
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Took me a lot more words to ask the exact same question.

No answer still though.
 
OranjeBear said:
Can someone answer this one HONESTLY...

Dave King's claim seems to be that Rangers are being mismanaged by the incumbents in charge and that he wants them out. His claim is that he has Rangers best interests at heart and that's the reason for pushing for change - for the benefit of the Club.

Now, let's imagine Dave King didn't have a significant amount of capital tied up in Rangers shares that he seems to be desperate to sell to release the capital.

Would he still be as passionate about pushing for change, purely based on having the club's best interests at heart?
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Well over 50% (80, maybe?) of this board are saying the same thing.
We just don't have the platform.
So if I'm a fan, and they are fans, and King is a fan. And if he didn't have a MSM platform to say what the rest of the fans are saying.... Do I think he'd be as passionate as the rest of us?
Yes. Just less heard.
 
a_weir said:
Hold on, I thought the groupthink was that we hate the Parks and love King?

What's changed?
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I will tell you what has changed for me.
I used to have respect for both DK and DP.
Unfortunately over a number of years I came to the conclusion that DK is a compulsive liar.
The South African judges comments should have alerted us to this but I was happy to ignore because DK was one of us.
He is on a personal vendetta against DP and is very clever at saying things the fans want to hear and effortlessly lies to support his statements. The latest example being the board encouraged Steven Gerrard to take the Villa job. Nothing could be further from the truth.
DK is acting in his own interests not Rangers interests and regardless of any good he has done in the past my loyalty is to the club not individuals.
DP may have faults but I have never been given any reason to doubt his integrity.
 
In Walter We Trust said:
Only 1 guy shit stirring and that’s DK , can’t believe I’m actually saying that , sad state of affairs
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This thread is all about shit stirring certain people with an agenda against King and Club 1872
No one on the board or King comes out this smelling of Roses.

Us real fans just want the club run properly with a decent amount of cash spent on the playing side .

Off the 85 million or how much it was that’s been invested at least half of its been wasted by the board when king was on it and it’s still going on since he left so they are all as bad as each other and we as fans are paying for it one way or another.

As for the OP he’s not got any more right to be on the board of Club 1872 as anyone else and this is basically what it boils down too.
 
BombersBoots said:
This thread is all about shit stirring certain people with an agenda against King and Club 1872
No one on the board or King comes out this smelling of Roses.

Us real fans just want the club run properly with a decent amount of cash spent on the playing side .

Off the 85 million or how much it was that’s been invested at least half of its been wasted by the board when king was on it and it’s still going on since he left so they are all as bad as each other and we as fans are paying for it one way or another.

As for the OP he’s not got any more right to be on the board of Club 1872 as anyone else and this is basically what it boils down too.
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£40m wasted? Get a grip
 
BombersBoots said:
This thread is all about shit stirring certain people with an agenda against King and Club 1872
No one on the board or King comes out this smelling of Roses.

Us real fans just want the club run properly with a decent amount of cash spent on the playing side .

Off the 85 million or how much it was that’s been invested at least half of its been wasted by the board when king was on it and it’s still going on since he left so they are all as bad as each other and we as fans are paying for it one way or another.

As for the OP he’s not got any more right to be on the board of Club 1872 as anyone else and this is basically what it boils down too.
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We were offered two places on the the Club1872 Board and declined the offer
 
High Society said:
£40m wasted? Get a grip
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No you get a grip you total it up add in the money wasted on Pedro and the other shit decisions made.

You’re quite happy to be a happy clapper and support the mess we are in but a good percentage of us aren’t.

I am not going in to sums but we must be 15 million roughly to sports direct alone.

How much did power point Pedro and his legacy cost us probably not far of 15 million Chuck in all the other legal issues and everything else and it won’t be far away.

We now need investment in the team but instead we have 12 million outstanding on a vanity project that’s going to take at least a decade to start making a profit.
 
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Robert Marshall said:
We were offered two places on the the Club1872 Board and declined the offer
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So why didn’t you go on Robert?
Was this before or after you had a court battle with them this is a genuine question and not me being an arse?

Listen you do a fair amount of good things for older people and other stuff so your obviously a decent guy but your getting fed from one side only so your opinion is tainted.

All this stuff just looks childish though and like a woman scorned none of its doing anyone any good as all we all want is the best for the club but there is far to much self interest from the board room all the way down through Club 1872 and Dave King.

None of the current board or past board of members of club 1872 have done themselves any favours and a million tons of mistakes have been made from all sides.

The ones suffering here are us fans who put in thousands every year which in real man’s terms is on a par with the board only thing Is we don’t get all the perks that go along with it.
 
Robert and Mark,

Quite simply: can either of you help us understand what has drove your 180 turn on King?

Nothing seems to be jumping out for many of us, these threads generally don't hit the spot.

King may well have a bit of bombast about his approach, but we don't hear from the Parks in any capacity.

Park Jr's appointment led to a wave of board changes & resignations - I don't know what the guy does or what he brings to the table?
 
Yorkhill_True_Blues said:
In all seriousness in terms of Dave King.

I had a PM from yourself directly about what I had said about Dave King when he arrived at the club. On the basis that I had been told once he gets his claws in he will only want money and in it for himself. You had told me that what I was saying was nonsense and to get my facts straight.

The above isn't to go over old ground. It's merely to say that things are clearly changing within the club/board. The only ones suffering are us, the supporters. Those in power then fall out and point fingers.

Year on year the support hold onto the Board/Managers and players all providing us something to be proud of.

The slating of the board past and present, its just becoming brutal. Everyone is in it for themselves now and trying to protect whatever money they have.

For what it's worth I actually felt that when King left it was always going to be difficult to then see who would fill his boots.

Never ending saga of throwing mud.
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Any comment on this @Robert Marshall?

Would be interested to know why you’ve changed your tune?
 
I'm a Legacy member of Club1872 and have been contributing since the inception of RST.

The legacy contribution is £10 a month. I guess this can be binned at anytime. The issue being, the votes from this contribution are decided by Club1872 but the biggest shareholding is DK. So what he says goes?

I recently bougt personal shares in the last offering. I'll be attending the AGM for the first time this year.

That's how strongly, I feel Rangers have been under-performing.
 
Papasmurf said:
In simplistic terms. Does Dave King want in, or does he want out.

In, as in, being in charge and calling the shots.

Or out, as in, punting his shares.

If it’s the former, why doesn’t he offer to buy one of them out? Take control and be in charge. Clearly they would need to agree.

If it’s the latter, why is he pushing for change? Has he have replacements lined up?

What does he actually want?
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I’m sorta with you on this tbh mate.

A classic ‘shit or get off the pan’ moment.

The in-fighting and politics is boring af. The mere fact that our largest shareholder is at odds with the board (and public about it) is pretty embarassing.

Grown men too. Can’t continue like this unless someone has a very clear plan/proposal.

Tiresome stuff.
 
Totti said:
I’m sorta with you on this tbh mate.

A classic ‘shit or get off the pan’ moment.

The in-fighting and politics is boring af. The mere fact that our largest shareholder is at odds with the board (and public about it) is pretty embarassing.

Grown men too. Can’t continue like this unless someone has a very clear plan/proposal.

Tiresome stuff.
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There is also fans like me who literally have no fucking idea about this stuff and being confused about the massive in-fighting of Rangers fans.

From my brain dead viewpoint, all I see is the extreme jealousy of people wishing they were in power & control of our club and are spitting the dummy out because they are not.

I'm sure I'll be corrected one way or the other, depending what side you are on B-)
 
Alfie shhh! said:
There is also fans like me who literally have no fucking idea about this stuff and being confused about the massive in-fighting of Rangers fans.

From my brain dead viewpoint, all I see is the extreme jealousy of people wishing they were in power & control of our club and are spitting the dummy out because they are not.

I'm sure I'll be corrected one way or the other, depending what side you are on B-)
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You’re not far off mate.

I’m fairly neutral about it all but to be honest - that is the most difficult conundrum. Who is self-serving/protecting and who truly has the club’s best interest at heart?

Many of the board (and DK of course) have credit in the bank given what they have invested. But no-one can be beyond scrutiny.

As for C1872, that’s a whole other matter. They don’t even seem capable of representing their shareholders’ views - which should be their primary aim. Its a chronic state of affairs.

I’m really not sure on the way forward as it appears grown-up conversation is beyond the majority of those involved.

Like I say, tiresome stuff.
 
All of us who piled money into Club 1872 had the best interests of Rangers Football Club at heart and are indeed members of Club 1872.
People who pile money into other establishments have their own reasons for doing so , but are not members of said establishments.
Where we all choose to put our money is always a choice .
 
Totti said:
You’re not far off mate.

I’m fairly neutral about it all but to be honest - that is the most difficult conundrum. Who is self-serving/protecting and who truly has the club’s best interest at heart?

Many of the board (and DK of course) have credit in the bank given what they have invested. But no-one can be beyond scrutiny.

As for C1872, that’s a whole other matter. They don’t even seem capable of representing their shareholders’ views - which should be their primary aim. Its a chronic state of affairs.

I’m really not sure on the way forward as it appears grown-up conversation is beyond the majority of those involved.

Like I say, tiresome stuff.
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Do we really need c1872 to do anything though?

Is it not just as effective as a dormant holder that can stop any Ashley type sale of assets in the future?
 
Alfie shhh! said:
There is also fans like me who literally have no fucking idea about this stuff and being confused about the massive in-fighting of Rangers fans.

From my brain dead viewpoint, all I see is the extreme jealousy of people wishing they were in power & control of our club and are spitting the dummy out because they are not.

I'm sure I'll be corrected one way or the other, depending what side you are on B-)
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I don’t normally agree with you but this case you are absolutely spot on and don’t need corrected.

This starts with King and the board and runs all the way down to the fans half of us couldn’t agree on the colour of shite when we should be Galvanised and then the current incumbents and King wouldn’t be getting away with wasting an utter fortune.
 
Sometimes it starts with the evidence, I trust King more than others. I also like and trust Chris Graham.

However no doubt club1872 is an absolute shambles.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive. The same way I have enormous respect for the board investors however think they need to put in real operational leadership.
 
Robert Marshall said:
I will say one thing about the fans who believe they are Members of Club1872, you are not, the only Members are the ones on the Board of 1872, the rest of you are contributors.
You have no meaning of a vote to change things
99% of the Contributors could cast their opinion on any subject, but if the small group of self-serving Members on the Board decides on something else, or should I say Dave King decides what is to happen, then that's what happens
I think Mark Dingwall has told you the truth about Dave King, listen to him
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What’s the truth about DK mate?

All is see mud slinging (from both sides to be fair) depending on who they prefer.

DK/c1872 have failings. So fücking many of them.
Our board also have failings. Lots of them too.

I want what’s best for our club. I have no idea what that is anymore. However, because of their own historical issues, it doesn’t mean DK or c1872 shouldn’t question the failings of our current board.
 
Pollokprod said:
Surely you would need voted onto the board?


I find that a very strange comment. Which has been denied.
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Who has denied it?

King proposed: "we could restructure ... and increase governance... by agreeing to augment the board".

We certainly found it strange. From our perspective, Dave King shouldn't have been exerting any control over C1872, never mind offering to "augment" the board.

Obviously we rejected the suggestion, we wanted our resolutions put to the Contributors, not to do a back-room deal to disenfranchise them further. None of us were desperate for board positions - hence including in our resolutions a limit on our term to a matter of months and disbarring any of us from standing in the subsequent election we would have held. We just wanted to help correct the destructive path C1872 is on.
 
High Society said:
I wonder if you believe either Dave or The Board?
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Neither and both.

King and Park should have an overall veto on any shinanigans should they vote together.

But a chairman and board that contain neither (at least neither interfering on a day to day basis) should be leading us forward.

It's a shame if neithers ego will allow that to happen.
 
Candyass said:
Another anti DK/C1872 thread from Robert or Mark where I'm left rather unconvinced by the arguments being made.

I don't know how many more times this can happen before the purveyors of this content scrutinise what the Park's are telling them to say.
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No-one tells me what to say.
 
Candyass said:
Robert and Mark,

Quite simply: can either of you help us understand what has drove your 180 turn on King?

Nothing seems to be jumping out for many of us, these threads generally don't hit the spot.

King may well have a bit of bombast about his approach, but we don't hear from the Parks in any capacity.

Park Jr's appointment led to a wave of board changes & resignations - I don't know what the guy does or what he brings to the table?
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Park Jr runs businesses turning over £850m a year.
 
mdingwall said:
Park Jr runs businesses turning over £850m a year.
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So does Pablo Escobar’s son but doesn’t make him ideal for our club. And I don’t really think Rangers board are doing all that well. Anyone who can’t see that we need a clear out from board down is blind. I don’t understand any about the King and Park nonsense, all I know is that they’ve let my team become Scotland’s second team.
 
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