Tillman - he’s the one

There's is no doubt he is a very good player but until he makes his mark against them and truly influences the game there will be question marks. So far it's obvious he has the skill but looks too lackidaisical at times against them.. 3 games to go to prove himself as the real deal.
 
There was a poll in here a while ago about whether you’d pay the 5 million to keep him, I think I said no simply because I felt 5 million was too much for us to pay for a prospect. I’ve since changed my mind, 5 million would be a bargain for the lad. We would at least double our money on him down the line, a top player.
 
EC54 said:
Theirs is no doubt he is a very good player but until he makes his mark against them and truly influences the game there will be question marks. So far it's obvious he has the skill but looks too lackidaisical at times against them.. 3 games to go to prove himself as the real deal.
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I don’t think he was fit last time out and he had the worst possible midfield around him. Worth remembering his age too, he really is a player who still has a lot of growth to come.

Also, most of our players could do with upping their form against that mob, including the forum favs. I think Tillman will continue to develop and he’ll be a right good player. He’ll either make a great contribution or we’ll sell him for a hefty fee.
 
I think Tillman can be summed up as - "full of skill, but doesn't work hard enough".

No doubt someone will bring up his stats for pressing and winning the ball back, but if he doesn't win it first time his motivation to get back and help has to be questioned. When have you ever seen him busting a gut to get to a ball?

All the skill in the world means nothing without applying the required effort.

I'd probably keep him, but I'd make it clear he needs to play his part in the team.
 
archimedes said:
I think Tillman can be summed up as - "full of skill, but doesn't work hard enough".

No doubt someone will bring up his stats for pressing and winning the ball back, but if he doesn't win it first time his motivation to get back and help has to be questioned. When have you ever seen him busting a gut to get to a ball?

All the skill in the world means nothing without applying the required effort.

I'd probably keep him, but I'd make it clear he needs to play his part in the team.
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Ronald De Boer was a lazy bastard at times, didn't stop him from having a stellar career, your post is coming across very 1970s.
 
archimedes said:
It's a bit of a stretch to compare Tillman with Ronald DeBoer, don't you think?
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I'm not comparing, I'm giving an example of a player who could be construed as lazy and then could turn it on in a flash, mentioning another person doesn't always mean a comparison.
 
Am I the only one who came into this thread expecting another bad attempt at a song based on the Robbie william’s song? If there’s somebody Tillman’s the one No? Ok I’ll go sorry about that.

I agree but need to do what we can to keep him he’s a goal scorer and will help win us points over the season with his goals which will be hard to replace
 
billywizz said:
I'm not comparing, I'm giving an example of a player who could be construed as lazy and then could turn it on in a flash, mentioning another person doesn't always mean a comparison.
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There is however a big difference in the contribution to a team between a Dutch national player who has played for Ajax and Barcelona and won the Champion's League and La Liga, and a 20 year old who's first team appearances you could count on one hand before he arrived at Ibrox.
I think one has a bit more credit in the bank in terms of his 'lazy' allowance.
 
EC54 said:
There's is no doubt he is a very good player but until he makes his mark against them and truly influences the game there will be question marks. So far it's obvious he has the skill but looks too lackidaisical at times against them.. 3 games to go to prove himself as the real deal.
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Agreed, put in mom performances against the scum next few games raises his profile regardless what he wants to do, if he wants to stay great get him signed.... if he wants no part of this shit league then fair enough .....
 
archimedes said:
There is however a big difference in the contribution to a team between a Dutch national player who has played for Ajax and Barcelona and won the Champion's League and La Liga, and a 20 year old who's first team appearances you could count on one hand before he arrived at Ibrox.
I think one has a bit more credit in the bank in terms of his 'lazy' allowance.
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That's just misty-eyed nonsense, so De Boer would be allowed to put in lazy performances because of "credit" but a guy on the same pitch as him at 20 wouldn't, you don;t see the flaw in that.

Surely workrate is a fundamental, something again, even as a young guy De Boer never had a great deal, I watched De Boer fail to chase a hopeless ball at Ibrox in a nothing game, and he took pelters for it, he rightly didn't chase it, Tillman is very much made of the same ilk.
 
Hates being compared to Aribo, but he is like Aribo in the sense our creativity drops when he doesn't play. Don't think he is as good as many make out, but essential in a league like ours.
 
blue genes said:
IMO he’s a brilliant player, but now he’s had a full season of first team football I fear that he will want to play in a better league, & that more than anything will stop us getting him.
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Think the rumour was that he doesn't like Scotland/ glasgow. Nothing to do with the league
 
billywizz said:
That's just misty-eyed nonsense, so De Boer would be allowed to put in lazy performances because of "credit" but a guy on the same pitch as him at 20 wouldn't, you don;t see the flaw in that.

Surely workrate is a fundamental, something again, even as a young guy De Boer never had a great deal, I watched De Boer fail to chase a hopeless ball at Ibrox in a nothing game, and he took pelters for it, he rightly didn't chase it, Tillman is very much made of the same ilk.
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I'm saying that DeBoer was a proven quality player who had won major honours at huge clubs, and the coaches of those clubs obviously considered his contribution to the team important enough to include him (along with SAF wanting to sign him for Man Utd when he came to us).

Tillman, unfortunately for him, doesn't have that pedigree, so can't afford to display a lack of effort if he wants to make a name for himself in the game.

Are you saying that it doesn't matter if he's lazy, as long as he's skillful?
 
archimedes said:
I'm saying that DeBoer was a proven quality player who had won major honours at huge clubs, and the coaches of those clubs obviously considered his contribution to the team important enough to include him (along with SAF wanting to sign him for Man Utd when he came to us).

Tillman, unfortunately for him, doesn't have that pedigree, so can't afford to display a lack of effort if he wants to make a name for himself in the game.

Are you saying that it doesn't matter if he's lazy, as long as he's skillful?
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On the last point, show me where I've even intimated it, to flip it back, what I said was, De Boer was a lazy player, even at 20, and taking your point on board about managers thinking he was important enough to include, absolutely , because he was top player, you also had guys like Davids, Seedorf, Witscghe who all had legs and could put in the donkey work and leave a guy like De Boer to work some magic, not every footballer has to go hell for leather, that's a Scottish thing, and fundamentally a reason why our game is utter rancid.
 
archimedes said:
I think Tillman can be summed up as - "full of skill, but doesn't work hard enough".

No doubt someone will bring up his stats for pressing and winning the ball back, but if he doesn't win it first time his motivation to get back and help has to be questioned. When have you ever seen him busting a gut to get to a ball?

All the skill in the world means nothing without applying the required effort.

I'd probably keep him, but I'd make it clear he needs to play his part in the team.
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You haven't been watching if you haven't seen him tracking back, chasing down a player and winning the ball, on numerous occasions.

That's without mentioning his ability to win it high up the pitch, as you allude to.

Works very hard for the team.
 
EC54 said:
There's is no doubt he is a very good player but until he makes his mark against them and truly influences the game there will be question marks. So far it's obvious he has the skill but looks too lackidaisical at times against them.. 3 games to go to prove himself as the real deal.
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Yes, totally agree.
 
Bundy Bear said:
Tillman, 20 year old, first full season of playing senior football and has prob already trumped or got close to Kents best season, stats wise, and we paid £7million for Kent. And I'm a fan of Kents.

If he wants to stay, pay the money.
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Kent best season is 25 G/A
Tillman has 15 G/A this season

So only 60% of the way there but okay :)
 
archimedes said:
I think Tillman can be summed up as - "full of skill, but doesn't work hard enough".

No doubt someone will bring up his stats for pressing and winning the ball back, but if he doesn't win it first time his motivation to get back and help has to be questioned. When have you ever seen him busting a gut to get to a ball?

All the skill in the world means nothing without applying the required effort.

I'd probably keep him, but I'd make it clear he needs to play his part in the team.
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So what you're saying is someone will bring up facts to prove what you're saying is wrong, but you won't change your opinion regardless.

To answer your question - yesterday. He chased down and won the ball back from the Motherwell player on the right wing, even when the game was dead and buried at 4-2.
 
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archimedes said:
I think Tillman can be summed up as - "full of skill, but doesn't work hard enough".

No doubt someone will bring up his stats for pressing and winning the ball back, but if he doesn't win it first time his motivation to get back and help has to be questioned. When have you ever seen him busting a gut to get to a ball?

All the skill in the world means nothing without applying the required effort.

I'd probably keep him, but I'd make it clear he needs to play his part in the team.
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Many times, especially under Beale.
 
EC54 said:
There's is no doubt he is a very good player but until he makes his mark against them and truly influences the game there will be question marks. So far it's obvious he has the skill but looks too lackadaisical at times against them.. 3 games to go to prove himself as the real deal.
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Agreed to the max.

The moments that make Tillman look superb are just those. Moments.

Id like to see him have a lot more of those across the span of a game when hes really influencing how Rangers play and not just showcasing his undoubted individual ability.

I dont mind the laidback style or him not defending like the Tasmanian Devil but he does need to become more of a goto guy in terms of helping the Team overall and Im not so sure he is that type of player.

Comparatively, Cantwell is making things happen for everyone around him when hes on the ball. Hes starting and engineering moves, hes tracking back and looking for the ball constantly, he wants to be front and centre of the action at all times. Id like to see more of that from Tillman.

Ironically with Cantwell coming in its less likely we can/will sign Tillman but of the two Id take Cantwell anyway,
 
archimedes said:
I think Tillman can be summed up as - "full of skill, but doesn't work hard enough".

No doubt someone will bring up his stats for pressing and winning the ball back, but if he doesn't win it first time his motivation to get back and help has to be questioned. When have you ever seen him busting a gut to get to a ball?

All the skill in the world means nothing without applying the required effort.

I'd probably keep him, but I'd make it clear he needs to play his part in the team.
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He does this a lot. A good couple of times yesterday as well.
 
mathers1 said:
Tillman won’t be playing in this footballing backwater when he’s 26, there’s a difference.
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Depends what you mean. In football terms, playing every week for Rangers is miles better than say, being in the PL but never actually getting any game time like Aribo.
 
Not sure what the terms are for buying him, but we need to push out the boat. Lots of decent European clubs will be looking at him. Bundesliga, Dutch, French league etc.
 
ForGodForCountryForever said:
Agreed to the max.

The moments that make Tillman look superb are just those. Moments.

Id like to see him have a lot more of those across the span of a game when hes really influencing how Rangers play and not just showcasing his undoubted individual ability.

I dont mind the laidback style or him not defending like the Tasmanian Devil but he does need to become more of a goto guy in terms of helping the Team overall and Im not so sure he is that type of player.

Comparatively, Cantwell is making things happen for everyone around him when hes on the ball. Hes starting and engineering moves, hes tracking back and looking for the ball constantly, he wants to be front and centre of the action at all times. Id like to see more of that from Tillman.

Ironically with Cantwell coming in its less likely we can/will sign Tillman but of the two Id take Cantwell anyway,
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I’m not sure I agree with you with regards to his effort/helping the team. He wins the ball back constantly. Indeed we won a CL qualifier for exactly that reason. However, your post indicates a massive issue we have in this country that is holding us back - we value the wrong football traits. Cantwell is a very good player, however he’s 25. He scored his first goal yesterday in 2 years. We have a guy who is 20 and is about to hit double figures in his first season from MIDFIELD. Our issue isn’t endeavour, it’s lack of quality.
 
The Director said:
Depends what you mean. In football terms, playing every week for Rangers is miles better than say, being in the PL but never actually getting any game time like Aribo.
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In a comparison between Tillman & Kent, I’m not sure why you’ve brought up Aribo?

Tillman is being more productive in a poor league (at 20) than Kent is in his prime at 26.
 
UncertainSmile said:
Is this rumour about him not liking Scotland at all credible?
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File it under "sh1te a lurker would find funny to chime in with to watch the panic".

Same about the whole "doesn't matter how good we are so long as we are 1 point behind them" patter. If I read them writing that stuff I'd be laughing my tits off. Nothing reads better than panic and fans clamouring for change (when - looking at the progress over the last 5 years - the club is clearly on the right track).

They'll be hoping we start getting idiots bad mouthing him at games, slating him online so that it eventually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and he doesn't want to stay. Rest assured, the scum fans don't want Tillman to sign for us and will do anything they can to undermine him. This rumour is strate out of the WUM playbook
 
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