Celtic to be sued in the US over abuse(The Sun)

jigster said:
i'm kinda leaning this way , the only thing is they have always pleaded the separate entity line if they start settling out of court its an admission of guilt in which they have previously said they aren't connected
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The whole point about settling out of court is that it is on a case by case basis and is certainly not an admission of guilt. It is completely without admission of liability - that is the whole point and part of any settlement.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
McCafferty trial supposedly due to start tomorrow. Daly, apparently, doing a new documentary that will 'demolish' the 'separate entity' nonsense about the club/boys club. US lawyers in touch with victims regarding a Court case in USA. Daily Record, reportedly, have a copy of a NDA signed by Celtic and one of the victims but, for whatever reason, have yet to publish.

I think that's about where we are at the moment.
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USA litigation is costly, slow, time consuming, disclosure-based & comprises never-ending Motions (applications for Orders) & appeals. US Courts will often reserve jurisdiction challenges until final judgement!
Vicarious liability may ensnare CFC regardless of their feeble 'different entity' arguments.
Lastly, while CFC's Public Liability cover will undoubtedly fund investigation & defence of claims in the UK, it's entirely possible that USA is not in their Geographic Limits. Oh dear...
 
Brant Hurley said:
USA litigation is costly, slow, time consuming, disclosure-based & comprises never-ending Motions (applications for Orders) & appeals. US Courts will often reserve jurisdiction challenges until final judgement!
Vicarious liability may ensnare CFC regardless of their feeble 'different entity' arguments.
Lastly, while CFC's Public Liability cover will undoubtedly fund investigation & defence of claims in the UK, it's entirely possible that USA is not in their Geographic Limits. Oh dear...
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Furthermore the Limits on any those Policies will be dwarfed by the Cost of the litigation. I read a story last week about a woman who successfully sued Hilton in a America as their Handyman installed Cameras in her Bathroom and then tried to bribe her with the footage. Vicariously liability attached, Damages were $100M. Imagine what they award for Victims that were Children.
 
Cooper_11 said:
Did the punishment for Penn State not set a precedent for vile acts committed by sports clubs against minors ? Let’s not assume that St Pats (aka Separate Entity FC) will receive only a paultry financial punishment and walk away from this.
I’m of the other mindset where I think the damage, both financially and in terms of global reputation, will be severe. And so it should be.
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It's the obal reputation part that will hurt more. What company or brand will want to be associated with the systematic abuse of minors. This is what they will fear most.
 
BrownBrogues said:
Furthermore the Limits on any those Policies will be dwarfed by the Cost of the litigation. I read a story last week about a woman who successfully sued Hilton in a America as their Handyman installed Cameras in her Bathroom and then tried to bribe her with the footage. Vicariously liability attached, Damages were $100M. Imagine what they award for Victims that were Children.
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Public liability won't touch abuse of this nature, nor will the insurances or the insurers cover such costs.
 
BrownBrogues said:
Furthermore the Limits on any those Policies will be dwarfed by the Cost of the litigation. I read a story last week about a woman who successfully sued Hilton in a America as their Handyman installed Cameras in her Bathroom and then tried to bribe her with the footage. Vicariously liability attached, Damages were $100M. Imagine what they award for Victims that were Children.
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Good point. US issued Policies are 'limits including costs', which quickly exhausts sums-insured. Sometimes before the damages are awarded & payable.
UK PL covers are typically limits plus costs, so sums insured are only eroded by Indemnity (damages payments & TP costs.)
You're also correct that damages awards in the USA are likely to be HUGE.
 
Geoff Hurst said:
The parents of this boy who accepted the hush money from the beggars are deranged.You would surely want to kick the shit out of the monster who abused their boy and then start on the sick bastards offering the deal
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If they're still about, they should be strun, eh locked up as well. Deranged.
 
dentalbear said:
Not if it can be shown that the policy holder(s) knew of said abuse I'd imagine.
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Correct. Prior knowledge or connivance by the 'controlling mind' (typically a Board member) would vitiate cover. But I don't think that's the case here. Retrospective knowledge doesn't vitiate cover.
 
Brant Hurley said:
I'll bet my 44 years industry experience against your guess, brother. This isn't about morality, it's contractual obligations to indemnity legal liabilities.
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It's not a guess. More of an assumption that historic child abuse will not be covered. If they had such insurances in the 70s/80s they would be in no way as stringent as present day. Penn state were directly culpable and no insurance was paid out to my knowledge.
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
Sadly I can't see it going beyond a few out of court settlements. They're just too well protected.
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They might well be in Scotland mate but over in the U.S. that Catholic Church and special friends can't manage to even protect themselves. If it gets taken up over there it could be lights out for them.

(CNN)Since the 1980s, the Catholic Church in the United States and its insurance companies have paid out more than $3.8 billion in lawsuits and claims involving allegations of clerical sexual abuse, according to a monitoring group.
BishopAccountability, a non-profit that tracks allegations of abuse in the Catholic Church, says the payouts involved cases filed by more than 8,600 survivors who were allegedly sexually abused by an undisclosed number of clergy since the 1950s.
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Ayrshire Bear said:
Imagine they got relegated to the 3rd division

actually sit and imagine it for a minute
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In my opinion AB, the very least they should get is that and have had to pay out that much compensation that there's next to no chance they would come straight back up. They're vile. Subhuman. I want them gone, I want them dead.

I wouldn't have thought that some time ago for many reasons, but they truly are a disgusting lot. They commit their sordid acts, cover them up, still show no contrition, yet they and their supporters (players/media guys, etc) still feel that they can preach to us and everyone else about integrity and other garbage on a daily basis. They clearly STILL don't get it.

Before any football punishment is handed out, the most important thing by far in all of this mess is that the victims get justice. For many, that may simply mean an acknowledgement of what happened to them, an admission of guilt from CFC and the people responsible being hammered for their part in it, including the many people involved in the cover ups. Some may want to punish them financially, some may want both. Whatever THEY want, I hope they all get it. Football is secondary. There isn't a worse crime than this.
 
Brant Hurley said:
USA litigation is costly, slow, time consuming, disclosure-based & comprises never-ending Motions (applications for Orders) & appeals. US Courts will often reserve jurisdiction challenges until final judgement!
Vicarious liability may ensnare CFC regardless of their feeble 'different entity' arguments.
Lastly, while CFC's Public Liability cover will undoubtedly fund investigation & defence of claims in the UK, it's entirely possible that USA is not in their Geographic Limits. Oh dear...
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I seem to recall that the Public Liability cover the company I used to be a director of, had a USA exclusion in its normal T&C's. You had to pay additional premium to to get USA cover.

As it was a shipping company which shipped quite a lot to the USA, we had to pay additional premiums for USA cover. Would St Pats ever have foreseen the need for USA cover at whatever point they took out their PL cover?
 
When the Scottish government can set up an enquiry into historic child abuse in the country and completely ignore what happened at the cesspit I'm afraid the victims will never get justice for the crime perpetrated against them,A peadophile ring that has been overlooked by the football and civil authorities and msm now that is Scotlands shame.
 
Is anybody able to give a cast iron position regarding a crime being committed and a trial verses an out of court payment and no trial?
 
They are in serious trouble over this.There is now a substantial amount of cases pending against them and the Scottish lawyers involved have met with their American counterparts to discuss the way forward. Brady and Macari to name but two are already on the lawyers list of potential witnesses to the abuse. Furthermore the SFA are looking at the potential of charging Celt*c with bringing the game into disrepute as all and sundry at Parkhead knew what was going on and failed to protect the kids.

There are various films and news articles from the past which quite clearly state the boys club were an integral part of the set up at Parkhead.

The media and the politicians are very reluctant to make official comment on these cases as they don’t want to be seen to be putting live ongoing cases in jeopardy.

There is a juggernaut heading their way, and no amount of denial or deflection will stop it.
 
Brant Hurley said:
Correct. Prior knowledge or connivance by the 'controlling mind' (typically a Board member) would vitiate cover. But I don't think that's the case here. Retrospective knowledge doesn't vitiate cover.
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even when you have re-employed an offender when taking out said cover? Or knowing there is a problem in areas of the overall organisation when taking out said cover?
 
Brant Hurley said:
Good point. US issued Policies are 'limits including costs', which quickly exhausts sums-insured. Sometimes before the damages are awarded & payable.
UK PL covers are typically limits plus costs, so sums insured are only eroded by Indemnity (damages payments & TP costs.)
You're also correct that damages awards in the USA are likely to be HUGE.
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I have a funny feeling we work in the same industry.
 
Jim Smith said:
They are in serious trouble over this.There is now a substantial amount of cases pending against them and the Scottish lawyers involved have met with their American counterparts to discuss the way forward. Brady and Macari to name but two are already on the lawyers list of potential witnesses to the abuse. Furthermore the SFA are looking at the potential of charging Celt*c with bringing the game into disrepute as all and sundry at Parkhead knew what was going on and failed to protect the kids.

There are various films and news articles from the past which quite clearly state the boys club were an integral part of the set up at Parkhead.

The media and the politicians are very reluctant to make official comment on these cases as they don’t want to be seen to be putting live ongoing cases in jeopardy.

There is a juggernaut heading their way, and no amount of denial or deflection will stop it.
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Any proof?
 
Gaz030191 said:
Something about that sentence made my stomach sink.

Think about it. There have been THAT MANY that we can't keep track, and still smoke, mirrors and silence. Disgusting.
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The truly horrible and frightening thought is that these ones being convicted just now, will almost definitely not be the first lot to have committed these crimes there.
 
Jim Smith said:
They are in serious trouble over this.There is now a substantial amount of cases pending against them and the Scottish lawyers involved have met with their American counterparts to discuss the way forward. Brady and Macari to name but two are already on the lawyers list of potential witnesses to the abuse. Furthermore the SFA are looking at the potential of charging Celt*c with bringing the game into disrepute as all and sundry at Parkhead knew what was going on and failed to protect the kids.

There are various films and news articles from the past which quite clearly state the boys club were an integral part of the set up at Parkhead.

The media and the politicians are very reluctant to make official comment on these cases as they don’t want to be seen to be putting live ongoing cases in jeopardy.

There is a juggernaut heading their way, and no amount of denial or deflection will stop it.
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I would be surprised if the SFA charged them mate.
 
Jim Smith said:
They are in serious trouble over this.There is now a substantial amount of cases pending against them and the Scottish lawyers involved have met with their American counterparts to discuss the way forward. Brady and Macari to name but two are already on the lawyers list of potential witnesses to the abuse. Furthermore the SFA are looking at the potential of charging Celt*c with bringing the game into disrepute as all and sundry at Parkhead knew what was going on and failed to protect the kids.

There are various films and news articles from the past which quite clearly state the boys club were an integral part of the set up at Parkhead.

The media and the politicians are very reluctant to make official comment on these cases as they don’t want to be seen to be putting live ongoing cases in jeopardy.

There is a juggernaut heading their way, and no amount of denial or deflection will stop it.
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I would love this to be true but they always seem to get away with peddling the "separate entity" pish. Anyone who was around in the 70s and 80s knows this is rubbish as the press were forever printing stories about how successful the Boy's Club was in bringing through talent to "the big team" and they'd never be saying that if the connection wasn't there. Add in their team photos being taken on the pitch at the piggery and the likes of Stein, McNeill and Burns appearing at awards presentations and it's obvious the link was there.

But they have friends in high places and they seem to be protecting them even now. Time will tell, but I fear they will get off lightly as they always do. Seems the Scottish press, SFA and the rest care more about their "good name" than the well-being of the victims.
 
Jim Smith said:
They are in serious trouble over this.There is now a substantial amount of cases pending against them and the Scottish lawyers involved have met with their American counterparts to discuss the way forward. Brady and Macari to name but two are already on the lawyers list of potential witnesses to the abuse. Furthermore the SFA are looking at the potential of charging Celt*c with bringing the game into disrepute as all and sundry at Parkhead knew what was going on and failed to protect the kids.

There are various films and news articles from the past which quite clearly state the boys club were an integral part of the set up at Parkhead.

The media and the politicians are very reluctant to make official comment on these cases as they don’t want to be seen to be putting live ongoing cases in jeopardy.

There is a juggernaut heading their way, and no amount of denial or deflection will stop it.
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I don't believe that for a minute. The SFA will be frantically praying (and rubbing their rosary beads) that this all just 'goes away'. It won't. Until they are forced to, they won't even be considering any action against the Dhims. It won't even be on the Agenda right now.
 
Jim Smith said:
They are in serious trouble over this.There is now a substantial amount of cases pending against them and the Scottish lawyers involved have met with their American counterparts to discuss the way forward. Brady and Macari to name but two are already on the lawyers list of potential witnesses to the abuse. Furthermore the SFA are looking at the potential of charging Celt*c with bringing the game into disrepute as all and sundry at Parkhead knew what was going on and failed to protect the kids.

There are various films and news articles from the past which quite clearly state the boys club were an integral part of the set up at Parkhead.

The media and the politicians are very reluctant to make official comment on these cases as they don’t want to be seen to be putting live ongoing cases in jeopardy.

There is a juggernaut heading their way, and no amount of denial or deflection will stop it.
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Obviously, I only believe that when it actually happens.

US lawyers you say? I'll get the popcorn, for this will sure get messy for our "nheighbours" ...
 
In my opinion when the truth eventually gets out they should be wound up and the money shared by their victims. They should never be allowed anywhere near Scottish football again. To me those who cover up child sexual abuse are just as bad as the perpetrators, those who carry out these depraved act are sick but those who cover it up have made a conscious decision to do so. Their is no place for these people in society.
Lets hope the flood gates open tomorrow.
#JUSTICE FOR CELTICS VICTIMS
 
I'll be surprised if anything even comes of this.

It seems to just roll on for years without ever blowing up like it should.
 
kclarkhall said:
I'll be surprised if anything even comes of this.

It seems to just roll on for years without ever blowing up like it should.
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I would be very surprised if nothing happens.

There is now traction with victims getting legal help and court cases for the paedos.

Victims will soon be getting compensation claims heard in court.

USA lawyers smell a giant carcass that can be fed on for years.

Just wait for the summer fire sale and lack of buys.
 
I highly doubt the SFA will be preparing to charge them with anything. In fact they were probably complicit in a lot of it (Jack McGinn).
 
ao2 said:
I would love this to be true but they always seem to get away with peddling the "separate entity" pish. Anyone who was around in the 70s and 80s knows this is rubbish as the press were forever printing stories about how successful the Boy's Club was in bringing through talent to "the big team" and they'd never be saying that if the connection wasn't there. Add in their team photos being taken on the pitch at the piggery and the likes of Stein, McNeill and Burns appearing at awards presentations and it's obvious the link was there.

But they have friends in high places and they seem to be protecting them even now. Time will tell, but I fear they will get off lightly as they always do. Seems the Scottish press, SFA and the rest care more about their "good name" than the well-being of the victims.
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Their own club newspaper blows their theories out the window that their boys club was a separate entity never mind national newspapers
 
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