Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

There have been a couple of discussions recently about this quote and citation. I believe it to be falsely attributed to Billy McNeill and no-one as yet has come up with evidence it was ever printed in the Evening Times.

An identical quote - it was an open secret - came from a relative of one of the CBC victims and was printed in the Daily Record in 1996. The Record at that time was delving into the CBC scandal (as was Scotland on Sunday).

Part 1 of the Scotland on Sunday article ...

The Other Side Of Paradise - 18 Aug 96
Scotland on Sunday
Celtic Boys' Club appealed to the dreams of a generation of football hopefuls, but they have only made the tabloids in a seamy tale of manipulation and abuse.

It all begins in a shrine, the walls adorned with artefacts and relics, all carefully arranged and devoutly displayed, past which the faithful shuffled and nourished their own dreams of immortality. Here, paradise seemed tangible, just a short trip away. But the changing faces who gaped in awe at this display of devotion were gullible young boys who worshipped a team.

They stared at the display of shirts and photographs, testimonials and autographs and believed the man who told them that they could look down from the window, across the city to the football ground in the East End and take all that lay before them.

Jim Torbett was 20 when he set up Celtic Boys' Club in 1966, seeking permission from the then manager Jock Stein to use the team's name. He was only a few years older than the lads who trooped through his living room. Boys who left believing, as he did, in dreams, certain that they were special, marked out for fame. Now 30 years on, those dreams have become nightmares for some, grown men marked forever by the shy but enthusiastic man who took them to the heights and then the depths.

John McCluskey is, in the unimpeachable judgment of former Celtic star Charlie Nicholas, the best young player he ever saw. Last week, McCluskey - who has fought drink, addiction and his own demons - was sitting in an upmarket Glasgow hotel, sipping cappuccino and waiting to make a statement to police that Torbett had sexually assaulted him. He had been so badly affected by the Dunblane massacre, he said, that he felt he had to make a stand.

Just two days before, the Daily Record had spread across five pages allegations that the boys' club founder had abused him. His allegation was supported by Ally Brazil, the former Ipswich and Spurs striker, another graduate of the Celtic academy, who claimed that Torbett kissed and fondled him when he was only 14.

Within hours of the story hitting the streets, and the newspaper setting up its abuse hotline, dozens of calls had come in and another man - Frank Cairney, the man who had been brought in by Jock Stein to get rid of the smears and innuendoes which for years had hung around the boys' club - was also being named as an abuser.

Whispers that something was not quite right with Celtic Boys' Club had been around since its inception. Some boys passed through the ranks unscathed, ducking slaps on the bum and over-enthusiastic spongings when they lay injured on the pitch. But others are alleged to have suffered at the hands of a man who abused his position in pursuit of paedophile perversions.

It seemed some of the weaker boys, those with less skill, less certain of a place on the first team, those with less parental guidance, became easy prey. They would be enticed back to Torbett's house with promises of meals and ice cream and sometimes less innocent pursuits would follow.

When Fergus McCann finally arrived in the halo of television lights at Parkhead in 1994 he knew that he faced a formidable task: rebuilding a stadium, a team and the belief of a support which had seen years of failed promises and dismal performance. What he did not expect - by way of an anonymous letter sent to him almost as soon as he was through the door - was a disturbing report of years of abuse at the boys' club.

Officially, the club was entirely separate from Celtic but McCann appreciated that it was inextricably bound to Parkhead in the minds of the public, and indeed in the hearts of some of the players and former players - like Peter Grant, Paul McStay and Tommy Burns - who had graduated from it to the big time of professional football.

McCann quickly went about trying to establish the truth, or not, of the accusations. He called in Jim Torbett and asked him to meet Celtic's lawyers and confirm or deny, in an affidavit which could be passed to the police, the accusations. Torbett repeatedly refused. He asked Ally Brazil and John McCluskey to make their allegations formal. Brazil refused at that stage. McCluskey agreed, but only if his statement was not passed to the police.

Ironically, McCann was playing out, more than three years on, a sad little tableau which had occurred at Parkhead under the old regime, ruled over by the Kelly and White families. In 1991 the boys' club had been to Kearney, New Jersey - an annual tour to the Irish part of the state with players staying at the homes of Catholic families.

One boy, no longer at Celtic but now a professional player in Scotland, had alleged to his hosts and to his own family that he had been assaulted by the team's general manager, Frank Cairney. The boy's father took him to Celtic Park to have it out with Liam Brady who was then only months in the job as team manager. The club's chief scout John Kelman was also present.

It was Brady's first serious and most affecting problem in a troubled time at Parkhead which did not last long. He listened to the boy, believed him, and insisted to the board that Cairney had to be removed, not only from the boys' club but from any association with the main football club. So, overnight, the man who was used to having his run of the place and the ear of the management, was cast out.

It was agreed, by Brady, the boy and his parents and the then Celtic board, that the police would not be informed. The young player was assured that the alleged incident would have no effect on his future career at the club. However, signed statements were taken by Celtic's lawyers from the four adults who had been on the New Jersey trip.

All were sworn to silence. Cairney was now away from the football club and its nursery - business commitments was the given reason - but Jim Torbett was back playing a major role, first as a fund-raiser then back with the boys' club. Torbett had maintained his connections with Celtic. Pre-McCann board member Kevin Kelly, still honorary president of the boys' club, is a fellow director of Torbett's company The Trophy Centre, and current board member Jack McGinn is an employee.

It is not clear why a man widely regarded as a child abuser was allowed back into a position of responsibility at the boys' club. Torbett had been kicked out in 1976 after being confronted by the committee and, according to Frank Cairney's account of the meeting, had broken down in tears and confessed.
 
There have been a couple of discussions recently about this quote and citation. I believe it to be falsely attributed to Billy McNeill and no-one as yet has come up with evidence it was ever printed in the Evening Times.

An identical quote - it was an open secret - came from a relative of one of the CBC victims and was printed in the Daily Record in 1996. The Record at that time was delving into the CBC scandal (as was Scotland on Sunday).

Part 2 of the Scotland on Sunday article ...
He was then summoned to a meeting with Jock Stein, at the end of which the big man physically kicked him out of the door. And just to ensure that the boys' club stayed clean, the legendary Celtic manager brought in another man Hugh Birt, as chairman of its committee.

Birt claims he was concerned about the behaviour of both Cairney and Torbett - who wheedled his way back in after Stein's death - and raised the matter with the club. Before he knew it Birt was asked to resign. When he stood his ground and refused, he says, Celtic withdrew his ticket to the directors' box and he had no option but to get out.

In spite of all these troubles, the boys' club, from humble beginnings in a hall in Maryhill, had become a great success and was now seen as a crucial feeder of players for the senior club. It used Celtic's training ground at Barrowfield for coaching and matches and became one of the country's most successful nurseries: its more famous graduates include current manager Tommy Burns, George McCluskey, Roy Aitken, Charlie Nicholas, Paul McStay, and of the present side Peter Grant and Simon Donnelly.

But although the boys' club was hugely successful, rumours still continued to surround it. Former players began to talk to the press, although none would go on record or make a formal complaint to the police. The New Jersey incident in 1991 was successfully managed by the club and it seemed that nothing tangible would ever be proved. And then, in 1994, the new regime swept into Celtic Park and the rumours flared up again. This time, the chairman was determined that nothing should be kicked under the carpet.

As McCann's investigation got under way, a lone Celtic fan Gerry McSherry, who resented the arrival of the new board, appeared on a radio programme to question the transfer of a young player. Within days he had received a number of calls suggesting untoward behaviour in the boys club. After months of investigation, McSherry began touting what he called the Paedo Files round various newspapers and television companies and claims now to be under contract to the Record.

Last week, as the story developed from allegations against Torbett - who was suspended from the boys' club six days ago - to claims that Cairney fondled boys as they sat in the front seat of his car, many men with long associations with the club began to grow uneasy. Former players backed Big Frank whom they knew as a "father figure" and Burns rushed out to Cairney's terraced home in Viewpark, Lanarkshire, after receiving a call from the man he considers a close friend. Leaving his house, Burns was reported to have said: "He [Cairney] has the whole of my backing and that of Celtic Football Club to a man."

The following morning Burns must have been wishing he had bitten his tongue. Incandescent at his manager's assumption that the club would back Cairney, McCann issued a statement. "While I sympathise with Tommy Burns' personal position as a friend of Mr Cairney, the club cannot condone or defend or take sides in a matter which involves a criminal complaint," he said.

Burns himself claimed that he had been misquoted and what he had in fact said was: "He has my backing and I'm sure he will have the backing of several members of the first team who played for Frank at under-16 level."

Meanwhile, the allegations against Torbett went unchallenged. After hiding out at the east end home of William and Andrew Gilbert - two young men who had played for the boys' club - he is said to have left the country. Yesterday, their mother Susan said that Torbett was a close family friend - they sometimes travelled abroad with him and the boys' club - and that the allegations made against him were rubbish.

DCI John Boyd at London Road Police Station, who has four officers investigating the allegations, said that his team had been taking calls from a number of people who had not gone through the Daily Record. He added that the inquiry was at an early stage and that no arrests were imminent.

At Celtic Park, the management is trying to keep its head down and stop the scandal interfering with play. Footballers like Peter Grant and Tosh McKinlay - who came through the boys' club route - have nothing to say on the record. And the boy who made the complaint against Cairney? He's playing his cards close to his chest. The chants from the terraces and jibes from his opponents would no doubt be too much to take.
 
There have been a couple of discussions recently about this quote and citation. I believe it to be falsely attributed to Billy McNeill and no-one as yet has come up with evidence it was ever printed in the Evening Times.

An identical quote - it was an open secret - came from a relative of one of the CBC victims and was printed in the Daily Record in 1996. The Record at that time was delving into the CBC scandal (as was Scotland on Sunday).

The Daily Record article ...
Shameful Airport Pact Haunts Us After 5 Years - 19 Aug 96
Daily Record
The secret deal which protected a sex pervert for five years was struck in an American airport cafe. Hours before Celtic Boys' Club were due to fly home, five men sat around a table at bustling Boston airport. There they sealed the shameful pact that has haunted them since.

Frank Cairney - the man who WAS Celtic Boys' Club - agreed to resign and a dingy chapter in Celtic's history was born. A young player had claimed he had been touched sexually by Cairney while in bed. Now the other four men who were part of that airport deal, former chairman Jim McNally and officials Bill Gilfillan, John Gallacher and Willie Hampson, have decided to speak about it for the first time.

McNally, speaking for all four, said: "Apart from sworn statements to Celtic and the police, none of us has ever spoken about what happened. It has been painful and has taken a great toll on all of our lives. Players had been staying in the homes of ex-pat Celtic fans in Kearney, New Jersey, in 1991 for a showpiece tournament. Two were living with exiled Scot, Pat Brannigan.

Pat Brannigan told me that a boy had made a serious allegation against Frank Cairney. I interviewed the boy after Pat Brannigan came for me very early in the morning. Pat and his wife Diane were there. I asked a second boy who was also staying at Pat's house to leave the room.

The first lad was very distraught. He repeated the allegation of a sexual nature against Frank Cairney. He said it happened in Pat Brannigan's basement where the boys were sleeping. Frank had been staying at a hotel nearby. But it wouldn't have been unusual for him to be in the house because he always went around to where the boys were staying, to make sure they were all right.

Initially I found the whole thing hard to believe. I had never experienced anything like that before in my life. I honestly thought and hoped it was horseplay that had got out of hand a wee bit. Immediately I talked to the other three officials. I told them what had happened. We were visiting a theme park that day and I got the senior players together and told them what had happened.

They already knew. I asked them if they would keep their eye on this lad until we got things sorted out. We decided that we would talk to Frank Cairney and we did. He very forcibly, strenuously denied the allegation. He was very angry. He said nothing happened.

While we were talking about it, Pat Brannigan arrived and said he had spoken to his lawyer and the police. I also spoke to Pat's lawyer about the procedure and what we would do. I asked him what would happen if the boy made a formal complaint. And what he told me was the real shocker of the whole thing.

He said that Frank Cairney would be charged and that the boy, and the other boy who was staying in the house, would be put in protective custody. I was absolutely shattered about that. There was no way I could have landed at Glasgow Airport and told two sets of parents that their boys weren't there.

After that meeting I immediately contacted Celtic, but it was the Glasgow Fair and I had a terrible job trying to get a hold of people. I tried Jack McGinn, Jimmy Farrell (Celtic directors), but could not get them. I then phoned Sean McMullen and Bobby Creilly, two other boys' club officials.

I told them what had happened and I told them of my fear that the boys would be taken into protective custody and that this wasn't for me or even the boy to decide what they should do. I felt his parents should make that decision. This was the Thursday and we were due home on the Sunday.

We also booked three tickets to be held just in case the boy wanted home early. I spoke to the lad at regular intervals and he opted to stay at Brannigan's. He seemed to be coping. He continued to play in the tournament. I've always admired the boy and how he coped with all of this.

He was only 16 at the time. He actually started officially playing for Celtic on the Monday after he returned home. If the police interviewed the boy I wasn't aware of it. I think Pat Brannigan felt we weren't handling it correctly. But the reason we handled it the way we did was because I didn't believe it was up to me to decide what to do.

Eventually there was a meeting with the boy's parents which Creilly and McMullen had been trying to arrange. We left Kennedy Airport, New York, on Sunday, but still there was no word. We stopped over at Boston and this is where it all happened. There was a message at Boston for me to phone home.

I was told the meeting had concluded and the outcome was that the boy's parents were quite happy to leave the matter in Celtic's hands, provided Frank Cairney resigned from the boys' club on returning. Myself, Willie Hampson, Bill Gilfillan and John Gallacher, the four officials, met in the cafe at Boston airport and we told Frank Cairney what we had been advised.

He agreed to resign when he went home. We arrived at Glasgow and went straight to the park. Jack McGinn organised a meeting at 11am with Frank Cairney and a meeting with me at 2pm. At that meeting, he gave me a copy of Frank Cairney's resignation which said he had resigned because he had got promotion in his company and the pressure of work.

We were still concerned that we weren't quite covered, so we individually consulted lawyers and collectively spoke to a QC for advice. He asked if we could produce any more boys who could quote incidents from anywhere at any time. But we knew we couldn't do that.

The boy told me what happened. I cannot say what happened. But the parents wanted the boy to get on with his career and get on with his life, once they had been given assurances he was coping. We were never sworn to secrecy. The boy asked us not to talk about it and we respected his wishes."

The deal they had to be part of has left them sad, jaundiced men. All have since left Celtic Boys' Club.

Celtic last night set up a counselling service to provide support for families struggling to cope with the trauma of the Boys' Club revelations.

Celtic chairman Fergus McCann said: "Celtic Football Club has been receiving many calls from people and families in distress over the alleged incidents. In addition to asking people to report allegations to the police, it is obvious many need advice of trained specialists."

McCann also offered his support to current officials of the Boys Club. He added: "It is a great pity their good work should be tarnished by these alleged incidents."
 
Part 1 of the Scotland on Sunday article ...

The Other Side Of Paradise - 18 Aug 96
Scotland on Sunday
Celtic Boys' Club appealed to the dreams of a generation of football hopefuls, but they have only made the tabloids in a seamy tale of manipulation and abuse.

It all begins in a shrine, the walls adorned with artefacts and relics, all carefully arranged and devoutly displayed, past which the faithful shuffled and nourished their own dreams of immortality. Here, paradise seemed tangible, just a short trip away. But the changing faces who gaped in awe at this display of devotion were gullible young boys who worshipped a team.

They stared at the display of shirts and photographs, testimonials and autographs and believed the man who told them that they could look down from the window, across the city to the football ground in the East End and take all that lay before them.

Jim Torbett was 20 when he set up Celtic Boys' Club in 1966, seeking permission from the then manager Jock Stein to use the team's name. He was only a few years older than the lads who trooped through his living room. Boys who left believing, as he did, in dreams, certain that they were special, marked out for fame. Now 30 years on, those dreams have become nightmares for some, grown men marked forever by the shy but enthusiastic man who took them to the heights and then the depths.

John McCluskey is, in the unimpeachable judgment of former Celtic star Charlie Nicholas, the best young player he ever saw. Last week, McCluskey - who has fought drink, addiction and his own demons - was sitting in an upmarket Glasgow hotel, sipping cappuccino and waiting to make a statement to police that Torbett had sexually assaulted him. He had been so badly affected by the Dunblane massacre, he said, that he felt he had to make a stand.

Just two days before, the Daily Record had spread across five pages allegations that the boys' club founder had abused him. His allegation was supported by Ally Brazil, the former Ipswich and Spurs striker, another graduate of the Celtic academy, who claimed that Torbett kissed and fondled him when he was only 14.

Within hours of the story hitting the streets, and the newspaper setting up its abuse hotline, dozens of calls had come in and another man - Frank Cairney, the man who had been brought in by Jock Stein to get rid of the smears and innuendoes which for years had hung around the boys' club - was also being named as an abuser.

Whispers that something was not quite right with Celtic Boys' Club had been around since its inception. Some boys passed through the ranks unscathed, ducking slaps on the bum and over-enthusiastic spongings when they lay injured on the pitch. But others are alleged to have suffered at the hands of a man who abused his position in pursuit of paedophile perversions.

It seemed some of the weaker boys, those with less skill, less certain of a place on the first team, those with less parental guidance, became easy prey. They would be enticed back to Torbett's house with promises of meals and ice cream and sometimes less innocent pursuits would follow.

When Fergus McCann finally arrived in the halo of television lights at Parkhead in 1994 he knew that he faced a formidable task: rebuilding a stadium, a team and the belief of a support which had seen years of failed promises and dismal performance. What he did not expect - by way of an anonymous letter sent to him almost as soon as he was through the door - was a disturbing report of years of abuse at the boys' club.

Officially, the club was entirely separate from Celtic but McCann appreciated that it was inextricably bound to Parkhead in the minds of the public, and indeed in the hearts of some of the players and former players - like Peter Grant, Paul McStay and Tommy Burns - who had graduated from it to the big time of professional football.

McCann quickly went about trying to establish the truth, or not, of the accusations. He called in Jim Torbett and asked him to meet Celtic's lawyers and confirm or deny, in an affidavit which could be passed to the police, the accusations. Torbett repeatedly refused. He asked Ally Brazil and John McCluskey to make their allegations formal. Brazil refused at that stage. McCluskey agreed, but only if his statement was not passed to the police.

Ironically, McCann was playing out, more than three years on, a sad little tableau which had occurred at Parkhead under the old regime, ruled over by the Kelly and White families. In 1991 the boys' club had been to Kearney, New Jersey - an annual tour to the Irish part of the state with players staying at the homes of Catholic families.

One boy, no longer at Celtic but now a professional player in Scotland, had alleged to his hosts and to his own family that he had been assaulted by the team's general manager, Frank Cairney. The boy's father took him to Celtic Park to have it out with Liam Brady who was then only months in the job as team manager. The club's chief scout John Kelman was also present.

It was Brady's first serious and most affecting problem in a troubled time at Parkhead which did not last long. He listened to the boy, believed him, and insisted to the board that Cairney had to be removed, not only from the boys' club but from any association with the main football club. So, overnight, the man who was used to having his run of the place and the ear of the management, was cast out.

It was agreed, by Brady, the boy and his parents and the then Celtic board, that the police would not be informed. The young player was assured that the alleged incident would have no effect on his future career at the club. However, signed statements were taken by Celtic's lawyers from the four adults who had been on the New Jersey trip.

All were sworn to silence. Cairney was now away from the football club and its nursery - business commitments was the given reason - but Jim Torbett was back playing a major role, first as a fund-raiser then back with the boys' club. Torbett had maintained his connections with Celtic. Pre-McCann board member Kevin Kelly, still honorary president of the boys' club, is a fellow director of Torbett's company The Trophy Centre, and current board member Jack McGinn is an employee.

It is not clear why a man widely regarded as a child abuser was allowed back into a position of responsibility at the boys' club. Torbett had been kicked out in 1976 after being confronted by the committee and, according to Frank Cairney's account of the meeting, had broken down in tears and confessed.

One thing is sure - anyone using the term "paradise" in reference to Parkhead in any context needs both condemned and ridiculed.

A sick fucking joke!
 
Let's assume there is an NDA (just for the sake of argument).

Any NDA will have been signed by the parents and not the boy. I do not believe that a child can sign a legally binding document and certainly not an NDA. So the victim is not bound by any agreement. Only his parents are bound by that. Celtic have no redress against someone who never signed an agreement.

Other than that, if an NDA exists and have been signed by Celtic then that is absolute dynamite as it is absolute proof of the cover-up.

Good point mate.
 
Part 1 of the Scotland on Sunday article ...

The Other Side Of Paradise - 18 Aug 96
Scotland on Sunday
Celtic Boys' Club appealed to the dreams of a generation of football hopefuls, but they have only made the tabloids in a seamy tale of manipulation and abuse.

It all begins in a shrine, the walls adorned with artefacts and relics, all carefully arranged and devoutly displayed, past which the faithful shuffled and nourished their own dreams of immortality. Here, paradise seemed tangible, just a short trip away. But the changing faces who gaped in awe at this display of devotion were gullible young boys who worshipped a team.

They stared at the display of shirts and photographs, testimonials and autographs and believed the man who told them that they could look down from the window, across the city to the football ground in the East End and take all that lay before them.

Jim Torbett was 20 when he set up Celtic Boys' Club in 1966, seeking permission from the then manager Jock Stein to use the team's name. He was only a few years older than the lads who trooped through his living room. Boys who left believing, as he did, in dreams, certain that they were special, marked out for fame. Now 30 years on, those dreams have become nightmares for some, grown men marked forever by the shy but enthusiastic man who took them to the heights and then the depths.

John McCluskey is, in the unimpeachable judgment of former Celtic star Charlie Nicholas, the best young player he ever saw. Last week, McCluskey - who has fought drink, addiction and his own demons - was sitting in an upmarket Glasgow hotel, sipping cappuccino and waiting to make a statement to police that Torbett had sexually assaulted him. He had been so badly affected by the Dunblane massacre, he said, that he felt he had to make a stand.

Just two days before, the Daily Record had spread across five pages allegations that the boys' club founder had abused him. His allegation was supported by Ally Brazil, the former Ipswich and Spurs striker, another graduate of the Celtic academy, who claimed that Torbett kissed and fondled him when he was only 14.

Within hours of the story hitting the streets, and the newspaper setting up its abuse hotline, dozens of calls had come in and another man - Frank Cairney, the man who had been brought in by Jock Stein to get rid of the smears and innuendoes which for years had hung around the boys' club - was also being named as an abuser.

Whispers that something was not quite right with Celtic Boys' Club had been around since its inception. Some boys passed through the ranks unscathed, ducking slaps on the bum and over-enthusiastic spongings when they lay injured on the pitch. But others are alleged to have suffered at the hands of a man who abused his position in pursuit of paedophile perversions.

It seemed some of the weaker boys, those with less skill, less certain of a place on the first team, those with less parental guidance, became easy prey. They would be enticed back to Torbett's house with promises of meals and ice cream and sometimes less innocent pursuits would follow.

When Fergus McCann finally arrived in the halo of television lights at Parkhead in 1994 he knew that he faced a formidable task: rebuilding a stadium, a team and the belief of a support which had seen years of failed promises and dismal performance. What he did not expect - by way of an anonymous letter sent to him almost as soon as he was through the door - was a disturbing report of years of abuse at the boys' club.

Officially, the club was entirely separate from Celtic but McCann appreciated that it was inextricably bound to Parkhead in the minds of the public, and indeed in the hearts of some of the players and former players - like Peter Grant, Paul McStay and Tommy Burns - who had graduated from it to the big time of professional football.

McCann quickly went about trying to establish the truth, or not, of the accusations. He called in Jim Torbett and asked him to meet Celtic's lawyers and confirm or deny, in an affidavit which could be passed to the police, the accusations. Torbett repeatedly refused. He asked Ally Brazil and John McCluskey to make their allegations formal. Brazil refused at that stage. McCluskey agreed, but only if his statement was not passed to the police.

Ironically, McCann was playing out, more than three years on, a sad little tableau which had occurred at Parkhead under the old regime, ruled over by the Kelly and White families. In 1991 the boys' club had been to Kearney, New Jersey - an annual tour to the Irish part of the state with players staying at the homes of Catholic families.

One boy, no longer at Celtic but now a professional player in Scotland, had alleged to his hosts and to his own family that he had been assaulted by the team's general manager, Frank Cairney. The boy's father took him to Celtic Park to have it out with Liam Brady who was then only months in the job as team manager. The club's chief scout John Kelman was also present.

It was Brady's first serious and most affecting problem in a troubled time at Parkhead which did not last long. He listened to the boy, believed him, and insisted to the board that Cairney had to be removed, not only from the boys' club but from any association with the main football club. So, overnight, the man who was used to having his run of the place and the ear of the management, was cast out.

It was agreed, by Brady, the boy and his parents and the then Celtic board, that the police would not be informed. The young player was assured that the alleged incident would have no effect on his future career at the club. However, signed statements were taken by Celtic's lawyers from the four adults who had been on the New Jersey trip.

All were sworn to silence. Cairney was now away from the football club and its nursery - business commitments was the given reason - but Jim Torbett was back playing a major role, first as a fund-raiser then back with the boys' club. Torbett had maintained his connections with Celtic. Pre-McCann board member Kevin Kelly, still honorary president of the boys' club, is a fellow director of Torbett's company The Trophy Centre, and current board member Jack McGinn is an employee.

It is not clear why a man widely regarded as a child abuser was allowed back into a position of responsibility at the boys' club. Torbett had been kicked out in 1976 after being confronted by the committee and, according to Frank Cairney's account of the meeting, had broken down in tears and confessed.
The "smoking gun" by way of NDA's from the above:

It was agreed, by Brady, the boy and his parents and the then Celtic board, that the police would not be informed. The young player was assured that the alleged incident would have no effect on his future career at the club. However, signed statements were taken by Celtic's lawyers from the four adults who had been on the New Jersey trip.

All were sworn to silence. Cairney was now away from the football club and its nursery - business commitments was the given reason - but Jim Torbett was back playing a major role, first as a fund-raiser then back with the boys' club.

"all were sworn to silence"

And from Part 2:

The secret deal which protected a sex pervert for five years was struck in an American airport cafe.

If the "NDA" being referred to in this thread is related to States then the scum really could be in deep financial trouble in my view.
 
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I think we need to stop talk of affidavits and NDAs for now, especially any talk as though they definitely exist.

I'm not saying they don't, but since they were first mentioned in this thread it has grown arms and legs to the point people now expect them to appear and soon and could end up very disappointed. Again I'm not saying they don't exist, in fact it would make sense to me if they do, but given the political and media clout the filth enjoy they may never see the light of day, so unless jf1960, or anyone else for that matter, can produce evidence of their existence then any talk about them is no more than speculation.

Again, no offence or disrespect meant to anyone, I really mean that, but unless you're happy to just take it as speculation maybe it's time to move away from that kind of talk. There's plenty about the subject to talk about that's already a matter of public record.
Agree. Also careful on speculating on who knew what.

There is a tangled web, which may still shock us all, not just who is involved but also who isn’t.

What may also be interesting are the players in this we’ve had lurking the shadows before. Harper McLeod, relatives of past and present officials of Celtic. People of various powers
and opinion makers.
 
Is an NDA titled as an NDA, or is it a simply any document which pays out on the understanding that nothing on a particular subject is disclosed?

Could be Symantecs, but perhaps any document can be classed as an NDA, and be the smoking gun.

It’s just a document that a company uses for any confidential situation where a person is receiving or will receive confidential info and that they can’t divulge to others not party to the NDA.
It doesn’t necessarily involve payments between company & the person & often is used where there is a potential new business sale or purchase.
 
I think we need to stop talk of affidavits and NDAs for now, especially any talk as though they definitely exist.

I'm not saying they don't, but since they were first mentioned in this thread it has grown arms and legs to the point people now expect them to appear and soon and could end up very disappointed. Again I'm not saying they don't exist, in fact it would make sense to me if they do, but given the political and media clout the filth enjoy they may never see the light of day, so unless jf1960, or anyone else for that matter, can produce evidence of their existence then any talk about them is no more than speculation.

Again, no offence or disrespect meant to anyone, I really mean that, but unless you're happy to just take it as speculation maybe it's time to move away from that kind of talk. There's plenty about the subject to talk about that's already a matter of public record.


What use are they on a Rangers messageboard with possible court cases coming up about a cover up and liability. There is a lot of stuff in the public domain that hasn't been used yet. Wise given what lies ahead.
 
The "smoking gun" by way of NDA's from the above:

It was agreed, by Brady, the boy and his parents and the then Celtic board, that the police would not be informed. The young player was assured that the alleged incident would have no effect on his future career at the club. However, signed statements were taken by Celtic's lawyers from the four adults who had been on the New Jersey trip.

All were sworn to silence. Cairney was now away from the football club and its nursery - business commitments was the given reason - but Jim Torbett was back playing a major role, first as a fund-raiser then back with the boys' club.

"all were sworn to silence"

And from Part 2:

The secret deal which protected a sex pervert for five years was struck in an American airport cafe.

If the "NDA" being referred to in this thread is related to States then the scum really could be in deep financial trouble in my view.

That first sentence is what jumped out at me the first time I read that article, DG.

I don't have kids, but I can imagine no circumstances where a kid of mine was sexually assaulted, and I would enter into an agreement to keep the police out of it.

Informing the police would be the second thing I'd do - after kicking the shit out of the perpetrator.
 
I’d like someone to delve deep into Torbett’s trophy centre payments.

Am I correct in saying these payments were published in the St Pat’s accounts? (4x£250,000).

That’s a lot of cash for some plastic trophies. And while I’m on the subject, I’m presuming these trophies were for the various age group boy’s clubs benefit.
You know, the boy’s club that weren’t affiliated to Celtc.

That could be one of your NDA’s right there.
 
I’d like someone to delve deep into Torbett’s trophy centre payments.

Am I correct in saying these payments were published in the St Pat’s accounts? (4x£250,000).

That’s a lot of cash for some plastic trophies. And while I’m on the subject, I’m presuming these trophies were for the various age group boy’s clubs benefit.
You know, the boy’s club that weren’t affiliated to Celtc.

That could be one of your NDA’s right there.

It's been said that, at the time, the Trophy Centre supplied a lot, if not all, of Celtic's merchandise, not just wee trophies.
 
With regard to the NJ story, I think the guy took the correct course of action in making sure he got the 2 boys safely home to their families. Maybe not correct in a legal sense, but he could not have left 2 lads in the states under protective custody. What a feckin dilema.
 
That first sentence is what jumped out at me the first time I read that article, DG.

I don't have kids, but I can imagine no circumstances where a kid of mine was sexually assaulted, and I would enter into an agreement to keep the police out of it.

Informing the police would be the second thing I'd do - after kicking the shit out of the perpetrator.

I am by no means a fighter or a hard man - I couldn't punch my way out a wet paper bag as the saying goes. But, like you @johnkp, if I was in the position that this parent was in, the police would be getting called - for me as well as the beast.

I just cannot understand the mind set of these people. Putting that (or any) organisation above the welfare & well being of their own flesh & blood. It really is beyond comprehension!
 
I’d like someone to delve deep into Torbett’s trophy centre payments.

Am I correct in saying these payments were published in the St Pat’s accounts? (4x£250,000).

That’s a lot of cash for some plastic trophies. And while I’m on the subject, I’m presuming these trophies were for the various age group boy’s clubs benefit.
You know, the boy’s club that weren’t affiliated to Celtc.

That could be one of your NDA’s right there.
Good point on the boys club trophies mate
Does anyone have proof of the 4 x £250k payments
How could I find this?
 
With regard to the NJ story, I think the guy took the correct course of action in making sure he got the 2 boys safely home to their families. Maybe not correct in a legal sense, but he could not have left 2 lads in the states under protective custody. What a feckin dilema.

Certainly not if the club's stance was to try and cover it all up as they'd done in previous instances of abuse like their 1986 cover up / "investigation".

I understand what you're saying about getting the boys home but long term, I don't know if it's been the right thing as all it did was continue the cover up.
 
Their fans don't want to know.

Jackson’s Latest Celtic Piece Is Another Disgraceful Attack On Our Club And Its Officials. https://thecelticblog.com/2019/06/b...raceful-attack-on-our-club-and-its-officials/

Wow. It scares me their view on this. Even the regular fan doesnt want to talk about it. Its very similar to the catholic church and the schools..Protect the club at all costs, in the Vatican its protect the church at all costs as well. Makes my stomach turn.
 
I am by no means a fighter or a hard man - I couldn't punch my way out a wet paper bag as the saying goes. But, like you @johnkp, if I was in the position that this parent was in, the police would be getting called - for me as well as the beast.

I just cannot understand the mind set of these people. Putting that (or any) organisation above the welfare & well being of their own flesh & blood. It really is beyond comprehension!
It's cultish.
 
Certainly not if the club's stance was to try and cover it all up as they'd done in previous instances of abuse like their 1986 cover up / "investigation".

I understand what you're saying about getting the boys home but long term, I don't know if it's been the right thing as all it did was continue the cover up.

The way I read it was that the guy was only concerned about the boys . But what a terrible choice to have to make. Leave them alone over there or bring them home to their mum and Dad. I know what I’d have wanted if I was one of them.
 
Wow. It scares me their view on this. Even the regular fan doesnt want to talk about it. Its very similar to the catholic church and the schools..Protect the club at all costs, in the Vatican its protect the church at all costs as well. Makes my stomach turn.


But the very same people were financial advisors and moralists on financial matters seven years ago.
 
I’d like someone to delve deep into Torbett’s trophy centre payments.

Am I correct in saying these payments were published in the St Pat’s accounts? (4x£250,000).

That’s a lot of cash for some plastic trophies. And while I’m on the subject, I’m presuming these trophies were for the various age group boy’s clubs benefit.
You know, the boy’s club that weren’t affiliated to Celtc.

That could be one of your NDA’s right there.

Totally agree. Surely someone could rustle up a something better than this....

The current average price of a trophy in the UK at the moment is between 3 and 12 gbp.

Assuming inflation and cost comparison that I think would have been around 7 to 19 gbp equivalent in the 90's. (worth someone cleverer than me checking these figures).

So lets say that was the higher end of 19gbp.

That payment would have bought 52000. That is fifty two thousand trophies.

Are you telling me the trophy centre was handing out 13000 trophies a year.
Or 250 a week.

I mean jesus wept man, if that payment can be traced then someone with even an ounce of investigative clout could come up with an argument to question that....
 
Totally agree. Surely someone could rustle up a something better than this....

The current average price of a trophy in the UK at the moment is between 3 and 12 gbp.

Assuming inflation and cost comparison that I think would have been around 7 to 19 gbp equivalent in the 90's. (worth someone cleverer than me checking these figures).

So lets say that was the higher end of 19gbp.

That payment would have bought 52000. That is fifty two thousand trophies.

Are you telling me the trophy centre was handing out 13000 trophies a year.
Or 250 a week.

I mean jesus wept man, if that payment can be traced then someone with even an ounce of investigative clout could come up with an argument to question that....
That’s the problem with this. And it’s society/social media as a whole. It’s so easy to chat about things without knowing the whole story. As I understand it, the trophy centre supplied more than trophies.
 
@Robert Marshall other thread chopped


Robert, Im old enough and wise enough to think for myself.

There is good in bad in everyone. No matter if your a protestant, catholic or muslim.

Yes there are some horrible catholics in this words as there is protestants.

I ask you to go to Southern Ireland and ask why Religion there is falling at an alarming rate. The answer you are likely to get is because of canon law. And because of pedophiles within the church going unnoticed or pardoned.

Scotland is years behind Southern Ireland and the USA. Thats because we have many two brain celled plastic RCs. The ones I wrote about. There are MANY Celtic supporters who are appalled at what is going on. If you have never spoken to one Robert. Then I suggest thats because you talk to the two brain cell plastic ones. Or read the journalists views in Scotland that represent them.

Take a moment, google pedophile, and Catholic and target your location to Southern Ireland. You may find there is a massive difference of opinion to your WoS plastic RC that cannot think for themselves.

PS My family members are from the US and Southern Ireland. Not the bigoted WoS variety.
 
@Robert Marshall other thread chopped


Robert, Im old enough and wise enough to think for myself.

There is good in bad in everyone. No matter if your a protestant, catholic or muslim.

Yes there are some horrible catholics in this words as there is protestants.

I ask you to go to Southern Ireland and ask why Religion there is falling at an alarming rate. The answer you are likely to get is because of canon law. And because of pedophiles within the church going unnoticed or pardoned.

Scotland is years behind Southern Ireland and the USA. Thats because we have many two brain celled plastic RCs. The ones I wrote about. There are MANY Celtic supporters who are appalled at what is going on. If you have never spoken to one Robert. Then I suggest thats because you talk to the two brain cell plastic ones. Or read the journalists views in Scotland that represent them.

Take a moment, google pedophile, and Catholic and target your location to Southern Ireland. You may find there is a massive difference of opinion to your WoS plastic RC that cannot think for themselves.
I have never been to Ireland, The British or the Foreign part, I have hardly spoke to a Celtic fan for years ( 2012 )and have only the experience of the WOS Plastic Paddies.
I have yet to hear a RC criticise their Church.
I had a friend who was i a very senior place in GDC, and when he suggested to his local Priest that it was maybe time to amalgamate the schools, save money and give a better system. he was told to his face that he would get him deselected.
I don't care what anyone say's there is a catalogue of proof, they will never change.
Plus you don't see the damage they are doing to our Country close up
 
I have never been to Ireland, The British or the Foreign part, I have hardly spoke to a Celtic fan for years ( 2012 )and have only the experience of the WOS Plastic Paddies.
I have yet to hear a RC criticise their Church.
I had a friend who was i a very senior place in GDC, and when he suggested to his local Priest that it was maybe time to amalgamate the schools, save money and give a better system. he was told to his face that he would get him deselected.
I don't care what anyone say's there is a catalogue of proof, they will never change.
Plus you don't see the damage they are doing to our Country close up

Put on the news Robert, RCs are forever criticising their Religion. So much so some are changing faith. And thats just the celebrities that cannot accept the church stance on gays and child molesters.
 
That lot are on message, they are denying everything and trying to throw mud at unproven allegations against us.

The only thing they have is their Neely comfort blanket. That has also been pulled from them as the alleged offences did not take place when he was employed here

They are petrified.
 
Totally agree. Surely someone could rustle up a something better than this....

The current average price of a trophy in the UK at the moment is between 3 and 12 gbp.

Assuming inflation and cost comparison that I think would have been around 7 to 19 gbp equivalent in the 90's. (worth someone cleverer than me checking these figures).

So lets say that was the higher end of 19gbp.

That payment would have bought 52000. That is fifty two thousand trophies.

Are you telling me the trophy centre was handing out 13000 trophies a year.
Or 250 a week.


I mean jesus wept man, if that payment can be traced then someone with even an ounce of investigative clout could come up with an argument to question that....
Biscuit tin years, they were openly fiddling their taxes and attendances for years so anyone will be doing well to find official accounts for a paedophile cover up money laundering vehicle
 
Wow. It scares me their view on this. Even the regular fan doesnt want to talk about it. Its very similar to the catholic church and the schools..Protect the club at all costs, in the Vatican its protect the church at all costs as well. Makes my stomach turn.

Young impressionable celtic fans read that shit. That’s child abuse in itself.
 
Not up here :):):)

Aye, because you live in a two brain cell republic. 30 years behind. Just look at your journalists. Ask yourself would they ever get a career in the US? What groundbreaking journalism have they done?

FFS even Tom English has to go there for a living as he, as well as the plastic variety, are fucking shit at their trade.

Use Google. The WoS 2 brain cell catholic is not the norm. Its a disease that hold no bounds. Latest scandal proves this.

PS I am not for 1 minute sticking up for the RC religion worldwide. Its a cult. Needs closed down. But the WoS variety takes this to a new level.
 
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One thing is sure - anyone using the term "paradise" in reference to Parkhead in any context needs both condemned and ridiculed.

A sick fucking joke!

And I include that motherfucker Ian Crocker who loves to use that phrase. His paymasters at Sky better be well warned about that particular choice of words!
 
Wow. It scares me their view on this. Even the regular fan doesnt want to talk about it. Its very similar to the catholic church and the schools..Protect the club at all costs, in the Vatican its protect the church at all costs as well. Makes my stomach turn.

They are a different breed altogether.

How the fck can they look at themselves and still reply with the shite they have?

They are utterly shameful and disgusting. Like their Rancid Club and Roman Church.
 
Just read through the Anna Smith article from 2007, "Celtic Sex fiend left me weeping in Norway", about CBC starlet John McCluskey being abused by Torbett.
http://ifyouknowtheirhistory.blogspot.com/2007/11/celtic-sex-fiend-left-me-weeping-in.html

Amidst the horror of it all, McCluskey's own words on the "who knew" situation stand out:


" "There was always talk around Celtic about Torbett and boys, but nothing seemed to be done until Jock Stein found out. "He kicked Torbett out, but it was still kept quiet. "All the directors and lots of others knew why Torbett got the boot, but it was swept under the carpet." "
 
Aye, because you live in a two brain cell republic. 30 years behind. Just look at your journalists. Ask yourself would they ever get a career in the US? What groundbreaking journalism have they done?

FFS even Tom English has to go there for a living as he, as well as the plastic variety, are fucking shit at their trade.

Use Google. The WoS 2 brain cell catholic is not the norm. Its a disease that hold no bounds. Latest scandal proves this.
If my kids were young, I would emigrate to Florida
 
Put on the news Robert, RCs are forever criticising their Religion. So much so some are changing faith. And thats just the celebrities that cannot accept the church stance on gays and child molesters.

You do make a valid point re that. Countries like Brazil with growing educated people denouncing the Roman Church to become Protestants. But Scotland it's a different situation. They are brain dead and brainwashed by their Apartheid Sectarian Schools.
 
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