Murdo Fraser writes to Humza re 'hanging effigies'

monkey magic said:
Well done for taking the time to write but you are just saying what I said in the original post which I posted and the subsequent posts when I've been trying my best to keep this on the first page. Hammer time also had a thread asking posters to contact their MSP's and get them to get involved and ask questions of the Justice Minister on their behalf.

It is great that so many including yourself have taken up the request to get involved that myself and hammer time posted and hopefully, many more will still take the time out to do what you have or even to contact the Solicitor General or Lord Advocate with their thoughts and concerns on this whole sordid matter.


the original threads

https://www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/celtic-scum-will-escape-justice.69488/

https://www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/effigy-trial-collapse-mps-msps-we-have-all-emailed.69609/
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Letter will be posted tommorrow ,i dont hold out much hope, as we have a Natsi at the moment
 
Dadosgirl said:
Me too
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Not the point guys even if you didn't vote for him,he is your representative in government,and. It's your democratic right to ask him,if you don't get a satisfactory answer go higher,I'm in South West two Tories who have at least been sympathetic to my complaints especially BBC shitland,I still pester them,at thel mo brexit has taken pole position,I still keep e mailing BBC Scotland also,don't give up,just keep asking questions!
 
I'm certainly no authority on modern communication technology, but i would assume as others have mentioned that somewhere out there these files can be sourced,, what we need is for our club to kick up a stink now to get them found,, if this was the other side of the city that lot would have an i.t. expert on the case within hours,,come on rangers fc you are letting our support down once again
 
muttley said:
Humza Useless should be on his feet at Holyrood confirming that there will be a police investigation as to why crucial Court evidence could suddenly be " lost" from such an important case. There must be procedures within the PF Office as to signing in to be able to observe such sensitive Court evidence. Who was the last person who looked at the evidence before it was " lost " ?
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Given he’s a scum fan he won’t be trying hard to get an answer will he? Another in a long list of detestable individuals in the two secessionist parties (snp greens). This clown as transport minister drove with no insurance and had a photo shoot in a pub with ira stuff on display.

Sadly Murdo is wasting his time.
 
bob1873 said:
Given he’s a scum fan he won’t be trying hard to get an answer will he? Another in a long list of detestable individuals in the two secessionist parties (snp greens). This clown as transport minister drove with no insurance and had a photo shoot in a pub with ira stuff on display.

Sadly Murdo is wasting his time.
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he shouldnt be wasting his time though as Humza should do his job and we as supporters should all be on board with this campaign for justice
 
My partner works for the Police as a Production Keeper. They do not lose evidence. It is practically impossible. Only explanation would be that said evidence was not handed in to be catalogued, logged, given a number and stored in what is a very secure facility.
 
norm1890 said:
My partner works for the Police as a Production Keeper. They do not lose evidence. It is practically impossible. Only explanation would be that said evidence was not handed in to be catalogued, logged, given a number and stored in what is a very secure facility.
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It wouldn't have got to the stage at court if the police productions weren't handled correctly by the police and transferred to the PF and disclosures made to the defence.

The COPFS productions officers will have 'misplaced' it, and someone will get their knuckles rapped.

I'm not sure where the law would stand on 'secondary' copies being recertified to be used in court.
 
monkey magic said:
At least he has taken this seriously and written to him but he also needs to keep on his case . I also agree with Muttley there should be a police investigation to determine if Glasgow PF office has deliberately stopped justice and the rule of law being served.
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Quite rightly so , that’s what we pay taxes for !
 
Lost evidence? Considering the police took a week to find a crashed car on a motorway with 2 dead people inside is it a surprise? Useless,hopeless and clueless is what the whole lot are.
Humsa something unpleasant the whole episode.Corruption and collusion are words that springs to mind.
 
BSPECIAL said:
Lost evidence? Considering the police took a week to find a crashed car on a motorway with 2 dead people inside is it a surprise? Useless,hopeless and clueless is what the whole lot are.
Humsa something unpleasant the whole episode.Corruption and collusion are words that springs to mind.
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Hopeless, clueless?
Maybe.
But if this had been Rangers fans hanging effigies wearing crucifixes there is no way evidence would disappear or court proceedings dropped.
This is deliberate and we should demand we find out who it was.
 
JorgAlbertz said:
It wouldn't have got to the stage at court if the police productions weren't handled correctly by the police and transferred to the PF and disclosures made to the defence.

The COPFS productions officers will have 'misplaced' it, and someone will get their knuckles rapped.

I'm not sure where the law would stand on 'secondary' copies being recertified to be used in court.
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Knuckles rapped?
You, of course, mean discipline proceedings that could lead to a job loss surely?
That is if the criminal enquiry comes to nothing.

Secondary evidence can be used in a matter like this, it just needs to be tested in front of a judge where both the prosecution can make a case for it to be used and the defence if they feel inclined can make a case to have it not allowed and the case perhaps then dismissed.

In a case such as this clearly, there is a public interest value in proceeding with the case if possible.
The public should expect that the Crown in this instance acts as robustly as possible in seeking their day in court.

One, however, suspects from the haste in ditching the matter, that far from being robust those representing the Crown are only two happy to see that this matter never sees the inside of a courtroom.
The stench of rottenness surrounding this issue is permeating its way down to London.
Given that the Scots are now inadequate in even the fundamental aspects of running a modern justice system, Westminster should really intervene to examine why matters of law are now reduced to Banana State levels.
 
bilkobear said:
Knuckles rapped?
You, of course, mean discipline proceedings that could lead to a job loss surely?
That is if the criminal enquiry comes to nothing.

Secondary evidence can be used in a matter like this, it just needs to be tested in front of a judge where both the prosecution can make a case for it to be used and the defence if they feel inclined can make a case to have it not allowed and the case perhaps then dismissed.

In a case such as this clearly, there is a public interest value in proceeding with the case if possible.
The public should expect that the Crown in this instance acts as robustly as possible in seeking their day in court.

One, however, suspects from the haste in ditching the matter, that far from being robust those representing the Crown are only two happy to see that this matter never sees the inside of a courtroom.
The stench of rottenness surrounding this issue is permeating its way down to London.
Given that the Scots are now inadequate in even the fundamental aspects of running a modern justice system, Westminster should really intervene to examine why matters of law are now reduced to Banana State levels.
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Great post Bilko.

These guys want us to support them run this country ? And they can’t even ‘keep records’ ?

Hard to believe.
 
dh1963 said:
Hopeless, clueless?
Maybe.
But if this had been Rangers fans hanging effigies wearing crucifixes there is no way evidence would disappear or court proceedings dropped.
This is deliberate and we should demand we find out who it was.
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That is where the corruption and collusion comes into play.The police and the pf know the guilty parties but are they deliberately losing evidence due to who the guilty ones are?
 
FourMenHadADream said:
This is an easy one for us to get organised around. We should all contact our MP's with a similar letter and up the pressure on Yousless. I have included some text which you will hopefully be able to copy into a letter :-

Hi ****,

My name is **** and I am one of your constituents. I would like to express my incredulity and disappointment that the perpetrators of a hate crime will face no action due to some of the evidence from the case being “lost” by the COPFS.

I am referring to the well publicised case where Celtic fans hung effigies from the stands at a recent Celtic v Rangers match at Parkhead. I am sure you will recall this instance as it was widely regarded as being deeply offensive, considered to be a hate crime against rival supporters and was sickeningly committed on National Suicide Prevention Day.

Given the serious public concern around this incident, it is worrying that the COPFS / and or Police Scotland have “lost” evidence relating to this case, ultimately resulting in the perpetrators escaping without punishment.

I would be grateful if you could make some enquiries on my behalf to the Justice Minister and his department as to what has actually happened here. Are there any plans to investigate the circumstances around this loss of evidence and if so will any conclusions be made public? It hardly inspires confidence in our justice system if people who commit such crimes do not have to answer them because of incompetence in protecting crucial evidence. I await your response. Many thanks.

Regards *******
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Get copying and pasting Bears and get proactive!
 
Gazza1872 said:
Plenty of photos online to try and play it down as hanging effigies of Rangers fans, not so easy to find photos of the hanging effigy of the orangeman though. Country is riddled.
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Not to worry I’m sure plenty of bears have a wee screenshot or two
 
bilkobear said:
Knuckles rapped?
You, of course, mean discipline proceedings that could lead to a job loss surely?
That is if the criminal enquiry comes to nothing.

Secondary evidence can be used in a matter like this, it just needs to be tested in front of a judge where both the prosecution can make a case for it to be used and the defence if they feel inclined can make a case to have it not allowed and the case perhaps then dismissed.

In a case such as this clearly, there is a public interest value in proceeding with the case if possible.
The public should expect that the Crown in this instance acts as robustly as possible in seeking their day in court.

One, however, suspects from the haste in ditching the matter, that far from being robust those representing the Crown are only two happy to see that this matter never sees the inside of a courtroom.
The stench of rottenness surrounding this issue is permeating its way down to London.
Given that the Scots are now inadequate in even the fundamental aspects of running a modern justice system, Westminster should really intervene to examine why matters of law are now reduced to Banana State levels.
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I'd say that the problem with secondary evidence is that the prosecution & the defence appear to be the same thing in this case.
 
JorgAlbertz said:
It wouldn't have got to the stage at court if the police productions weren't handled correctly by the police and transferred to the PF and disclosures made to the defence.

The COPFS productions officers will have 'misplaced' it, and someone will get their knuckles rapped.

I'm not sure where the law would stand on 'secondary' copies being recertified to be used in court.
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I have never pressed on the process - obviously you are better informed. But my general point I am sure stands?
 
dh1963 said:
Hopeless, clueless?
Maybe.
But if this had been Rangers fans hanging effigies wearing crucifixes there is no way evidence would disappear or court proceedings dropped.
This is deliberate and we should demand we find out who it was.
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And while we are at it, can we ask P.S. how their investigation is getting on into the illegal leakers of confidential information from HMRC Centre One is getting on.
 
The 'dark ages' hype after the Steve Clarke issue reached England, was sent there by the Scottish media to ensure there is a one-sided sectarian problem in Scotland...poor catholics under constant threat and all that.

The hanging effigies case would have reached England too, but that had to be avoided at all costs.

Scotland is being suffocated by bigots and haters who are currently running the country. The Nats are dangerous to our way of life and want us silenced.

Don't vote for SNP.
 
Zwingli'sSausages said:
Get copying and pasting Bears and get proactive!
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We should all be getting involved and refusing to let this lie until full and frank answers have been sought. I would, however, just use the letter format quoted as a template and each poster put their own individual quotes and thoughts down as it looks really bad I think when so many of the same letters are sent.

the facts
1. If the SNP are serious about sectarianism and football then we as Rangers fans should have confidence in the justice system in Scotland but Glasgow PF makes that impossible as they always appear to have issues when prosecuting cases involving hate crimes against our club.

2. In the first diet of this effigy hate crime case the presiding Sheriff Alan Findlay hit out at Glasgow PF for failure to give full and proper disclosure to defence lawyers which you would think would be a wake up that they had to be careful in their handling of this case before they went before the court again.

3. It is therefore unbelievable that Glasgow PF office after already been warned about their behaviour has now "lost evidence"!

4. This matter needs a full Police investigation and the Justice minister needs to make a statement on why such an important case has been handled so badly by Glasgow procurator fiscal office. The SNP recently made a statement on sectarianism and football with regards trying to eradicate hate crimes in the game but, Glasgow PF office has failed to properly prosecute a disturbing anti-Protestant hate crime sectarianism case giving the message that hate- crime against Protestants isn't worthy of full and proper handling by the procurator fiscal.
 
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Tim Hunter said:
My MSP has confirmed that a police investigation has been ordered by the Lord Advocate.
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I first started the thread(s) on this and it is fantastic that so many have got involved and refused to back down and instead have demanded that a Police investigation gets underway as it is obvious that there is criminality here and someone should be brought to justice as justice so far has not been served for us.
 
Is that Police Scotland investigating Police Scotland or COPFS?
Cant see turkeys voting for Christmas this is the problem with a single force, no transparency
 
CROWN BUNGLE Police Scotland probe blunder which saw nine Celtic fans accused of hanging Rangers sex doll effigies walk free


COPS are probing the blunder which saw nine Celtic fans accused of hanging Rangers sex doll effigies walk free.
An investigation was launched after prosecutors lost photo and video evidence covering the Old Firm showdown at Parkhead.
Lord Advocate James Wolffe QC revealed the move in a letter to Tory MSP Murdo Fraser.
He wrote: “The circumstances which led to the loss of the productions in this case require to be fully investigated.

“The police have been asked to carry out that investigation.”
The stunt featured two dummies strung up wearing a Gers scarf and Orange Order sash.
Nine supporters were due to stand trial over the September 2016 incident. Mr Fraser welcomed the probe.
He said: “The failure to bring this to court has been a disgrace. Evidence like this doesn’t simply go missing.”

Police Scotland said inquiries were “ongoing”.
The Crown Office added it was “regrettable” the case had been scrapped.


https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/topic/scottish-crime/
 
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