defender
Well-Known Member
In theory why would this not be the way forward ?
SD v RFC Judgement
- Thread starter the_paceman
- Start date
There’ll be clauses in it about the deals imo
His team are too smart to not see that coming
@BrownBrogues
Any chance you can break this down?
I know it’s a lot but just a quick general overview and what you think the future holds?
Any chance you can break this down?
I know it’s a lot but just a quick general overview and what you think the future holds?
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
I’m honestly not seeing even an inkling of a suggestion anywhere in that judgement for such ‘optimism’ mate. I truly hope you are correct but it looks very, very unlikely from my interpretation of what I’ve just read.
RFC_Champions
I Make Stuff Up
What an absolute shambles this whole thing has been!
By that - I mean since the current board paid £3m to rid us of the fat cünt!
Is it a first year law student that is defending/advising us? That’s certainly what it feels like!
By that - I mean since the current board paid £3m to rid us of the fat cünt!
Is it a first year law student that is defending/advising us? That’s certainly what it feels like!
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Is bringing kit and merchandising back in house (as we dabbled with before) a way to break the Fat C*nts stranglehold? Would be complex and expensive to set up but once that link is broken we can move on from it.
Bobafett Bear
Well-Known Member
Disappointing and hope we can do something on appeal.
KGR98
Well-Known Member
It's up to SDI to match any offers their can't be a clause to legislate for any excellent retail offer if so it will be another Court case
archimedes
Well-Known Member
We clearly have a relationship with Elite, and of course there would be a lot of nudge nudge, wink wink etc. All we need is 1 year to break the contract with SDI and they are gone for good.
Go_Bert_Go
Well-Known Member
Reads to me that SD likely to be awarded the £1m + an amount equivalent to the profit made by Elite.
Rangers could be liable to damages from Elite.
The interesting bit is that SD want an injunction to stop Rangers cooperating with Elite or providing any retail space. Now if you had already expected that to happen, you would need a friendly high-profile business known to Rangers fans to work independently of the club to sell kit. Perhaps one close to the Stadium itself - but absolutely nothing to do with Rangers
Rangers could be liable to damages from Elite.
The interesting bit is that SD want an injunction to stop Rangers cooperating with Elite or providing any retail space. Now if you had already expected that to happen, you would need a friendly high-profile business known to Rangers fans to work independently of the club to sell kit. Perhaps one close to the Stadium itself - but absolutely nothing to do with Rangers
What’s slightly better about being tied to SD for life?
I know the financial side is better, but many won’t buy from them even if king came out dressed in a SD carrier bag telling us to
The Pontiac Bandit
Well-Known Member
Our board have fecked it with this and the memorial garden. It's hard not to think Robertson and Blair are amateurs.
BackJardine
Well-Known Member
There surely MUST be a way that we can use the contract to screw SD over or partner a kit deal with someone else.
I can't believe through all those board members and investors that they can't come up with something to turn that deal into our favour one way or another.
I can't believe through all those board members and investors that they can't come up with something to turn that deal into our favour one way or another.
Subway Bear
Well-Known Member
Northampton Lodger
I love honking my horn
Until told otherwise I am going to assume DK had always assumed this would be the outcome and has a plan ready.
The long and short of it is we spent money to get out of a contract we are now stuck with anyway
Dave King and co have fucked it because lets be realistic Ashley would bury us in any appeal.
I know they mean well and I'll be forever grateful to them but they have fucked this up big time.
Can anyone on here be honest and say they felt proud our club was selling strips in a boozer?
We are Rangers and we are meant to be a cut above the rest but we are selling our gear in a pop up shop in a pub.I know it was well intentioned but %^*& me how far have we fallen that supporters would accept that.
I want my club back.Thats all I want
Dave King and co have fucked it because lets be realistic Ashley would bury us in any appeal.
I know they mean well and I'll be forever grateful to them but they have fucked this up big time.
Can anyone on here be honest and say they felt proud our club was selling strips in a boozer?
We are Rangers and we are meant to be a cut above the rest but we are selling our gear in a pop up shop in a pub.I know it was well intentioned but %^*& me how far have we fallen that supporters would accept that.
I want my club back.Thats all I want
StirlingBear
Well-Known Member
Already appealed as far as I can tell.
One thing you would think our fans would have learned over the last few years is that cases can be appealed many times before the final outcome is finally reached. Take the tax case for example we won every round until the final one where a Judge ruled using common sense.
There is every chance our Hummel deal will be done by the time this has been dragged through the courts.
Just going by other court cases we have already had they seem to be constantly appealed and counter appealed until somebody gives in or there are no more avenues to appeal. I don't see us getting anything final anytime soon. I don't even expect our legal team have even shown their hand yet as there will be a few more appeals before we see any agreement or final Judgement reached.
Sir Walter
Well-Known Member
The board have got praise when deserved
Therefore it’s only right they cop criticism when merited
This has been an absolute shambolic handling of the SD affair. Entering into a new deal and paying them £3m to now be back in court and getting shafted is scandalous
Someone or some people on the board should be hounded for this.
It’s going to be a costly error and no sign of getting rid of SD either.
Add this nonsense to the memorial garden compensation claim and it’s all shambolic
Therefore it’s only right they cop criticism when merited
This has been an absolute shambolic handling of the SD affair. Entering into a new deal and paying them £3m to now be back in court and getting shafted is scandalous
Someone or some people on the board should be hounded for this.
It’s going to be a costly error and no sign of getting rid of SD either.
Add this nonsense to the memorial garden compensation claim and it’s all shambolic
That kind of blind faith let Murray lead us to near destruction mate
barrheadbear
Well-Known Member
This is mindblowingly inept, beggars fecking belief the absolute mess we have gotten ourselves into.
Like many I believed the £3m payment to SD freed us from the inequalities in the previous contract and going forward we would have a more normal business realtionship with them. It would seem we agreed terms that have us tied in knots with again the fans unsure whether buying any future merchandise helps the club or just lines Ashley's pockets.
We have lost every appeal to date so do not have much hope things will change. Just when you feel the worst is behind us, we can move forward this hits us like a speeding train - the financial hit we might have to take could derail us for years. King and the board have a duty to shareholders to make clear the terms of our new contract with SD and the financial cost of the Judges ruling.
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georgedoors
Well-Known Member
We need BETTER LAWYERS our lawyers have a spectacular failure rate.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Our legal team have already conceded many of the points SDI raised. We’ve readily admitted we were in breach of contract. That’s no longer in dispute.
As far as I can tell, we are in the Last Chance Saloon with this appeal - and we appear to have no bullets left in our guns.
Need to find a way to screw this fat fucker over and endure none of us enters his stores ever again
Reads to me that SD likely to be awarded the £1m + an amount equivalent to the profit made by Elite.
Rangers could be liable to damages from Elite.
The interesting bit is that SD want an injunction to stop Rangers cooperating with Elite or providing any retail space. Now if you had already expected that to happen, you would need a friendly high-profile business known to Rangers fans to work independently of the club to sell kit. Perhaps one close to the Stadium itself - but absolutely nothing to do with Rangers
Your suggesting that this pop up store will get round things. It wont. Any money they make at the pop up shop, we will probably be liable to pay along with the st enoch and Belfast store.
Now and forever
Well-Known Member
Sports Direct have been awarded damages that will run into 'many millions'.
This is after we paid £3m (which the club hid from us at the time) to get out of a previous deal which was presented to us as some great victory.
We have royally f*cked this up big time.
This is after we paid £3m (which the club hid from us at the time) to get out of a previous deal which was presented to us as some great victory.
We have royally f*cked this up big time.
Sir Walter
Well-Known Member
And IIRC we are liable to pay any costs Elite are hammered for too.
Incredible feck up by the board and one that is going to cost the club and not those on the board personally.
Can expect a player sale soon to cover this
Incredible feck up by the board and one that is going to cost the club and not those on the board personally.
Can expect a player sale soon to cover this
ThomasMRFC
Well-Known Member
Until after we stop 10? I feel our fans would accept a year where we arnt as competitive if it meant money would be spent getting out of this deal instead of transfers but not until after 55 is achieved and 10 is stopped
Go_Bert_Go
Well-Known Member
The damages won't be a case of what goes through the till in these places, it will be a projection of what would have been sold. So what is sold will help offset the losses. If they shut up the shop, it would not impact the damages.
BrownBrogues
Well-Known Member
Basics as the current judgement stands SD will have their contract honoured for the two year matching right they should have got last year. Rather than disrupt the current arrangement the Elite deal will run to next Summer when SD will take over the rights. In the meantime SD will be compensated for the revenue lost, but that would be a separate hearing following the Judge hearing Counsels argument. With regards to current injunction the Judge again wants to hear what level of injunction and Counsel arguments.
Note some saying we paid £3M to end the 7 year deal. That’s correct but we were due about the same amount back in dividends from RRL being wound up and we’ve never been paid.. shockingly this is has not been considered in the Courts flippant view that SDI will honour future payments by forcing us to continue to deal with them. Appeals will go, but it this stage I think the Board should just negotiate a financial end to the deal if they can rather than rack up more on Costs. Problem is this is probably about more than money now for Ashley. James Blair appears to have been out of his depth with this from reading that. Exit 7 Year deal contract appears to have had more boobie traps than the original deal.
I know we argued we will leave ourself open to claims from Elite. But I can’t see that they will have had their 2 seasons and their profits haven’t been hit. Damages with SDI is going to be a weird one to quantify.. if they are getting the contract honoured as of next year then what exactly have they lost other than potential interest from the revenue now.
Rangers fans won’t buy from SD so their fight is a fucking nonsense and it’s blatant the attempt is to hurt the current Board for stopping Ashley from owning the brand Rangers.. its an ugly fight we should all be up for.
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Earth Worm Jim
Well-Known Member
The many millions is highly worrying
It's also madness that folk dont believe that this will not have any effect on transfer budgets.
Not like we are cash rich ffs
Marty101
Well-Known Member
It’s very bad, but it’s not really a surprise – I hope (and expect) our Board were aware this was the likely outcome. Barring some amazing rabbit being pulled out of a hat, it always seemed likely that we were going to be found against on this – we were already hit by interim injunctions in this action back in October.
If nothing else, the judgment is a sobering summary of the various court actions and hearings in the various cases there have been over the last year.
Although I'm tempted, I'm not going to say anything about the comments on the credibility of our witnesses – everyone can read what the judge thought.
I find it extraordinary that we were trying to argue that the contract should be interpreted based on the subjective wishes/motivations and understanding of the parties. That is fundamentally and basically wrong, and frankly seems desperate (see para 46.)
The position is we have been found to have breached “the agreement” (as defined in the judgment), by entering into the Elite/Hummel agreement.
(We have also been found previously to have entered into an agreement with SDI by virtue of their offer to match an earlier version of the Elite/Hummel agreement, but the consequences of that is a matter for another hearing. It is clear that new agreement also includes the matching rights going forward though.)
An expanded version of the interim injunction granted in October 2018 is now to be made a permanent injunction (para 88), but it is accepted that for the 18/19 and 19/20 seasons, SDI’s remedy in practical terms is damages only.
The real effect of the injunction kicks in for 20/21 season – 88 para 2 (i) – (vii) ties our hands drastically. We won’t be able to continue to stick two fingers up to SDI as we have been last season.
There has been no finding by the Court as to what the damages figure is. All we know is that we were arguing that the £1m cap will apply. That is part of the justification for the injunction; £1m doesn’t sufficiently compensate, so damages aren’t enough and an injunction should be given.
There’s nothing in the judgement that suggests that the damages cap of £1m will be set aside – I think that will still apply.
(there’s also nothing in the judgment saying the old 7 year agreement will be coming back into play.)
Per 95 we are retaining the revenue we received last season, and to all intents and purposes should get the benefit of the revenue from Elite/Hummel this season too.
I don’t think SDI’s damages are the major issue here because of the £1m cap. The real issue is that we are being fenced in by the injunctions going forward, and won’t be able to pull the same sort of stunt we did to get round SDI’s contract last year (and this) going forward.
I am concerned at what damages we might end up owing Elite/Hummel though.
If nothing else, the judgment is a sobering summary of the various court actions and hearings in the various cases there have been over the last year.
Although I'm tempted, I'm not going to say anything about the comments on the credibility of our witnesses – everyone can read what the judge thought.
I find it extraordinary that we were trying to argue that the contract should be interpreted based on the subjective wishes/motivations and understanding of the parties. That is fundamentally and basically wrong, and frankly seems desperate (see para 46.)
The position is we have been found to have breached “the agreement” (as defined in the judgment), by entering into the Elite/Hummel agreement.
(We have also been found previously to have entered into an agreement with SDI by virtue of their offer to match an earlier version of the Elite/Hummel agreement, but the consequences of that is a matter for another hearing. It is clear that new agreement also includes the matching rights going forward though.)
An expanded version of the interim injunction granted in October 2018 is now to be made a permanent injunction (para 88), but it is accepted that for the 18/19 and 19/20 seasons, SDI’s remedy in practical terms is damages only.
The real effect of the injunction kicks in for 20/21 season – 88 para 2 (i) – (vii) ties our hands drastically. We won’t be able to continue to stick two fingers up to SDI as we have been last season.
There has been no finding by the Court as to what the damages figure is. All we know is that we were arguing that the £1m cap will apply. That is part of the justification for the injunction; £1m doesn’t sufficiently compensate, so damages aren’t enough and an injunction should be given.
There’s nothing in the judgement that suggests that the damages cap of £1m will be set aside – I think that will still apply.
(there’s also nothing in the judgment saying the old 7 year agreement will be coming back into play.)
Per 95 we are retaining the revenue we received last season, and to all intents and purposes should get the benefit of the revenue from Elite/Hummel this season too.
I don’t think SDI’s damages are the major issue here because of the £1m cap. The real issue is that we are being fenced in by the injunctions going forward, and won’t be able to pull the same sort of stunt we did to get round SDI’s contract last year (and this) going forward.
I am concerned at what damages we might end up owing Elite/Hummel though.
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Gibraltar Loyal
Well-Known Member
Is there a situation whereby we but direct from hummel? If they refuse to supply SD then what?
Also if SD do supply us in future do we have to give them badge rights?
Finally what if at wnd of this SD dont match do they still get compo?
Also if SD do supply us in future do we have to give them badge rights?
Finally what if at wnd of this SD dont match do they still get compo?
Thanks mate!
Always appreciate your input you always seem to be bang on with this stuff
The Iceman
Well-Known Member
Why don't we just donate the value of our purchases to the club and feck the fat basturd. Leave him with his tat.
He is never going to give us any money anyway.
He is never going to give us any money anyway.
trueblue77
Well-Known Member
Oh can we ? Ok.
cold
Well-Known Member
Where does it say they have been awarded damages that will run into the millions?
If only it was that simple, is it?
Sir Walter
Well-Known Member
Well unless there’s a magic money tree on Edmiston Drive, I’d expect so
unionjock2
Well-Known Member
That is why I dont think we will go that way. I'm of the opinion that DK has a long term plan for this JW, and one that will be beneficial to us in the end. He will not do to Rangers what Murray did. He hasn't let us down yet in my eyes and he wont in this.
BrownBrogues
Well-Known Member
In theory it wouldn’t.
Look simple as this £3M was to allow us to go to market to get a better split of the profit. This was achieved. Where we fucked up was trying to sneak out of any future arrangement with SD by going with Elite. What SD has to offer going forward would be the same split.. it will only impact the budgets if fans decide to boycott SD.. Fans are going to have a very difficult decision to make unless Rangers win an appeal.
BackJardine
Well-Known Member
Why did we not send SD a letter of the proposed terms made by Elite to match? It was black and white in the contract that they signed that we must do this.
I don't get why. Like someone said before, during the negotiations add clauses in regards to shirt sales and profits etc. If they match it so be it, we get paid compo or we gain in shirt sales.
I don't get why. Like someone said before, during the negotiations add clauses in regards to shirt sales and profits etc. If they match it so be it, we get paid compo or we gain in shirt sales.
Gibraltar Loyal
Well-Known Member
IF SD match the terms then the club gets the same income per shirt sale.
Now i know there is a lot of hatref towards ashley me included but if the club get same as what elite gets surely its better we get something then nothing? Im maybe clutching at straw ls here
Now i know there is a lot of hatref towards ashley me included but if the club get same as what elite gets surely its better we get something then nothing? Im maybe clutching at straw ls here
No Charles Green and the Rouges, gave SDI a blank contract and asked them to fill it with their own conditions. They done us up like a kipper.
Ever since we have tried to get out of every contract, only to find another hidden clause, then another. These contracts were not negotiated by 2 willing parties.
Rangers are doing all they can to get round it, not easy when odds are stacked against you.
Sasa5Papac
Well-Known Member
Personally I am proud of folk like @Robert Marshall who are doing what they can to help. I am also proud of folk like Dave King who put their money and time into trying to get the best out of a bad situation. I am not so proud of folk (like you) who come on here greeting and moaning because things havent gone our way. Can I ask what you have done to help? I guarantee it's a helluva lot less than King or the boys at the Loudon.
Marstonbear
Well-Known Member
You seem to be very knowledgeable about this. How much do we need to cover this? Is it all payable in one go? Do you think another insolvency event is likely?
BrownBrogues
Well-Known Member
I feel many won’t but it’s a horrible choice.
RaoulDuke11
Well-Known Member
There is, of course, a third option - which the club can't themselves raise - but it would involve the provision of a 'fans shirt' by a manufacturer, with all profits going to the club as a donation.
It absolutely CAN be done, but it'd need a decent bit of work from people who know what they're doing from a retail and commercial perspective - I'm sure Rangers' directors and commercial department could give the fans' some advice free of charge...
The wheels would need to start turning fairly quickly in order to sort out next seasons tops, of course.
Does anyone see any obvious issues with the above?
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