Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

alexg123 said:
Looks like that is the plan , dilly dally till no one’s left to give evidence and the Newlands guy coming out with systematic crimes across Scottish football is the filtering system where the main club ( CFC )gets to filter in beside those “ other “ Scottish football clubs who are guilty of similar crimes supposedly” :rolleyes: and the idea is to eventually , after all the blitz against the guilty club has died down a strict warning will be issued to all clubs about the safety of all children etc., at youth clubs and the like is paramount and if any further reports of this kind come to our attention we will come down sternly and punish any club who does not put child safety first in future You have all been warned blah ! blah! and CFC will agree with all that crap and quietly escape justice by being just one of the other clubs who will be warned to “ Watch it or else “ and they will hope that will be an end of it and them and the Japanese will be off the hook ...... I do hope this most certainly will NOT be the case but with some of those answers back to Tommy and Bluenose and all the lads doing a great job it looks like the only real justice will come from pressure outside Scotland .
Click to expand...
I think that's what they are trying to do. I still think many individuals in position of authority will have serious questions to answer once this breaks.
 
Tim Hunter said:
This has been printed before, but is worth another read. It is an extract from the SFA Independent interim review. It absolutely rejects any separate entity arguement.

"Historical and current relationships between senior football clubs and grassroots clubs

3.69 Historically in Scotland, in some areas, community-based youth football clubs have come into existence, developed and grown with an identity shared with the local senior professional club. There are a few examples of this across Scotland and, in some cases, these are quite prominent.

3.70 The historical ‘value’ seems to have been that these community-based youth football clubs, in the days before football academies, acted as a prime environment for young players to practice, learn and hone their skills and, often, transition to a trial or contract with the senior club itself. Essentially, they were ‘feeder’ clubs but with a relationship that went well beyond the through-put of young talent.

3.71 In these days the ties between those community-based youth football clubs and the senior professional club were clear and strong. It was acknowledged implicitly and explicitly that the youth football club was a part of the ‘family’ of the senior club; acted as a ‘feeder’ for young talent; and shared a tradition, history and heritage with the senior club. The relationship was strongly established to the point that officials of both clubs knew each other well and interacted; officials of the senior club were often involved in the activities and profile of the youth football club; the senior club would allow the youth football club to freely use its premises and facilities; branding, badging, colours and strips were almost if not completely identical."effectively with the issues. In most cases now there are no constitutional or legal connections between youth football clubs and the local senior professional club with which it had previous formal and informal ties and allegiance. However, if the youth football club persists in using the
same branding, badging, colours, and name as the senior club then it is disingenuous to claim that all
ties and connection are severed. Indeed, the Review has considered cases where the local youth
football club still has access to (and uses) the facilities of the senior club and its stadium without
charge. This does not denote a genuine separation.

3.72 When the senior club celebrated achievements, victories and successes this was shared by the
youth football club as much as commiseration in footballing defeat.

3.73 However, the Review concludes that if the relationship and history between the youth football
club and the senior club was so shared, so close, and so inextricable on positive achievements then
when alleged sexual abuse of young players formed part of the history of one then it too formed
part of the history of the other. A shared heritage is not confined to trophies, victories and
celebration. It also extends to defeats, failures, and deficiencies.

3.74 There are many downsides to this which sometimes overshadow the positives. Perhaps the
most evident to the Review has been the extent to which, at times, the closeness of this relationship
might, in the past, have manifested in a ‘closing of ranks’ if not a collusion. This is not surprising
since any “reputational damage” to one is therefore shared by the other. This evokes a
defensiveness that in no way serves the interests or the reputation of either well in the longer term.
However, this is so often the case with knee-jerk reactions and a misplaced sense of loyalty but it is
certainly not conducive to protecting young people from harm or reducing risk.

3.75 Where the Review has found that when allegations of sexual abuse have been made concerning
the community based youth football club our expectation would have been that the senior club
(almost like a parent) would have taken steps to put this right permanently by doing the right thing.
Unfortunately, we have seen some instances where this has not been the case and the senior club’s
response has centred on protection of its reputation and standing rather than addressing the core
problem with a view to achieving a permanent solution which protected young players properly and
permanently.

3.76 Although, particularly with the advent of club football academies, these relationships have
eased off, the Review is not confident that this has been addressed sufficiently satisfactorily to dealeffectively with the issues. In most cases now there are no constitutional or legal connections
between youth football clubs and the local senior professional club with which it had previous
formal and informal ties and allegiance. However, if the youth football club persists in using the
same branding, badging, colours, and name as the senior club then it is disingenuous to claim that all
ties and connection are severed. Indeed, the Review has considered cases where the local youth
football club still has access to (and uses) the facilities of the senior club and its stadium without
charge. This does not denote a genuine separation.

3.77 Many individuals who had given the Review personal accounts of alleged sexual abuse at such
youth football clubs expressed intense dismay at senior club’s current assertions that former
connections were ended as this seems to them a thinly disguised attempt by the senior club to
distance itself from its past shared relationship and, with it, a shared accountability. The Review
entirely sympathises with this view.

3.78 The Review urges an openness and transparency about this issue on the part of the clubs
concerned so that acknowledgement and accountability are evident to all.

3.79 The Independent Review recognises that some senior clubs and community-based youth
football clubs may have taken steps to clarify their relationship over recent years.

3.80 Nevertheless, the Review concludes that this has not either gone far enough or been
completed. Issues of heritage, history and tradition are aspects of this and sometimes only act to
obstruct a move towards greater transparency and accountability across the clubs concerned.

3.81 The Review concludes that facing and resolving this serious residual issue properly and
completely will act to restore public confidence and especially that of the wider ‘family’ of the clubs
concerned for whom this is an active source of concern.

3.81 The Review believes that the leadership of the senior club should take the initiative in resolving
the residual issues arising from a close relationship between clubs where, in either, alleged sexual
abuse has been an issue. It is not enough to arrive at a constitutional and legal separation without
addressing the ‘mixed messages’ that perpetuate through continued shared name, brand, colours,
facilities and resources.

3.82 Where this continues the public perception, rightly in the view of the Review, is that the old ties
are as strong as ever and that these ties signify a deeper systemic problem which runs counter to the
protection of young people and the reduction of risk.

3.83 The Independent Review is unequivocal in its view that the protection of ‘reputation’ whether
of a club or of an individual should not and must not supersede the imperative to protect young
people from harm and to pursue a clear duty of care to individual young people and to young
people in general."
Click to expand...

CFC and CBC are one and the same.
The below paragraph makes good reading.

3.73 However, the Review concludes that if the relationship and history between the youth football
club and the senior club was so shared, so close, and so inextricable on positive achievements then
when alleged sexual abuse of young players formed part of the history of one then it too formed
part of the history of the other. A shared heritage is not confined to trophies, victories and
celebration. It also extends to defeats, failures, and deficiencies.
 
The excerpt from the SFA's interim review that Tim Hunter has recently posted is interesting, not least the following statements it contains.

3.78 The Review urges an openness and transparency about this issue on the part of the clubs
concerned so that acknowledgement and accountability are evident to all.

So is the SFA going to oblige Celtic to conclude the internal investigation that it apparently started two years ago? Or if Celtic - ironically, the club that used to clamour for "clarification" whenever it felt its interests threatened - insist that it can't comment further because of ongoing cases, will the SFA oblige the club to specify which cases it means?

3.75 Where the Review has found that when allegations of sexual abuse have been made concerning
the community based youth football club our expectation would have been that the senior club
(almost like a parent) would have taken steps to put this right permanently by doing the right thing.
Unfortunately, we have seen some instances where this has not been the case and the senior club’s
response has centred on protection of its reputation and standing rather than addressing the core
problem with a view to achieving a permanent solution which protected young players properly and
permanently.

So what is the SFA's response going to be in these instances? Continue to wait until ongoing cases have gone through the legal process? If that is the case, why? Why precisely can it not address cases that have already resulted in convictions, in which the criminals' deeds, seemingly, were covered up lest they damage the reputation of the clubs with whom they were connected?

3.83 The Independent Review is unequivocal in its view that the protection of ‘reputation’ whether
of a club or of an individual should not and must not supersede the imperative to protect young
people from harm and to pursue a clear duty of care to individual young people and to young
people in general."

As above, what next SFA?
 
Tommy said:
and reply from GAVIN NEWLANDS just now.....

Dear Tommy,

The report I've referred to previously makes it quite clear that Scottish Football had a level of child abuse that is utterly unacceptable - and indeed any level of child abuse, in any football club or organisation, is utterly unacceptable. As I've stated before, this independent report was carried out by one of Scotland's foremost experts in child protection. I'm not sure who else would be better qualified to carry out such an assessment.

In terms of the motion at Westminster, Parliament is not in session just now so Early Day Motions cannot be signed. However, as I have said previously, it is concerning that the focus seems to be on one organisation to the apparent exclusion of the wider, systemic crimes that were committed for decades by individuals using their position at a number of Scottish football clubs and many, many other organisations.

Let me emphasise once again that all who perpetrated the disgusting abuse on children that has only recently come to light should be brought to justice and the full weight of the policing and judicial system brought to bear on them. And let me also emphasise once again that to focus on one football club and not acknowledge the other victims connected to other organisations and clubs is to ignore the reality of what is, without question, a shameful episode in our nation's recent history.

Yours,

Gavin Newlands MP
Paisley and Renfrewshire North



i wil post my response to this later
Click to expand...
How many had directors intentionally covering it up as scurrilous accusations knowing full well they were all true.
 
shoulderpads said:
The excerpt from the SFA's interim review that Tim Hunter has recently posted is interesting, not least the following statements it contains.

3.78 The Review urges an openness and transparency about this issue on the part of the clubs
concerned so that acknowledgement and accountability are evident to all.

So is the SFA going to oblige Celtic to conclude the internal investigation that it apparently started two years ago? Or if Celtic - ironically, the club that used to clamour for "clarification" whenever it felt its interests threatened - insist that it can't comment further because of ongoing cases, will the SFA oblige the club to specify which cases it means?

3.75 Where the Review has found that when allegations of sexual abuse have been made concerning
the community based youth football club our expectation would have been that the senior club
(almost like a parent) would have taken steps to put this right permanently by doing the right thing.
Unfortunately, we have seen some instances where this has not been the case and the senior club’s
response has centred on protection of its reputation and standing rather than addressing the core
problem with a view to achieving a permanent solution which protected young players properly and
permanently.

So what is the SFA's response going to be in these instances? Continue to wait until ongoing cases have gone through the legal process? If that is the case, why? Why precisely can it not address cases that have already resulted in convictions, in which the criminals' deeds, seemingly, were covered up lest they damage the reputation of the clubs with whom they were connected?

3.83 The Independent Review is unequivocal in its view that the protection of ‘reputation’ whether
of a club or of an individual should not and must not supersede the imperative to protect young
people from harm and to pursue a clear duty of care to individual young people and to young
people in general."

As above, what next SFA?
Click to expand...


fantastic post, one wonder why the media arent raising this point.
 
alexg123 said:
Looks like that is the plan , dilly dally till no one’s left to give evidence and the Newlands guy coming out with systematic crimes across Scottish football is the filtering system where the main club ( CFC )gets to filter in beside those “ other “ Scottish football clubs who are guilty of similar crimes supposedly” :rolleyes: and the idea is to eventually , after all the blitz against the guilty club has died down a strict warning will be issued to all clubs about the safety of all children etc., at youth clubs and the like is paramount and if any further reports of this kind come to our attention we will come down sternly and punish any club who does not put child safety first in future You have all been warned blah ! blah! and CFC will agree with all that crap and quietly escape justice by being just one of the other clubs who will be warned to “ Watch it or else “ and they will hope that will be an end of it and them and the Japanese will be off the hook ...... I do hope this most certainly will NOT be the case but with some of those answers back to Tommy and Bluenose and all the lads doing a great job it looks like the only real justice will come from pressure outside Scotland .
Click to expand...
No other club(well maybe Hibs too)has implemented a cover up on such a massive scale. From the day Stein kicked Torbett out up until today, those in power at Celtc have orchestrated a wall of silence, which has allowed the abuse to continue unnecessarily for decades.
They have existed in a moral vacuum, they care about nothing except themselves, to the point where the lives and welfare of their own children have become expendable, to protect their "good name."
 
Last edited:
Tommy said:
just emailed all of british footballs clubs,asking for them to call for and support a full independent inquiry into celtics historic sex abuse ,in light of the recent man city and chelsea revelations.
also pointed out to the scottish clubs in particular ,that a scottish mp called Gavin Newlands has stated that there was widespread sex abuse across the whole of scottish football and asked them ,if they had any sex abuse at their clubs and if so,what convictions were made.
Click to expand...
Brilliant. But the thing here is Newlands and any of these MSPs who reply is they want to condemn child abuse as a whole, throughout Scottish football.

I do to, I want to know exactly was going on, I would like to see an enquiry in to this, and even the Neely and Dunn allegations that they fling around. I will be happy for any of this to go ahead, and find out the extent of the rings influence.

The thing is, none of them are willing to shine a light on the real story, and that's the cover up that's still going on. You can see it in their replies in these emails that they will not call Celtic out on their cover up, they weasel their way around it.

Its infuriating, and its got to the stage, when any of them comment on line about anything to do with Rangers, as they are likely to do. I'm really blunt and just call them out on their 40 year peado ring, and the fact their slimy clubs pretty much condoned it.
This pretty much has the desired effect on them.

They are desperate for us not to talk about it, and are hoping that most people won't comment due to the taboo nature of the subject.
We need to keep calling them out at every opportunity, on every possible forum.
 
Cooper_11 said:
CFC and CBC are one and the same.
The below paragraph makes good reading.

3.73 However, the Review concludes that if the relationship and history between the youth football
club and the senior club was so shared, so close, and so inextricable on positive achievements then
when alleged sexual abuse of young players formed part of the history of one then it too formed
part of the history of the other. A shared heritage is not confined to trophies, victories and
celebration. It also extends to defeats, failures, and deficiencies.
Click to expand...
Oh dear..
 
Souness86 said:
This review stuff looks dynamite to be honest.

Almost looks as though it has been determined solely with Celtic in mind.
Click to expand...
It certainly looks bespoke to fit the vile club that protected and enabled the biggest paedophile ring in sporting history. I can only agree with them when they suggest that they are ‘a club like no other’.
If the cap fits...
 
Last edited:
Tommy said:
just emailed all of british footballs clubs,asking for them to call for and support a full independent inquiry into celtics historic sex abuse ,in light of the recent man city and chelsea revelations.
also pointed out to the scottish clubs in particular ,that a scottish mp called Gavin Newlands has stated that there was widespread sex abuse across the whole of scottish football and asked them ,if they had any sex abuse at their clubs and if so,what convictions were made.
Click to expand...
Well done Great effort
 
Tim Hunter said:
No other club(well maybe Hibs too)has implemented a cover up on such a massive scale. From the day Stein kicked Torbett out up until today, those in power at Celtc have orchestrated a wall of silence, which has allowed the abuse to continue unnecessarily for decades.
They have existed in a moral vacuum, they care about nothing except themselves, to the point where the lives and welfare of their own children have become expendable, to protect their "good name."
Click to expand...
I honestly think Hibs are linked, not trying to derail the post, i just think when this gets properly investigated they will somehow be involved,but they will keep for another time.
 
When we talk about other clubs youth systems, do they have instances of abuse that typically (and unfortunately) meet any sort of average for any organisation that exists in the involvement of young people?

How many years has X company (be it education, a football club, scouts, work experience, summer camps, detention centres, foster care, religious institutions etc.) been involved with youths and how many employees have been involved around those youths over those operating years? There's a possibility an employee could have been a predator just by the sheer number of employees involved over the years and the type of work that company does.

What have the companies in these instances done? Carried out their own investigation? Fired the individual? Notified the police? Should there be an independent enquiry into all clubs, what instances of this evil they've encountered and how it was dealt with? Absolutely.

Is there a difference between an average who is dealt with, the youths protected and the blatant, systematic abuse of a peadophile ring over a 40 year period that has been denied, covered up and distanced by one club and it's employees? Absolutely.
 
I'm not comfortable with Twitter but this would appear to be an appropriate page to contact them on


Al Jazeera Investigations

@AJIunit
·
Apr 10
Very pleased to report that our investigations #CricketsMatchFixers, #IslamophobiaInc, #TheOligarchs and #FootballsWallOfSilence all picked up gold medals at the New York Festival TV & Film Awards

You can watch our award winning films on our website: (link: https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/) aljazeera.com/investigations/ (link:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1115813736806322176
) twitter.com/NYFTVFilmAward…
Quote Tweet

NYF TV & Film Awards

@NYFTVFilmAwards
· Apr 10
Al Jazeera Investigations earned six Gold and two Silvers. In “Football Wall of Silence ,” producers working with journalist Deborah Davies revisit victims of the sexual child abuse scandal that rocked the British football establishment twenty years earlier. #NYFTVF2019 (link:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1115813736806322176
) pic.twitter.com/ySA0teLtY6
 
There is an element of truth in Newlands' assertions that there is widespread instances of historic csa in Scottish football, as can be seen by the latest conviction of the ex- Motherwell coach.
By their very nature, these beasts are adept at infiltrating organisations which can provide an endless supply of victims and can operate there for years under a veil of secrecy created by fear and intimidation.
Where this happens within a football club, the club should not be held responsible unless it can be proved that senior officials of the club were fully aware of csa being carried out by their employee(s) and took no action to stop it, or the club employed individuals without carrying out the necessary screening process required by law at the time.
The question is not"should Celtic FC (or indeed any other club, including Rangers) be punished because paedophiles were operating within its jurisdiction?"
But rather "should Celtic FC be punished for ALLOWING paedophiles to operate within its jurisdiction?"
To date,Celtic is the only Scottish football club that is facing serious allegations of enabling, facilitating and concealing csa. I can see no reason that these allegations are not immediately investigated by the police. Any subsequent offences that come to light can be prosecuted separately. After all , McCafferty was investigated and convicted for offences in NI and then faced subsequent prosecution for his offences committed in Scotland.
 
alexg123 said:
Looks like that is the plan , dilly dally till no one’s left to give evidence and the Newlands guy coming out with systematic crimes across Scottish football is the filtering system where the main club ( CFC )gets to filter in beside those “ other “ Scottish football clubs who are guilty of similar crimes supposedly” :rolleyes: and the idea is to eventually , after all the blitz against the guilty club has died down a strict warning will be issued to all clubs about the safety of all children etc., at youth clubs and the like is paramount and if any further reports of this kind come to our attention we will come down sternly and punish any club who does not put child safety first in future You have all been warned blah ! blah! and CFC will agree with all that crap and quietly escape justice by being just one of the other clubs who will be warned to “ Watch it or else “ and they will hope that will be an end of it and them and the Japanese will be off the hook ...... I do hope this most certainly will NOT be the case but with some of those answers back to Tommy and Bluenose and all the lads doing a great job it looks like the only real justice will come from pressure outside Scotland .
Click to expand...
I totally agree A123, this would undoubtedly be Seperate Entity FC's preferred playing out of events. I also have absolutely no doubt that there will be other Scottish clubs who have been used as a vehicle to access vulnerable children by Paedophiles. However, let's not forget that the self proclaimed "Club like no other" :-
Have spent 50 years knowingly covering up heinous child abuse crimes,
Have paid children and their families off when they brought evidence of said crimes to their attention,
Have offered young victims fulltime contracts to help buy their silence (The USA case / Boston airport cover up deal,
Have asked Parents and children who were victims to sign Non Disclosure Agreements,
Have internally investigated allegations of child abuse, coming to the conclusion that the claims were without foundation and "scurrilous",
Have publicly supported their Celtic Boys Club officials who had been accused through the Celtic View whilst expressing hope that their investigations would finally end these allegations,
Have sacked Members of staff who have been accused to keep Parents and victims quiet whilst explaining the reasons that the sacked Paedophile has left the Club is due to pressures of work and thanking them for their service.
I could go on.
So whilst other clubs may well have been the victims of predatory Paedophiles over the years, they will not be able to be considered comparable to Celtic until they are proved to have had their own Paedophile ring, have spent 50 years covering it up, have silenced victims with NDA agreements, have re-employed a known Paedophile having earlier kicked him out of the club, have distanced themselves from their Boys Club and have attacked victims claims as scurrilous. Any other club would also have to have had their own "open secret" for 40 years.
Their self aggrandized moniker of a "Club like no other" is unoubtedly both succinct and accurate and one which they have certainly earned here. No other club would act, for 50 years, with such a morally bankrupt stance in support of self preservation. We must never forget and we must also never allow them to forget that there have been generations of young victims whose lives have been fundamentally and seriously negatively affected because scores of Celtic Officials thought it was more imprtant to "protect the good name of Celtic" than to phone the Police.
 
What about hitting up some of their well known celebrity supporters for their opinions, might possibly get some newsworthy reactions to keep it simmering in the media , off the top of my head, Rod Stewart, Bono, Noel & Liam Gallagher
 
FourMenHadADream said:
I totally agree A123, this would undoubtedly be Seperate Entity FC's preferred playing out of events. I also have absolutely no doubt that there will be other Scottish clubs who have been used as a vehicle to access vulnerable children by Paedophiles. However, let's not forget that the self proclaimed "Club like no other" :-
Have spent 50 years knowingly covering up heinous child abuse crimes,
Have paid children and their families off when they brought evidence of said crimes to their attention,
Have offered young victims fulltime contracts to help buy their silence (The USA case / Boston airport cover up deal,
Have asked Parents and children who were victims to sign Non Disclosure Agreements,
Have internally investigated allegations of child abuse, coming to the conclusion that the claims were without foundation and "scurrilous",
Have publicly supported their Celtic Boys Club officials who had been accused through the Celtic View whilst expressing hope that their investigations would finally end these allegations,
Have sacked Members of staff who have been accused to keep Parents and victims quiet whilst explaining the reasons that the sacked Paedophile has left the Club is due to pressures of work and thanking them for their service.
I could go on.
So whilst other clubs may well have been the victims of predatory Paedophiles over the years, they will not be able to be considered comparable to Celtic until they are proved to have had their own Paedophile ring, have spent 50 years covering it up, have silenced victims with NDA agreements, have re-employed a known Paedophile having earlier kicked him out of the club, have distanced themselves from their Boys Club and have attacked victims claims as scurrilous. Any other club would also have to have had their own "open secret" for 40 years.
Their self aggrandized moniker of a "Club like no other" is unoubtedly both succinct and accurate and one which they have certainly earned here. No other club would act, for 50 years, with such a morally bankrupt stance in support of self preservation. We must never forget and we must also never allow them to forget that there have been generations of young victims whose lives have been fundamentally and seriously negatively affected because scores of Celtic Officials thought it was more imprtant to "protect the good name of Celtic" than to phone the Police.
Click to expand...

its actually worse than that as well though

as mcginn and his wife - who was using her maiden name BTW - were on the Board of the Trophy centre WITH torbett

individuals were financially enriched while a paedo went about his business

THIS is why they don't want an enquiry into what went on
 
If the Bheasts are using a scatter gun approach to try and implicate other clubs and soften the impact on them in the abuse in Scottish football other clubs should be up in arms,
I would welcome an independent investigation into abuse in Scottish football and would not be surprised if there was individual pervs in and around a few clubs but none in the industrial scale and subsequent cover up at the cesspit .
 
BlueHaze said:
If the Bheasts are using a scatter gun approach to try and implicate other clubs and soften the impact on them in the abuse in Scottish football other clubs should be up in arms,
I would welcome an independent investigation into abuse in Scottish football and would not be surprised if there was individual pervs in and around a few clubs but none in the industrial scale and subsequent cover up at the cesspit .
Click to expand...

Exactly BH
 
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