Open letter to the club

Today's stand closure answers the question for you.

Yes we need someone to tell us exactly what we can and cant sing.

Lets get talking to the club and get agreement before its too late.

I could understand that if I believed the folks singing these songs were doing so in ignorance of the fact that they were likely to get us into bother. They weren't. We all knew the potential was there. Goodness me, the Club even went to the bother of releasing a statement before every EL qualifier warning us FARE were in attendance.
 
Don’t sing tbb or songs with any add ons in Europe it’s really that simple.

But it’s not though and that’s the reality.

We have a core support who associate our club with loyalism and ulster. We have also had ex players mark signed cards with FTP so your not telling me it’s as simple as telling someone to stop signing a song
 
If that is, indeed, the case then it doesn't speak too highly of the average intelligence of our supporters. Sadly.

If we boil the issue down to basics, then yes, everyone knows what should and should not be sung. Everyone. Boiling it down to basics unfortunately ignores a number of issues, including those who are defiant, those who are retaliatory, those who have a different threshold and those that simply do not want to be told what to do. All of those issues require FAR more than 'stop x, y and z', they require engagement and dialogue from the club and a firm, sensible plan for moving past it all. Without that, we will always have people looking for excuses to carry on as before.
 
Right numbskull here’s a list

The 50p flute song for starters

The Billy Boys or any song that calls people 19th Century Terrorist Bastards

Follow Follow when you pollute it with Fcuk the Pope and the Vatican

Any song about the UVF or the UDA

I’ve been following home and away for decades so please don’t doubt my loyalties. This is not complicated, we need to stop it now. The songs at Kilmarnock we’re full of the stuff mentioned yet we have some fantastic old and new songs and chants that don’t have the garbage in them.

Let’s clean this up and let’s start on Sunday.

You didnt mention Derrys Walls, or The Sash and you forgot FF references Dublin. Not acceptable to some. Nor is WATP or Rule Britannia or even God Save the Queen.

That's why we need the club to start engaging with fans and fan reps.

Try to keep it civil. We're all hurting but Im more concerned with getting a proper solution rather than just blaming miscellaneous fans. We need to do better than plan A.
 
It's hardly rocket science, everyone knows what they shouldn't be singing. Some hide behind ignorance, some are honest enough to not even do that, but they are all damaging the Club with their selfish need to sing about 19th Century Terrorists and popes. It's not wanted anywhere near the Club and it's going to result in a full stadium closure - it may already have considering we've played another 5 matches since the one we've just been sanctioned for!
 
You didnt mention Derrys Walls, or The Sash and you forgot FF references Dublin. Not acceptable to some. Nor is WATP or Rule Britannia or even God Save the Queen.

That's why we need the club to start engaging with fans and fan reps.

Try to keep it civil. We're all hurting but Im more concerned with getting a proper solution rather than just blaming miscellaneous fans. We need to do better than plan A.

UEFA are not going after these songs, stop being so obtuse. We all know fine well what is the problem.
 
But it’s not though and that’s the reality.

We have a core support who associate our club with loyalism and ulster. We have also had ex players mark signed cards with FTP so your not telling me it’s as simple as telling someone to stop signing a song

Part of the problem is the club and many fans think all you need to do is say "stop singing sectarian songs". It aint that simple as we've seen over the years.

The club needs to start talking to fans and fan reps. Bloody hell I could do it myself if they gave me the go ahead. Its not rocket science.
 
But it’s not though and that’s the reality.

We have a core support who associate our club with loyalism and ulster. We have also had ex players mark signed cards with FTP so your not telling me it’s as simple as telling someone to stop signing a song


I’m talking about getting our club into trouble stop it in Europe and we will be fine. I’m afraid the loyalist songs will never stop.
 
If we boil the issue down to basics, then yes, everyone knows what should and should not be sung. Everyone. Boiling it down to basics unfortunately ignores a number of issues, including those who are defiant, those who are retaliatory, those who have a different threshold and those that simply do not want to be told what to do. All of those issues require FAR more than 'stop x, y and z', they require engagement and dialogue from the club and a firm, sensible plan for moving past it all. Without that, we will always have people looking for excuses to carry on as before.

We agree that everyone knows what's right and wrong then. Those who STILL choose to sing these songs for the reasons you outline, I'd suggest, aren't then going to stop doing so simply because the Club produce a list of what's OK and what's not. If they are pig-headed now they will likely become even more so thereafter.

I concede I don't know what the answer is - indeed your way may well be the best way in the absence of anything else - but I have severe reservations as to what it could actually achieve.
 
UEFA are not going after these songs, stop being so obtuse. We all know fine well what is the problem.

No you dont. Thats the problem right there. Its not clear.

Incidentally the last time we got sanctioned by uefa was for Build My Gallowd iirc.
 
Part of the problem is the club and many fans think all you need to do is say "stop singing sectarian songs". It aint that simple as we've seen over the years.

The club needs to start talking to fans and fan reps. Bloody hell I could do it myself if they gave me the go ahead. Its not rocket science.

I genuinely don’t believe our support can stop it.

There’s also the argument or Tim’s in desguise singing the songs
 
We agree that everyone knows what's right and wrong then. Those who STILL choose to sing these songs for the reasons you outline, I'd suggest, aren't then going to stop doing so simply because the Club produce a list of what's OK and what's not. If they are pig-headed now they will likely become even more so thereafter.

I concede I don't know what the answer is - indeed your way may well be the best way in the absence of anything else - but I have severe reservations as to what it could actually achieve.

What makes you think I am just asking for a list of songs we cannot sing?? I thought I was particularly clear on the point that the club needs to start listening to the complaints of the support, such as uneven media handling, uneven sanctioning etc etc. THAT is far more important than a simple list of songs that should be pretty obvious to everyone anyway.

People make excuses for carrying on singing songs they know will get us in bother. Start addressing those excuses, render them pointless. GIVE something to a support that feels besieged on all sides by defending them where possible, pushing their complaints when others are given free reign, working along side them rather than sitting in an office making proclamations.
 
No you dont. Thats the problem right there. Its not clear.

Incidentally the last time we got sanctioned by uefa was for Build My Gallowd iirc.

It is clear. No one is complaining about Follow Follow. The only mention of Dublin was an article by Hugh Keevins about 10 years ago, no one's mentioned it before or since. He tested the water and realised he'd been too ridiculous.
 
We agree that everyone knows what's right and wrong then. Those who STILL choose to sing these songs for the reasons you outline, I'd suggest, aren't then going to stop doing so simply because the Club produce a list of what's OK and what's not. If they are pig-headed now they will likely become even more so thereafter.

I concede I don't know what the answer is - indeed your way may well be the best way in the absence of anything else - but I have severe reservations as to what it could actually achieve.

You're wrong when you say everyone knows. They dont.
 
It is clear. No one is complaining about Follow Follow. The only mention of Dublin was an article by Hugh Keevins about 10 years ago, no one's mentioned it before or since. He tested the water and realised he'd been too ridiculous.

Gerry McNee raised it on the radio but you arent naive enough to believe its only a few songs they're after. They want WATP banned along with the Sash and Derrys Walls to name just a few. The point is Rangers need to start discussing this with fans and get an agreement in place that satisfies eufa and SFA etc.
 
What makes you think I am just asking for a list of songs we cannot sing?? I thought I was particularly clear on the point that the club needs to start listening to the complaints of the support, such as uneven media handling, uneven sanctioning etc etc. THAT is far more important than a simple list of songs that should be pretty obvious to everyone anyway.

People make excuses for carrying on singing songs they know will get us in bother. Start addressing those excuses, render them pointless. GIVE something to a support that feels besieged on all sides by defending them where possible, pushing their complaints when others are given free reign, working along side them rather than sitting in an office making proclamations.

Fair enough mate, picked you up wrong amongst the plethora of posts on this subject - many clearly claiming some of our support cannot understand what's right and what is wrong.

Engagement of the support from the Club is clearly a good thing. Regardless of the current situation, regardless of how we as a fanbase feel we are being besieged. Any serious engagement has to be a good thing. Equally the support need to understand the position the Club find themselves in. They cannot and will not defend the singing of these songs (if we stick to that line for now). There is no defence, they breach UEFA guidelines on Racist and Discriminatory Action (Article 14).

I see the 'engagement' issue as an important step forward but I don't see it as a solution to the particular problem that has reared its head with the UEFA sanctions today. I think there is merit in repeating your post once the 'storm' over today's sanction has passed or it will veer off track somewhat.
 
In my opinion the club needs to be clear and come out and say exactly what can't be sung.

For example TBB, super Rangers chant, any add ons about 19th Century Terrorists, Bobby Sands etc

It needs to be absolutely clear. Get round the table with Club 1872, Union Bears etc

We then need to employ a zero tolerance policy. Anyone caught singing these chants is banned for life etc.

We need to sort this out once and for all
 
We dropped the Billy Boys from the songbook before, we can do it again. Because we weren’t in Europe for years, it was wrongly allowed to creep back in again and become acceptable.

The Club have done enough so far, and if it persists they will act further by refusing away tickets and issuing life bans for supporters. That’s the position fans are putting the Club in, its up to us whether we want that. We know the inevitable consequences.

If we don’t sing bigoted songs, FARE can report as much as they like, it won’t do anything. They can’t touch us.

Ultimately, this comes down to how much you love Rangers.
Mate your missing the point here.
These people are insatiable.
There will always be something they find offensive.
It’s because of who we are that they do it.
The sooner you realise that the better. they are now trying to divide and conquer. We must stand united, the board, the fans, the team.
 
An open letter is a letter that is published on a public forum, newspaper etc. It is addressed to a particular person but is intended for the general reader, usually in order to protest or give an opinion about something.

A standard one would be to send it privately to the club with nobody else in the public able to opine.

I was kind of being half sarcastic, but thanks anyway. The word 'opine' should be used more often :D
 
Ffs mate, Robertson is an employee of the club and will be guided by the board as to when (if it's him or someone higher) a statement will be made.

This isn't Robertson's fault, unless of course he was caught on camera singing the BBs or 50p flute song.

The blame firmly lies with the supporters.

Yes but we need to get someone in front of a camera to explain what's going on here. Talksport news just said it's because of racism from fans so the entire UK thinks we're making monkey chants and calling players all sorts.
 
Mate your missing the point here.
These people are insatiable.
There will always be something they find offensive.
It’s because of who we are that they do it.
The sooner you realise that the better. they are now trying to divide and conquer. We must stand united, the board, the fans, the team.
You’re missing the point.

Sing these songs and you harm our club.

That is unequivocal.

If you can’t stop singing them then stay away from Rangers European games.
 
Gerry McNee raised it on the radio but you arent naive enough to believe its only a few songs they're after. They want WATP banned along with the Sash and Derrys Walls to name just a few. The point is Rangers need to start discussing this with fans and get an agreement in place that satisfies eufa and SFA etc.

You really aren't doing anyone any favours by trying to say that UEFA are punishing us for singing WATP and FF. All you're doing is giving succor to some who will stick their head in the sand and say "see, it wasn't me singing The Billy Boys that caused this, it was everyone singing The Blue Sea of Ibrox!"
 
Fair enough mate, picked you up wrong amongst the plethora of posts on this subject - many clearly claiming some of our support cannot understand what's right and what is wrong.

Engagement of the support from the Club is clearly a good thing. Regardless of the current situation, regardless of how we as a fanbase feel we are being besieged. Any serious engagement has to be a good thing. Equally the support need to understand the position the Club find themselves in. They cannot and will not defend the singing of these songs (if we stick to that line for now). There is no defence, they breach UEFA guidelines on Racist and Discriminatory Action (Article 14).

I see the 'engagement' issue as an important step forward but I don't see it as a solution to the particular problem that has reared its head with the UEFA sanctions today. I think there is merit in repeating your post once the 'storm' over today's sanction has passed or it will veer off track somewhat.

It is a difficult subject and even more so when people are het up. I am genuinely concerned that we are already out of Europe now, given we have played 5 matches since the one we have been sanctioned for.

Not one Rangers board has bothered to engage the support over this and no matter how many genuine concerns we have as a fan base, no hint of help has come to us. That needs to change and it is only the board who can do that.
 
We almost sing these “offensive” songs in a kind of defiance, defiance of the fact we are singled out and punished unfairly.
AS a suport we will need to toe the party line and alter the words to some songs for as long as the world is in an overly PC state.
 
It is a difficult subject and even more so when people are het up. I am genuinely concerned that we are already out of Europe now, given we have played 5 matches since the one we have been sanctioned for.

Not one Rangers board has bothered to engage the support over this and no matter how many genuine concerns we have as a fan base, no hint of help has come to us. That needs to change and it is only the board who can do that.

That is a huge worry for me as well. Given the time that has passed since the St Josephs game I am kind of hoping that this is a 'catch-all' sanction that covers all the previous games. I suspect I may be being optimistic in that hope though.:(
 
YOU need to address this, you need to get ahead of it and you need to show some leadership.

We have supporters who are stuck in the past, we have others who are frustrated and we have all of us who are suffering a skewed and imbalanced level of reporting and sanction.

We have a sizeable number of supporters who will not stop the behaviour that is landing us in bother because they are well aware of the double standards that are at play and see themselves not as bigots, but as people taking a stand against the bigotry they face.

Through all of my time supporting the club, well over 30 years, we have not once had a sensible and adult discussion that involves the club and the support, a forum where you can tell us explicitly, in plain English, what is not acceptable (although I agree 100% if you point out that it should be bloody obvious to anyone with half a brain) and where the support can tell you explicitly what our issues are and the double standards we face.

If you want the singing to stop, you need to engage our support, you need to talk to us and you need to ask us a simple question: what can we do to help you. If you treat this as an 'us and them' situation, you will simply find people retreating further behind their lines, carrying on their behaviour, but if you ask them what needs to happen for them to stop, you might find a healthier relationship with the support and far better results. I think you will also be shocked at the answers you get.

We need you to work with us, not sit in your tower and try to dictate. It did not work for ANY previous board and it will not work for you. You need to work with us here, stand up for us far more than you do.
Are our fan illiterate, don't they understand right from wrong? Blaming the board is just passing the buck. It is the fans who are singing. It is the fans that must stop.
 
This pretty much captures it. 19th Century Terrorist, Pope, Sands etc - its not really difficult to figure out. Do we really need someone to tell us to stop this stuff? Really?
That's offensive not racism at most religious discrimination. The charge is racist behaviour the same as the Russian and Eastern European neo nazis.
 
Just listened to the H&H daily update and fully agree with the sentiment on there.

Is this punishment fair? No, clearly. Thousands of good, innocent Rangers fans are going to miss out on the Legia game through no fault of their own. Does the punishment fit the alleged 'crime'? Absolutely not. Are other clubs (one in particular) getting away with similar and worse, and going to continue to get away with similar and worse? Yes, undoubtedly (because they have far more political and media clout than us) but if we want to continue to participate in Uefa competition then it's their baw and we need to play by their rules. Simple! Now there's going to be a strict zero tolerance approach among stewards and police at our games They are going to be oppressive as hell and innocent fans are going to end up caught up in this, but this is the reality

The frustrating thing is, this is relatively simple to remedy. The club must engage with the support on the level. Make it absolutely crystal clear what is and isn't allowed but do so on the level with the support rather than dictating to the support from on high. Make it absolutely clear that, yes, this is most unfair and we are definitely being targeted but it's also irrelevant because it's Uefa's rules and we have to comply. Constant reminders that there are loads of Rangers songs. Sing and chant about Rangers and Rangers only. That's it. Over the years/decades Rangers fans have lead the way in creating great football chants and songs. We have a relatively large songbook full of traditional Rangers songs that are about Rangers only. Then there's songs for individual players. Stick to them and them only and there's no problem.

That said, will we continue to be targeted by FARE? Without doubt. They are represented at all our European games. Every single one. Again, it's irrelevant because its Uefa's rules and we have to comply, and if we stick to Rangers songs only then it makes it far more difficult for them to hurt us.

So that's it then. Just sing songs about Rangers and Rangers only. The gaffer has made the point a number of times about the difference a good atmosphere makes to team performance, and did so again post match last night. We can quite easily do this without falling foul of Uefa's rules. I also think the lack of political and media clout on our side compared to the filth is something that the club is going to have to address eventually. A medium to long term effective strategy is needed on this, and again the club should engage with the fans on this matter.
 
I hate those FBs with a passion, but a football match is not the place to vent those, feelings, loved belting out the party tunes in the 60s,70s,80s and into the 90s but the world has moved on and so must we.
 
Absolutely correct but the paucity of our leadership gives me no confidence. Robertson should be I’m front of a TV camera right now. He is worse than a man down. Absolutely useless.
It wouldn’t surprise me mate if Gerard takes the bull by the horns and goes before the cameras.
It might take him to threaten to leave to have an effect
 
Look mate I have to be honest and say I can’t ever see the old song book going away. But for now it needs dropped for our European games and pronto.
It can be stopped.Just stop the songs which have Fu@k the Pope and 19th Century Terrorist in it.It really us that simple.We have loads of songs that dont have these words in them.I really dont see what's hard about this.Its things like this that could drive the manager away.Think about that for a minute.
 
That's offensive not racism at most religious discrimination. The charge is racist behaviour the same as the Russian and Eastern European neo nazis.

The proper term for the charges we faced is 'Racist and Discriminatory Conduct' - only nobody has bothered to use that rather misleading and long-winded term.

This is how UEFA define 'Racist and Discriminatory Conduct'.

Any person under the scope of Article 3 who insults the human dignity of a person or group of persons on whatever grounds, including skin colour, race, religion, ethnic origin, gender or sexual orientation, incurs a suspension lasting at least ten matches or a specified period of time, or any other appropriate sanction.

It goes, as you can see, way beyond what most of us would term 'racist'.

Article 14 in their Regs:

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFile...CompDisCases/02/60/83/56/2608356_DOWNLOAD.pdf
 
The Sash, Derry’s Walls and Follow Follow (with no words changed) are fine to sing. None of them fit under those rules that I laid out above.

WATP and Rule Britannia are also fine.

This isn’t difficult. Apply the rules.

They are fine UNTIL some faceless little toad, themselves engulfed in bigotry, decide otherwise?
 
They are fine UNTIL some faceless little toad, themselves engulfed in bigotry, decide otherwise?
Then they’ll have to prove that these songs are bigoted, which will fail, because they are not.

This is very black and white. We can only deal with that once we sort our own shit out.
 
Right numbskull here’s a list

The 50p flute song for starters

The Billy Boys or any song that calls people 19th Century Terrorist Bastards

Follow Follow when you pollute it with Fcuk the Pope and the Vatican

Any song about the UVF or the UDA

I’ve been following home and away for decades so please don’t doubt my loyalties. This is not complicated, we need to stop it now. The songs at Kilmarnock we’re full of the stuff mentioned yet we have some fantastic old and new songs and chants that don’t have the garbage in them.

Let’s clean this up and let’s start on Sunday.


UVF songs are fine mate, as the majority of them refer to WW1.
 
That’s not whataboutery, it’s consistency, transparency and even-handedness. Whataboutery is them running about being offended and complaining in the first place.

The very word 'whataboutery' needs extinguished from the English language!

A term used solely to shut down debate over even handedness and consistency.
 
The board need to come out and be very, very clear on the evidence that has come forward. The songs mentioned and the people responsible. Those people are then told never to come back to Ibrox - not just for Thursday. Just don't come back if you want to hurt the club.

The board need to be all over this and constant though. We need to be seen to be taking the correct action - whatever that is.

As for FARE. They need to be stomped all over. They need to be investigated to see where their involvement is coming from and what their agenda actually is. Also, needs to be made clear why they have such a loud voice within UEFA.

Our board need to get fucking angry and bloody vocal. This is with fans who want to hurt the club. With FARE for their one sided reporting and with UEFA for their instant action against us whilst being massively lenient on other offenders.

Why is no one talking up about (spelling might be wonky) Asma Amir the Ex Bimbo from Bearsden who was married to the guy from Fare, who slanged us off something rotten. To be fair what should we expect she works on the Biased Broadcasting Corporations Radio Four.
 
Then they’ll have to prove that these songs are bigoted, which will fail, because they are not.

This is very black and white. We can only deal with that once we sort our own shit out.

Like they have proven that TBB is?

19th Century Terrorist does not mean Roman Catholic, yet they have defined it as so. Ergo TBB is sectarian.
 
Like they have proven that TBB is?

19th Century Terrorist does not mean Roman Catholic, yet they have defined it as so.
Someone really ought to tell the dictionary people then.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/19th Century Terrorist
 
The Sash, Derry’s Walls and Follow Follow (with no words changed) are fine to sing. None of them fit under those rules that I laid out above.

WATP and Rule Britannia are also fine.

This isn’t difficult. Apply the rules.

I think you'll find they'll start asking why we sing 'orange' songs at a football match? You know we're not supposed to bring religion into sport. Just like we aint allowed to have religious schools.
 
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