FARE is anything but

blueballs

blueballs

Well-Known Member
As a support, were to blame for singing the songs, keeping the add ons and ignoring previous warnings.

As a club, we should question why FARE seek to come to every Rangers European match but not have the same interest for any other team.

As much as the first points true and we shouldn't kid ourselves nor deny the fact, it's just as true this organisation has an agenda against Rangers which is easily pursued under the guise of being arbiter on suitable songs. Do we need to allow them into Ibrox (cant think why we do) and if not suggest they don't come back till parity of visits is shared across the European competitions
 
Ironically named like Green and Whyte, key figures supporters of a certain club in the East end of Glasgow.

I feel like we’ve seen this movie before.
 
Genuine questions:

1) What gives them their legitimacy?
2) How do we highlight and combat their obvious bias?
3) Is it possible to crowdsource the neccesary skills and recources to set up an alternative?
4) How do we exhert greater influence in UEFA?

We need to start thinking longer term and widening our sphere of influence.

This can all be done in tandem with stopping singing the F word.
 
Blues and Royals said:
Yes, but also because we exist.
Click to expand...

As a support we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and start taking responsibility for it. The rules are you can't sing sectarian songs, we sing sectarian songs that's why we're being punished.

Once our nose is clean we can highlight others who deserve punishment, and we'll have a lot more legitimacy when doing so.
 
Ibroxroar said:
Stop singing the sectarian songs and we will not be punished. Simple really but bigots can't change and always find excuses.
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The BBC article clearly states reported for "Racism - which includes sectarian singing".

In all the debate on the message board today, I'm perplexed that nobody is questioning the use of that word Racism.

We simply can't have that tag labelled against us without it being clarified.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
They come because we sing!

The Billy Boys
Super Rangers
Build my gallows - add ons
Andy Halliday hates the pope and IRA
Tiffany - we hate catholics
F*ck even Simply the Best has add-ons.

If FARE are waging war against us it's because we give them so much ammunition.
Click to expand...

I agree with you regarding the songs, we need to cut it out. But the other mob sing songs about terrorists, phuck the Queen, and wave offensive banners. Why are they not waging war on them?
 
AriseSirWalter said:
They come because we sing!

The Billy Boys
Super Rangers
Build my gallows - add ons
Andy Halliday hates the pope and IRA
Tiffany - we hate catholics
F*ck even Simply the Best has add-ons.

If FARE are waging war against us it's because we give them so much ammunition.
Click to expand...

Don’t be so naive.

We could sing nursery rhymes and they’d be scrutinising us to the nth degree.

An organisation run by Celtic supporters shouldn’t be scrutinising anything we do, guilty or not.
 
punksnotdead said:
I agree with you regarding the songs, we need to cut it out. But the other mob sing songs about terrorists, phuck the Queen, and wave offensive banners. Why are they not waging war on them?
Click to expand...

You are right, I totally agree, you wont find a Rangers fan who doesn't. But that's a battle for another day, first and foremost we have to make sure that we give UEFA absolutely no reason to punish us.

It's detrimental to our chances of success, and that's what we all crave more than anything, once that issue has been resolved we can then highlight the hypocrisy that other clubs are going unpunished but regardless of that we need to stop the singing.
 
:rolleyes: Well Then.........


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...branded-racist-calling-Asian-fan-coconut.html

Boss of football's anti-racism group is branded a racist after calling Asian fan a 'coconut'

He received a staggering reply from Mr Powar, who used Twitter's private messaging function tocontact Mr Singh, which said: 'Get lost Singh. Have no false consciousness. Don't be a coconut.'

A 'coconut' is an extremely derogatory term used to accuse someone of betraying their heritage by pandering to 'white' opinion.

It stems from a coconut being brown on the outside and white on the inside.
 
Coda said:
Don’t be so naive.

We could sing nursery rhymes and they’d be scrutinising us to the nth degree.

An organisation run by Celtic supporters shouldn’t be scrutinising anything we do, guilty or not.
Click to expand...

I'm not being naive, I'm being pragmatic. The fact is if we sing songs the club is going to be punished, that is undeniable, so first and foremost we must stop singing the songs.

Once we have done that then the club can work with UEFA to highlight any issues with FARE. Our attitude is playing right into the hands of people who want to hurt us.
 
From the FARE website

Which matches are monitored?
Members of the Fare team assess all international matches in Europe for the likelihood of discriminatory behavior and send observers to matches that we identify as a risk for potentially high levels of racism, extreme nationalism, xenophobia, antisemitism or homophobia.
The assessment is made on the basis of previous reports received by Fare and an evaluation into the nature of the fixture in its socio-cultural context.
Fare does not send observers to domestic league fixtures. However we receive reports through the media( in particular Tom English, BBC Radio Scotland and Clyde SSB), from members and incoming reports, which help us to develop a picture.
 
DoubleWhopper said:
The BBC article clearly states reported for "Racism - which includes sectarian singing".

In all the debate on the message board today, I'm perplexed that nobody is questioning the use of that word Racism.

We simply can't have that tag labelled against us without it being clarified.
Click to expand...

Really? It’s been questioned loads of times.

The proper term for the charges we faced is 'Racist and Discriminatory Conduct' - only nobody has bothered to use that rather misleading and long-winded term.

This is how UEFA define 'Racist and Discriminatory Conduct'.

Any person under the scope of Article 3 who insults the human dignity of a person or group of persons on whatever grounds, including skin colour, race, religion, ethnic origin, gender or sexual orientation, incurs a suspension lasting at least ten matches or a specified period of time, or any other appropriate sanction.

It goes, as you can see, way beyond what most of us would term 'racist'.

Article 14 in their Regs:

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFile...CompDisCases/02/60/83/56/2608356_DOWNLOAD.pdf
 
AriseSirWalter said:
You are right, I totally agree, you wont find a Rangers fan who doesn't. But that's a battle for another day, first and foremost we have to make sure that we give UEFA absolutely no reason to punish us.

It's detrimental to our chances of success, and that's what we all crave more than anything, once that issue has been resolved we can then highlight the hypocrisy that other clubs are going unpunished but regardless of that we need to stop the singing.
Click to expand...

I agree the songs that can hurt us need to stop. However, I think it would be an easier pill to swallow for some if they knew that as soon as our own house is in order the club won't be slow in asking about the different treatment the other mob gets.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
I'm not being naive, I'm being pragmatic. The fact is if we sing songs the club is going to be punished, that is undeniable, so first and foremost we must stop singing the songs.

Once we have done that then the club can work with UEFA to highlight any issues with FARE. Our attitude is playing right into the hands of people who want to hurt us.
Click to expand...

I think 99% of the support are on board with the idea of stopping the singing.

But your initial post insinuated that FARE are only doing their job because we allow them to. FARE quite obviously target our club, and that can’t allow to continue unchallenged. No club could reasonable deal with the scrutiny that they put on us.

I ultimately have no issue with being monitored, but it simply cannot be by a company run by Celtic fans. We’ve got no chance of parity in that regard.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
They come because we sing!

The Billy Boys
Super Rangers
Build my gallows - add ons
Andy Halliday hates the pope and IRA
Tiffany - we hate catholics
F*ck even Simply the Best has add-ons.

If FARE are waging war against us it's because we give them so much ammunition.
Click to expand...
As per my OP, I agree. We, the support, are to blame.

But why don't the group who report us go to other clubs 'who sing'?
 
What other clubs in Europe have noFare been successful in cliping to uefa?
Is there a list, and what were the punishments?
 
AriseSirWalter said:
They come because we sing!

The Billy Boys
Super Rangers
Build my gallows - add ons
Andy Halliday hates the pope and IRA
Tiffany - we hate catholics
F*ck even Simply the Best has add-ons.

If FARE are waging war against us it's because we give them so much ammunition.
Click to expand...

Dont forget Follow Follow. Been an open goal for years. It was always going to be a matter of when.
 
blueballs said:
As a support, were to blame for singing the songs, keeping the add ons and ignoring previous warnings.

As a club, we should question why FARE seek to come to every Rangers European match but not have the same interest for any other team.

As much as the first points true and we shouldn't kid ourselves nor deny the fact, it's just as true this organisation has an agenda against Rangers which is easily pursued under the guise of being arbiter on suitable songs. Do we need to allow them into Ibrox (cant think why we do) and if not suggest they don't come back till parity of visits is shared across the European competitions
Click to expand...
I agree, but call it as it is.
Fair have a sectarian, bigoted and racist agenda against us.

Our club should absolutely start dishing out 3 game, 19 game, season long bans to people who continue to get us into trouble, but as a club and support we should go after these bastards until they are shut down.
 
Coda said:
I think 99% of the support are on board with the idea of stopping the singing.

But your initial post insinuated that FARE are only doing their job because we allow them to. FARE quite obviously target our club, and that can’t allow to continue unchallenged. No club could reasonable deal with the scrutiny that they put on us.

I ultimately have no issue with being monitored, but it simply cannot be by a company run by Celtic fans. We’ve got no chance of parity in that regard.
Click to expand...

With all due respect mate, that's nonsense.

I believe there are people in FARE that would like to see as much damage as possible being done to our Club but they are not making it up, we do sing sectarian songs which is breaking UEFA rules so that's why we're being punished.

I don't think it's outwith the realms of possibility that some bigoted cel'ic fan works for FARE and would try and make stuff up if we weren't singing but if that happens then the Club would have ammunition to fight them but as things stand we don't because it's clear to everyone that we do sing those songs.

Cel'ic fans have clearly worked their way into positions of influence at FARE, SFA, SPL, media and they are in a position to make our lives difficult, they have done that by being smart about it and playing the long game. We really need to do the same and focusing effort on 'aye but look at what they've done' isn't boxing clever.

This isn't about Rangers and cel'ic, UEFA couldn't give a f*ck about that, if we break the rules they will punish us it's as simple as that.
 
blueballs said:
As per my OP, I agree. We, the support, are to blame.

But why don't the group who report us go to other clubs 'who sing'?
Click to expand...

That's an argument for another day, as a support we have brought a clear and present danger to the door of our Club and we need to fix that as a matter of priority before we go on to fight other battles.

The fact that cel'ic are being ignored isn't something that should sidetrack us from doing the right thing by Rangers.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
I'm not being naive, I'm being pragmatic. The fact is if we sing songs the club is going to be punished, that is undeniable, so first and foremost we must stop singing the songs.

Once we have done that then the club can work with UEFA to highlight any issues with FARE. Our attitude is playing right into the hands of people who want to hurt us.
Click to expand...
You are being naive I’m afraid.

The people determined to get us into trouble have literally changed the meaning I feel a word from “Irish republican” to a racist slur. I don’t know what they’ll move onto next, but they will find another target. Maybe it’ll be ‘we are the people’, maybe it’ll be God Save the Queen. I don’t know. But you’re utterly naive if you think we just cut out a couple of words / songs and they’ll stop coming after us.

Yes, TBB is lost forever. Yes the word 19th Century Terrorist should now absolutely never be heard at Ibrox again. But don’t kid yourself that would be the end of it.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
They come because we sing!

The Billy Boys
Super Rangers
Build my gallows - add ons
Andy Halliday hates the pope and IRA
Tiffany - we hate catholics
F*ck even Simply the Best has add-ons.

If FARE are waging war against us it's because we give them so much ammunition.
Click to expand...

Why don't they chase the bheggars for their song book on European nights?
 
LJ50 said:
You are being naive I’m afraid.

The people determined to get us into trouble have literally changed the meaning I feel a word from “Irish republican” to a racist slur. I don’t know what they’ll move onto next, but they will find another target. Maybe it’ll be ‘we are the people’, maybe it’ll be God Save the Queen. I don’t know. But you’re utterly naive if you think we just cut out a couple of words / songs and they’ll stop coming after us.

Yes, TBB is lost forever. Yes the word 19th Century Terrorist should now absolutely never be heard at Ibrox again. But don’t kid yourself that would be the end of it.
Click to expand...

Look at my posts, not once have I said that 'that would be the end of it' in a number of them I've acknowledged that FARE is an issue that we need to tackle but it's for another day. First and foremost we need to stop singing songs that break the rules, once we do that we take the legs from under them, they can't make up rules just for us.

We're breaking rules that's why we're being punished.

How can they say that God Save the Queen or We are the People is sectarian? It's delusional.
 
LJ50 said:
You are being naive I’m afraid.

The people determined to get us into trouble have literally changed the meaning I feel a word from “Irish republican” to a racist slur. I don’t know what they’ll move onto next, but they will find another target. Maybe it’ll be ‘we are the people’, maybe it’ll be God Save the Queen. I don’t know. But you’re utterly naive if you think we just cut out a couple of words / songs and they’ll stop coming after us.

Yes, TBB is lost forever. Yes the word 19th Century Terrorist should now absolutely never be heard at Ibrox again. But don’t kid yourself that would be the end of it.
Click to expand...
Continuing to sing 'God Save the Queen' or 'We are the People' is a position worth defending. 'The Billy Boys' is certainly not.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
Why don't they chase the bheggars for their song book on European nights?
Click to expand...

I don't know, but if I end up in court on a charge of murder I'm not going to be saying to the judge 'aye but OJ didn't get punished'.

The Club will be in a position to highlight the hypocrisy once the fans stop the singing - I'm not saying they will but right now we don't have a leg to stand on and everyone knows it.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
Look at my posts, not once have I said that 'that would be the end of it' in a number of them I've acknowledged that FARE is an issue that we need to tackle but it's for another day. First and foremost we need to stop singing songs that break the rules, once we do that we take the legs from under them, they can't make up rules just for us.

We're breaking rules that's why we're being punished.

How can they say that God Save the Queen or We are the People is sectarian? It's delusional.
Click to expand...
Of course they’re delusional. It’s the same people who pretend the fucking Bouncy is about jumping on Catholic’s heads. You think they won’t claim WATP is a chant of religious supremacy and GSTQ is anti-Catholic as she’s the head of the CoE? They’ll be as disingenuous as we can imagine, they’ll argue black is white and night is day.

They don’t come after us for the songs we sing, they’re just the vehicle of attack. You are naive if you think otherwise.

That doesn’t make some of the songs defensible (I absolutely fucking hate that Tiffany disgrace, but I’ve never heard it at Ibrox), but list whatever songs you like, they’re all fair game for the people who hate us.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
I don't know, but if I end up in court on a charge of murder I'm not going to be saying to the judge 'aye but OJ didn't get punished'.

The Club will be in a position to highlight the hypocrisy once the fans stop the singing - I'm not saying they will but right now we don't have a leg to stand on and everyone knows it.
Click to expand...

They always get away with it. One rule for one (Rangers).

Bollocks, give us a level playing field.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
I don't know, but if I end up in court on a charge of murder I'm not going to be saying to the judge 'aye but OJ didn't get punished'.

The Club will be in a position to highlight the hypocrisy once the fans stop the singing - I'm not saying they will but right now we don't have a leg to stand on and everyone knows it.
Click to expand...
But in fairness mate, you say FARE come because we sing yet don't want to consider why they don't do likewise elsewhere

Its akin to saying the Polis will sit in a pub cause they know someone will get drunk. Youd certainly be legitimate in querying the use of time and would probably tell them to do one and visit the drunks in the next pub along
 
LJ50 said:
Of course they’re delusional. It’s the same people who pretend the fucking Bouncy is about jumping on Catholic’s heads. You think they won’t claim WATP is a chant of religious supremacy and GSTQ is anti-Catholic as she’s the head of the CoE? They’ll be as disingenuous as we can imagine, they’ll argue black is white and night is day.

They don’t come after us for the songs we sing, they’re just the vehicle of attack. You are naive if you think otherwise.

That doesn’t make some of the songs defensible (I absolutely fucking hate that Tiffany disgrace, but I’ve never heard it at Ibrox), but list whatever songs you like, they’re all fair game for the people who hate us.
Click to expand...

GSTQ is a national anthem, there is no way UEFA is going to punish us for singing that and WATP isn't against anyone it's a song that's taken from the line 'We are the people who follow the boys in blue' the correct lyrics to Hello Hello (A Goal, A Goal). It's deranged cel'ic fans and internet bampots that claim these songs as offensive not UEFA.

The Club, I'm sure, would defend any charges brought against us for singing those songs or any other non-offensive songs. But there is no defending sectarian singing and pointing to others who also sing sectarian songs is a piss poor defence.

We're big boys, time to put our big boy pants on accept responsibility for the trouble we've brought to our Club's door and make sure that we fix it. Once we've done that we can tackle the issue of FARE.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
Look at my posts, not once have I said that 'that would be the end of it' in a number of them I've acknowledged that FARE is an issue that we need to tackle but it's for another day. First and foremost we need to stop singing songs that break the rules, once we do that we take the legs from under them, they can't make up rules just for us.

We're breaking rules that's why we're being punished.

How can they say that God Save the Queen or We are the People is sectarian? It's delusional.
Click to expand...

In the same way that they can ban the Billy Boys, even if we remove the offensive lyrics.
 
Coda said:
In the same way that they can ban the Billy Boys, even if we remove the offensive lyrics.
Click to expand...

Please explain? The billy boys in all forms is banned because it has the line 'we're up to our knees in 19th Century Terrorist blood' a line that would offend a lot of non-19th Century Terrorist people.
 
LJ50 said:
Of course they’re delusional. It’s the same people who pretend the fucking Bouncy is about jumping on Catholic’s heads. You think they won’t claim WATP is a chant of religious supremacy and GSTQ is anti-Catholic as she’s the head of the CoE? They’ll be as disingenuous as we can imagine, they’ll argue black is white and night is day.

They don’t come after us for the songs we sing, they’re just the vehicle of attack. You are naive if you think otherwise.

That doesn’t make some of the songs defensible (I absolutely fucking hate that Tiffany disgrace, but I’ve never heard it at Ibrox), but list whatever songs you like, they’re all fair game for the people who hate us.
Click to expand...
I agree completely but there's only one way to help quell the appetite to discredit us and that's to clean up our act as best we can.
To just say that no matter what we do we'll still be clobbered so we might just as well carry isn't any kind of solution at all.
I'm not saying you're suggesting "just carrying on as before" but that's the way your argument could be misconstrued.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
Please explain? The billy boys in all forms is banned because it has the line 'we're up to our knees in 19th Century Terrorist blood' a line that would offend a lot of non-19th Century Terrorist people.
Click to expand...

If we change that line, the song is still banned. David Edgar has mentioned as much on the podcast.
 
Coda said:
If we change that line, the song is still banned. David Edgar has mentioned as much on the podcast.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know. It's banned because we were singing the line. TBB is gone, that battle is lost, what we're discussing is whether or not GSTQ and WATP would become legitimate targets and I'm saying that it's ridiculous to think that the Club would be punished for us singing those songs.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
What do you suggest, keep singing the songs until cel'ic are punished?

I agree others aren't being treated to the same standard but we must abide by the rules.
Click to expand...
You know, it's not that I'm disagreeing with things your saying....its just seeming like your taking the high ground and being too dismissive of others points.

You say we need to be big boys, and that's true. It's the supports fault. We are to blame.

But you also sarcastically ask if the suggestion is we keep singing till Celtic gets punished. Of course not. I mean, seriously?

The suggestion is two fold response, which where we differ. It's not the case we need to get our house in order and then go far FARE; if you concede theres something to go for, it's done simultaneously.

Yes, we need to be big boys and big boys can therefore sort out the problem. So the club and fans accept fault and fix it. At the SAME time we publicly call out the unparalleled fixation FARE have with us.

We need to be better, but also wiser to what's going on
 
AriseSirWalter said:
Yes, I know. It's banned because we were singing the line. TBB is gone, that battle is lost, what we're discussing is whether or not GSTQ and WATP would become legitimate targets and I'm saying that it's ridiculous to think that the Club would be punished for us singing those songs.
Click to expand...

You’re missing the point. Something being banned regardless of content should have alarm bells ringing. If we changed TBB to a family friendly version, UEFA would still ban it. Can you not see the issue there and how that opens a can of worms for other songs?
 
Walters80 said:
:rolleyes: Well Then.........


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...branded-racist-calling-Asian-fan-coconut.html

Boss of football's anti-racism group is branded a racist after calling Asian fan a 'coconut'

He received a staggering reply from Mr Powar, who used Twitter's private messaging function tocontact Mr Singh, which said: 'Get lost Singh. Have no false consciousness. Don't be a coconut.'

A 'coconut' is an extremely derogatory term used to accuse someone of betraying their heritage by pandering to 'white' opinion.

It stems from a coconut being brown on the outside and white on the inside.
Click to expand...

So we have a racist calling us out for being sectarian racists.

Kind of sums up UEFA and their double standards. We need to get this story back out on Social Media.

A banner for this would be a good idea for Thursday.

Call these scumbags out.
 
AriseSirWalter said:
As a support we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and start taking responsibility for it. The rules are you can't sing sectarian songs, we sing sectarian songs that's why we're being punished.

Once our nose is clean we can highlight others who deserve punishment, and we'll have a lot more legitimacy when doing so.
Click to expand...

Alas it doesn’t work like that. We have nobody in authority to highlight the other lot, which then leaves sole responsibility down to the club. Which means goodnight Vienna,
 
I'm not defending the songs nor those who sing them. It's bloody stupid, reckless even, and it's cost us big this time. But the club should be asking questions about the "impartiality" of FARE and the well-known mentally challenged sympathies of that organisation. It's like a bunch of Liverpool fans preying on Manchester United or Barcelona on Real Madrid. None of those clubs would let it go without pointing it out yet Rangers take it every time. They do us up like a kipper and it's high time the club was questioning FARE and why they only seem to exist to do Rangers and no one else.
 
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