Who is VAR for?

Best thing since sliced bread. Nothing worse than losing games through ref errors. I gave up fixed odds for that very reason. Imagine losing/drawing our last game of the season to a ref error, a game that would've given us 55 ! VAR would've given us a pen against St J and proved their 'goal' wasn't.
 
Best thing since sliced bread. Nothing worse than losing games through ref errors. I gave up fixed odds for that very reason. Imagine losing/drawing our last game of the season to a ref error, a game that would've given us 55 ! VAR would've given us a pen against St J and proved their 'goal' wasn't.

Even though it's not fixing the errors of the game?
 
It would only help with offsides or whether a ball is over the line. There’s no guarantee we’d benefit as we’d be relying on a referee in a room deciding what to review.

So you don't think we'd have got that penalty on Sunday?
 
Here's the bottom line. Liverpool and man city fought ot out to the last because they were the best teams by a distance,the 3 who went down did because they were the worst. Celtic won the league because they were the most consistent team in the league and rangers couldn't capitalise on their chance. Results against kilmarnock alone prove that.
No var involved,the best team will come out on top.
 
So you don't think we'd have got that penalty on Sunday?
If we’d use it the same way it’s being used in England then it’s a good chance we wouldn’t.

Even if VAR is introduced there will still be some incidents not looked at or wrong decisions made.
 
I agree a clear offside is absolute, but I don't think you can confirm factually if that Spurs goal was offside. I don't think there is any way to guarantee that the correct call was made. By the FAs own admission there is a margin for error.

In which case it absolutely should be applied to benefit the attacker if the game has played on and a goal been scored IMHO.
 
It's the first step towards adverts during breaks in play.

2 x 45 mins restricts potential ad revenue.

It helps crack the US, a market that football still struggles to gain decent market share.

years ago before the inter-web;)
I watched an FA Cup Final in a bar in DC, when the ball went out or long injuries they immediately went to 'commercials",fcuking infuriating!
VAR will give them an opportunity to do the same.
Part of Americanization/Globalization, sucks for the fan good for business!
A 60 minutes NFL game take between 3-4 hours! Think of the opportunity for commercials in a 'soccer game' that long!
 
Best thing since sliced bread. Nothing worse than losing games through ref errors. I gave up fixed odds for that very reason. Imagine losing/drawing our last game of the season to a ref error, a game that would've given us 55 ! VAR would've given us a pen against St J and proved their 'goal' wasn't.

Possibly, there were still plenty of pundits who seemed to think it was a goal despite evidence to the contrary. We'd have lost the last goal as well. I'm certain that VAR would be selectively applied in Scotland and certainly don't think we'd do as well out of it as others on here seem to believe.
 
I agree a clear offside is absolute, but I don't think you can confirm factually if that Spurs goal was offside. I don't think there is any way to guarantee that the correct call was made. By the FAs own admission there is a margin for error.

If there is a 'margin for error' and VAR reduces that margin for error - which is its primary purpose after all - is that not a good thing?

I seem to recall in the build-up to the last World Cup the stat that came out was that referees got around 94% of calls correct. With VAR they were hitting 97%. That said, the recent - early - report on VAR in the EPL gave stats on how many decisions they'd looked at, how many were right/wrong and how many they'd missed. Crunching the numbers it came down to just 95% of the decisions looked at were called correctly after the use of VAR. That's not hitting the targets they hoped. Albeit it was from a comparatively small sample this early in the season.
 
VAR as in the technology is a great addition IMO.

The current rules surrounding it are awful.

The hand ball rule is a joke. Even if it's entirely accidental, if the ball touches a strikers hand then they score from it the goal is disallowed. In the very same instance if the ball brushes a defenders hand accidentally then it doesn't mean it's a penalty.

So you effectively have two different rules which is unfair.

The offside is because a piss take as well. Still not buying that Son was offside the other day in the Spurs game. It was far too close to call and you're relying on the technology being accurate within millimetres, the person controlling the lines in the VAR room getting it spot on and getting the EXACT millisecond where the ball left the players foot correct as well. Far too many variables for such a tight call.

Interesting stat I heard on MOTD last night though. I think they said so far VAR has been used 11 times to make a ruling on a goal...only once has it been positive, the other 10 times were to chop goals off.
 
You can bet your bottom dollar that in Asia, where the EPL have huge markets for their product, that the big betting syndicates will be betting huge amounts on the outcome of VAR.
 
If there is a 'margin for error' and VAR reduces that margin for error - which is its primary purpose after all - is that not a good thing?

I seem to recall in the build-up to the last World Cup the stat that came out was that referees got around 94% of calls correct. With VAR they were hitting 97%. That said, the recent - early - report on VAR gave stats on how many decisions they'd looked at, how many were right/wrong and how many they'd missed. Crunching the numbers it came down to just 95% of the decisions looked at were called correctly after the use of VAR. That's not hitting the targets they hoped. Albeit it was from a comparatively small sample this early in the season.

The VAR was implemented slightly differently in the World Cup. Infact, the World Cup actually put me in favour of VAR until I've seen it used in the EPL. The margin of error thing was to do with the frames of the cameras and being unable to confirm exactly when it left the players boot to determine the position of offside or not. It was something like millimetres, but when decisions are coming down to minute details then this is important.

It's been a disaster in the EPL so far with decisions being all over the place.
 
years ago before the inter-web;)
I watched an FA Cup Final in a bar in DC, when the ball went out or long injuries they immediately went to 'commercials",fcuking infuriating!
VAR will give them an opportunity to do the same.
Part of Americanization/Globalization, sucks for the fan good for business!
A 60 minutes NFL game take between 3-4 hours! Think of the opportunity for commercials in a 'soccer game' that long!
I think that's what's behind all of this. Football rulers have been told by tv companies that there's untold riches to be made with advertising around this thing,thats why they're determined to push it through. Good for the game or not. Money first, feck everything else.
No coincidence that all the commentators and anchor men in the studios are all for this.
Listening to talksport now. Jim white and natalie Sawyer are all for it,Danny Murphy isn't. That tells me enough
 
Also, I think fans within the stadiums should be kept up to date with what's going on...as it stands they need to check on their phones to see what the decision is / why it's happened.

No paying customer should be kept in the dark like that.

And who do you think would monitor the VAR ?

Thing is, they'd have nowhere to hide. Currently referees can give/not give blatant decisions and hide behind the fact that they never seen it. With VAR that excuse would be gone and they could be held accountable.
 
If there is a 'margin for error' and VAR reduces that margin for error - which is its primary purpose after all - is that not a good thing?

I seem to recall in the build-up to the last World Cup the stat that came out was that referees got around 94% of calls correct. With VAR they were hitting 97%. That said, the recent - early - report on VAR in the EPL gave stats on how many decisions they'd looked at, how many were right/wrong and how many they'd missed. Crunching the numbers it came down to just 95% of the decisions looked at were called correctly after the use of VAR. That's not hitting the targets they hoped. Albeit it was from a comparatively small sample this early in the season.
For that small percentage,is it really worth screwing the game up for.
Just shows to me that the vast majority of decisions are correct.
 
Also, I think fans within the stadiums should be kept up to date with what's going on...as it stands they need to check on their phones to see what the decision is / why it's happened.

No paying customer should be kept in the dark like that.

Most of the stadia have screens now. Not all admittedly. TV tends to show the message about VAR review and the outcome as it goes up on the screens and you can hear the noise from the fans in the background as the messages go up on the screens as well.
 
For that small percentage,is it really worth screwing the game up for.
Just shows to me that the vast majority of decisions are correct.

I guess it depends how much of a difference that small percentage makes to YOUR team. As someone has pointed out above, if we lose the league because a referee doesn't give a penalty as per the handball we had yesterday in Perth - that would, obviously, have been given by VAR - then this place would be in absolute meltdown. That one decision over the course of a season could, theoretically at least, have huge implications.
 
Match going fans hate it. Most, but not all, fans who can't attend matches hate it.

Is it to be part of the switch to pleasing worldwide armchair audience? Is it football as a Saturday night entertainment show?

It's already, within a year, nothing to do with checking clear and obvious errors. It's also utterly random : see Villa penalty claim at Emirates.

I haven't even touched on the farce of goals and emotions undone by millimetres, reviewed 10-15 times.

What is it supposed to be doing to improve football?
Not for the fans anyway, if you look at the stats for the EPL it has had a negative impact on games, ie ruling out more goals than actually improving the game.
I hate it ( as I’ve said on here many times)
 
Most of the stadia have screens now. Not all admittedly. TV tends to show the message about VAR review and the outcome and you can hear the noise from the fans in the background at the messages go up on the screens.
It totally ruins the moment when a goal is scored though, do you cheer and jump up and down or do you wait for VAR to tell you to, then the moment is gone.
The whole point of going to matches is to celebrate when the ball hits the net not a few minutes later when its checked.
 
Just listen to talksport. Jim white and natalie Sawyer doing as their paymasters want and sticking up for var. Danny murphy and the moose slating it.
I'll listen to the guys who speak for the punters.
 
Also, I think fans within the stadiums should be kept up to date with what's going on...as it stands they need to check on their phones to see what the decision is / why it's happened.

No paying customer should be kept in the dark like that.

Thing is, they'd have nowhere to hide. Currently referees can give/not give blatant decisions and hide behind the fact that they never seen it. With VAR that excuse would be gone and they could be held accountable.

Who would hold them 'accountable'. The SPL? The SFA? The Compliance Officer? The media? The referees cabal? (did I hear right that the referee in the studio at BT said the referee wasn't in a position to see the handball yesterday?)
 
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I guess it depends how much of a difference that small percentage makes to YOUR team. As someone has pointed out above, if we lose the league because a referee doesn't give a penalty as per the handball we had yesterday in Perth - that would, obviously, have been given by VAR - then this place would be in absolute meltdown. That one decision over the course of a season could, theoretically at least, have huge implications.
After watching the villa game,there is no way that we could have been guaranteed that penalty yesterday.
End of the day,the best team won and the only thing I would have is the goal line technology,which would have proved the decision correct and thus allowed rangers to go up the pitch and score.
 
I guess it depends how much of a difference that small percentage makes to YOUR team. As someone has pointed out above, if we lose the league because a referee doesn't give a penalty as per the handball we had yesterday in Perth - that would, obviously, have been given by VAR - then this place would be in absolute meltdown. That one decision over the course of a season could, theoretically at least, have huge implications.

You'd think...then you see the blatant hand ball that was missed in the Arsenal - Villa game yesterday.
 
I was thinking about this after our third goal yesterday.

Imagine VAR rules their goal over the line but took a minute to do so. We’d be getting our goal chopped off and their goal given.

I personally hate it. It’s already spoiling my viewing of football when it’s used as you are now expecting every goal to get chopped off.

I really really hope we never have it in Scotland.
 
Match going fans hate it. Most, but not all, fans who can't attend matches hate it.

Is it to be part of the switch to pleasing worldwide armchair audience? Is it football as a Saturday night entertainment show?

It's already, within a year, nothing to do with checking clear and obvious errors. It's also utterly random : see Villa penalty claim at Emirates.

I haven't even touched on the farce of goals and emotions undone by millimetres, reviewed 10-15 times.

What is it supposed to be doing to improve football?
Is it to be part of the switch to pleasing worldwide armchair audience?
You have hit the nail on the head. It is ruining it for players and supporters at the match alike.
 
I guess it depends how much of a difference that small percentage makes to YOUR team. As someone has pointed out above, if we lose the league because a referee doesn't give a penalty as per the handball we had yesterday in Perth - that would, obviously, have been given by VAR - then this place would be in absolute meltdown. That one decision over the course of a season could, theoretically at least, have huge implications.

there is no guarantee we get that penalty through VAR.

VAR is very much hit and miss on handballs.
 
It totally ruins the moment when a goal is scored though, do you cheer and jump up and down or do you wait for VAR to tell you to, then the moment is gone.
The whole point of going to matches is to celebrate when the ball hits the net not a few minutes later when its checked.
What do you do at the moment if the ball goes in the net? You cheer the goal.
Then you see the linesman with his flag up.
Does it lessen what you felt when the ball flew into the net? No, it doesn't.

IIn that moment you still felt the elation and release of tension caused by your team scoring. That it was subsequently chopped off doesn't change that, but does add disappointment after the fact.

So with VAR, you still cheer the goal.
 
What do you do at the moment if the ball goes in the net? You cheer the goal.
Then you see the linesman with his flag up.
Does it lessen what you felt when the ball flew into the net? No, it doesn't.

IIn that moment you still felt the elation and release of tension caused by your team scoring. That it was subsequently chopped off doesn't change that, but does add disappointment after the fact.

So with VAR, you still cheer the goal.
I don't buy that. With new rules there are so many considerations re. build up play etc. that lessen the intensity of the moment.
 
To be fair I hate ALL the new rule changes:

1. Delaying offside flag until player has his shot at goal MArk my words a player WILL be seriously injured trying to finish when move is already known to be offside.
2. The hand ball farce. Now people standing still and having a ball volleyed off them give away a penalty. Even when they didn't move hand towards ball.
3. VAR. You can't call a move back 20 seconds later and after a goal has been scored. Also it is now dominating games AND ruining it for the fans there. This stuff about toe of boot etc is nonsense, we managed fine before.
4. Offside...I liked the 'phases' and it worked well. You weren't man being passed to? Fine then not offside.
 
The fact that something can be an unintentional handball in the Cleague wouldn't be classed as that in the EPL is worrying. a shift in rules across formats isn't helping anything.
 
I watched a game last week from the MLS. team were leading by one goal went up the pitch and scored another in injury time,referee called it offside. Other team had a free kick and were throwing everyone forward for last chance of draw. Cue var check, the goal was given and end of game. Absolute farce
 
After watching the villa game,there is no way that we could have been guaranteed that penalty yesterday.
End of the day,the best team won and the only thing I would have is the goal line technology,which would have proved the decision correct and thus allowed rangers to go up the pitch and score.
You'd think...then you see the blatant hand ball that was missed in the Arsenal - Villa game yesterday.

Sadly (?) I didn't see the Arsenal game yesterday so can't comment on that one. The one in Perth though was as blatant as it gets. A one-eyed pirate wearing an eye-patch could, and should, have seen that one and awarded a penalty - never mind a VAR with his banks of monitors and endless replays from multiple angles. Astonishing decision.
 
Sadly (?) I didn't see the Arsenal game yesterday so can't comment on that one. The one in Perth though was as blatant as it gets. A one-eyed pirate wearing an eye-patch could, and should, have seen that one and awarded a penalty - never mind a VAR with his banks of monitors and endless replays from multiple angles. Astonishing decision.
Believe me,the villa one is the same.
 
What do you do at the moment if the ball goes in the net? You cheer the goal.
Then you see the linesman with his flag up.
Does it lessen what you felt when the ball flew into the net? No, it doesn't.

IIn that moment you still felt the elation and release of tension caused by your team scoring. That it was subsequently chopped off doesn't change that, but does add disappointment after the fact.

So with VAR, you still cheer the goal.

I immediately look at the linesman, see no flag, go bananas. Has always been this way.

In the Premiership that look becomes a two minute pause instead. That would kill it for me.
 
If decisions had been called correct for us these last couple of seasons our points difference would have been more. As for the mhanks, its possible they would be on less. We need to embrace any technology that might level out that particular playing field. In Scotland honest ref errors do not balance themselves out over the season.
 
To be fair I hate ALL the new rule changes:

1. Delaying offside flag until player has his shot at goal MArk my words a player WILL be seriously injured trying to finish when move is already known to be offside.
2. The hand ball farce. Now people standing still and having a ball volleyed off them give away a penalty. Even when they didn't move hand towards ball.
3. VAR. You can't call a move back 20 seconds later and after a goal has been scored. Also it is now dominating games AND ruining it for the fans there. This stuff about toe of boot etc is nonsense, we managed fine before.
4. Offside...I liked the 'phases' and it worked well. You weren't man being passed to? Fine then not offside.

1. Surely you would rather the advantage was played and the attacker potentially scored, than a great opportunity was missed because the linesman wrongly flagged for offside? Not sure why someone would get seriously injured due to this?
3. If someone was blatantly offside in the build up to a goal, whether it was 10 or 20 seconds previous then the goal should be disallowed.
 
Regardless of what side of the VAR fence you are on it 'aint going to be introduced in Scotland any time soon, the football authorities just can't afford it.

If the clubs themselves want it then they will have to pay for it meaning Rangers and Celtic will foot the bill - the other clubs won't be too concerned about it I wouldn't have thought.
 
I immediately look at the linesman, see no flag, go bananas. Has always been this way.

In the Premiership that look becomes a two minute pause instead. That would kill it for me.
Thats the thing VAR is trying to make an imperfect game perfect, it will not work imo
 
Regardless of what side of the VAR fence you are on it 'aint going to be introduced in Scotland any time soon, the football authorities just can't afford it.

If the clubs themselves want it then they will have to pay for it meaning Rangers and Celtic will foot the bill - the other clubs won't be too concerned about it I wouldn't have thought.
Not all clubs in the SPL have scoreboards to let fans know whats going on :D it would be an omnishambles of the highest order
 
1. Surely you would rather the advantage was played and the attacker potentially scored, than a great opportunity was missed because the linesman wrongly flagged for offside? Not sure why someone would get seriously injured due to this?
3. If someone was blatantly offside in the build up to a goal, whether it was 10 or 20 seconds previous then the goal should be disallowed.
1. The goal would not be given, the player is flagged offside when he shoots. One day a chase to the ball will lead to a deliberate or clumsy foul and an injury, when flag could be up when ball is played.
3. I'd rather , as above, flag went up when offside was spotted.
 
Also, I think fans within the stadiums should be kept up to date with what's going on...as it stands they need to check on their phones to see what the decision is / why it's happened.

No paying customer should be kept in the dark like that.



Thing is, they'd have nowhere to hide. Currently referees can give/not give blatant decisions and hide behind the fact that they never seen it. With VAR that excuse would be gone and they could be held accountable.
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Not a dig, but for me that's wishful thinking on your part.

You want to believe the VAR team would be duty bound to act objectively.

But if they are hand picked from the same pool of cheats we are treated to just about in every domestic game we play, then what gives you hope that we would benefit from it becoming part of the game up here?
 
We can't afford multi-ball and often real grass in Scotland, goal line technology and VAR are not coming any time soon to our matches.
 
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