Is it because he is the captain he will not be dropped?

[LarkfiedLoyalNS]

I can’t think of anyone who has performed so poorly with horrendous individual errors that have impacted our chances in Europe and at the top of the league and nothing will be done about it.

Let’s see if Gerrard rightly leaves him out or having him constantly making huge errors in big games when it matters letting us down and down again and again or is it more hassle than it’s worth the unrest it would cause?

We are hardly in a position were our manager can lose the dressing room with such call as it could be catastrophic to our title chances but should we just stick with it until we get a better captain at a better time?

I think we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t at the moment.

 

[Number 4]

I think its fair to say he would have been 'rested' by now if he hadn't had the armband.

 

[Danger Zone]

I think it’s also because the alternative isn’t great. On form Tavernier is a really good player for us, he probably hopes he’ll snap out of it and find that form. But I do think it’s went too far now and he needs hooked.

Polster might not be great, but if he can get through 90 minutes without gift wrapping a goal for the opposition then he’s already doing better than Tavernier has been lately.

 

[Tpol_rfc]

Ojo isn't the captain and should have been dropped well before now so it's not exclusive to the captain.

 

[gordon_blue]

Liverpool took Jordan Henderson off yesterday. That worked.

 

[bob1873]

Right now Arfield, Tav and Ojo need to be taken out the side. Possibly big Connor too all have been poor although he was just okay on Sunday.

 

[ElBarrileteCosmico]

What do we do when we find out that Polster isn't Cafu?

And I do agree that Tav has turned in some horrorshows this season and that yesterday feels like one too many.

 

[SSmithRFC]

The problem is we don't have a like for like replacement.

Tav, as poor as he's been this season, is still a major part of how we play. We'd need to change tactics with him not being in the team and I don't believe Gerrard is willing to do that.

 

[Ross_]

It’s a mixture of the fact he’s the captain and the fact the back up options are not at the same level (arguably I grant you)

Tav was poor yesterday very poor and I am sure he knows the performance was poor - but if he is dropped / “rested” for Thursday his confidence will be shot to peices.

 

[Fu Manchu]

Tav appears to be bomb proof no matter the horrendous errors he costs the team.Being captain raises a huge dilemma for Gerrard if he drops him how does that affect team morale or keep him in the side and live with the continual errors.

 

[RFC4ME]

I wouldn't imagine so.

I would imagine it is to do with his football talents and the fact that you invest in people a lot more than fans do when you become a coach.

You have to work with them, improve them, send signals and messages to others rather than just shitting on people.

People know little about what the man brings as a Captain, the team atmosphere and social side seems spot on, massively important that.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

It's because he offers far, far more in an attacking sense than the other alternatives. But you probably already knew that.

 

[a_weir]

Who do you suggest comes in for him?

Flanagan is injured and Polster is just not as good.

 

[Gumbo Pickle Packer]

What do we do when we find out that Polster isn't Cafu?

And I do agree that Tav has turned in some horrorshows this season and that yesterday feels like one too many.

We afford the guy the opportunity to show if he is capable in the position. Let's start with that and see where it goes.

 

[LarkfiedLoyalNS]

Ojo isn't the captain and should have been dropped well before now so it's not exclusive to the captain.

I don’t like what I see from Ojo this far either looks to have the same commitment as Ejaria which we can’t have but he’s not individually lost us 3 points away from home and our place at the top of the league after 1 game.

This is the man that is supposed to be carrying our team. He is not leading by example.

 

[SuperGers07]

We are at a crossroads with him currently

Ideally he plays himself back into form and mentally toughens up. He looks shot to %^*& however.

Every error recently has now resulted in him costing a goal with each error worse than the one before. For me, he needs taken out the firing line and rested for a number of weeks.

 

[Superted 1872]

The mistakes are worrying but I'm one for backing someone going through a tough patch, he's been pretty reliable the whole time he's been here and needs support not getting hung out to dry

 

[Commentator]

I'd like to add another element to this, it's not only about JT. There are others in the team who, I think, could play better if they didn't have half an eye on the RB position, principally Goldson, Jack and Davis, maybe Arfield, too who regularly fill in there. It's also fair to say the team can look to Tav to 'do something' to turn a game. So Gerrard has to manage the withdrawal of that option, find another way.
The longer he waits the more difficult it becomes, for both Tav and the manager.

 

[SuperGers07]

I'd like to add another element to this. There are others in the team who, I think, could play better if they didn't have half an eye on the RB position, principally Goldson, Jack and Davis, maybe Arfield, too who regularly fill in there. It's also fair to say the team can look to Tav to 'do something' to turn a game. So Gerrard has to manage the withdrawal of that option, find another way.
The longer he waits the more difficult it becomes, for both Tav and the manager.

good post on the situation

 

[londonbluenose]

The problem is we don't have a like for like replacement.

Tav, as poor as he's been this season, is still a major part of how we play. We'd need to change tactics with him not being in the team and I don't believe Gerrard is willing to do that.

Does it need to be like for like?

If Tavernier keeps costing us goals he will have no choice. He wouldnt be in my team for Thursday, what message is it sending out the rest of the squad that Tav continues to play no matter how he performs

 

[LarkfiedLoyalNS]

It's because he offers far, far more in an attacking sense than the other alternatives. But you probably already knew that.

There is no doubting that but what will it take, what will we be saying when it happens again? Polster or Flanno aren’t as good an option so it’s fine James you can make so many catastrophic mistakes.

 

[PMB1872]

What do we do when we find out that Polster isn't Cafu?

And I do agree that Tav has turned in some horrorshows this season and that yesterday feels like one too many.

To be honest, where we are playing a variant of three up front, we should be able to pass the ball forward from the non-Cafu right back option and let attackers attack. Or is that just too obvious?

 

[Big Buff]

He's made three mistakes that lead to three goals in close matches.

That's very unfortunate, and the chances of it continuing to happen are tiny.

He's still our main creative outlet until Ryan Kent gets up to speed.

 

[SuperGers07]

Backing Gerrard to sort him out.

But high profile game is equalling high profile gaffes with Tav now more often than not. There's no easy solution.

 

[Big Buff]

Backing Gerrard to sort him out.

But high profile game is equalling high profile gaffes with Tav now more often than not. There's no easy solution.

Apart from all those high profile games we've played where he hasn't made a mistake.

 

[SuperGers07]

He's made three mistakes that lead to three goals in close matches.

That's very unfortunate, and the chances of it continuing to happen are tiny.

He's still our main creative outlet until Ryan Kent gets up to speed.

game toward end of season at Parkhead still lingering also. It's utter brainfarts from him at times. Lack of concentration in some cases, but on every occasion he's had an easy option to get it to %^*& and hasn't taken it.

 

[SuperGers07]

Apart from all those high profile games we've played where he hasn't made a mistake.

ach that's ok then

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

There is no doubting that but what will it take, what will we be saying when it happens again? Polster or Flanno aren’t as good an option so it’s fine James you can make so many catastrophic mistakes.

You play the best of what you've got.

Many seem to be conveniently forgetting the multiple shockers Flanagan had last season and the fact that Polster has played about 3 games, including sub appearances, and hasn't stood out in one of them.

 

[Big Buff]

ach that's ok then

Well I mean, it is.
He's played 18 competitive games this season and has had two poor games. We don't have many players who are as consistently good as he is. Perhaps the only player who's been as consistent as that this season is Morelos.

 

[Danger Zone]

He's made three mistakes that lead to three goals in close matches.

That's very unfortunate, and the chances of it continuing to happen are tiny.

He's still our main creative outlet until Ryan Kent gets up to speed.

How is it unfortunate though? It’s not as though he was unlucky, he’s dropped us in it 3 times with 3 howlers and at present he looks like his head’s gone, he can’t focus and he’s absolutely shitting his pants. It’s not a great look for a captain.

 

[SuperGers07]

Well I mean, it is.
He's played 18 competitive games this season and has had two poor games. We don't have many players who are as consistently good as he is. Perhaps the only player who's been as consistent as that this season is Morelos.

He is, but that's 3 in as many weeks from him. He needs a wee break out the firing line. Let others step up in an attacking sense.

 

[Commentator]

Well I mean, it is.
He's played 18 competitive games this season and has had two poor games. We don't have many players who are as consistently good as he is. Perhaps the only player who's been as consistent as that this season is Morelos.

Sincere question, do you go to the games?

 

[JW1988]

Well here’s the conundrum that many don’t seem to see.
Tav IS our entire right hand side.
if you take him out you’re then putting Polster who for all intents is a CM in there and expecting him to be RB and RF at the same time.
Flanagan can’t do it either. So it would mean a whole tactical rejig which I don’t think SG wants to do as he trusts the formation we are playing.

 

[SuperGers07]

How is it unfortunate though? It’s not as though he was unlucky, he’s dropped us in it 3 times with 3 howlers and at present he looks like his head’s gone, he can’t focus and he’s absolutely shitting his pants. It’s not a great look for a captain.

If we have a sports psychologist at the club, then thats where they should come in. Get his head sorted out.

 

[Clicker]

How about sourcing a right back who can defend first and foremost, and let the guys further up the park be more creative with the confidence that there’s another competent defender behind them?

 

[JW1988]

Sincere question, do you go to the games?

The problem is, what you see as “poor” by Tav is actually still a decent level in comparison. His errors have been costly but take those out the equation and he’s not been bad, he’s just not been his usual self

 

[LeithGer]

Serious question is who would replace him

Polster is a midfielder who can play rb, similar to Halliday on the left. And Flanagan isn’t fit.

 

[Big Buff]

How is it unfortunate though? It’s not as though he was unlucky, he’s dropped us in it 3 times with 3 howlers and at present he looks like his head’s gone, he can’t focus and he’s absolutely shitting his pants. It’s not a great look for a captain.

Because the chances of making a mistake like that and it actually costing you a goal are smaller than people think.

The chances of it happening three times are (obviously) smaller.

The chances of all those things happening in close games reduce the odds even further.

It's just maths.

 

[Barryhopez]

I wouldn't imagine so.

I would imagine it is to do with his football talents and the fact that you invest in people a lot more than fans do when you become a coach.

You have to work with them, improve them, send signals and messages to others rather than just shitting on people.

People know little about what the man brings as a Captain, the team atmosphere and social side seems spot on, massively important that.

Sanity.

 

[Recoba]

He's made three mistakes that lead to three goals in close matches.

That's very unfortunate, and the chances of it continuing to happen are tiny.

He's still our main creative outlet until Ryan Kent gets up to speed.

They are not tiny when he is playing this poor, nobody would have expected another howler like this so quickly after Young Boys and it wasn't so long ago he gifted the poets a goal in the 2-1 defeat, i think most of us at the time thought that would be his worst howler for a good while but we have been proven badly wrong.

More worrying than that though is when you look at his body language, he looks completely destroyed and is incapable of leading the team at the moment.

 

[Danger Zone]

Because the chances of making a mistake like that and it actually costing you a goal are smaller than people think.

The chances of it happening three times are (obviously) smaller.

The chances of all those things happening in close games reduce the odds even further.

It's just maths.

Well I’ve seen Tavernier’s entire Rangers career and the chances aren’t tiny at all. In fact he’s got a fairly sizeable rap sheet as far as defensive gaffs are concerned.

 

[LarkfiedLoyalNS]

Serious question is who would replace him

Polster is a midfielder who can play rb, similar to Halliday on the left. And Flanagan isn’t fit.

Hypothetical maybe this question but what happens if or when he makes another mistake in a big game, is the same answer nobody else offers as much attacking nor any better at defending than him?

Even the mentally challengeds are noticing he is making a mistakes again and again that’s costing us.

 

[Big Buff]

He is, but that's 3 in as many weeks from him. He needs a wee break out the firing line. Let others step up in an attacking sense.

Two games aren't really a large enough sample size to justify reinventing the entire structure of your team.

If you take Tav out, who moves the ball from the defensive or middle third to the attacking third? Davis and Jack can do it, but you take Tavernier out and they'll be closed down almost instantly. Goldson's long passing is erratic. Katic's is non-existent. Barisic doesn't need the extra responsibility, and Flanagan (who is presumably Taverniers replacement in this scenario) can't play a forward pass to save his life.

 

[Big Buff]

They are not tiny when he is playing this poor, nobody would have expected another howler like this so quickly after Young Boys and it wasn't so long ago he gifted the poets a goal in the 2-1 defeat, i think most of us at the time thought that would be his worst howler for a good while but we have been proven badly wrong.

More worrying than that though is when you look at his body language, he looks completely destroyed and is incapable of leading the team at the moment.

No idea what people were watching yesterday, but nothing about Taverniers body language suggested that the mistakes got to him. He was still adventurous with the ball and was still getting into the attacking third regularly.

 

[SuperGers07]

Well I’ve seen Tavernier’s entire Rangers career and the chances aren’t tiny at all. In fact he’s got a fairly sizeable rap sheet as far as defensive gaffs are concerned.

He's had a torrid time at Tynecastle down the years.

 

[Big Buff]

Well I’ve seen Tavernier’s entire Rangers career and the chances aren’t tiny at all. In fact he’s got a fairly sizeable rap sheet as far as defensive gaffs are concerned.

I've also seen Taverniers entire Rangers career and the numbers don't really back it up, especially when weighed against his attacking output.

Recency bias is very powerful.

 

[sheddensbear]

Kinda makes you think about SG comment about a big pool. If Tav doesn't get dropped, what message does that send ? I'd have Flanagan in at RB where we will be defending a lot.

 

[Mondraker]

I think it’s also because the alternative isn’t great. On form Tavernier is a really good player for us, he probably hopes he’ll snap out of it and find that form. But I do think it’s went too far now and he needs hooked.

Polster might not be great, but if he can get through 90 minutes without gift wrapping a goal for the opposition then he’s already doing better than Tavernier has been lately.

Polster definitely needs the chance or what's the point of having him here? If he cant challenge for a position then it's a wasted signing.

 

[Recoba]

No idea what people were watching yesterday, but nothing about Taverniers body language suggested that the mistakes got to him. He was still adventurous with the ball and was still getting into the attacking third regularly.

After the goal his head went down and you could see the sheer shock on his fave, he is not inspiring or leading others with performances like this and needs taken out the firing line for a few games so he can regroup.

 

[BrooklynBlue]

You play the best of what you've got.

Many seem to be conveniently forgetting the multiple shockers Flanagan had last season and the fact that Polster has played about 3 games, including sub appearances, and hasn't stood out in one of them.

People are wanting a change for the sake of it.

Six months ago (or so) Flanagan was being routinely criticised on here with suggestions that he was playing only because he was SG's mate. He is a limited defender and while he can definitely play a role, his appearance in place of Tav would radically alter our set-up

Tav is by far the best we have in the current squad. Whether he'll survive next Summer, though, is another question.