The likely background to the Times story on the Taxman and the Tax bill

[nelster]

Rangers were not relegated.
They were expelled from football by their fellow SPL clubs.

Why the CRO even stated that on their tweet is mystifying

Too many voices, not enough of them precise.

 

[Deleted member 125]

It makes the collapse of the Whyte and cronies trials and the Supreme Court decision look even more suspect.

It's hard not to conclude that their was indeed a conspiracy.

 

[ChildOfGoth]

You know.what i meant ffs

Well you don’t lol

 

[Danger Zone]

If it’s true then surely the club must be compensated in a significant way?

There can’t possibly be any scenario where we’re not due reparations, surely? Absolutely disgraceful that it was allowed to happen at all. I know we’re in a better place now, but the club should never let that go and pursue these fùckers every which way.

 

[Rooster]

Infuriating if true, sadly can’t see anything coming from it. Damage long since done.

 

[worcester bear]

Does this mean the book ‘Downfall’ has been edited wrongly by Ang Hagg?
Could this have been avoided if she had it the right way up?

 

[andymor]

He did at the time HMRC served the bill for the tax.

David Murray offered to pay 10M at start, bas--rds refused spurred on I think by Dr Death.

 

[thetoptier]

It makes the collapse of the Whyte and cronies trials and the Supreme Court decision look even more suspect.

It's hard not to conclude that their was indeed a conspiracy.

who was the judge that allowed CW to appoint his "preferred" administrators?

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

That was the amount the club would have paid in income tax had EBTs not been used.

The club also paid Murray £6m to run the EBT scheme so the net benefit to Rangers over a decade or so was only £18m.

I never understood where some of the figures came from.


The problem is that Lloyds controlled Murray and made all the decisions. However, Murray could have afforded to pay the EBT bill from his own savings.

My recollection was he made them an offer didn’t he ?

 

[thetoptier]

My recollection was he made them an offer didn’t he ?

there was also more than one viable offer made at the CVA stage as well was there not?

which HMRC fucked over

 

[westenclosurebear]

Im wondering where does Murray fit into this story though?
Apart from the obvious.
But he didn’t own the company in 2012

did murray not offer something like 10M to HMRC at the time

is this the basis for his action against them?

Yes that's been reported previously. Never heard that stated as Fact though.

 

[Deleted member 125]

who was the judge that allowed CW to appoint his "preferred" administrators?

I might be wrong but I think it was a timing issue. CW took us into admin on 14/2/12 before any action was taken against us, which in turn allowed him to use his preffered administrators.

Someone please feel free to correct me.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

there was also more than one viable offer made at the CVA stage as well was there not?

which HMRC fucked over

That English bloke bid above Green didn’t he ? Souness’s rugby mate ?

 

[Walters80]

Interesting that nonce fc suddenly changed it’s stance a few weeks back and decided to tell it’s fans to vote down resolution 12 after 7 years?

No smoke without fire, I suspect they know this story is about to blow up big time and they will be implicated.

 

[spirit_of_93]

I might be wrong but I think it was a timing issue. CW took us into admin on 14/2/12 before any action was takewn against us, which in turn allowed him to use his preffered administrators.

Someone please feel free to correct me.

Yes that was it, he claimed it was some kind of clever move to help the club.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

If this is true then it only confirms what many of us believed at the time, that HMRC set out to kill Rangers off.

Heads must roll!

These fuckers will be onto RC tomorrow night.

If they’re talking business let’s be ready with our child abuse questions mate

 

[GBOY]

David Murray offered to pay 10M at start, bas--rds refused spurred on I think by Dr Death.

Definitely that kant Reid, ably abetted by his owner DD(Fritzl)

 

[a_weir]

I might be wrong but I think it was a timing issue. CW took us into admin on 14/2/12 before any action was taken against us, which in turn allowed him to use his preffered administrators.

Someone please feel free to correct me.

You're correct. Whyte did not get to appoint the administrators, the court did, due to timings. Regardless, they were shysters.

 

[Al Needham Loyal]

People are getting very mixed up here. There was still a tax liability from the big tax case, however the additional penalties were not due.
Here’s what the BDO report says:
“
A significant proportion of the Big Tax Claim of c£74m related to interest and penalties (c£36m). The penalty element of the claim was c£23.9m and was levied at a particularly high rate. The Joint Liquidators, on behalf of the Company, disputed both the quantum, and the principle, of the penalties applied by HMRC.
Following discussions and meetings with HMRC, we submitted an appeal to the HMRC Penalty Review Consistency Panel (“the Panel”). This set out the reasons why the Joint Liquidators considered the penalties to be incorrectly levied. We are pleased to advise that the Panel has recently agreed with our submission in its entirety, and the element of HMRC’s claim pertaining to penalties has now been withdrawn in full.”

Therefore the tax Murray would have been due to pay was still c£50m

The £50m would be the full total that was paid via EBT, which tax would have been due on. This is where the HMRC error occurred - they've basically taken the gross figure and applied 100% tax to it, which is not how it works. Then they've added daily interest and penalties.

Presuming 45% tax is accurate (though for the majority of the EBT period it would have been 40%), that gives a figure of 22.5m. Had Murray been allowed to pay the 10m he offered, plus if we'd got market value for Jelavic, we'd have been left with a bill of around 3m.

 

[Lenzie Loyal]

These fuckers will be onto RC tomorrow night.

If they’re talking business let’s be ready with our child abuse questions mate

I'm not entirely sure they will. They're devastated at this news.

We have been the victims of a monstrous criminal act by poisoned minds employed by HMRC

This story goes a long way to vindicating Rangers.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

I'm not entirely sure they will. They're devastated at this news.

We have been the victims of a monstrous criminal act by poisoned minds employed by HMRC

This story goes a long way to vindicating Rangers.

I’m still reading & trying to get my head around it LL

 

[Al Needham Loyal]

If it’s true then surely the club must be compensated in a significant way?

There can’t possibly be any scenario where we’re not due reparations, surely? Absolutely disgraceful that it was allowed to happen at all. I know we’re in a better place now, but the club should never let that go and pursue these fùckers every which way.

HMRC, SFA, SPL, SPFL, Harper Macleod, and every SPL club bar Kilmarnock (IIRC) should be pursued, along with individual actions against Lord Carloway et al.

Every single one of them.

And yes, they will see us fucking coming, cause unlike them we'll come at them head on.

 

[jicrw]

If the Ticketus ££Millions££ has NOT been paid back, it defies logic, that no one was convicted of Fraud.

Just an opinion, from someone who lost ££Thousands££, in Shares!

 

[Lenzie Loyal]

Is today, Jimmy Shaker day?

 

[Lainey Love]

It’s coming up in talk sport shortly

 

[TCWNS1872]

Baron Reid of Cardowan.

In f**king one my friend.

 

[crmpicco]

Said it at the time, we'd been royally fucked by HMRC and a phantom tax bill.

If there's substance to this, we simply cannot take this lying down.

Couldn't agree more. The thought that we've went through all this crap for nothing is sickening to say the very least. FWIW, I don't doubt for a second that Dave King is going to let this lie.

 

[Calvinist]

Worth noting HMRC blocked a rescue package of £8.5 million citing they were owed around £75million .

they went all out to utterly damage our club .

 

[EH47]

A scandal and a national disgrace but surely the only person who would benefit from this is Craig Whyte, as he was the owner at the time.

FFS, don't you think a certain paedo-harbouring outfit in the east end benefitted massively from it?

 

[Sir Sasa Papac]

Correct me if I’m wrong but are you not just saying that the penalties weren’t payable but the actual tax liability which was £50m in its own right was still payable (think it totalled to £90m in total)

It wasn’t. The initial claim for the big tax case was £49m, a £35m tax bill plus £24m charges and interest (which grew as the years rolled on).

It’s stated in Martin Bains court transcripts back when he tried to get his potential compensation ring fenced.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=6fb986a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

it’s a scary read that but very revealing. That’s in September 2011 and you can tell those in the know behind the scenes could see the writing on the wall

 

[GazzaG]

If it’s true then surely the club must be compensated in a significant way?

There can’t possibly be any scenario where we’re not due reparations, surely? Absolutely disgraceful that it was allowed to happen at all. I know we’re in a better place now, but the club should never let that go and pursue these fùckers every which way.

Ive asked how as shareholders in the 'oldco' we can pursue this.
It matters not that I had one share, it was rendered worthless by a criminal act.

 

[Danger Zone]

Ive asked how as shareholders in the 'oldco' we can pursue this.
It matters not that I had one share, it was rendered worthless by a criminal act.

Good luck. Like I said, I can’t understand how the club couldn’t be due serious reparations for the scale of damage done off the back of all of this nonsense.

Its disgraceful, and no one will ever truly be able to compensate us because no amount of money will make up for the possibility of having come back to win 55 much sooner.

 

[Carson's Cat]

David Murray offered to pay 10M at start, bas--rds refused spurred on I think by Dr Death.

This is a thoroughly important point and one that is often overlooked. HMRF could have been £10M to the good, ended up with nothing but spunked away untold millions in flogging a dead horse.

They have to be held to account for this.

 

[George Goudie]

Rangers. Victims of a crime. Why? Because the HMRC in Scotland is a Petri dish of OPUS DEI!

Be in no doubt. It is historically poisoned to it's very core. Together with senior academics they created the perfect bacteriological storm to infect the blogosphere - with the demise of Rangers being the sole intent.

 

[whitbyontbear]

I often wondered how the media came to their figures but I could never work it out. It looks as though they were fed the figures and they ran with it or scurried if you prefer. Who fed them the figures will never been revealed but skeletons do fall out of cupboards and this one has now fallen with an almighty rattle.

 

[Bknowe]

I often wondered how the media came to their figures but I could never work it out. It looks as though they were fed the figures and they ran with it or scurried if you prefer. Who fed them the figures will never been revealed but skeletons do fall out of cupboards and this one has now fallen with an almighty rattle.

The Phantom "£134m" debt was always based on a worst case scenario. I.e, we lost the BTC.

£94.4m was given to HMRC for "voting purposes" in the CVA when they should have had £9m (what CW failed to pay. The £94m+ gave them the right to veto the CVA due to them having over a 1/3 of the debt. They would have been under that if they were voting on £9m.

 

[Beer Belly Loyal]

So the damage has been done, we, Rangers supporters have been put through hell these past 8 years for what?

When I look at how the media behave in Scotland towards Protestants and Rangers fans and all this 'Independence' nonsense breaking up the Union which just won't go away due to the divisive SNP it all fits right into place.

The scandal at Parkhead involving the rape of young hopefuls, the pathetically convenient loss of evidence over the 'hanging dolls of Orange men and Rangers fans', Rangers fans being denied a fanzone, the decision to fly the tricolour in 2016 at Glasgow City Chambers by a corrupt cabal.

The ongoing attempts at blackening the name of those who want to see Orange parades on the streets of Scotland, something which we have always enjoyed whether orange or not.

The Green Brigade having a free reign to spread their IRA love in without a single eyebrow being raised, or more like those in power joining in on the love in

I could go on.

If Scotland ever get that indyref2 go ahead and they get the result they want then we are truly fucked!

 

[ibrox40]

the real figure was £20m Murray offered £10m with us paying back the rest £2m a year, that was workable

 

[Timardim]

Over to you Mr.Brazil.....?

 

[warfieldranger]

the real figure was £20m Murray offered £10m with us paying back the rest £2m a year, that was workable

IF the amended £20 million bill includes £9 million from Whyte's time in charge, then the real bill at the time of Murray's offer was £11 million so the offer should have been accepted (only £1 million less than the real bill at the time).

 

[Bear all]

A blunder orchestrated by Dr Death .

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Going by the CRO tweet he was basically forced (by the bank) to sell to anyone to get what now turns out to be a non existent liability off his empires books.

Instead of being able to get the best price for himself he basically offloaded us to the first shyster to protect himself.

He’s still a prick btw.

His portrait on the mural in the Blue Room at Ibrox has to be, must be whitewashed off.

Leave the silhouette. That way youngsters in future generations will ask the question. Why?

 

[Purpolaris]

It's absolutely frightening that bigots at HMRC in East Kilbride, of all places, are responsible for Craig Whyte etc. I'm sure all of the dots are being joined by us but do we have enough legal support to pursue this. By legal support I mean Judges, PF etc. We all know how they've "helped" us in the past.

 

[Gallant_Few]

Take the bastards to the cleaners.

I still believe this was pushed by certain people. The club should leave no stone unturned untill HMRC and individuals involved are brought to account.

Welcome to 'The Big TaxMan Case'

Justice shall be served!!!!

 

[im_a_good_bluenose]

Call me paranoid but my belief has always been that someone has been manipulating this.

This does nothing to convince me otherwise.

Not paranoid at all the whole thing for me was a plot with that jakey stinking bastard who used to be home secretary at the controls. And their will be no trail either. Just a bigoted cheating drunken rancid vile poisonous bog trotting bastard

 

[Wang]

Still struggle to get my head round it all from day one

Why the CRO even stated that on their tweet is mystifying

Too many voices, not enough of them precise.

No one understands it, that’s the problem.

The whole thing was a mess from the word go.

 

[remembertheepoch]

Was this the big story that Alan Brazil said was going to shake our foundation?

The way he was going on it was a disaster.

 

[GF1872]

The whole thing fcuking stinks, unfortunately a can’t see any benefit to current company. Too little to late, or maybe I’m pessimistic

 

[Bill the Butcher]

From CRO...


HMRC have confirmed that they vastly over billed Rangers oldco for EBT tax assessments. The ‘real’ bill would not have been sufficient to see the company sold and then pushed into admin - leading to the club being relegated and all the implications of that. A monumental scandal.

The club wasn't relegated.

 

[The Moonlighter]

King has said there is a plan to get oldco back. You’d imagine if there was a way it could benefit us he’d be trying his hardest to get it back now

The contract with Ashley is with Newco. Could this wipe that out?