Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

It may be oldco business but I would argue that Rangers as a brand was badly damaged thus causing all sorts of problems outwith the actual business. Our TV revenue, sponsors etc.
 
Hilly5411 said:
This is totally under the assumption this happens though. King has been on record saying that he’d like to bring back the oldco at one point when it became a viable option (which seems like now tbh). Seems logical though if we’re entitled to a good bit of compo that way and it gets rid of Ashley. From what I’ve read, BDO feel as if liquidation is incorrect, and therefore are holding onto the papers that finalise that process as a result of what’s happened. So King could technically do it if it’s all true, or at least that’s how it sounds! Unless there’s something I’m missing entirely (but I fucking hope there isn’t) :D
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How much could be realistically expected as compensation though? We would probably also still be liable for the £9 million PAYE and VAT from the 'wee tax case' and Whyte's £26 million Ticketus mortgage, as well as whatever is left of the other creditors, the BBC say that was about £15 million(£7.7 million to debenture and bond holders), and then the £20 million bill that HMRC is expected to settle on now.

It could still work out at over £50 million which is owed. £34 million of which should never have been allowed to happen with proper due diligence and Murray not being forced to sell over a fantasy debt.
 
Interesting to see where this goes and if any investigation is carried out or even called for.

We have few friends in the media and political circles so the club and fans groups need to be very vocal and not let this drop.

Will wait to hear from financial folk to explain full story but I think it may take a massive demonstration of 50k fans in george square to get some attention to this scandal.
 
The PAYE scandal with Whyte came later and has nothing to do with this new revelation. It now looks as if HMRC screwed up with the figure and other parties jumped on it and started adding in Interest and penalties to build it into a National story. We couldn't sell the club due to the amounts the media were quoting, The bastards were having a field day crowing over the figures and the rest of the SPL believed what they wanted to believe and quoted Liewell's famous slogan about Sporting Integrity before tossing us out.

Now the worm has turned and it is they who are wriggling on the hook. The next couple of weeks are going to be very exciting and pleasant
 
Has the oldco actually been wound up yet or is it still to be officially done?

I remember Dave King mentioning there was a chance to merge the two companies only for him then to say there wasn’t a chance.

I’d love it if this changed things.

I know it doesn’t mean much but the sentimental value would mean a lot to bears workdwide.
 
From the very beginning of all this it was stated by a few myself included about that ba$tard Reid and his statement about nailing us to the floor, Manus Fullarton Lloyds bank, who conveniently vacated the crime scene and then it happened, Murray in trouble getting blackmailed by Lloyds to sacrifice us, Whyte ( that cunt), Duff and Phelps (crooks) Green all the spivs, Ashley and his henchmen it was planned to destroy us and no one will convince me ever that it was just chance.
Lucky for us King and co came along and saved us.HMRC were used to destroy us, they miscalculated something.
We as a support would never let it happen we are too many, we love our club and supported them from every corner of the planet, we will maintain and if we can do anything about HMRC SFA,SPFL and all the cunts that deliberately and illegally fined and crippled us then we should pursue it like the hounds from hell.
 
TheStandardBearer said:
Has the oldco actually been wound up yet or is it still to be officially done?

I remember Dave King mentioning there was a chance to merge the two companies only for him then to say there wasn’t a chance.

I’d love it if this changed things.

I know it doesn’t mean much but the sentimental value would mean a lot to bears workdwide.
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I'd hazard a guess at it being wound up which is why the admittance comes now when there's little option of reprimand.
 
It's scandalous that an accounting 'error' by HMRC can lead to any company going out of business, leaving creditors out of pocket.

In our case the old company creditors are still out of pocket, while Whyte and Green count the money they made out of the administration / liquidation process.
 
Hmrc needs brought to task individuals are chased relentlessly to the point where some commit suicide to be free of debt. They act like thugs and loan sharks in many cases. Now we find they got their suns wrong and this forced us to liquidate? Maybe I’m not understanding the subtlety of the issue but if so you’d think we would have a claim. But, this is hmrc and their powers often are above the law it seems.
 
Tugay83 said:
Yes, obviously, but you can't sue on that basis. We all know he was in the shit with the bank but that was between him and the bank. Murray can't sue HMRC because Craig Whyte didn't pay a tax bill.
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You are going round in circles.

Look back at figures used when CVA was proposed. Main driver that put company into liquidation was big tax case.
 
We knew deep down from day one we were being shafted and had no one who was prepared to fight our corner, whether we receive damages or not the 15 years or so since all the stories of tax started to emerge can never be reversed or the damage to our club. I hope someone is held to account for this but I won’t hold my breath.
 
People saying our AGM will be interesting now? This has nothing to do with the current company and I am sure the board will say that too.

However it would be great if Dave King would release some form of statement for fans to at least tell us if this changes anything with regard to saving the Oldco and possibly merging like what he has suggested before.
 
The Dogs in the street knew this was an orchestrated campaign by our enemies at the time.

And all because? They couldnae take it.

Hated our presence, our success, our standing, our culture, our dominance.

Hatred borne from jealousy. Instead of finding ways to better themselves to reach the top, ruthless, clandestine and downright gangsterism methods were used.
Used by people connected to the only Institution who would really benefit from our ultimate and complete demise. The fact we not only pulled ourselves from the Canvas but are finally looking like Rangers again at home and abroad is a dagger in each and every one of their hearts. If we get on top again the psychological blow would be enormous. Not only in terms of football on the park and its corridors of power, but in homes, in workplaces and society in general.

It will be magnificent.
 
George Goudie said:
HMRC in Scotland = OPUS DEI!

Be in no doubt. It is historically poisoned to it's very core. Together with senior academics they created the perfect storm on the blogosphere - with the demise of Rangers being the sole intent.
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The main instigated to target Rangers would have been someone with the power, influence and motive to have Rangers taken out the picture. John Reid ticks all those boxes. I'm sure of it
 
George Goudie said:
HMRC in Scotland = OPUS DEI!

Be in no doubt. It is historically poisoned to it's very core. Together with senior academics they created the perfect storm on the blogosphere - with the demise of Rangers being the sole intent.
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Tony Blairs political enforcer, Dr Death, had considerable influence over HMRC. Within HMRC Scotland he had a willing following, rotten to the core.
 
Puts a certain Law Lords comments into perspective

Seems the taxman should be expected to compensate, for the sake of fairness
 
I’m no financial expert but surely at the time of the bill coming in, Murray would have had experts scrutinise it to death and would have realised there was a miscalculation?
 
insanicdrunk said:
Just seen this on twitter and forgot about it

Plus an incorrect creditor value used to block a CVA which arguably wouldn’t have happened if treated correctly


This is a monumental fck up!
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Haven’t read through the whole thread yet but that’s something that occurred to me.
 
George Goudie said:
HMRC in Scotland = OPUS DEI!

Be in no doubt. It is historically poisoned to it's very core. Together with senior academics they created the perfect storm on the blogosphere - with the demise of Rangers being the sole intent.
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It reeks of Dr Death and always has,we need an an enquiry names should be at least the minimum outcome, dont expect anything of this Government.
 
Wish I could be feeling some righteous vindication just now but to be perfectly honest this is the most angry and gutted I've been since 2012.

I'm sure the rational part of my brain will kick in at some point later but right now I'd happily see Scottish football burned to the ground for us to get what we're due.
 
AndythephotoDr said:
How does this change folks views on SDM? He always said our debt was manageable.

I guess anyone who was a shareholder of oldco would have grounds to seek justice purely in a financial loss point of view as their investment was sunk by the HMRC

I really hope BDO and Murray really go in for the kill in this. I guess Dave King and his initial huge investment in Oldco will have a reason to get involved. What was his old shareholding worth?

one thing for sure this isn’t going away for a while yet
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Why didn’t Murray stop using EBTs and pay off the ‘manageable’ debt in 2008 when HMRC began investigating?

It hasn’t changed my views on Murray - he could have afforded to pay the bill from his own savings.
 
There needs to be a petition for this to raised in Parliament, and it needs to be successful this time.

The fact so much information was being leaked about our case at the time while such a huge blunder was made means questions should be asked.
 
All looks like a conspiracy. HMRC “accidentally” force us out of business and then Green & Whyte (coincidence?) turn up like vulchers to finish us off and make sure the new company makes a terrible start.
 
warfieldranger said:
It's scandalous that an accounting 'error' by HMRC can lead to any company going out of business, leaving creditors out of pocket.

In our case the old company creditors are still out of pocket, while Whyte and Green count the money they made out of the administration / liquidation process.
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Totally agree mate.
But you could add we’re not just a normal company, we’re a worldwide known brand.
And that should come as mighty a price to them.
 
HMRC were in the news last week regarding the aggressive nature that they are going after people for EBTs, they were absolutely rife in business. They’re a fucking disgrace demanding people pay money now until it’s established what they owe while it’s been fought, which means they might not even owe anything, yet they’ve to make an advanced payment! Shower of bastards are destroying people!
 
Grei9 said:
Yeah mate 18mil and had sellable assets as in players valued at, at least double that. my Grandfather was a bond holder and My family where small shareholders in the old co. It hurts now as it did then that we lost it all due to lies, hate, corruption and incompetence.
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I was also a shareholder and a bond holder (an inheritance from my Dad after he died) and the loss of that hurt deeply and although I still sit in he same seat, it is no longer my seat. I am incredibly angry at what happened to our great institution through what I believe was initially incompetence but which rapidly developed into a hate fuelled attempt to destroy the Rangers, aided and abetted by greed and incompetence, the SFA, Lloyds Bank, the chairmen and CEOs of various clubs, Whyte et al, etc. They failed.
 
deedle said:
Why didn’t Murray stop using EBTs and pay off the ‘manageable’ debt in 2008 when HMRC began investigating?

It hasn’t changed my views on Murray - he could have afforded to pay the bill from his own savings.
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I suppose the answer to this is that EBT’s were legal at the time and it was years later that the ‘goalpost’ change was legally proved.
 
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