Tax Officials Blamed For Rangers Downfall – HMRC Mistake Wipes Millions From Ibrox Bill (The Times)

Absolutely raging at this news. Some say it's not negative news for us, and they're right in terms of it not being another admin scenario, but it's a hard one to take any positivity from on the realisation we've gone through hell for the sake of a mistake by HMRC.

I know I'm not the only one thinking like this but, after being laughed at, mocked and battered from pillar to post from every angle for years, I have a feeling this still won't be a good thing for us. There's always another twist in the plot that usually means we end up getting screwed again whilst those responsible reap the benefits or get away with it.

Hope I'm wrong, I really do, but everything that's happened up to this point just makes me think we'll never see any form of justice or retribution for what's happened to us.

I feel exactly the same mate.

at the very least we should be compensated for the mess the6 put us in

best case I want the people responsible for it, utterly ruined. Imprisoned and financially raped. Oh and every prize handed out in Scottish football over the past few years to be made null and void
 
Was this another plot to see us die. As I remember there were employees in high positions in Scotland who were complicit in our downfall. A public enquiry is called for. Only in Scotland this corruption is allowed to continue.
 
This is unbelievable. I don’t know what to think. Angry at HMRC for sure. Sad for those who lost their jobs. Sad for the bears we lost during the years of pain, who died with their beloved club in the doldrums. Angry at the administrators and lawyers who failed to see through this at the time. Angry at the other clubs who jumped on the HMRC lies with relish to punish Rangers and stop us competing for years. So, anger is the primary emotion.

A mistaken stroke of a HMRC pen had a huge impact on our club and on people’s’ lives. It’s utterly unacceptable. HMRC went after Rangers big style, we need to know why and we need to seek justice. But I have no idea how and have no idea what we can do about it. Which makes me more angry. This whole saga is an utter disgrace.

It is.

My thinking / fear is that just like the case against Whyte and all the other people who got away with things during it all that nothing happens.

We'll not be the winners when it finishes. We'll have lost ten of millions of pounds due to it all.
 
HMRC now trending on twitter (I think)... so this is going global.

(Someone with more Twitter brains can tell me im wrong)

poets are loving it.
lady's front bottom at my work last night thinks it funnier because it didn’t need to to happen.
 
Read this news on H&H and FF this morning and at 1st felt happy then angry and now i feel completely numb and want answers :mad: we basically were forced into going through the last 7years due to some peoples incompetance and hatred for our club.....We better come out all guns blazing after this news, I want heads to roll for this!!!
 
BBC not covering this story. Surprising since they had the hit piece documentary on us. Another thing to sweep under the carpet.

BBC is not fit for purpose.
The BBC Scotland sports news on radio was leading on women’s golf, then American football and a mention for baseball!

No mention of this story.

Phil Goodlad is normally a total bawbag, this morning he has surpassed himself in meaningless stories.
 

that’s interesting - so the removal of the penalty charge was known about back in June? I had a vague recollection this might have been mentioned at the time by posters on here - perhaps yourself?

I assume what The Times article is suggesting is that the other argument - whether you use the figure paid into the EBT as the gross or net “salary” for the purposes of the tax calculation - has also been conceded?
 
What a very odd thread.
On a story that HMRC may have overcharged Rangers in 2012 for tax.
The first few pages dismiss the story without considering it at all.
This tax case relates to the previous board and not to Dave King’s Rangers at all.
I say move on and let the old board claim back any over charged tax for our previous creditors

What ‘old board’?

BDO control the Oldco’s operations now with a view to maximising the payout for creditors.
 
The only ones that's are surprised are the supporters who labeled the majority as paranoid for knowing and speaking passionately about this being a stitch up from day one.

We've all gone through the pain, some more than others - loss of jobs which affects family life, puts a strain on every day life, people have passed away whilst we were at our lowest not knowing what was going on, years of hatred, abuse, lies and people trying to piss on us from every angle, trying to kill us off.

Never once did we lie down or surrender and Rangers dominance is almost around the corner once again.

I trust Dave King, the board and every one connected to Rangers with Rangers at heart to deal with this in the right manner. They certainly have more brains and knowledge of how to deal with a situation like this than someone like me. I look forward to reading the more knowledgeable posts on here to get a better understanding of what all this means, and how we are likely to go about our business in regards to this!?

HMRC are a shower of corrupt bastards, along with numerous other companies, people, organisations and leaders within this country and further afield.
 
Right,

I have read the BDO report.

Would be delighted if someone could confirm my interpretation of same.

HMRC initially claimed for £94M as part of the Liquidation claim.

£74M of this was related to the EBT issue, commonly known as the Big Tax Case.

The penalty element of that £74M claim amounted to £24M and the claim for this element was withdrawn. HMRC also admitted to having miscalculated other elements and therefore the total claim from the HMRC, £94M actually reduced to C.£64M

There was therefore a reductions of circa £30M in the overall claim by HMRC.

If the sum sits at Circa £64M in the round, are we now saying there is a further sum to be wiped off this or is the news story really just a rehash of the creditors report?

Further points to note.

Ticketus were owed significant sums, £26.7M from memory.

The current administrators are suing the previous administrators for £27M for wrong advice.

The only people who will really win is BDO and the other parties appointed but were there to be significant litigation, then it is possible the pot would end up in surplus... If's but's and maybe's unfortunately.
 
Right,

I have read the BDO report.

Would be delighted if someone could confirm my interpretation of same.

HMRC initially claimed for £94M as part of the Liquidation claim.

£74M of this was related to the EBT issue, commonly known as the Big Tax Case.

The penalty element of that £74M claim amounted to £24M and the claim for this element was withdrawn. HMRC also admitted to having miscalculated other elements and therefore the total claim for this part (Big Tax Case), reduced from £74M to £68.3M

There was therefore a reductions of circa £30M in the overall claim by HMRC.

If the sum sits at Circa £64M in the round, are we now saying there is a further sum to be wiped off this or is the news story really just a rehash of the creditors report?

I think per The Times report BDO may have got somewhere re the “grossing up” argument they mention In the penultimate paragraph of part4 of the report.
 
The only ones that's are surprised are the supporters who labeled the majority as paranoid for knowing and speaking passionately about this being a stitch up from day one.

We've all gone through the pain, some more than others - loss of jobs which affects family life, puts a strain on every day life, people have passed away whilst we were at our lowest not knowing what was going on, years of hatred, abuse, lies and people trying to piss on us from every angle, trying to kill us off.

Never once did we lie down or surrender and Rangers dominance is almost around the corner once again.

I trust Dave King, the board and every one connected to Rangers with Rangers at heart to deal with this in the right manner. They certainly have more brains and knowledge of how to deal with a situation like this than someone like me. I look forward to reading the more knowledgeable posts on here to get a better understanding of what all this means, and how we are likely to go about our business in regards to this!?

HMRC are a shower of corrupt bastards, along with numerous other companies, people, organisations and leaders within this country and further afield.

Cheers mate greeting at my desk
 
that’s interesting - so the removal of the penalty charge was known about back in June?

I assume what The Times article is suggesting is that the other argument - whether you use the figure paid into the EBT as the gross or net “salary” for the purposes of the tax calculation - has also been conceded?

On the other thread, started by @mdingwall I made that very point as the first response to his post. HMRC conceding on the penalties on the BTC amounted to £26m. This was, indeed, known back in June and it adds circa £1m to the Creditors pot.

I too found myself asking what has now prompted the story. What has changed? I’ve read the front page of The Times posted on here but have no access to the rest of the story on the other pages. Maybe it’s the fact that there are hints of legal action? Further concessions from HMRC?

There’s no word on the further elements BDO are disputing, though their next report should be out in early December.
 
I think per The Times report BDO may have got somewhere re the “grossing up” argument they mention In the penultimate paragraph of part4 of the report.

If that is the case and having re-read it, we are talking now of a further reduction of the ultimate figure of £64M. If that 'Up to £50M' figure the Times suggested is factual, then are we genuinely looking at a tax bill of £14M?! or are we saying overall from the £94M outset, we could see the final sum sought in and around the £44M figure? Regardless, even if it was £44M, that was serviceable given the assets both in terms of playing staff, property and land which the club held at the time. There is absolutely no way a CVA should have been blocked in that instance.

BDO's December report, perhaps what the Times have had early sight of, will be hugely telling whether £64M is the gross figure or substantially less.
 
How the fook can anyone at HMRC " miscalculate " a tax bill by £ 50 million ? The more I read of this, the worse it gets. We were nearly destroyed for an easily manageable £ 20 million tax bill ? :(

How the fook can anyone at HMRC " miscalculate " a tax bill by £ 50 million ? The more I read of this, the worse it gets. We were nearly destroyed for an easily manageable £ 20 million tax bill ? :(



I'd go further pal, Murray offered to settle the bill for £10 million before it was ramped up to court proceedings.

So in essence, HMRC chased us, denying us a CVA and near killing one of the greatest institutions in Britain for an extra £10 million ffs.
 
No doubt Tom English will be frantically flicking through his contacts book looking for 'experts' to consult.Here's hoping this is favourable to the club and that Dave King gives it full thrust of his sabre when pursuing the wrong uns.There surely has to be a valid argument for the amount of revenue lost by the club due to this 'error'.
 
The mentally challengeds are saying that HMRC never persued the higher tax compensation as there was no point as they are only dealing with pennies in the pound now and, wait for it, it’s a waste of taxpayers money.
 
BBC not covering this story. Surprising since they had the hit piece documentary on us. Another thing to sweep under the carpet.

BBC is not fit for purpose.
Surprisingly radio Scotland just had the reporter on from the Times. Watch this space on how they spin it
 
Plenty of small shareholders lost thousands. All club deck bond holders lost their debentures. This needs to be taken all the way.

My family lost 2 seats in the club deck through this but people also lost jobs and who knows what else they lost or hardships they were put through.

This needs resolved for them as much as the club, shareholders and debenture holders.
 
I'm guessing I'm not alone in believing that we were the victim of a massive conspiracy to render Rangers ineffective as a challenger for the honours in Scottish football, if not to kill us off completely.
Remember first of all who exactly benefitted from it, and who willingly joined in believing they would get a slice of the action in the shape of crumbs from their master's table.
If you want to know who from the mhedia was in on it, watch how these latest revelations unfold and remember who were most vocal against us in 2012, those dismissing us out of hand based on what they maintained was our guilt.
Remember also those who sneered at us and denounced the club for our lack of "contrition".
Now watch those same people again to see those who seek to minimise or dismiss the importance (and implications) of this week's revelations, or alternatively observe them sit back and say absolutely nothing whereas before they just couldnt contain themselves from their outpourings of malice and prejudice on the subject.

this for me, all the we should apologise stuff always stuck in my craw! Apologise for what?
 
Absolute sickening. Confirms a lot of our suspicions over the years. This needs to be taken all of the way questions answered and any financial action available taken. Fuking rat bag basturds the lot of them. I await the full media coverage and news teams at Ibrox reporting such a scandal against our club.
 
The mentally challengeds are saying that HMRC never persued the higher tax compensation as there was no point as they are only dealing with pennies in the pound now and, wait for it, it’s a waste of taxpayers money.

Ha ha, so they are suggesting HMRC are being ‘pragmatic’ and are conceding because they would never get their money anyway?

Just like they were ‘pragmatic’ back in 2011 when Murray offered an initial payment of £10m and they rejected it on the basis they’d rather see the company go to the wall and receive pennies in the pound instead?

Aye, HMRC are renowned for their ‘pragmatism’ right enough.:rolleyes:
 
No doubt Tom English will be frantically flicking through his contacts book looking for 'experts' to consult.Here's hoping this is favourable to the club and that Dave King gives it full thrust of his sabre when pursuing the wrong uns.There surely has to be a valid argument for the amount of revenue lost by the club due to this 'error'.
I would imagine DK is on the case. Considering all the shit he’s had to endure from the authorities here. It’s time to give some back
 
Ha ha, so they are suggesting HMRC are being ‘pragmatic’ and are conceding because they would never get their money anyway?

Just like they were ‘pragmatic’ back in 2011 when Murray offered an initial payment of £10m and they rejected it on the basis they’d rather see the company go to the wall and receive pennies in the pound instead?

Aye, HMRC are renowned for their ‘pragmatism’ right enough.:rolleyes:
This is the line that the RTC and all the other bampots are using.
 
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

David Murray tried to settle the bill and offered HMRC £12 million and they refused. Yet they did a deal with Arsenal.

a CVA of £8.5 million was offered , but HMRC refused stating they were owed over £75 million .

it’s clear had the correctfigures been produced we might’ve not had to go through all this .

imo this was a concentrated attack on Rangers to either wipe us out or at least cripple us for years . This was a multi front attack from HMRC , politicians , mark daly and the bbc , Celtic bloggers and Celtic board members .
 
Personally, the only way a shitstorm happens is if our support create it and sadly I don’t see many having the appetite for it.
Maybe not on this news story in particular, but our supports ability to campagin/make a fuss over things compared to the mentally challengeds is why we dont see more things go our way. For example, Forbes blogger 2 weeks ago would have been much more harassed and thus potential consequences more severe. Bet there was less than 10 complaints about him.
 
Wish I could be feeling some righteous vindication just now but to be perfectly honest this is the most angry and gutted I've been since 2012.

I'm sure the rational part of my brain will kick in at some point later but right now I'd happily see Scottish football burned to the ground for us to get what we're due.
Exactly this, bud.
Last night I posted that the best I could hope for would be to take comfort from the now global knowledge that this was so absolutely unnecessary.
This morning though, this almost rational thought has turned into a burning anger.
Every poet who I come across today has got it tight, not with the usual “tainted” titles but with my change to “fraudulent” titles.
 
The mentally challengeds are saying that HMRC never persued the higher tax compensation as there was no point as they are only dealing with pennies in the pound now and, wait for it, it’s a waste of taxpayers money.

Surely it doesn’t matter if they chased it or not, they put that figure out there and that stopped anyone purchasing the club resulting in what then followed, job done
 
Surely if oldco isn't liquidated and Murray has grounds to sue, then doesn't that make it a bit of a nightmare?

Who owns oldco? If the action is successful and it can be proven it shouldn't have been liquidated, do they not have claim over assets that were therefore unnecessarily removed?

Strange one
I agree with this. Unless Murray and King come to some sort of agreement this may not be good news for us
 
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