Kent’s assist rate

[Polar bear]

He’s been a disappointment so far. He’ll come good again.

Other than the Scum games,when was he good before?

 

[Kennyr]

His assist rating would be far higher if we took more of our chances.

We miss an alarming amount of them.Kents not been great recently but he's laid plenty on a plate for others and they haven't put it away

 

[JW1988]

The only person with an ‘agenda’ in this thread is you

xA is meaningless in the context of results.
Morelos misses some amount of simple one on ones but we don’t hear how it’s alright because it adds to his xG stats

It’s simple. If our forwards were as bad as you’re making out it wouldn’t matter how many assists are expected from Borna or Tav because they simply wouldn’t score

It’s not just some freak coincidence that Kent hasn’t had an assist in the league for over a year. Especially when we’ve probably been the highest scoring team in that year

He still hasn’t backed up his claims that forest and Kent are level on assists v x assists either.

I’ve no doubt he creates chances. My doubt is over the quality and consistency in which he does it. 4 assists all season. Either there’s some cosmic force Against him, his teammates don’t want him to assist so miss or else maybe these x assists aren’t actually that great?

 

[Chris01]

19 league games
6 goals
0 assists

contrast and compare with Forrest
26 games
10 goals
16 assists

or Christie
22 games
11 assists
11 goals (takes penalties though)

or even Mcgregor
28 games
7 goals
7 assists


Grim reading

Kent would probably flourish playing the formation Celtic do. The managers formations contribute to those poor stats also.

 

[greggakd]

You also have to factor in Borna's assists. Every time Kent gets the ball and drags 2 or 3 defenders towards him it leaves lots of time and space for Borna to measure his crosses.

An awful lot of people don’t realise this about Ryan Kent. His assist numbers are low but provides so much more space for others. I’d like to see his assisting of assists numbers (if that makes sense) as I’m certain he would be the 3rd last to touch the ball in a lot of cases

 

[ascender]

He's going through a bad patch, but so is pretty much everyone else. I thought a spell on the bench might have helped, but looks like Gerrard has gone for the opposite approach - kind of like when Tav started missing penalties.

 

[SuperFuzz]

Is Kent got an issue with a lack of awareness of what's on around him or is he just backing himself and being confident he will score?

 

[JW1988]

Kent would probably flourish playing the formation Celtic do. The managers formations contribute to those poor stats also.

I’d wager most of our team would. But it’s not just the tactics. Celtic have a belief and swagger that we just don’t have. They treat teams like Aberdeen and Kilmarnock the way they should, we make them into some sort of huge challenge. A lot of it is psychological imo

 

[wilton99]

I don`t care where he plays, he will turn out to be a huge waste of money, but I hope the manager is big enough to admit his mistake, ship him out and cut our losses at the earliest opportunity, and in case anyone is wondering, I have never been a huge Kent fan and I was against his signing, especially for the ridiculous sum of £7m.

 

[andy5836]

He's set up good chances for his team mates, it's not his fault they aren't sticking them in the back of the net. People need to get off Kent's back.

 

[Gramps1]

I don`t care where he plays, he will turn out to be a huge waste of money, but I hope the manager is big enough to admit his mistake, ship him out and cut our losses at the earliest opportunity, and in case anyone is wondering, I have never been a huge Kent fan and I was against his signing, especially for the ridiculous sum of £7m.

Aye nae bother

 

[Coda]

Football isnt won on should, or would, its won with cold hard decisive statistics like Goals Scored, Assists et al.

If Messi scored 50 in a season, but Ronaldo scored 25, but Ronaldo had x less chances - who would win the golden boot?
If Kent assisted 0 and scored 6 - Forrest created 15 and scored 15 (cant recall the actual numbers) who is more effective and influencing game winning moments more?
Thats the basic principle of this argument, we arent looking for Einstein or Sheldon Cooper - we are looking at facts.

Your hypothetical scenario is nonsense.

The facts are, if we had Edouard and Griffiths, Kent would have more assists than zero. That's the bit that people like you are missing, and seem to be totally failing to understand how xG and xA works.

 

[brain]

Your hypothetical scenario is nonsense.

The facts are, if we had Edouard and Griffiths, Kent would have more assists than zero. That's the bit that people like you are missing, and seem to be totally failing to understand how xG and xA works.

And what’s your explanation for why Barisic, Tavernier and Aribo haven’t had such rotten luck with their chances not being converted?

 

[jackstar]

Won't be writing him off just yet but the boy needs to up his game considerably.

Maybe a spell on the sidelines is what's required , he has ability but his confidence looks shot.

Hardly surprising considering our 2020 form, as a whole , has been howling.

Not enough players making runs and as said Borna is a big miss for him because they link up well and create space for each other. He'll come good again,but you can level.that same criticism at most of the team.

 

[Coda]

The only person with an ‘agenda’ in this thread is you

xA is meaningless in the context of results.
Morelos misses some amount of simple one on ones but we don’t hear how it’s alright because it adds to his xG stats

It’s simple. If our forwards were as bad as you’re making out it wouldn’t matter how many assists are expected from Borna or Tav because they simply wouldn’t score

It’s not just some freak coincidence that Kent hasn’t had an assist in the league for over a year. Especially when we’ve probably been the highest scoring team in that year

The only agenda I have is being objective on the matter. Too many people wanting to use anecdotal evidence and personal agendas.

If Morelos xG was far higher than his actual number of goals, that would tell you that he's either continually coming up against world class goalkeepers, or his finishing needs to better. Having a considerably higher xG than goals is not a good thing, just for the avoidance of doubt.

xA is only meaningless if you're too dim to understand it. It tells you far more of the overall picture than assist stats in isolation. Kent hasn't been good enough this year, but the xA shows that he's been better than the traditional stats suggest. Your point about Barisic and Tav once again highlights that you don't actually understand what you're talking about.

 

[Coda]

And what’s your explanation for why Barisic, Tavernier and Aribo haven’t had such rotten luck with their chances not being converted?

Did you intentionally miss the bit where their expected assist stats were posted? They should have considerably more assists than they currently do.

In 20 games, Kent should have 8, Tav should have 28, Borna around 25. There's no available stats on Aribo. Even allowing for margin of error and that no one is ever going to have a 100% assist to xA stat, our finishing needs to be far better than the stats show. People are wilfully ignoring that fact in order to have a dig that suits the narrative that they've already settled on.

Borna and Tav have better assists by sheer numbers, but the conversion of the chances they setup is still very poor, and far poorer than Celtic. Hence why the league position.

Last year, Candeias should have had 3 times the number of assists, but for poor finishing. Binning Candeias was literally shooting the messenger.

 

[RfcIbrox]

Our attackers are not better than theirs.
Our wide players are not better than theirs.
Our midfield isn’t better than theirs.

That is what the stats show.

One of our worst performers in midfield/wide Attacking positions is Kent with about 5/6 goals and zero assists.
No matter how you try to spin that it is fucking dreadful.

At £7m it is dreadful. There’s no other conclusion. The real issue is if he is a decent player (which he clearly is) then what else is the explanation over a decent sample of 19 games. Formation and tactics?

 

[BlueSevenTwo]

League assists are shocking but his goals tally is also not great.

And there lies a major problem , we have relied on Morelos for goals all season which papered over the cracks , now he’s off form the lack of goals from elsewhere is glaringly obvious.
Hate saying this but contrast that with Celtic , perfect example being they have a centre half who won the game for them last week and scores an important goal yesterday , goals from all over the park.

 

[Jaws II]

At £7m it is dreadful. There’s no other conclusion. The real issue is if he is a decent player (which he clearly is) then what else is the explanation over a decent sample of 19 games. Formation and tactics?

Arfield, Aribo, Ojo, Morelos, Haji , Tav and Barisic all have better assist records in the league than Kent.

 

[MtV blue]

What’s the stats for David Templeton.

 

[BlueSevenTwo]

What’s the stats for David Templeton.

Would that be his injury stats?

 

[tazzabear]

19 games and 0 assists in the league. We knew what we were getting after last season and this is Gerrard's responsibility. The guy's end product is very poor.

Have you considered any chances he’s created that haven’t been converted?
I truly hate the “assist” stat as it’s so easily skewed.

 

[Jaws II]

Have you considered any chances he’s created that haven’t been converted?
I truly hate the “assist” stat as it’s so easily skewed.

Why have all the other players I mentioned all have better assist rates.
Is Morelos and Defoe deliberately missing chances created by Kent?

 

[Coda]

Why have all the other players I mentioned all have better assist rates.
Is Morelos and Defoe deliberately missing chances created by Kent?

Being deliberately obtuse really suits you.

 

[TheBlueBlazerV3]

And what’s your explanation for why Barisic, Tavernier and Aribo haven’t had such rotten luck with their chances not being converted?

I am not missing your point, but if we had De Bruyne we would have more midfield assists - its all ifs and buts. I completely understand that he can only assist if someone scores - however - 63 league goals, and he has not a single assist - it is rank rotten. He needs to contribute more in all forms of his game, yes “chances created” would be a fairer way to judge him, but life isn’t fair - and I dare say he would still be outwith the top 3 for chances created in our team regardless which isnt good enough.

 

[tazzabear]

Why have all the other players I mentioned all have better assist rates.
Is Morelos and Defoe deliberately missing chances created by Kent?

Are you seriously asking if I believe this to be the case?
Maybe I should ask my question another way!
It’s said that the best form of defence is attack.
Is this what you're doing?
You haven’t considered it so need to debunk it?

 

[Coda]

And there lies a major problem , we have relied on Morelos for goals all season which papered over the cracks , now he’s off form the lack of goals from elsewhere is glaringly obvious.
Hate saying this but contrast that with Celtic , perfect example being they have a centre half who won the game for them last week and scores an important goal yesterday , goals from all over the park.

Exactly. Our finishing from other areas of the park is woefully bad. Players are getting chances and not taking them, yet some of the brain donors on here want to blame the player creating the chances.

 

[RfcIbrox]

Arfield, Aribo, Ojo, Morelos, Haji , Tav and Barisic all have better assist records in the league than Kent.

So in his defence (because there is talent there) he always has 2 players at least on him. Theoretically that should create space on the outside or inside but he has a tendency to neutralise that advantage (occupying 2 defenders) by slowing down, turning inside and laying the ball back. By which time opposing defenders regroup and shuffle along. Perhaps he should stick out on the touchline and let someone else work inside although narrow pitches don’t help that. Either way if SG can’t fix the problem he needs dropped because 0 assists is dreadful whoever’s fault it is. I also don’t get the wide player (Barisic) crossing argument. It’s pretty well established wide crosses into the box don’t create many goals these days. Perhaps the answer is to play him only in certain games where teams press us more giving us transition opportunities and he can use his pace ie against the scum, Hibs away, europe, big pitches like Hampden or at home. And drop him for other games.

 

[tazzabear]

Did you intentionally miss the bit where their expected assist stats were posted? They should have considerably more assists than they currently do.

In 20 games, Kent should have 8, Tav should have 28, Borna around 25. There's no available stats on Aribo. Even allowing for margin of error and that no one is ever going to have a 100% assist to xA stat, our finishing needs to be far better than the stats show. People are wilfully ignoring that fact in order to have a dig that suits the narrative that they've already settled on.

Borna and Tav have better assists by sheer numbers, but the conversion of the chances they setup is still very poor, and far poorer than Celtic. Hence why the league position.

Last year, Candeias should have had 3 times the number of assists, but for poor finishing. Binning Candeias was literally shooting the messenger.

I missed this.
I’ve never read such a thing!

 

[Coda]

I am not missing your point, but if we had De Bruyne we would have more midfield assists - its all ifs and buts. I completely understand that he can only assist if someone scores - however - 63 league goals, and he has not a single assist - it is rank rotten. He needs to contribute more in all forms of his game, yes “chances created” would be a fairer way to judge him, but life isn’t fair - and I dare say he would still be outwith the top 3 for chances created in our team regardless which isnt good enough.

This isn't some hard life lesson. It's judging a player based on meaningful stats, not the meaningless stats that we've all grown up on. All these stats matter when you have folk wanting to bin a player for something that he has no control over.

Kent would be top of our assists if the chances he created had been scored. The idea that he's to blame for that is exasperatingly stupid.

 

[Coda]

I missed this.
I’ve never read such a thing!

Yep, Tav and Borna have better numbers purely by volume of crosses, but the two of them should actually be sitting on quite a few more if we were more proficient in front of goal.

Kamberi should have an assist after his flick on for Alfie yesterday, but going by the logic of some of the people in this thread, that's Kamberi's fault, not Alfie's.

 

[CaliBear]

Which bit of that are you struggling to understand? If the actual assist and expected assist are the same, that shows the attackers of one team are proficient, and the attackers of another are not. Very simple. If given the same strikers, both would have the same stats.

A lot of people with a lot to say in this thread, but clearly can't understand simple logic.

You say that Kents expected assists are the same as Forrests actual assists so they are the same quality. You are failing to take into account that its highly unlikely that Forrest has a 100% assist/conversion rate so he has put in crosses/passes that the strikers have also missed. So what is Forrests EXPECTED assists? is it the same as KDB actual assists and therefore he is of equal quality to KDB?

What you dont seem to fully grasp, we dont give a fvck about EXPECTED....

 

[D-Von]

The only agenda I have is being objective on the matter. Too many people wanting to use anecdotal evidence and personal agendas.

If Morelos xG was far higher than his actual number of goals, that would tell you that he's either continually coming up against world class goalkeepers, or his finishing needs to better. Having a considerably higher xG than goals is not a good thing, just for the avoidance of doubt.

xA is only meaningless if you're too dim to understand it. It tells you far more of the overall picture than assist stats in isolation. Kent hasn't been good enough this year, but the xA shows that he's been better than the traditional stats suggest. Your point about Barisic and Tav once again highlights that you don't actually understand what you're talking about.

Mate people understand xA and xG. It’s not something that’s hard to understand. You’re no doubt using one of the football accounts on twitter who have their own model to generate these stats. Another account will have different stats because they see it differently. The same way clubs go for different players with different ‘stats’ because they have their own models of calculating what is a good chance, a good defensive play etc.

You can’t blame everyone else for not being good enough to finish of assists from Kent.
So everyone somehow misses when it’s a pass from Kent( For over a a calendar year) but can do it when it’s a pass from Tav, Borna, Aribo, Arfield...

You’re making yourself look like an utter fud.

 

[Robbie]

Running forward at pace for 40-50 yards,then stopping and passing the ball backwards doesn’t help,maybe when the rest of the team realise how to play off him it may change.

 

[georgeclooney]

Let's face it stats are just that. Nobody remembers who has the best passing stats or on target stats it's about scoring more goals than your opponent in front of you.

 

[BlueSevenTwo]

Let's face it stats are just that. Nobody remembers who has the best passing stats or on target stats it's about scoring more goals than your opponent in front of you.

You should have taken the team talk yesterday because clearly our players didn’t get the logic behind that.

 

[nasalsinatra]

I would like to see Ryan being more direct. Dropping the left shoulder and moving inside just clogs up space. He needs to stay wide and go on the outside more often, like he did at Hamilton recently. He will come good.

 

[blueismycolour]

He’s been a disappointment so far. He’ll come good again.

It's too bloody late for this season though.

 

[Coda]

Mate people understand xA and xG. It’s not something that’s hard to understand. You’re no doubt using one of the football accounts on twitter who have their own model to generate these stats. Another account will have different stats because they see it differently. The same way clubs go for different players with different ‘stats’ because they have their own models of calculating what is a good chance, a good defensive play etc.

You can’t blame everyone else for not being good enough to finish of assists from Kent.
So everyone somehow misses when it’s a pass from Kent( For over a a calendar year) but can do it when it’s a pass from Tav, Borna, Aribo, Arfield...

You’re making yourself look like an utter fud.

If it's not hard to understand, why are people like you making such an utter arse of understanding it? Curious to note that i'm the fud, because you can't grasp a basic concept. A novel take on things, but completely consistent with your desire to blame Kent for others not finishing the chances he creates.

I thought this place had reached peak retard as well.

 

[Coda]

You say that Kents expected assists are the same as Forrests actual assists so they are the same quality. You are failing to take into account that its highly unlikely that Forrest has a 100% assist/conversion rate so he has put in crosses/passes that the strikers have also missed. So what is Forrests EXPECTED assists? is it the same as KDB actual assists and therefore he is of equal quality to KDB?

What you dont seem to fully grasp, we dont give a fvck about EXPECTED....

It's already been mentioned that Forests assists and xA are very close. He typically gets the rewards for his endeavours.

If you don't give a %^*& about expected stats, then you're a simpleton, as they're very important at telling the overall story as to where the problems lie.

Next.

 

[brain]

Did you intentionally miss the bit where their expected assist stats were posted? They should have considerably more assists than they currently do.

In 20 games, Kent should have 8, Tav should have 28, Borna around 25. There's no available stats on Aribo. Even allowing for margin of error and that no one is ever going to have a 100% assist to xA stat, our finishing needs to be far better than the stats show. People are wilfully ignoring that fact in order to have a dig that suits the narrative that they've already settled on.

Borna and Tav have better assists by sheer numbers, but the conversion of the chances they setup is still very poor, and far poorer than Celtic. Hence why the league position.

Last year, Candeias should have had 3 times the number of assists, but for poor finishing. Binning Candeias was literally shooting the messenger.

I didn’t miss that no. I agree with you that our finishing isn’t good enough and I agree with you that stats like xA and xG are valuable. I just see that Kent has far fewer assists than many of our own players, and although his numbers are artificially low at this moment in time it does tie in with the anecdotal evidence (for me) that his final ball is poor far too often and he doesn’t need pose much goal threat.

 

[Coda]

I didn’t miss that no. I agree with you that our finishing isn’t good enough and I agree with you that stats like xA and xG are valuable. I just see that Kent has far fewer assists than many of our own players, and although his numbers are artificially low at this moment in time it does tie in with the anecdotal evidence (for me) that his final ball is poor far too often and he doesn’t need pose much goal threat.

Fair enough. We're in agreement that he needs to do better, but I wouldn't be pulling the trigger just yet on punting him, like many want to do, as I think the 0 in 19 is a bit unfair on him.

 

[DaveC]

I like Kent, bags of skill, loves the big games.

We were utterly utterly robbed at £7m though.

 

[tazzabear]

Yep, Tav and Borna have better numbers purely by volume of crosses, but the two of them should actually be sitting on quite a few more if we were more proficient in front of goal.

Kamberi should have an assist after his flick on for Alfie yesterday, but going by the logic of some of the people in this thread, that's Kamberi's fault, not Alfie's.

The perfect example.
it puzzles me how many people persist with quoting stats without looking at contributory factors.
Madness.

 

[brain]

Have you considered any chances he’s created that haven’t been converted?
I truly hate the “assist” stat as it’s so easily skewed.

A bit of a silly question mate. Of course all the chances he creates aren’t converted, but everyone in the team is in the same boat there and 0 in 19 is obviously significant even if he should have had a few. For comparison Aribo has 7 in the league and has played further back the pitch for most of the season. No single stat tells the whole story in isolation but when a stat is particularly damning it can’t be dismissed as irrelevant.

 

[brain]

Fair enough. We're in agreement that he needs to do better, but I wouldn't be pulling the trigger just yet on punting him, like many want to do, as I think the 0 in 19 is a bit unfair on him.

In my opinion he’d make an excellent right winger but he is poor more often than not centrally.

 

[tazzabear]

A bit of a silly question mate. Of course all the chances he creates aren’t converted, but everyone in the team is in the same boat there and 0 in 19 is obviously significant even if he should have had a few. For comparison Aribo has 7 in the league and has played further back the pitch for most of the season. No single stat tells the whole story in isolation but when a stat is particularly damning it can’t be dismissed as irrelevant.

I don’t get how my question is stupid.
I’m reading stats condemning the player, waste of money etc, and think it fair to ask if other factors are being considered.
Surely that’s not stupid.
Is the stupid thing not considering other factors in the first place?

 

[TheBlueBlazerV3]

This isn't some hard life lesson. It's judging a player based on meaningful stats, not the meaningless stats that we've all grown up on. All these stats matter when you have folk wanting to bin a player for something that he has no control over.

Kent would be top of our assists if the chances he created had been scored. The idea that he's to blame for that is exasperatingly stupid.

I would be pretty sure that based on all quality chances created, it would be Tav or Borna top surely?

 

[Otis Blue]

Are lack of assists also not to do with bad finishing ? like Tav last night skying it over the bar from a great cross by Kent.

 

[tazzabear]

A bit of a silly question mate. Of course all the chances he creates aren’t converted, but everyone in the team is in the same boat there and 0 in 19 is obviously significant even if he should have had a few. For comparison Aribo has 7 in the league and has played further back the pitch for most of the season. No single stat tells the whole story in isolation but when a stat is particularly damning it can’t be dismissed as irrelevant.

Well, thats not the case.
Absolutely not the case.
A lot more is expected, demanded, of Kent than any other player we have, Morelos aside.