GF1872
Well-Known Member
You keep comparing the seasons, the problem isn’t the total number of points it’s the way we have collapsed after Xmas for the second year running. Also the fact when we are on a run we’ve not got past 5 I think it is.
Walters last season v this season at same stage
- Thread starter Nathan9719972
- Start date
You keep comparing the seasons, the problem isn’t the total number of points it’s the way we have collapsed after Xmas for the second year running. Also the fact when we are on a run we’ve not got past 5 I think it is.
Agree . Biggest mistake we can now make is panic and ditch Gerrard.
It took Kloop 4 - yes 4 seasons to succeed at Liverpool. Let’s at least give Steven next year.
Bluenose25
Well-Known Member
Doesn't mean much as the filth are better now than ten years ago. We need to be at the same level as them to compete which sadly we still aren't.
HandsomeHead
Well-Known Member
And another point is that all that progress was made up until the new year.
Since then we’ve actually been regressing, alarmingly so.
I think that’s what most are reacting to.
It’s been unexpected and baffling and shows no signs of coming to an end and that’s when supporters inevitably turn to the guy in charge and start asking just what in the hell he’s doing to change it for the better.
Rudolph Hucker
Well-Known Member
Oh, that’s ok then. We’re level on points with a side from a random season which went on to win the league. There was me thinking months of insipid, cowardly performances mid-season against absolute dross for the 2nd year in a row was unacceptable when in fact it’s fine since we managed to win the league from a similar position once upon a time.
Hal B. Goode
Well-Known Member
I think Walter's policy upon taking the job in his second spell of buying good Scottish players contributed to his success.
Having guys in that squad who knew what it means to play for Rangers and, importantly, how vital it is to win domestic honours is what I believe is required.
Having guys in that squad who knew what it means to play for Rangers and, importantly, how vital it is to win domestic honours is what I believe is required.
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
Has it? Check out the other squads in the league from then.
What has happened is Celtic has got ridiculously strong compared to then.
CaptainCourageous
Well-Known Member
The 2010/11 season where Walter Smith's total spend was less than what Ryan Kent cost. We played Champions League football, dropped into the Europa League and took out Sporting CP then went out Last 16 to PSV.
Oh, we also won the league title and weren't out of it by January/February.
Comparing a point half way through a season 10 years ago to now is just a bit desperate really.
Oh, we also won the league title and weren't out of it by January/February.
Comparing a point half way through a season 10 years ago to now is just a bit desperate really.
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
Who would they be then?
Until what? Does football end after next season?
Casper Kent
Well-Known Member
The quality of other teams.
Hal B. Goode
Well-Known Member
Weir, Thomson, Whittaker, Naismith and, to a lesser extent, Lee McCulloch.
(Add Davis to that list, perhaps, as he came in on loan in 2007).
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
I meant players to sign and have in the side now
Tagsbear
Well-Known Member
In what way have the opposition regressed? How is that measured?
Tagsbear
Well-Known Member
In what way were they better?
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
You dont think it's anything to do with Celtic having better players rather than having guys like Stokes and Samaras up front for them and glenn loovens, thomas rogne and daniel majstorovic in defence?
Mr. T.
Well-Known Member
Before what? Winning the League? We all turn into pumpkins? The end of the World? Calm down.
R
RobbenHood
Guest
The gulf between us/Celtic and the rest of the teams is arguably bigger than it was 10 years ago.
Don’t think a Walter Smith team would’ve thrown away 8 points from winning positions in the manner we have recently. The sickening thing part is that it’s not even surprising anymore
Don’t think a Walter Smith team would’ve thrown away 8 points from winning positions in the manner we have recently. The sickening thing part is that it’s not even surprising anymore
sandbankbear
Well-Known Member
And beat them in a cup final
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
This thread invites too much navel gazing, the harsh truth is up until late December two seasons in a row we have gone from challenging the filth to self destructing...What happed to once bitten twice shy?
The manner of this collapse would seem to be that the players aren’t playing for the manager, the manager has favourites, whilst throwing others under the bus. He has pretty much marginalised all the decent young Scottish players we had and replaced them with guys who don’t seem to have the 38 game commitment to the cause.
SG was a risk, was the boards risk mitigation in taking a young guy who’s just finished his playing career and giving him such a high profile, high pressure role? Referees and officialdom haven’t changed their cheating ways due to his global profile, we are not winning the league and the club is still in the cycle of being emasculated that it has been in for the best part of twenty years.
Many point to the European improvement but other than bringing in money, what has it actually achieved? It has effectively delivered a second CL place which in real terms means even if we had usurped the filth for this years title they’d still have a route to the big table therefore potentially cementing their fiscal advantage.
The league should have been made the managers prime and only goal, blending a team for Europe and the SPL from scratch I think was a bridge too far. Europe to me has been a vanity project for which we have sacrificed the league, when winning the league and shutting them out of the CL qualification route should have been everything.
The board seem to have let SG do as he pleases instead of guiding him as a young manager as to what their priority should have been. In hindsight perhaps it would have been prudent to get an experienced winning manager in and set him a very clear and specific agenda...Win the league and in doing so stop the filth!!
The manner of this collapse would seem to be that the players aren’t playing for the manager, the manager has favourites, whilst throwing others under the bus. He has pretty much marginalised all the decent young Scottish players we had and replaced them with guys who don’t seem to have the 38 game commitment to the cause.
SG was a risk, was the boards risk mitigation in taking a young guy who’s just finished his playing career and giving him such a high profile, high pressure role? Referees and officialdom haven’t changed their cheating ways due to his global profile, we are not winning the league and the club is still in the cycle of being emasculated that it has been in for the best part of twenty years.
Many point to the European improvement but other than bringing in money, what has it actually achieved? It has effectively delivered a second CL place which in real terms means even if we had usurped the filth for this years title they’d still have a route to the big table therefore potentially cementing their fiscal advantage.
The league should have been made the managers prime and only goal, blending a team for Europe and the SPL from scratch I think was a bridge too far. Europe to me has been a vanity project for which we have sacrificed the league, when winning the league and shutting them out of the CL qualification route should have been everything.
The board seem to have let SG do as he pleases instead of guiding him as a young manager as to what their priority should have been. In hindsight perhaps it would have been prudent to get an experienced winning manager in and set him a very clear and specific agenda...Win the league and in doing so stop the filth!!
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
Funny after a few bad results how everyone has turned.
Aye we've been poor since Christmas but if it hadn't been for some very dodgy refereeing decisions over the course, it'd be nowhere near 12 points and the title race would still be on.
The difference here is that Celtic are allowed to play bad and still scrape wins. When we play poorly, ie. Kilmarnock we're not good enough to compensate for the poor performance and a two goal swing changing the game (their hand ball goal and Morelos' disallowed goal). They get a token penalty against Ross County which changed the game and Griffiths' stamp at Hamilton was allowed, then Hamilton go a man down etc.
These things add up.
Aye we've been poor since Christmas but if it hadn't been for some very dodgy refereeing decisions over the course, it'd be nowhere near 12 points and the title race would still be on.
The difference here is that Celtic are allowed to play bad and still scrape wins. When we play poorly, ie. Kilmarnock we're not good enough to compensate for the poor performance and a two goal swing changing the game (their hand ball goal and Morelos' disallowed goal). They get a token penalty against Ross County which changed the game and Griffiths' stamp at Hamilton was allowed, then Hamilton go a man down etc.
These things add up.
We need to distance ourselves from the obsession over this. We all want us to be a dominant force in Scotland again. It will take time but patience is key.
I want us to do it next year as much as anyone else, but if we don’t I’ll be just as happy if we do it the following year. Yes, they will have won 10IAR but it’s not like they have triumphed over us for 10 years in a row is it? Patience bears, it will come... we are on the right track.
Burgh-Ger
Well-Known Member
the obsession with 9 in a row or 10 in a row is driving people nuts!!
we have played badly since the turn of the year, we had stand out players who have collectively dropped in form.
as a squad we are far better than last year and considerably better than the year before!
SG is now a target for some on here and tactics are being questioned however, it was the tactics that resulted in 20+ attempts on goal yesterday.
Katic (follow follow favourite) had a stinker on one of the worst pitches I have seen in a long while! Is that SG’s fault?
we are progressing, folk can’t see it - but we are!!
looway
Well-Known Member
Before Souness arrived we weren't in the running for the league for years. He didn't need time, what he did was sign players good enough to have us winners in a year. That is what is missing from us. It looks like our players don't have what it takes. If our league is poorer now why are we unable to win more?
Nathan9719972
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately we don’t have the finances as we did back then, throwing money at the problem will only create mores problems. These days managers don’t come in and win trophies straight away. Football has changed
BoyInRoyalBlue
Well-Known Member
Those are not the stats that matter,.
The league table is what matters.
People need to stop going through mental gymnastics to try and stick up for the manager and team when they don't deserve it.
The league table is what matters.
People need to stop going through mental gymnastics to try and stick up for the manager and team when they don't deserve it.
Portals_Bear_Blue
Well-Known Member
No it does not mate. You quite happy for them to win 10?
HenningBerg
Well-Known Member
This means nothing to me , ah no idea why anyone thinks it’s relevant .
Portals_Bear_Blue
Well-Known Member
Not sure if you’ve realised but they’ll be going for 10 in a row next season
I know I’m not happy about the thought of that
We’ve been hearing this for 3 years.
BigBuff
Well-Known Member
Exactly if they get it fine, we are more obsessed about them getting 10 than they are
The Gerrard rebuild was never going to be easy he is up against a team who know how to win, we need to stay calm we are getting there
JimmysGers
Well-Known Member
Walter Smith wasn’t facing a Celtic side that was 9 years in the making and conditioned to winning.
He never once faced a Celtic side showing the same ruthless consistency as the current one.
Midfield General
Well-Known Member
Correct but there will be plenty along shortly telling you that all the teams were much better back then and would give Barcelona a run for their money.
The truth is it was slightly easier back then as the teams were not totally defensive as they are now.
Y
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately we wont be signing Harry Kane, which is the equivalent to what Souness was able to do for a number of reasons which are impossible now.
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
I dont care if they win 10.
I care about us getting into a position where we can win the league. Panicking and ripping things up is not going to assist with that.
Forget about what they are doing. It is irrelevant to our progress.
quintessenti-Al
Active Member
We had made great progress and we have improved from where we were when Gerrard took over but the post Christmas slump is a real worry. We have totally collapsed and if we can't get through in Europe or against Hearts this weekend then our season is over at the start of March.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
What is this latest myth all about that's creeping into FF about the league being stronger 10 years ago than it is now (when comparing our points totals etc)?
The league was f*cking rotten back then as well. It's not any better or any worse.
Our main problem is Celtic are relentless and there's been a huge swing in points in recent months due to bad refereeing decisions.
The league was f*cking rotten back then as well. It's not any better or any worse.
Our main problem is Celtic are relentless and there's been a huge swing in points in recent months due to bad refereeing decisions.
sheddensbear
Well-Known Member
I admire your optimism, but your wrong for the following reasons
Celtic now are much stronger and less likely to drop points.
The opposition has regressed and don't expect to take points of Celtic.
WS put a huge emphasis on attitude. Guys like Naismith,Weir, Thomson,Boogie had a much better winners mentality. Put those 4 in our present team and we're much stronger.
I was always critical of WS because it wasn't pretty to watch, but he knew how to win. Can you imaging this team going down to 9 men ?
Celtic now are much stronger and less likely to drop points.
The opposition has regressed and don't expect to take points of Celtic.
WS put a huge emphasis on attitude. Guys like Naismith,Weir, Thomson,Boogie had a much better winners mentality. Put those 4 in our present team and we're much stronger.
I was always critical of WS because it wasn't pretty to watch, but he knew how to win. Can you imaging this team going down to 9 men ?
RedWhiteBlue
Well-Known Member
As someone who also loves stats and making these kinds of comparisons I have to say that Thursday and Sunday have changed my mind somewhat.
Looking over Walter's last season in charge there are some horrendously bad results.
3 defeats at home. (Tims, Hibs, Dundee Utd).
3-0 loss at Parkhead.
100% Follow Follow would have been grim reading back in those days.
However, you also have to look at performances.
Since we came back in January we seem to just waste the entire 1st half of matches.
Like we don't really get started until after half-time.
This is worrying.
In January to February in Smith's last season we dropped 9 points across 8 league games.
These 3 defeats were punctuated however by a 4-0 vs Hamilton (3-0 at HT).
2-0 vs Hibs (2-0 at HT)
6-0 vs Motherwell (3-0 at HT)
It also probably matters to some extent how and when points get dropped.
Smith started 2010-11 with 9 wins in a row and 31 points out of the first 33.
We ended the season with 1 draw and 9 wins in the last 10.
The last 4 games of the season we were coming out and burying teams. The last 3 games were basically over before half time.
We aren't seeing that here.
I would say take the focus away from where we have dropped points since the break and look at the nature of the performances when we have got the 3 points.
St Mirren was a dreadful performance, Ross County not much better, Hibs we did well to turn it around but first half was dreadful, Livingston was dreadful too with another lazy and uninspired first half.
The league is gone for this season. Sure, we can look at our points total, our performance in Europe and our improvement in the cups as positives. I also think our overall play in the early part of the season was much improved. However, if we carry these current performances into the next season then things are going to go horribly wrong very, very, quickly.
The last time we scored a goal in the first 30 minutes of a league match was away at Hibs. 11 league matches ago. We just are not coming into matches with any urgency or drive and the end result is that 1/3rd of every match is just wasted time.
Smith's team dropped points for sure but they also had 2 extended winning runs that season and they were killing matches off when we got in front.
I'll be as disappointed as I would be any other year they win the league. The number is irrelevant.
Does them winning 10 make Lennon greater than Walter? Does it make their players greater or better than our 9IAR players? Does it mean Laudrup was shite?
Even Celtic fans would concede none of that is the case.
I don't know about any of you but it won't change how I feel about our past achievements. Unless it changes anything for you, I don't see why the number for them matters to you either.
RenfrewBear72
Well-Known Member
Harsh truth, Walter knows how to win titles and cups.
Thornliebank_Bear
Well-Known Member
Or half a dozen bent refs that will do everything possible to make sure the tims win it.
SPL is garbage now, a historical low.
Livibear
Well-Known Member
It’s got nothing to do with their ten in a row and all to do with the fact we’ve won NOTHING.
That’s two seasons in a row we’ve collapsed after Christmas in the league - no progress
We are still struggling against physical teams - no progress
We are still struggling against teams who stick ten men behind the ball - no progress
We at least made a Cup Final, but then proceeded to make a rip roaring lady's front bottom of it.
Umpteen players have been consistently rewarded for failure with bumper contracts after half a dozen good games, despite the fact they’re already on long term contracts. How about telling them they’ll get a pay rise when they walk into the office with a medal round their necks?
We’re just as bad by the way! Jumping about sucking each other’s cocks after beating them at Ibrox in December 2018 and last December also, despite the fact it it was only one game and meant %^*& all.
Rant over.
Thornliebank_Bear
Well-Known Member
Did we not do it in europe ?
ufa or something.
I get your point about the big game players its a fair one but walter didnt need to deal with an incredible amount of corruption, although the guy that done the game you mention was bent.
You can see the apathy, the woeful EL qualifier results, the hoof ball, and the fact no one buys players, they have no cash.
