Honeymoon Is Over For The Manger Next Season

The performances in Europe weren't down to us having more even-handed referees, it was down to the pressure being off because they know there isn't a chance of us winning the competition so it's a bonus. Ryan Kent, Ryan Jack and Taverner are 3 players who have said it publicly. It's a mentality thing.
Unfortunately, any player who voices or admits to struggling mentally at Ibrox, should be them signing their exit from the club. Mentality is a big part of playing for us and the crash barriers, and if you're admitting the mentality isn't there, then it needs to be goodbye. For the captain to publicise it, was heartbreaking. As that just does every tinpot teams team talk against us. The gaffer should really be laying down the law to them in that respect. Also, mentality wise, he was a beast. Surely, he must see the lack of it in our side? Is it purely finances that stop him hunting the mentally weak? I'm not so sure. He made Tav captain, and hasn't removed it. He must obviously be happy with the guys mentality.
 
Europe is secondary.

He needs to win a trophy, and it has to be at least the league otherwise we're just floating in mediocrity season after season.

Unacceptable!

That is absolute nonsense and shows such a lack of understanding of the situation it blows my mind

We get around £100k for winning a trophy in Scotland.

Qualifying for european groups gets us upwards of £15m

Getting into the groups is essential.
 
Let’s say it’s not pressure then - are we saying that the players he’s brought in aren’t good enough, or that Gerrard’s tactically poor and/or inflexible domestically?

You could very well argue the team is more suited to playing in Europe. Infact, I would be inclined to agree with that. He also needs to become more flexible in domestic football and realise it's a different type of game to Europe.

I don't think he's stupid enough not to realise that though. The lack of flexibility is probably down to what Gerrard perceives as a lack of options and players that he trusts. Also, we don't have much time to working on the training field on different shapes etc either when we are playing Thu / Sun every week and just recovering in between.

I started plenty of threads even when things were going well saying we should play 3-5-2 in more domestic games etc.

Not many fans were moaning about the 433 and lack of flexibility though when at Xmas we stopped with the best points total we have had after half a season than god knows how long.

So yeah, there are obvious areas we still need to improve in and Gerrard needs to improve on as well but I just can't take seriously the dafties who play the sh*tebags card and no improvement card etc.
 
Nobody says you shouldn't have an opinion. I'm literally asking for your opinion.
I dont know to be honest. I dont have a list of who is available or what we have to spend so any input i have would be a guess, i also dont follow much football anymore apart from us so picking a manager from nowhere would make no sense.
Im not saying Gerrard has to go now but i am in the camp of not being convinced by him. Over the last two seasons he hasnt shown me much in terms of managerial prowess, i dont think he knows how to change a game, he picks a team and what happens happens win or lose.
I want any manager to be succesful no matter who they are and i hope this year Gerrard can be that man but i just cant see it. Its a new season so fingers crossed i am wrong and i hope i am
 
I'm a Gerrard fan and totally agree that he has to go if we don't win it next year (TBF, he's going to leave either way). This was always a three-year project and was never going to be an overnight thing given the absolute pits of a setup he inherited. The board has clearly made the title in year three a goal. The European performances and pre-Christmas form buys him one more tilt at that.

I expected a trophy this season and was disappointed in the Scottish Cup. No dressing that up. The League Cup I can write off as an aberration as that final against them was just inimitably demented. The league performance post-Christmas was worrying but who knows how that would have turned out in the end.

The club has been in a really bizarre place in recent times where it's transitioned to not being, like, a basket case. The role Gerrard has played in that cannot be overstated. He has done wonders in terms of improving the facilities and general mentality of the club. The training centre, for all we like to talk about it being a world-class facility, was dilapidated and Ibrox on match day was a joke. He really fought to get them both up to par because he was used to that at Liverpool. Other managers perhaps wouldn't.

We have our pride back after the performances in Europe and players have been improved to the point where we now have many assets. Let's also not forget how much of a PR masterstroke it's been by the board to get him in terms of improving our image down south, where if we're being honest, we had become nobodies again. There's much more of an interest in the club which was something that we really required. Our image was terrible before he arrived.

Regardless, you can't just use trophies as a measure of a success of a Rangers manager over the past few seasons. "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing at Rangers" etc. might have been a nice soundbite 10 years ago, but nah, that sort of privilege is utterly stupid when we're trying to rebuild our club while up against one of the best Celtic teams in recent memory. Now? Maybe it makes a bit more sense, but there's still a huge gap in terms of the wage bill.

Buzzing for next season already. I'm convinced he'll do it.

He signed up for 4 years and extended by a year (or two?)

So dont talk rot.
 
He signed up for 4 years and extended by a year (or two?)

So dont talk rot.

Because manger contracts really mean something in modern football, don't they? If they do the 10 there is not a chance he remains. If we win the league, then maybe, but I suspect he'll want to go out a hero.
 
This seasons collapse had more to do with losing half of our team to injury and suspension at the one time I would have thought. Helander, Tav, Barisic and Defoe. Morelos getting a 4 game ban then coming back unfit. Ryan Jack playing through injuries.

There are mitigating circumstances outwith the team just being a bunch of sh*tebags.

Exactly. Even Hagi ended up injured and playing through it.

The Vydra deal collapsing when it did was huge.

Left us up the creek without a paddle.
 
Exactly. Even Hagi ended up injured and playing through it.

The Vydra deal collapsing when it did was huge.

Left us up the creek without a paddle.

Not getting Vydra was massive. He would have made a huge difference for us at a time when we were utterly toothless up front.
 
Because manger contracts really mean something in modern football, don't they? If they do the 10 there is not a chance he remains. If we win the league, then maybe, but I suspect he'll want to go out a hero.

You said it was always a 3 year project.

It clearly wasnt.
 
I don't disagree with that. But rewriting the narrative around season 03/04 to do Gerrard's achievements down is piss poor. It was a really weird point he was trying to make tbh.
I disagree, my point was the budget narrative is discussed now but it wasn't then. Eck had the core of his team sold from underneath him. He spoke to Strachan who was at Southampton at the time and asked him if he had anyone is his reserves and that's how we ended up with Ostenstad.

Maybe you're right and he had some better players but he certainly didn't have the guts of £11M to spend either.

That season Eck finished 2nd, got to the CL group stage, a League Cup semi and a Scottish Cup QF.

Given how we're viewing things now you'd have to say the abuse he got was a bit OTT.
 
I disagree, my point was the budget narrative is discussed now but it wasn't then. Eck had the core of his team sold from underneath him. He spoke to Strachan who was at Southampton at the time and asked him if he had anyone is his reserves and that's how we ended up with Ostenstad.

Maybe you're right and he had some better players but he certainly didn't have the guts of £11M to spend either.

That season Eck finished 2nd, got to the CL group stage, a League Cup semi and a Scottish Cup QF.

Given how we're viewing things now you'd have to say the abuse he got was a bit OTT.

Did Eck really get that much abuse in 03/04?

I think it was more 05/06 that he got slaughtered.
 
Did Eck really get that much abuse in 03/04?

I think it was more 05/06 that he got slaughtered.
The abuse McLeish took on this forum was a disgrace. It's only recently he's started to get the credit he deserves. But you're right when you say 05/06 was worse. The whole atmosphere around the club was toxic at the point. I didn't think he was going to get out of Ibrox when Falkirk pulled us back to 2-2.
 
The abuse McLeish took on this forum was a disgrace. It's only recently he's started to get the credit he deserves. But you're right when you say 05/06 was worse. The whole atmosphere around the club was toxic at the point. I didn't think he was going to get out of Ibrox when Falkirk pulled us back to 2-2.

The abuse smith took during his second spell was ridiculous as well and we were winning things.
 
Working class football fan takes the piss out of working class football fans. Ouch.

You don't want him replaced? So you think he's the right man for the job?

Exactly - it's a strange and hypocritical form of equivalence that dialect has some basis on intelligence and one that you can't seem to explain yourself, particularly in a thread where everyone has conducted themselves in English. Just an odd semantic choice.

Anyway, as far as I can see, you were online, in this thread, when I clearly stated that I don't want Gerrard replaced. I think he's done enough to earn another crack at it - and if that makes him the "right man" for the job at this point, then so be it - but I think the fans are adapting their expectations in line with what Gerrard delivers, not the other way around, and that while there are signs of undeniable progress, I'd call into question how much of an improvement there has been to justify some of the acclaim that he's receiving in this thread.
 
The European angle is an interesting one. I don’t think it’s just we perform better because the expectation is lower, I think in general under Gerrard we have struggled when teams sit in behind the ball, when in Europe we don’t encounter that often.

That’s the biggest thing we need to work on for me. Too many times have I watched us against Aberdeen for example have little answer for them defending and hitting on the break, whilst we go side to side not opening them up.

The lack of goals and creativity across the midfield and front three outside of Morelos desperately needs addressed if we’re to win anything.

Plus the manager also needs to be more adaptable in these bread and butter games when the opposition just don’t want to play. The games at Tynecastle last season being another case in point.

I think everyone wants him to be a success, but you can recognise progress which their has undoubtedly been, but at the same time recognise where he needs to show further improvement to stay as manager.

I think you’re spot on with your assessment, but therein lies the concern: can he adapt?

When the wheels began to come off domestically there was no great rethink, no visible change in approach and instead it felt worryingly similar to Warburton’s infamous do plan A better mantra as we continued to deploy more or less the same system week after week with more poor results and performances.

Building a more flexible side to counteract the anti football approach of the majority of our domestic opponents is key, but I felt there was a question mark as to whether success by any means necessary actually fit in with Gerrard’s managerial neophyte purism.

If he’s unable to accommodate that into his approach, he’s probably not going to cut it.
 
I think you’re spot on with your assessment, but therein lies the concern: can he adapt?

When the wheels began to come off domestically there was no great rethink, no visible change in approach and instead it felt worryingly similar to Warburton’s infamous do plan A better mantra as we continued to deploy more or less the same system week after week with more poor results and performances.

Building a more flexible side to counteract the anti football approach of the majority of our domestic opponents is key, but I felt there was a question mark as to whether success by any means necessary actually fit in with Gerrard’s managerial neophyte purism.

If he’s unable to accommodate that into his approach, he’s probably not going to cut it.

So not only has he got to get more points than before (which he has done) - but he has to get them at a consistent rate - with no slumps during the season ?

If you improve your points tally with a slump - suggests you were doing better at some point during the season than before - naturally ignored.
 
I disagree, my point was the budget narrative is discussed now but it wasn't then. Eck had the core of his team sold from underneath him. He spoke to Strachan who was at Southampton at the time and asked him if he had anyone is his reserves and that's how we ended up with Ostenstad.

Maybe you're right and he had some better players but he certainly didn't have the guts of £11M to spend either.

That season Eck finished 2nd, got to the CL group stage, a League Cup semi and a Scottish Cup QF.

Given how we're viewing things now you'd have to say the abuse he got was a bit OTT.

It's hard to articulate but there are intangibles beyond player quality (although that is still a big difference) that separate the two scenarios for me. McLeish had winners around him and the club still had a bit of swagger about it, regardless of dross like Ostenstaad. We were a Champions League team.

Gerrard, on the other hand, inherited ground zero - a team that had been mentally destroyed by constant Old Firm humiliations and a support that were on the verge of giving up. I thought 03/04 would never be beaten in terms of bleakness, but the position we were in after Murty had departed made it look like a dream by comparison (I'm of course ignoring the Banter Years fiasco here). There is no comparison.
 
Sure he needs to win something soon, we all need that almost as much as our next breath.

We have improved, we will get better still and in Stevie I see real class and potential for the future.

Hopefully lessons are learned from the collapse post Dubai, where scumtic kicked on and cheated their way to the LC and three quarters of a league title we faltered off and on the pitch.

I dread to think what the future looks like without Steven Gerrard so for me, that hunger to win, the potential and his draw for players and business alike is good enough reasons for me to cut him slack. We are up against a Celtic team that thanks to Lawwell and refs has had unfettered access to 9 years of European cash, selling big for duds like Tierney.

Not quite sure how we can compete with them on a level playing field until we start to win constantly and starve those bastards of money and power.

I’m sure it will come good.
 
What are you talking about? You honestly think a Rangers manager if he had failed to win the league with three full seasons in charge leading to them doing ten in a row would survive?

Anyone who doesn’t think them going for ten doesn’t heap more pressure on the whole club next year is delusional. I’m sure the manager is more than aware of what is needed next season, but the jury is out on whether he can deliver.

I don’t think the cups would save him, the majority of the support only care next year about winning the league, anything else is the cherry on top. To put it another way I think they would settle for us winning both cups next year if they were guaranteed the league.

In a normal football environment that wouldn’t happen, but Scottish football is far from normal and next season will only see that hysteria heighten.
That's a lot of words to ignore the question.
What in sweet fucks name do the 7 titles won before Gerrard came have to do with him?

It's one of the daftest caveats I've ever seen or heard in my life.
..........Especially because 7 things happened before he arrived.

It's identical to saying, the guy that robbed 100 quid from my local corner shop deserves the death penalty, especially when the last person who robbed it before him pulled out a machine gun and murdered 7 people.
 
So not only has he got to get more points than before (which he has done) - but he has to get them at a consistent rate - with no slumps during the season ?

If you improve your points tally with a slump - suggests you were doing better at some point during the season than before - naturally ignored.

Had our final points tally been steady accumulated throughout the season we could maybe applaud modest progress. Had we started poorly then really kicked into gear after the new year, we’d probably feel a lot more optimistic than we do.

Instead we had an excellent start, but then imploded domestically in a way none of us foresaw in the immediate aftermath of the events of December the 29th.

The severity of that collapse was significantly worse than the previous season’s and he appeared worryingly clueless how to arrest it.

That’s the really alarming bit that’s still lingering in the mind and leaves many of us feeling apprehensive about the season ahead.

A poor start and I think it’s going to be an uphill struggle.
 
The main point people miss when comparing Gerrard to previous (pre 2012) eras is the foundations he had to build on when he took the job compared to others.

McLeish for instance, had to cost cut of course but he inherited a squad who had played the best football of any Rangers team in the last 30 years, who had chucked it under the previous manager. He just had to come in and man manage, to start getting a tune out of the players already there.

When he started having to lose players, the foundations are still in place so you only need to find a few decent players to supplement the quality and mentality you already have in the squad.

People will say Gerrard has spent 15m ish in two seasons which is fair enough but it's the foundations he was building on that are the key. He's spent 15m trying to enhance a squad that just drew 5-5 with Hibs in the type of game you'd expect to watch down your local amateur football pitch, rather than a professional club trying to win trophies and compete in Europe.

Lennon has came in and already had his foundations in place with double the wage bill. All he's had to do is man manage, and bring the odd player in here and there and not even really have to worry about whether they work out or not as he already has a quality side who are used to winning every single week.

Our situation is a lot more complicated than people are willing to admit.
 
Had our final points tally been steady accumulated throughout the season we could maybe applaud modest progress. Had we started poorly then really kicked into gear after the new year, we’d probably feel a lot more optimistic than we do.

Instead we had an excellent start, but then imploded domestically in a way none of us foresaw in the immediate aftermath of the events of December the 29th.

The severity of that collapse was significantly worse than the previous season’s and he appeared worryingly clueless how to arrest it.

That’s the really alarming bit that’s still lingering in the mind and leaves many of us feeling apprehensive about the season ahead.

A poor start and I think it’s going to be an uphill struggle.

Sounds like the SPFL - you have extrapolated cherry picked stats to complete the league to fit your opinion.
 
Had our final points tally been steady accumulated throughout the season we could maybe applaud modest progress. Had we started poorly then really kicked into gear after the new year, we’d probably feel a lot more optimistic than we do.

Instead we had an excellent start, but then imploded domestically in a way none of us foresaw in the immediate aftermath of the events of December the 29th.

The severity of that collapse was significantly worse than the previous season’s and he appeared worryingly clueless how to arrest it.

That’s the really alarming bit that’s still lingering in the mind and leaves many of us feeling apprehensive about the season ahead.

A poor start and I think it’s going to be an uphill struggle.

I think this is an excellent summation.

In season 18/19 I think we generally spluttered our way to second place. We first managed to win three games in a row in November (!), reacted by going top of the league against Hearts by dropping points in four of our next six games and essentially handed Celtic the title with our loss to Killie. It's no surprise that we hit our best run of form when they were champions but in name - six games unbeaten at the end of the season. There's that pressure thing coming into question again.

This year our run of form to New Year was obviously brilliant but when we lost to Hearts we simply didn't know what to do to stop it. In addition to the dropped points it's revealing that we subsequently failed to beat any team by more than one goal and scrapped by teams like Livvy and Ross County.

Let's be clear: that moment will come again this season. We will be top of the league, or competing, and we will inevitably at some point drop points. How this team react to that, mentally and physically, will be the difference this season. Smith was the master at this: when we last won the league, we didn't drop consecutive points at any point throughout the season. Gerrard's man-management in the event of losses in the past has been, at best, clumsy: he's thrown numerous players under the bus, hitting the nuclear button several times with no reaction. A careful, more considered approach to dropped points in season 20/21 will be absolutely crucial, and I hope the club are doing something to help him with that.
 
I don't think its a coincidence that we have performed better in Europe than in the hammer throwing SPFL. The thuggery allowed against our players by Scottish refs seriously hampers our game. Its easy to say, well we should respond in the same physical manner, but we know how that pans out.
 
I don't think its a coincidence that we have performed better in Europe than in the hammer throwing SPFL. The thuggery allowed against our players by Scottish refs seriously hampers our game. Its easy to say, well we should respond in the same physical manner, but we know how that pans out.

So then surely you adapt your line up and tactics to try and counter this physicality.

The SPFL being fast and physical really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone with a brain and at least one working eye.
 
That's a lot of words to ignore the question.
What in sweet fucks name do the 7 titles won before Gerrard came have to do with him?

It's one of the daftest caveats I've ever seen or heard in my life.
..........Especially because 7 things happened before he arrived.

It's identical to saying, the guy that robbed 100 quid from my local corner shop deserves the death penalty, especially when the last person who robbed it before him pulled out a machine gun and murdered 7 people.

Believe me I don’t need to try and avoid your question.

Try and engage your brain, and if you can’t see what the implications for a manager who would have been in charge for three seasons and not won the league ultimately ending in ten in a row for them, versus your made up scenario of a manager coming in to pick up the pieces with a few months left and losing the league and ten in a row then I’m not even interested in engaging with you.

If you want to debate like an adult that’s fine, but throwing in stupid little scenarios like you have is waste of both our time.

For what it’s worth I of course hope he succeeds. Though anyone who doesn’t think he won’t be under serious pressure if they win the league again next year is on another planet, and clearly weren’t at Ibrox that night against Hamilton or the cup game at Tynecastle.
 
So then surely you adapt your line up and tactics to try and counter this physicality.

The SPFL being fast and physical really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone with a brain and at least one working eye.

If we get physical with opposing SPFL sides, then the yellow and red cards start being flashed to our players. The appalling treatment of both Jack & Alfie is testament to that reality.
 
So in summary - apart from more points in the league, reaching a final (and being cheated) , and progressing further orders of magnitude beyond our dreams in Europe - the Scottish cup defeat to Hearts negates all of that.
Our league season and season as whole domestically was over by the end of February for the 2nd year running under Gerrard. We were playing meaningless games until the end of the season if it had played out.Just like every season since we came back into top league.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
 
Our league season and season as whole domestically was over by the end of February for the 2nd year running under Gerrard. We were playing meaningless games until the end of the season if it had played out.Just like every season since we came back into top league.
The more things change the more they stay the same.

So by your logic Sheffield Utd haven't been that great this season ?
 
It is going to be tough next season. The Bheasts will go all out for their tainted ten.
Our guys are going to have to show a strong mentality. It will sort out the men from the boys.
Having said that, if we really do put them under pressure they might implode.
 
in the 16/17 season he went like 10 games without winning

Liverpool's team which won the CL and will win the EPL this season:

Allison
Trent
VVD
Gomez/Lovren
Robertson

Fabinho
Hendersen
Wjinaldum
Mane
Firmino
Salah


All of the highlighted players were at Liverpool 3 seasons ago when they finished in 4th place, 25 points behind Man City. FF would have wanted them all binned for not having a winning mentality at the end of that season.

Liverpool showed patience, allowed their players to gain experience and continued to improve their squad each window and now they are the dominant team in England and the best team in Europe.

2 or 3 quality players could lift us to the next level.
 
So by your logic Sheffield Utd haven't been that great this season ?

:D :Day caramba!

IMO if we are trophyless after next season then the fans patience will waver.

Clearly Gerrard or the board can't say that trophies are secondary to Europa group stage qualification for the money and incremental point tally in the SPL for 2nd place. If they did, there'd be a huge backlash! Yet, it appears that is enough for some people in consolation.

I do reckon he by and large survives as his name is Steven Gerrard which is quite telling on how some fans are blinded to his failings (i.e. no trophies won). Had this been an unfashionable name, he'd be hounded.
 
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