Rangers propose "B" teams as part of reconstruction

supersonic said:
What rumours? Same made rumours as Armstrong
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Told recently by ITK that we wont let the status quo continue. Well seems we are more than likely looking at times a heeler. Obviously been in contact with those that laughed at us and now doing their bidding also. This was not the time. We should have been going nuclear with Hearts whos fate was sealed.
 
Stupidity on stilts and shows how out of touch the club is with other clubs - some of whom we should be looking to move out of the SPFL's camp.

I know some will jump in here with "we don't care about those clubs" - well, the reason we are in this state is because too many associated with Rangers "didn't care" about a whole range of things for far too long. So, think before opening your gobs.

The vast majority of smaller clubs are utterly opposed to B or Reserve teams coming into their competitions - it devalues them by proving they are second string and they believe the bigger teams will simply roll over the opposite because of the resources they have.
 
Harrogate Bluenose said:
It was strangely taken off the table after our dossier, officially. And after that not a peep from the club regards our dossier and status quo. Last year it was given a verdict that it would need taken to CAS. Only recently was it abandoned for good.
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The maximum fine we couldve got was £12k or something.



Sure someone else could confirm about the res 12 charges but am pretty sure it was dead in water a long time ago.



Can't see that being reason if we stop hounding Doncaster, Mackenzie etc.



My feeling is we see a chance to improve Scottish Football and more importantly the development of our younger players and are using this to our advantage.



If the current regime remains in charge of Scottish football and our board let it go without constantly challenging them, there will be a lot of unhappy fans - myself included.
 
jaws73 said:
Whether you agree with it or not it is innovative thinking by Rangers and (on the face of it) benefits all clubs.

At the very least it shows up how pathetic those running the SPFL have been (at least to others) - we all know they have been doing Celtic's bidding.

It may or may not be supported but I'd bet your bottom dollar those backing us will be more than the thirteen we currently have on or side. We'll have made that calculation even if this proposal fails (whether we agree with it or not it is well thought out and detailed enough to actually be voted upon).

I could see this going through - followed not so long afterwards with a change in the SPFL set-up proven to be irrelevant.
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Honestly would you like status quo with youth introduced and hearts in the premiership with a lot of friends that were made so, like in our advances through the leagues.

or

Would you want court action with hearts and a forensic audit of the dundee vote being aired publicly and the thinking behind doncaster, mckenzie and mclennan and who they answer too.
 
mdingwall said:
Stupidity on stilts and shows how out of touch the club is with other clubs - some of whom we should be looking to move out of the SPFL's camp.

I know some will jump in here with "we don't care about those clubs" - well, the reason we are in this state is because too many associated with Rangers "didn't care" about a whole range of things for far too long. So, think before opening your gobs.

The vast majority of smaller clubs are utterly opposed to B or Reserve teams coming into their competitions - it devalues them by proving they are second string and they believe the bigger teams will simply roll over the opposite because of the resources they have.
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why propose and cause more delays? Crazy. Absolutely crazy.
 
I think the telling part from the article is the following paragraph: "All Premiership clubs are aware, and will have had the full document presented to them by Rangers by Tuesday. Furthermore, the Scottish Football Association and SPFL have both been briefed, and other lower-league outfits have been sounded out".

I honestly do not think, (given the ridicule we experienced recently), that we would have gone public with this had we not done our homework first. I believe that, as the article states, Lower League Clubs have been "sounded out" and there has been positive feedback. These clubs will need all the financial help they can get to survive, so personally I think they will bite our hands off. The only ones that may object are Clyde, Cove Rangers, Stranraer, Peterhead and Forfar. I am of the opinion that it will pass, as apart from the aforementioned clubs, everyone else has nothing to lose and Hearts, Partick and Inverness will also gain.
 
IrvineLoyal said:
The maximum fine we couldve got was £12k or something.



Sure someone else could confirm about the res 12 charges but am pretty sure it was dead in water a long time ago.



Can't see that being reason if we stop hounding Doncaster, Mackenzie etc.



My feeling is we see a chance to improve Scottish Football and more importantly the development of our younger players and are using this to our advantage.



If the current regime remains in charge of Scottish football and our board let it go without constantly challenging them, there will be a lot of unhappy fans - myself included.
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Your last paragraph, Dont give them more time, and a proposal. Let fate be. Hearts without options is an advantage to us not a hindrance.
 
This is a great move by the club trying to push this through and the main driver behind it won't be to save Hearts or Partick Thistle but to give our young players a platform to develop and thrive.

£125,000 a season is nothing if it contributes to even one of our youth players really kicking on and becoming a £15M player.

We've got a really talented number of players who could play 2 or 3 seasons in the B-Team before making the step up to the first team. Maybe even some sooner. That will be more than 100 games if they play every week.

It's also a great move having an alternative of partner clubs. We could hook up with Dumbarton and allow them to use our training facilities which would allow us to work closely and monitor player development.

Really interesting to see how this plays out.
 
Harrogate Bluenose said:
Honestly would you like status quo with youth introduced and hearts in the premiership with a lot of friends that were made so, like in our advances through the leagues.

or

Would you want court action with hearts and a forensic audit of the dundee vote being aired publicly and the thinking behind doncaster, mckenzie and mclennan and who they answer too.
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Didn't say I agree with it. My preference would be that Hearts (along with other relegated clubs) take the necessary legal action - they are in a much better position to do so than us.

However, we have shown in the space of no time we can at least come up with solutions that the SPFL are incapable of wrt reconstruction.

Anyway, let's calm down. This is just one of 42 solutions asked for by 5.00pm tonight by the SPFL.
It might have no traction at all among the 42 clubs (although it will certainly court publicity).

And, just to add, if Hearts are thinking of legal action I doubt they'd withdraw that thought relying on a Rangers proposal getting past the SPFL voting system. They still need to shit or get off the pot. If the reports of the number of rejections to the Hearts proposals today are correct then they haven't anywhere else to go.
 
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AllyGer said:
I know that we maybe see this as an opportunity to get colt teams in the pyramid, but I'm not sure why we're trying to help the SPFL dig themselves out of a hole here. Especially when we know that the idea of colt teams proved very unpopular in the lower leagues
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Try to see the bigger picture. Maybe our Board is looking at this as an opportunity for our club. It probably will get the SPFL off a hook but there is also a fairly big potential benefit for our club as well.
 
mdingwall said:
Stupidity on stilts and shows how out of touch the club is with other clubs - some of whom we should be looking to move out of the SPFL's camp.

I know some will jump in here with "we don't care about those clubs" - well, the reason we are in this state is because too many associated with Rangers "didn't care" about a whole range of things for far too long. So, think before opening your gobs.

The vast majority of smaller clubs are utterly opposed to B or Reserve teams coming into their competitions - it devalues them by proving they are second string and they believe the bigger teams will simply roll over the opposite because of the resources they have.
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Was there significant objection to our entry into the Challenge Cup (along with Irish and Welsh clubs)?
 
Jimmy Jazz said:
Waiting to see what happens with Hearts' relegation first perhaps? It's a long process.
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They were ejected from the league by consent of fellow SPFL clubs not relegated. I believe relegation only applys when games are played to completion. So no one won the league or finished bottom it was voted on a bit like the old pools panel when games were called off.
 
jaws73 said:
Didn't say I agree with it. My preference would be that Hearts (along with other relegated clubs) take the necessary legal action - they are in a much better position to do so than us.

However, we have shown in the space of no time we can at least come up with solutions that the SPFL are incapable of wrt reconstruction.

Anyway, let's calm down. This is just one of 42 solutions asked for by 5.00pm tonight by the SPFL.
It might have no traction at all among the 42 clubs (although it will certainly court publicity).
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we have added finances as a bribe. we are serious in this proposal.

imagine if we were the 3rd force in scotland and watched the big 2 offer this.

This makes enemies not friends. FFS We were calling hearts out for a 3rd party bribe, we have just went direct whilst doing celtics bidding. Hard to believe it honestly is.
 
Bluegenebop said:
There is still relegation for some teams.
Further stumbling blocks are that, while Stranraer would technically avoid the relegation from League One meted out after the early curtailment of last season, they would still end up in the bottom tier.
Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar Athletic would be in a similar situation, while Cove would stay in the bottom tier despite winning League Two last term
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Its a bloody pyramid!!!

Sorry, but this just gets to me. There are leagues below from which there is promotion and relegation. They would go from 3 promotions away from the Premier league to just 2 promotions away... How? Cause its a promotion!!!

And unlike before, outsiders might actually want to watch their games on telly for once due to the presence of the colts!

I hate that these narrow-minded minnows go out of their way to frame things negatively and cling to a system that barely allows them to survive and actively prevents them from thriving!
 
bluestory said:
Ann Budge gets torn to shreds on here for being bought via reconstruction.

Looks like we've been bought too.
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I'd say we are being opportunistic. We have a great bunch of young players but they need real competition. That's the only way to bring them on. It's too big a gap to our first team. This actually works out a really cheap way to get them the exposure they need and want. One player develops as a result and we pay for it all.
Rangers are showing leadership , that is what we should be about. We are not leaving it up to others, we are showing the way. It's the Bill Struth way and I am all for it.
We all know the status quo is not good enough. The Club are trying to help Scotish football and our own Development teams to progress.
 
Harrogate Bluenose said:
Far from it.

We ask for the corrupt cabal to be removed, Then we propose a vote to safe their arses.

No m8 Im not stupid. We are now doing Celtics bidding too.

Im not the only one that cannot understand them.

Treating us like mugs.
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The league is going ahead next season or do you want us to put litigation in place to stop it?

I assume not so will ask a second question, should any reconstruction benefit us in some way by passing a previously rejected proposal to get our second team in the professional set up and develop our players quicker?
 
Cutty/Young said:
How would it improve and develop our young players ? Didn't someone from our youth team state the reason we pulled out of the league for a season and play the top European teams development teams was because our players weren't getting tested to a high enough level.

The colts played some of the best youth teams in Europe and had some fantasic results against them, I'd much rather they continued to do the same.
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They were playing friendlies and playing for nothing. Fun? Yes. Educational? Yes? Preparing the players for the expectations at Ibrox. No-where near!

The players grew more in the challenge cup run. Playing against men and hammer throwers only slightly lower in quality than the SPL teams we struggle to break down.

Do not confuse this with the reserve league that they quit, playing the best the hibee academy has to offer I.e. Players who 90% of whom will never even earn a professional contract!
 
This is a very innovative proposal that goes well beyond the bog standard thinking of SPFL administrators. It covers all bases. It takes the heat out of the tainted relegations currently in place as well as allowing Kelty and Brora to take their places in the higher league. It puts cash straight into the coffers of cash strapped clubs with guarantees of further income from attendances in games against Rangers and Celtic ‘B‘ teams plus tv or internet exposure. What’s to lose?
 
TommyV said:
The league is going ahead next season or do you want us to put litigation in place to stop it?

I assume not so will ask a second question, should any reconstruction benefit us in some way by passing a previously rejected proposal to get our second team in the professional set up and develop our players quicker?
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I want an interdict. Yes it stop us playing but whats the point in playing football when the result is made beforehand?
 
It’s a decent idea - at the wrong time. However, another opportunity, with the lower leagues so desperate for cash, might not come along.
 
I cant understand how two faced some are.

Hearts want voted into the premiership and a 3rd part offers money to help clubs struggling - Follow Follow - bribe, scandalous

Rangers want colts voted into the lower tiers and offer money directly to help struggling clubs - Follow Follow - vision, tremendous
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Again, you're reaching conclusions based on little. Maybe - just maybe - the two things are separate.

The behaviour and decision-making of the executive is not saved by this proposal.

How do you go "nuclear"?
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the first step to going nuclear is allowing hearts to face their fate. The fate the SPFL gave them. Not by offering the SPFL a lifeline and doing celtics bidding,
 
Harrogate Bluenose said:
I cant understand how two faced some are.

Hearts want voted into the premiership and a 3rd part offers money to help clubs struggling - Follow Follow - bribe, scandalous

Rangers want colts voted into the lower tiers and offer money directly to help struggling clubs - Follow Follow - vision, tremendous
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Ranger wanting the colts in the lower leagues benefits Rangers. Hearts bribing other clubs doesn't.
 
cold said:
Ranger wanting the colts in the lower leagues benefits Rangers. Hearts bribing other clubs doesn't.
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its two faced. A bribe is a bribe. Integrity is what we want yet we are happy to only want when it suits>
 
mdingwall said:
Stupidity on stilts and shows how out of touch the club is with other clubs - some of whom we should be looking to move out of the SPFL's camp.

I know some will jump in here with "we don't care about those clubs" - well, the reason we are in this state is because too many associated with Rangers "didn't care" about a whole range of things for far too long. So, think before opening your gobs.

The vast majority of smaller clubs are utterly opposed to B or Reserve teams coming into their competitions - it devalues them by proving they are second string and they believe the bigger teams will simply roll over the opposite because of the resources they have.
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The smaller clubs will vote for anything that gives them maximum money. We can spend time getting to know what their worries are, but at the end of the day it wont sway any vote in our favour. They voted 2 months ago for their cash.

It's for that reason I believe we should push our selfish agenda as much as we like and that's colt teams who we believe will benefit from first team game exposure.
 
mdingwall said:
They've explained their opposition to it at length on every previous time it has been proposed.
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100% although there is a financial bribe in there now, no matter what its delaying what we as a club strive for. Integrity, and fairness from corporate governance.
 
SecondBestIsNothing said:
So instead of playing St. Mirren 4 times in a season, playing them and ICT twice would be more entertaining? No meaning to be arrogant but in all honesty, the tims, the sheep are the Edinburgh sides are the only teams that provide matches where there is some form of entertainment, the rest are interchangeable filler.
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For me I’d prefer to play each team only twice in league, it’s what I remember before the tail started to wag the dog. Personal choice but I’m not confident I’m going to win.
 
Maybe we get teams on side with the plan to save any club any financial hardship.

Once its voted through we then push for the inquiry into the whole fiasco including how the board sat on their asses and the clubs had to put together a plan to save Scottish football....
 
Due to the corruption being able to continue in Scottish football, and biased officials not being challenged, will we now have cup finals with C**tic v C**tic colts.
 
Harrogate Bluenose said:
I cant understand how two faced some are.

Hearts want voted into the premiership and a 3rd part offers money to help clubs struggling - Follow Follow - bribe, scandalous

Rangers want colts voted into the lower tiers and offer money directly to help struggling clubs - Follow Follow - vision, tremendous
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Do you not think this could be a way of getting teams on board and pulling the plug on Doncaster and the rest of them??
 
Harrogate Bluenose said:
I cant understand how two faced some are.

Hearts want voted into the premiership and a 3rd part offers money to help clubs struggling - Follow Follow - bribe, scandalous

Rangers want colts voted into the lower tiers and offer money directly to help struggling clubs - Follow Follow - vision, tremendous
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Posters can one week love Ann Budge then the next she hate her. Bla bla. They abuse clubs for acting in self interest, then praise people when they align themselves with Rangers self interest.
 
cold said:
Ranger wanting the colts in the lower leagues benefits Rangers. Hearts bribing other clubs doesn't.
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Rangers getting colts in the Scottish league basically equals being bought to make Celtic champions.

That's how we all described hearts reconstructuon efforts.

Or is it because we benefit a little now everything is OK?
 
Harrogate Bluenose said:
I cant understand how two faced some are.

Hearts want voted into the premiership and a 3rd part offers money to help clubs struggling - Follow Follow - bribe, scandalous

Rangers want colts voted into the lower tiers and offer money directly to help struggling clubs - Follow Follow - vision, tremendous
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You've said in the other thread that the aim is to get rid of the SPFL Executive (the cabal). I think that can be achieved with an innovative Rangers proposal being accepted by the SPFL clubs - granted it is a bit of a stretch that this particular solution will actually be voted through. To me it will just prove the utter irrelevance of the current costly set-up which exists to favour Celtic.

Much as I would like Celtic's title rescinded I think removal of the current governing body set-up is the objective more likely to succeed (first at least).

Let's just wait and see what unflolds HB - I do understand your frustrations.
 
Harrogate Bluenose said:
We needed to give Hearts no other option but join us in forcing the corrupt cabal out. We have certainly buckled big time. Money talks. Integrity? whats that?
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Yes. That makes sense. Vote against their plan to save themselves out of spite and then offer the hand of friendship.

You don't have a lot of friends do you.

I think adding to their (doomed) plan with something in it for us on the off chance it passes is prudent. It means we get a win if the 14 team top league passes (which will or won't happen regardless of our single vote) then so be it.

If it means we have shown to be positive and supportive in these talk, all the better. To be seen as A voice for development and positivity. An ally to work with in the next phase of hearts, Partick and stranraars fight.

Reconstruction and 14 team league or not. We will be better off either way. Win win and sensible positioning by the board.

I just wish we were all clear headed enough to see it.
 
Or we get a Rangers colts into the Scottish pyramid and the real Rangers into the English pyramid...
 
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