Celtic finances

Absolutely nowhere mate. Made up by dreamers earlier in this thread and now taking a life of its own. They'll be nowhere near it.

Unfortunately Desmond has a habit of putting his hand in his pocket when it goes Pete tong over there let's hope this isn't the case this time.
I agree that they are unlikely to go into Admin, but they certainly aren't cash rich.

What evidence do you have of him putting his hand in his pocket?

Last investment he made, as far as I can see, was in 2005, when he put £10m into their share issue.

Other than that, it's the odd unsubstantiated rumours that he gave the two Keane's and Rodgers brown envelopes to encourage them to sign.
 
This type of billionaire
Is that similar to this once richest Irish guy?

Sean Quinn acquired a great deal of success through his investments in industries such as plastic, glass, and hotels. He also held a 25% stake in Anglo Irish Bank, which had to be bailed out by taxpayers during the 2008 financial crisis. The bank was taken over by the government, and thus began a series of legal troubles between the Quinn family and the bank.

Once considered to be the richest man in Ireland, Quinn lost a majority of his $2.8 billion fortune. At one point, the Irish Bank Resolution Corp., which took over Anglo Irish Bank, said Quinn owed the bank more than €2 billion.

Soon after, he was charged with contempt of court for attempting to hide his property assets from the bank in an effort to avoid paying back his debts. Financial Times reported that in November 2011, Quinn claimed his assets to be less than £50,000 and said he had applied for bankruptcy.

Kevin Lunney, a close associate of Sean Quinn and a director of Quinn Industrial Holdings, was abducted and beaten in September 2019, showing that there remains a lot of ill will towards Quinn and his company.



All these guys need is the wind to blow in the wrong direction for more than they had planned for.
 
As much as I enjoy the fact we are going in the right direction financialy, let's not get carried away.

The reason they have had to down size, which has ultimately meant they have not been able to sustain their position was because they thought they would have champions league money every second season.

Tierney sale covered it one year, but they are now at the bottom of the barrel.

For us, if we make champions league, we have to remember, there are a lot people who will want money back. So we need to stick with growing steady, nothing crazy.
I would say they based their finances on making the CL every season, or at least 2 out of 3, not every 2nd season. If they didn't qualify, they knew that they would have to sell their biggest assets. Which they have been lucky enough to do numerous times.

Last year they got £25m for Tierney and won their EL Group, yet only made £100k profit.

This year they had no CL qualification and very little EL money, due to poor Group Stage results and no crowds, plus they haven't yet sold anyone.

Throw in money spent on Barkas, Ajeti & Turnbull, as well as loan fees and high wages for Duffy, Elyounoussi & Laxalt and their losses will be huge.
 
I would say they based their finances on making the CL every season, or at least 2 out of 3, not every 2nd season. If they didn't qualify, they knew that they would have to sell their biggest assets. Which they have been lucky enough to do numerous times.

Last year they got £25m for Tierney and won their EL Group, yet only made £100k profit.

This year they had no CL qualification and very little EL money, due to poor Group Stage results and no crowds, plus they haven't yet sold anyone.

Throw in money spent on Barkas, Ajeti & Turnbull, as well as loan fees and high wages for Duffy, Elyounoussi & Laxalt and their losses will be huge.
You have to remember, like us, they will have people who will fund them.

We should learn from their mistakes and build steady
 
What type of billionaire is he? is he these types?
He may be a billionaire but he’s only celtcs biggest shareholder, not outright owner. He’s deliberately kept his shareholding below the threshold of having to offer to buy all shares just like King tried to do. I believe he got dispensation from the stock exchange to prevent him having to make this offer after a previous share issue. I don’t think he pumps cash into them because it would be like King pumping cash into us while nobody else does. He may pay a couple of million towards a players wage but he won’t pump million on top of million in imo.
 
Struggling Celtic have vanished from the top 100 clubs in a table of the best sides in world football.
FiveThirtyEight's global club soccer rankings keeps tabs on 637 teams from across the globe, with Manchester City sitting top of the tree for now based on a series of stats and analytics including expected goals for and against, strength of league and performance in the transfer market..
The table is updated after every game and after drawing 2-2 with Livingston on Wednesday night Neil Lennon's side have plummeted a whopping 20 places to 109th spot since last week, being overtaken by the likes of Feyenoord, Bologna and Bordeaux.
Any word on where we sit on that table?
 
This is overlooked IMO.

Their ground is a shite-hole with a very limited shelf life.

Remember being in the stand above the old jungle for the LCF v Hearts. ( Gazza & Ally had their wee spat then a stiff drink at haltime lifted Gazza's spirit! )

It couldn't have been opened long ( mid 90's ? ) and the water was pissing in through the roof then.

Tickety tock MF's.:))
Is there even evidence of this . Yes it looks like a shitehole but evidence it will need major work even if it remains a eyesore
 
I would say they based their finances on making the CL every season, or at least 2 out of 3, not every 2nd season. If they didn't qualify, they knew that they would have to sell their biggest assets. Which they have been lucky enough to do numerous times.

Last year they got £25m for Tierney and won their EL Group, yet only made £100k profit.

This year they had no CL qualification and very little EL money, due to poor Group Stage results and no crowds, plus they haven't yet sold anyone.

Throw in money spent on Barkas, Ajeti & Turnbull, as well as loan fees and high wages for Duffy, Elyounoussi & Laxalt and their losses will be huge.
The reason they keep banging on about being "the most affected club by covid" is because (without player sales) they are staring down the barrel at a £40-45m loss.

You might think that's fanciful, but look at what you mentioned.

Their operating loss (if you exclude player sales) was £24.9m last season. Factor in wage increases, Bonuses paid out for competition "wins", loan fee's, £10-12m of spending on transfers, significantly lower season ticket uptake, over-reliance upon footfall for attendance at games than season ticket sales, lack of business interruption insurance and then their dismal performance in European competition then their revenue falls off a cliff and their expenditure explodes.

Then there's the other factor; The accounts show the cash is gone and the credit lines are being opened with commercial banks. They're debt loading, at an awful time to do so, which means n the very near future they will have to either get a mass injection of money (not happening due to being uncompetitive) or selling players.

But how do you sell that set of players for maximum value? They've been on a highly publicised piss-up which isn't exactly going to increase their value, the ones they definitely want to sell are isolating for 10 days because of CoVid, they're in a slump, several want out and their contracts are running into the 18 month territory which depreciates the value significantly.

They have run themselves into a real, real bind here and it is delightful.
 
Everyone concentrates too much on Champions League money and forgets that since 2012 we have missed out on the massive boom in transfer fees.

£20 million transfers used to be the stuff of fantasy up here but now it's achievable we need a piece of that action.

Good recruitment then selling at the right time could be far more lucrative and reliable income than qualifying for CL.

Goes without saying hopefully we can do both.
 
I think they will lose around £25 million this year.

Last year their revenue was £70M whilst there operating expenses were £80M.

This year their revenue may drop to around £50M due to a number of factors including no European crowds, poorer European performance, no match day income and lower prize money with their early LC exit and likely 2nd position in the league.

However, I also suspect that their operating expenses will fall slightly to around £75M due mainly to reduced matchday costs.

They will need to sell players and reduce their massive wage bill to find a sustainable operating model.
 
Spot-on. Celtc nickel & dimed last summer (again). They can't reverse that till next summer under a new manager; keeping TLB on a 1yr rolling is simply bleeding them dry.

They spent a good bit more than us mate. The difference being, they recruited as badly as it would seem possible, while we spent our cash much more wisely.

Would say they screwed it up as opposed to nickel & dimed it.
 
They have a lot of wealthy fans so finances may be less of a problem. If we get to CL group stages, and spend wisely, we can have 2 or 3 years of success and growth.
Let's not forget, however, we were told it would take £70m/£100m to catch up the bheasts. A CEO at Sharkheid who allows the correct people to have control of their own departments could change things significantly. Lets not become Celtic and get too arrogant.
That's all well and good if these wealthy fans are actually willing to put money in to Celtic.
 
The shitpit they call home, is due it's mid-life up grade within the next year or so, the number of banners on display round the outside of the tin shed is there for more than display, it is there to cover up a multitude of faults, as they dont seem to have spent to much on the upkeep on the place over the piece, so after all that we have spoken about we will add this to the list of to do things they must spend money on.
I'm sure it was originally stated that the Piggery was the same cost to maintain over a ten-year period as it was to build. Maybe wishful thinking. . .
 
This tilt at the CL is absolutely massive.

I mean, it isn't a disaster by any means if we don't, we're back and there isn't anything they can do about that. But if we qualified for the CL groups it could put us on a path of sustained dominance for years to come. Without it we're still the better team, no question, but with it we could put ourselves out of sight for a good few years.
The CL is the holy grail. I don't think we've ever had a manager who I'd have more confidence in qualifying than Gerrard.
 
Lawwell is no mug and it appears he is getting out at the end of this season.
He may well have seen the financial writing on the wall and has decided to jump ship.
They need a new CEO, new manager, team rebuild and have off the field legal/financial issues.
We need to capitalise on this as much as possible.
 
Lawwell is no mug and it appears he is getting out at the end of this season.
He may well have seen the financial writing on the wall and has decided to jump ship.
They need a new CEO, new manager, team rebuild and have off the field legal/financial issues.
We need to capitalise on this as much as possible.

While I agree with the opening gambit I think his arrogance on achieving 10 and bowing out on a high has caught him out here....which is nice
 
The man the myth the legend

Desmott Dermond
What will happen if Fritz decides he’s had enough and walks away and asks for his interest free loans back . He likes to be out the lime light but with the house of cards collapsing he will be under the spotlight even more going forward . Especially with the media now slowly turning on them .
 
Got to remember that most billionaires are asset rich not cash there money is in property, oil,gas etc and to bail them out he might have to borrow money on the strength of his assets thats if he's willing to do this,

Also on lawell seemingly he is involved in large property development in Edinburgh which is in trouble and was planning to leave concentrate on this as all his cash is tied up in it.
WATP
 
I think they will lose around £25 million this year.

Last year their revenue was £70M whilst there operating expenses were £80M.

This year their revenue may drop to around £50M due to a number of factors including no European crowds, poorer European performance, no match day income and lower prize money with their early LC exit and likely 2nd position in the league.

However, I also suspect that their operating expenses will fall slightly to around £75M due mainly to reduced matchday costs.

They will need to sell players and reduce their massive wage bill to find a sustainable operating model.
They can talk the players values up all they want but the valuation that matters is that of the potential purchasers, some of the prices being touted by the press are pretty unrealistic.
Edouard/Ajer/McGregor and Christie are imo the only 4 who they could get half decent money for and i dont think the whole lot combined would reach Teirneys money.
If they all did go they would need replacing as well which would cost money.
 
I think they will lose around £25 million this year.

Last year their revenue was £70M whilst there operating expenses were £80M.

This year their revenue may drop to around £50M due to a number of factors including no European crowds, poorer European performance, no match day income and lower prize money with their early LC exit and likely 2nd position in the league.

However, I also suspect that their operating expenses will fall slightly to around £75M due mainly to reduced matchday costs.

They will need to sell players and reduce their massive wage bill to find a sustainable operating model.
They will be at more of a loss than that they would have lost £25 million last season had they not sold Tierney it'll be closer to £40 million unless they sell big this window they have increased their wage bill this season and spent £15 million pounds with all but one of their summer signings appearing to be duds
 
Not entirely true about not spending anything, they spent £5m on Barkas, £5m on Adjeti, A £4m loan fee on Duffy and another hefty loan and wage fee on Laxalt, all of whom have greatly improved the team. :p

Turnbull too T.

They spent more than us this season, and since Gerrard has come in.
 
The mentally challengeds had 10 in the bag.

They thought they had enough quality in the squad then by adding another circa £15-20 Million spent to get the 10.

There wage Bill I’m sure has risen to Estimate £70-80 Million , they have players now with re-sale value down by probably 50% inc the climate were in.

The mentally challengeds are heading for a financial meltdown and they deserve all they get coming to them.
 
They will be at more of a loss than that they would have lost £25 million last season had they not sold Tierney it'll be closer to £40 million unless they sell big this window they have increased their wage bill this season and spent £15 million pounds with all but one of their summer signings appearing to be duds

Transfer fees are spread over their contracts KGR.

I think the COVID impact will be much more severe than last season, so you may still be close.
 
The mentally challengeds had 10 in the bag.

They thought they had enough quality in the squad then by adding another circa £15-20 Million spent to get the 10.

There wage Bill I’m sure has risen to Estimate £70-80 Million , they have players now with re-sale value down by probably 50% inc the climate were in.

The mentally challengeds are heading for a financial meltdown and they deserve all they get coming to them.

B-D
 
The mentally challengeds had 10 in the bag.

They thought they had enough quality in the squad then by adding another circa £15-20 Million spent to get the 10.

There wage Bill I’m sure has risen to Estimate £70-80 Million , they have players now with re-sale value down by probably 50% inc the climate were in.

The mentally challengeds are heading for a financial meltdown and they deserve all they get coming to them.
I wonder if the Covid Trio will demand to be sold this summer or threaten to run down their contracts
 
So where have all the millions gone,wasn't so long ago they were on about 100 mil in the bank,sponsorship deals,high valued players, talk is cheap as so are the people running this despicable organisation from top to bottom.
They had 10 years to put Rangers to bed but never had the intelligence to.put it together.
Greedy,arrogant, bigoted, single minded filthy club who deserves everything that comes to them ,they forgot it is a game of football we played but they were to interested on running Rangers into the ground and10ir and it has bitten them on the arse big time.
They all forget what they done to Rangers and that we would not go away,they had a free hand, but ask yourself how many league titles would they have won if we had still been around ,guaranteed it wouldn't be near 8.3/4 they stole so to hell with them and i hope they never recover.
WATP
Operating costs.

Their wage bill is 60m a year.
 
Don’t forget they’ve got a shot at Champions League money next season too. A bit early to gloat too much about the house of cards until we qualify and they don’t. Both of us will be at the mercy of the draw.
They aren't getting through the 3rd qualifier and play off unseeded.

Ffs look at the state of them this season in one off qualifiers as seeds up against a team of farmers and brickies.
 
Good old Dernot rips them all the time with preference shares, roughly 6% return for ever on those shares.

Then they have the same shares issued to Bank of New York for loans that are on endless debt repayments :D
 
They aren't getting through the 3rd qualifier and play off unseeded.

Ffs look at the state of them this season in one off qualifiers as seeds up against a team of farmers and brickies.
New manager with new players, combined with the luck of the draw. it could easily happen.
 
He may be a billionaire but he’s only celtcs biggest shareholder, not outright owner. He’s deliberately kept his shareholding below the threshold of having to offer to buy all shares just like King tried to do. I believe he got dispensation from the stock exchange to prevent him having to make this offer after a previous share issue. I don’t think he pumps cash into them because it would be like King pumping cash into us while nobody else does. He may pay a couple of million towards a players wage but he won’t pump million on top of million in imo.
At the end of they day he is a businessman like Dave King.

Businessmen of that level have money for a reason and are pretty ruthless.

Both have emotional attachments to the 2 clubs hence their involvement, albeit for different reasons, they don't donate millions of pounds and just walk away from it.

In normal circumstances neither would be near either club as it doesn't make them money.
 
Everyone concentrates too much on Champions League money and forgets that since 2012 we have missed out on the massive boom in transfer fees.

£20 million transfers used to be the stuff of fantasy up here but now it's achievable we need a piece of that action.

Good recruitment then selling at the right time could be far more lucrative and reliable income than qualifying for CL.

Goes without saying hopefully we can do both.
If we get the CL in August and they dont and we sell 1 player for upwards of 15m were Into the territory of a 50m cash injection next season. Added to 45000 season tickets at what 17m/18m ? They are in revolt and even when a new manager comes in I don't think their ST uptake will be good next season.

That could be a swing of circa 65m pounds.
 
If we do get into the CL then I pray that the money is spent wisely. I’m sorry, but I can’t get excited about guys from Preston or Bournemouth and I can’t envision them making us a lot of money in the future.
 
The mentally challengeds had 10 in the bag.

They thought they had enough quality in the squad then by adding another circa £15-20 Million spent to get the 10.

There wage Bill I’m sure has risen to Estimate £70-80 Million , they have players now with re-sale value down by probably 50% inc the climate were in.

The mentally challengeds are heading for a financial meltdown and they deserve all they get coming to them.
10iar has crippled them financially. In another season they woukd have perhaps sold Edouard, they couldnt possibly sell him before a 10iar season. Now he has 12 months on his deal and 10iar isnt happening
 
Celtic have become Rangers under Murray. They either need a good European run preferably the champions league or need to sell players to balance the books.to be honest after the last year i don,t think even wealthy fans will be throwing money at football clubs.
Partly correct, but Murray was very good at getting hard cash in whilst retaining complete control.

over an 10 year period he got

£20m from Dave King

£40m from Joe Lewis (Enic)

£18m from JD Sports

£10m from McLager (£1m annual sponsorship)

An astonishing amount of cash for almost 25 years ago. In addition he developed and sold the Catering Company (Azure) leaving us tied to a deal for 20 years IIRC

Plus he developed the ticket company from Edmiston house with John MacLelland. I think it was sold for a large sum. We ended up with our ticket office in Portacabins. Can’t remember the name of it?

Then there was the sale and lease back of Albion Car Park.

We were all too happy winning the leagues, trebles and basically dominating the game to listen to all the warning signs. In fact anyone, like The RST or Hugh Adams, who tried to criticise Murray was ridiculed and ostracised.

we can only hope that’s what’s coming for the mob across the city. It certainly won’t be easy to get hard cash into their club in the next few years.
 
Based on what we know (and ignoring the speculation), they're in a bit of a mess.

Firstly, we know they don't have covid insurance. Therefore they'll be feeling the pain of not having 50-60k fans at their midden 22 or so times a year (domestically, including cups). BAd, but not terrible since many of these would have been ST holders so they have the ticket money but still lose out on the additionals such as food, etc. They will be feeling the pain of an awful European run, not qualifying for the CL and then only gaining 4 points in the EL means a relative pittance in prize money. Plus missing out on the full benefit of 55k fans for each home game (although they're not alone in this).

So their revenue will be down considerably, even on the previous season when it wasn't great.

Then look at costs. Their wage bill will likely be down slightly since they won't be paying CL qualification bonuses, League cup or league championship winning bonuses to the squad but will need to shell out bonuses for winning the delayed SC. On the flipside is that they recruited a number of players in the summer who will be on decent money each week. So even though bonus payments will be down, their overall wage costs may be roughly similar to before.

As mentioned above, they spent a lot of money in the summer which will be reflected in their next accounts. In 2019/20 they spent around £20m across 2 windows and received £25m for biscuit hips - a net spend of £5m. Since last summer they have spent another £12m and have yet to receive a penny for any player - a net spend of £12m with no immediate prospect of improving on that. They may sell players in the summer but they will have to replace them and in addition will lose regular first team starters in Elyanoussi, Laxalt and Duffy (hahaha!!) AND will obviously have to upgrade on those who remain as they aren't good enough to win the league. So they have a big, big rebuild on the horizon, plus their main assets (McGregor, Christie, Edouard, Ajer) are all coming into the final year of their contracts so their transfer value will begin to plummet at the same time as the world enters year 2 of covid and most clubs will be looking to tighten their belts. It is reasonable to assume that many clubs would postpone signings to the following summer to get them on a Bosman instead of paying a transfer fee to get the player a year early. Plus they'll need to pay off Lennon and his crew and probably pay compensation to get their next manager, which won't come cheap if they want someone decent.

Trying to put figures on this is obviously difficult, but let's make some reasonable assumptions. Revenue down by £10m, wages maybe down by £2m, transfer net spend up by £7m. That's a loss of £15m right there, and I think that's quite conservative. We're then into the realms of speculation for what they could get for sales in the summer and what they'd need to spend, but it's probably not unreasonable to assume they'd need to find £20m over and above whatever they receive in order to build the squad back up. This is then on top of a probable collapse in ST sales - we've seen in the recent past how fickle their "supporters" are and losing the Ten will see a decent number turn their backs on their team.

Finally, on top of all of this there are 2 speculative areas of concern for them. Firstly, their stadium is coming to then end of it's scheduled lifespan but this may be more long-term and they could kick that can down the road. then there is the paedophile claims making their way through the courts, but we have no way of telling how this will turn out and how much they might have to pay. However, it must be of conern to those in charge at the club because worst-case scenario is a hefty compo bill (poss £20m) plus massive reputational and PR damage which would see their sponsors running for the hills.

They are far from finished but if we continue doing the right things then we could shortly be sitting very pretty with a big advantage over them for a number of years to come.
 
Is that similar to this once richest Irish guy?

Sean Quinn acquired a great deal of success through his investments in industries such as plastic, glass, and hotels. He also held a 25% stake in Anglo Irish Bank, which had to be bailed out by taxpayers during the 2008 financial crisis. The bank was taken over by the government, and thus began a series of legal troubles between the Quinn family and the bank.

Once considered to be the richest man in Ireland, Quinn lost a majority of his $2.8 billion fortune. At one point, the Irish Bank Resolution Corp., which took over Anglo Irish Bank, said Quinn owed the bank more than €2 billion.

Soon after, he was charged with contempt of court for attempting to hide his property assets from the bank in an effort to avoid paying back his debts. Financial Times reported that in November 2011, Quinn claimed his assets to be less than £50,000 and said he had applied for bankruptcy.

Kevin Lunney, a close associate of Sean Quinn and a director of Quinn Industrial Holdings, was abducted and beaten in September 2019, showing that there remains a lot of ill will towards Quinn and his company.



All these guys need is the wind to blow in the wrong direction for more than they had planned for.

What has this got to do with Desmond. The article I posted in from Forbes, probably the most respected magazine that investigates the financial well-being of the super rich. Also the article is in real time, meaning it is an estimated value of Desmond's wealth yesterday.
 
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