Celtic finances

david1982 said:
At the end of they day he is a businessman like Dave King.

Businessmen of that level have money for a reason and are pretty ruthless.

Both have emotional attachments to the 2 clubs hence their involvement, albeit for different reasons, they don't donate millions of pounds and just walk away from it.

In normal circumstances neither would be near either club as it doesn't make them money.
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Owning a football team can be detrimental to your wealth.
 
High Society said:
Partly correct, but Murray was very good at getting hard cash in whilst retaining complete control.

over an 10 year period he got

£20m from Dave King

£40m from Joe Lewis (Enic)

£18m from JD Sports

£10m from McLager (£1m annual sponsorship)

An astonishing amount of cash for almost 25 years ago. In addition he developed and sold the Catering Company (Azure) leaving us tied to a deal for 20 years IIRC

Plus he developed the ticket company from Edmiston house with John MacLelland. I think it was sold for a large sum. We ended up with our ticket office in Portacabins. Can’t remember the name of it?

Then there was the sale and lease back of Albion Car Park.

We were all too happy winning the leagues, trebles and basically dominating the game to listen to all the warning signs. In fact anyone, like The RST or Hugh Adams, who tried to criticise Murray was ridiculed and ostracised.

we can only hope that’s what’s coming for the mob across the city. It certainly won’t be easy to get hard cash into their club in the next few years.
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A certain poster on here called this out ( not me ), but he too was laughed at.
 
Kampbell said:
Absolutely nowhere mate. Made up by dreamers earlier in this thread and now taking a life of its own. They'll be nowhere near it.

Unfortunately Desmond has a habit of putting his hand in his pocket when it goes Pete tong over there let's hope this isn't the case this time.
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Desmond put his hand in his pocket? When was that? Think you’ll find that’s the same myth as Murray putting his hand in his pocket
 
Their financial position isn’t great. You’ll have their fans telling you they had £18m at bank in their last accounts... they did... however their net current assets were £2m (allowing for their cash at bank - I.e they owe most of that £18m in the near term). As a comparison our net current assets were 5x that at £10m. Their revenue had fallen and will have fallen further this year, whereas our revenue had risen despite covid.

This is before you consider they spent £15m throwing the kitchen sink at 10 in a row.

Our insurance claim also wasn’t fully included in our accounts. There is an additional £8.75m to be claimed for plus whatever else from this financial year. The Supreme Court ruling last week stated that insurers must pay out on business continuity claims in relation to COVID. We have business continuity insurance, they do not. Therefore we are in the main protected from the financial impact of COVID, they are not.

I could make a conservative estimate our revenue could be impacted by £15m this season due to lack of fans. That, plus the £10m from last season plus if we qualify for the champions league and they do not could see us with a £55m head start going into next season.
 
The admin rumours are nonsense. Basically they'll burn through their cash reserves and also their credit line and then downsize by selling off their 'assets' and replacing them on the cheap. There's a reason that they're struggling to replace Lennon and it's because no semi-decent manager is going to come into that environment. They'll either end up with someone desperate or someone from a lower level who'll be happy to be getting the increase in wages from their current job (i.e. somone like Jack Ross - but not necessarily him).

David King was right about the pack of cards and the Wuhan Loyal have done their bit by accelarating it as well.
 
cloodie said:
The admin rumours are nonsense. Basically they'll burn through their cash reserves and also their credit line and then downsize by selling off their 'assets' and replacing them on the cheap. There's a reason that they're struggling to replace Lennon and it's because no semi-decent manager is going to come into that environment. They'll either end up with someone desperate or someone from a lower level who'll be happy to be getting the increase in wages from their current job (i.e. somone like Jack Ross - but not necessarily him).

David King was right about the pack of cards and the Wuhan Loyal have done their bit by accelarating it as well.
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This is what I'm getting at on this thread. Admin is not going to happen but they don't have many sellable assets so any new players will be a downgrade while we go from strength to strength.
 
There will be no admin at Torbert Towers. They will however need to draw down on external funding to get through next season which will leave us at a distinct advantage should we make £20m from player trading and then there is a potential CL windfall (open to both clubs I should say).
 
EndOfDays said:
This is what I'm getting at on this thread. Admin is not going to happen but they don't have many sellable assets so any new players will be a downgrade while we go from strength to strength.
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Aye, it'll be a reduction in their cost base. Lower wages etc. Covid will have impacted transfer fees accross the board so they won't be getting the figures they hoped for for the likes of Edouard. He's coming into the last year of his contract as well iirc.
 
Kampbell said:
Absolutely nowhere mate. Made up by dreamers earlier in this thread and now taking a life of its own. They'll be nowhere near it.

Unfortunately Desmond has a habit of putting his hand in his pocket when it goes Pete tong over there let's hope this isn't the case this time.
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Desmond has not put money into Celtic for 17 years. He lured Rodgers and paid his package up from Liverpool but his wages went through the club.
 
These mental rumours of admin are just that mental. I really don't see that happening at all, unless all of those compensation claims go through the roof financially, like £20m plus, unless Dermott dips his hand in his pocket to pay that bill himself then Celtic are on shaky ground. I think there are financial limits on compensation though in this country, so I don't see the 21 plus claimants winning that sort of money in this country.

We are on the cusp of something here, winning the league, potential champions league, probably unprecedented requests for season tickets next season, merchandise will be flying off the shelfs. Being champions then adds another wee 0 onto some our players values even more so if we continue to progress in the Europa.

Celtic are going backwards, they have players who are no the value they expected now because contracts are running down and I doubt those guys will re-sign any new contract. Their new signings have been a disaster so no one will come in and give them money for them. Barkas will be there until his contract runs out, Laxalt and Duffy will not return, Kimala's fee will never be recouped, Soro will disappear as he is bang average, no one will buy Leigh Griffiths, Eduoard will go for probably less than 10m now. Their whole transfer strategy that has worked so well for them for years because of limited competition in Scotland is now back firing.

If we continue on our path and they continue on theirs then we could potentially dominate this league for years to come.
 
cloodie said:
The admin rumours are nonsense. Basically they'll burn through their cash reserves and also their credit line and then downsize by selling off their 'assets' and replacing them on the cheap. There's a reason that they're struggling to replace Lennon and it's because no semi-decent manager is going to come into that environment. They'll either end up with someone desperate or someone from a lower level who'll be happy to be getting the increase in wages from their current job (i.e. somone like Jack Ross - but not necessarily him).

David King was right about the pack of cards and the Wuhan Loyal have done their bit by accelarating it as well.
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You’re highlighting the major dilemma they have Cloodie.

Their hordes want a high profile name they can believe in, while their club are running at costs that are unsustainable.

They are in a no man’s land.
 
The valuation of all their major assets are dwindling as each month of their contract diminishes and whilst they got £25m for biscuit hips with 12 months left Tierney was more than likely ready to sign a new deal anyway if arsenal didn’t pay up. They won’t get that same luxury with the rest

If we get 55 and the champions league I think we could bury them for years! They have a monumental rebuilding job on their hands and spent £20m+ and only got Turnbull to show for it
 
If they manage to get good money for Edouarde after he's phoned it in the entire season I'll be amazed, and if they don't sell him before the end of the month that value should fall right down as he'll be in the last year of his contract.

He's their last really valuable player and that value must be dropping by the day.
 
EndOfDays said:
I really think they will go for Larrson, cheap but will keep them happy.
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I think its a stick on.

Giving the hordes someone they can get behind which will sell season tickets albeit who has no experience or track record who will also work under a DoF and hope for the same reaction as we are getting from Gerrard.
 
They are where they are due to their total hatred of Rangers.
I think they have qualified for CL in 2 out of 9 seasons
Their European performances & results especially last few years have shown a truer reflection of how good their team is.
But, they all ignored this on the basis that they we winning trophies domestically against no opposition & more importantly couldn't see Rangers winning again.
They thought they had finished us & that is all that mattered to them. It was no longer about how they were progressing it was all about them being safe in the knowledge Rangers weren't progressing & they believed we never would.
IF we can secure the title this season it will destroy them as a fan base. Financially, they are then left with hoping we can't qualify for CL & do they then take a gamble on how to get back on track which has no guarantees.
Whilst not winning trophies we could see with European results that Gerrard had something & it looks like it could be about to pay off
What do the Bheasts do next?
 
ronadamus_prime said:
They underestimated our chairman and board of directors, they completely underestimated how much they would persist with restoring us. I think they thought we would be at the mercy of the Spivs for a decade as well. Hence the penny pinching and hiring of sub par managers such as Lennon and Delia during those times. King and Co had some ups and downs initially but once they got things going, it was a question of when and not if, for us.

Let's face it, the 2 and half seasons under Rodgers amounted to nothing more than a hubristic show of force by them. Like a dictator showing off the might of their ageing military by parading them regularly. Only need to look at their European misadventures during that time, to see it wasn't cut out for much else. They never had a plan in place for when Rodgers eventually left. They haven't built anything or even laid the groundwork for something since he left them high and dry. That was near enough 2 years ago. This is all on them. They blew it and it seems like it's going to cost them quite a bit more than just 10iar.
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That’s why Rodgers left, he’d taken them as far as he could. Won a couple of trebles against a poor league and Rangers side, got them into the champions league, which he’d be lucky, given the standard he was playing against every week, to get them out the group stages. He saw the light and even though money talks he needed a bigger challenge at Leicester, as he’s an good ambitious manager. All the rage when he left was laughable, thought they were bigger than they really were. Most of their CL money was being shared out among Liewell and their board all giving themselves pats on the back. Once he left they went back to the cheap option as they thought we’d never be back.
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
True, but Larsson has already been in jobs & not succeeded has he not ?

This was Gerrard’s first job.

He’s just moved to Barca as Asst Manager too, so I’d be amazed if he left that job for them now.
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Not to sure, I know he managed the swedish team he played for. Never knew he was at barca, yeah and I doubt he would swap that for Parkpead.
 
Bowery Boy said:
The CL is the holy grail. I don't think we've ever had a manager who I'd have more confidence in qualifying than Gerrard.
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Correct BB.

We’d have made the CL against any of Celtic’s qualifying opponents in the last two years with Gerrard, even with the squad he had after his first window.

Complete and utter confidence in this.
 
El Mas Loco said:
If we do get into the CL then I pray that the money is spent wisely. I’m sorry, but I can’t get excited about guys from Preston or Bournemouth and I can’t envision them making us a lot of money in the future.
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Kamara from Dundee?
Aribo from Charlton?
Barisic from Osijek?
Morelos from a small Finnish team?
 
noeyboy said:
Not to sure, I know he managed the swedish team he played for. Never knew he was at barca, yeah and I doubt he would swap that for Parkpead.
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I checked it up & Helsingborgs was the best Swedish team he managed. Think they may be his home town club ?

But yes he’s not long at Barca, so I think it would be unlikely.

I’m sure he remembers being booed when he played there for Barca too, so he will know them well enough LOL
 
The issue they have is the sustainability of their model is Champions league group stage football or sell a player for £30m each season. That relies on buying players that will appreciate in value and aggressively managing their contracts to protect their value.

So for example Morelos bought for £1m and now worth £15m +. That requires a very good recruitment system and needs acceptance from the support that players will be sold and you will have seasons of failure in that system

Failure in the pitch will mean downsizing and starting again. Like Ajax have done over the years.

We can gloat just now and why not after the last lot of years. But we will have the same situation over time. Recruitment is the key to success. Everything has to be organised around that.
 
They’ll likely lose Ajer, Duffy, Elhamed, Laxalt, Brown, Ntcham, Christie, Elyanousi and Eduoard either before the end of January or in the summer.

Even though Ajer, Ntcham, Christie and Eduoard are all entering the final 12/18 months of their deals, I still think they’ll get £30/40million on for those 4 in total.

They definitely won’t be going into admin but they’ll be losing a massive amount of “talent” and downsizing. Whilst at the same time having a more difficult route into the champions league and trying to attract a good manager.

Get this league title wrapped up and invest money wisely this summer and we could be looking at dominating for 3/4/5 years.
 
Mr_Miscellaneous said:
The reason they keep banging on about being "the most affected club by covid" is because (without player sales) they are staring down the barrel at a £40-45m loss.

You might think that's fanciful, but look at what you mentioned.

Their operating loss (if you exclude player sales) was £24.9m last season. Factor in wage increases, Bonuses paid out for competition "wins", loan fee's, £10-12m of spending on transfers, significantly lower season ticket uptake, over-reliance upon footfall for attendance at games than season ticket sales, lack of business interruption insurance and then their dismal performance in European competition then their revenue falls off a cliff and their expenditure explodes.

Then there's the other factor; The accounts show the cash is gone and the credit lines are being opened with commercial banks. They're debt loading, at an awful time to do so, which means n the very near future they will have to either get a mass injection of money (not happening due to being uncompetitive) or selling players.

But how do you sell that set of players for maximum value? They've been on a highly publicised piss-up which isn't exactly going to increase their value, the ones they definitely want to sell are isolating for 10 days because of CoVid, they're in a slump, several want out and their contracts are running into the 18 month territory which depreciates the value significantly.

They have run themselves into a real, real bind here and it is delightful.
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I certainly don't find a £40-45m loss for them fanciful. It's exactly in the region I was thinking about.
 
Northhiglander said:
The issue they have is the sustainability of their model is Champions league group stage football or sell a player for £30m each season. That relies on buying players that will appreciate in value and aggressively managing their contracts to protect their value.

So for example Morelos bought for £1m and now worth £15m +. That requires a very good recruitment system and needs acceptance from the support that players will be sold and you will have seasons of failure in that system

Failure in the pitch will mean downsizing and starting again. Like Ajax have done over the years.

We can gloat just now and why not after the last lot of years. But we will have the same situation over time. Recruitment is the key to success. Everything has to be organised around that.
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Good post NHG.

And managing those players contracts ( eg Aribo & Kamara just now ) will be vital.
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
You’re highlighting the major dilemma they have Cloodie.

Their hordes want a high profile name they can believe in, while their club are running at costs that are unsustainable.

They are in a no man’s land.
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It’s been amusing to watch them. In Kerrydale there was the usual nonsense about who they wanted but their expectations have gone downhill recently and the desperation to get rid of Lennon means they’ll accept almost anyone. It’s been a strange old season when they’ve gone from recently hoping for Benitez (no chance) to where they will accept almost anyone (except Roy Keane :D).
 
cloodie said:
It’s been amusing to watch them. In Kerrydale there was the usual nonsense about who they wanted but their expectations have gone downhill recently and the desperation to get rid of Lennon means they’ll accept almost anyone. It’s been a strange old season when they’ve gone from recently hoping for Benitez (no chance) to where they will accept almost anyone (except Roy Keane :D).
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It’s been better than we could have hoped for.

55 was everything for us, but to get so much entertainment thrown in free of charge & at their expense Cloodie ?

Phantasmagorical.
 
Grigo Yossarian said:
It’s been better than we could have hoped for.

55 was everything for us, but to get so much entertainment thrown in free of charge & at their expense Cloodie ?

Phantasmagorical.
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They’re trying to cram the banter years into one season :D No one could’ve seen a timplosion of this magnitude happening over such a short period of time. It’s glorious.
 
cloodie said:
They’re trying to cram the banter years into one season :D No one could’ve seen a timplosion of this magnitude happening over such a short period of time. It’s glorious.
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As you say, we’ve almost had as much fun in a few weeks than they’ve had in 9 years.

They’re 9IAR will be remembered for the green seat fancy dress outfits they’ve been wearing for years.
 
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