Duff and Duffer trial

Really? BDO are bringing the case - they've hired a no win/no fee legal team same as they did when they went after CollyerBristow - so they can get more money for the Creditors pot. That's what their 'job' is.

As I've said earlier, had D&P gone down the route BDO have suggested they should have then it could have been disastrous for the Club. That matters not a jot now, but if they can win this case and get more cash for Creditors then more power to their elbow. That's a good thing. No? BDO, in my opinion (as one of the Creditors like many other on here) have done a pretty good job of making the best of the mess they inherited that they can.
Yes I'm suspicious of BDO, and their motives for bringing this case.
Selling Ibrox and the training ground is great way of hammering nails into Rangers' coffin. Throw in a wildly exaggerated tax bill, malicious prosecutions of all major players buying the club, ridiculous levels of hostility and malevolence being generated by HMRC leaks, the BBC, and an independence referendum. It wouldn't surprise me to learn some catholic beast supporting faction struck a deal with the SNP to mobilise for independence on condition Rangers got shut down.
Then we learn of the Crown office antics. They have the power to keep evidence out of the hands of Holyrood committees, they can stop any stories in the media that threaten Natzi Nicola's reputation, they can try helping to put a former first minister in jail, they even try to put frighteners on MP's in London looking into the Salmond scandal. How the f*ck did all the arrests in the Rangers case come about? I don't believe that shite about it happening due to a mix up over signatures, or lack of, on arrest warrants.
I'm asking myself what could it mean for Rangers now if BDO win this case. Nobody should think it means nothing because it is oldco related, and can't therefore affect Newco. Newco had to pay all of oldco's football debts, and the RFFF paid most, if not all, small creditors. So old co liabilities can find their way into newco's business. The arrogance of Rangers hating scumbags prepared to abuse the power of their positions to hurt us knows no bounds. I wonder what Ibrox and RTC is valued at? Over 100m I would think. Wouldn't Scotland's Rangers hating scumbags love to find a way to recover costs to the public purse of their corrupt behaviour off Rangers. I bet they would love to try.
 
Yes I'm suspicious of BDO, and their motives for bringing this case.
Selling Ibrox and the training ground is great way of hammering nails into Rangers' coffin. Throw in a wildly exaggerated tax bill, malicious prosecutions of all major players buying the club, ridiculous levels of hostility and malevolence being generated by HMRC leaks, the BBC, and an independence referendum. It wouldn't surprise me to learn some catholic beast supporting faction struck a deal with the SNP to mobilise for independence on condition Rangers got shut down.
Then we learn of the Crown office antics. They have the power to keep evidence out of the hands of Holyrood committees, they can stop any stories in the media that threaten Natzi Nicola's reputation, they can try helping to put a former first minister in jail, they even try to put frighteners on MP's in London looking into the Salmond scandal. How the f*ck did all the arrests in the Rangers case come about? I don't believe that shite about it happening due to a mix up over signatures, or lack of, on arrest warrants.
I'm asking myself what could it mean for Rangers now if BDO win this case. Nobody should think it means nothing because it is oldco related, and can't therefore affect Newco. Newco had to pay all of oldco's football debts, and the RFFF paid most, if not all, small creditors. So old co liabilities can find their way into newco's business. The arrogance of Rangers hating scumbags prepared to abuse the power of their positions to hurt us knows no bounds. I wonder what Ibrox and RTC is valued at? Over 100m I would think. Wouldn't Scotland's Rangers hating scumbags love to find a way to recover costs to the public purse of their corrupt behaviour off Rangers. I bet they would love to try.
I think you are miles off the mark on BDO. Yes, newco inherited oldco’s football debts. That’s a vagary of the football world - one of the things HMRC regularly rail against -and failing to do so could have resulted in no licence to play. That’s entirely different to what we have here. Proving D&P could have taken an alternative route does not unravel what they did do. It simply highlights that they may have been incompetent.

Furthermore, notwithstandimg the RFFF paying some of the Creditors those folk remain, legally, Creditors of the oldco and will have received payments from BDO and will, no doubt, receive more. Ironically that means some of them will actually have come out ahead in all of this. Crazy, I know.
 
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Maybe it’s best to take this step by step and see what , if any , evidence we can glean from each of those .
It would be terrific to see this step lead to criminal investigations from a fully neutral entity ahem
 
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Who is your MSP mate? And with all the scumbaggery going on at the Crown office who can rule out your MSP was warned off.
The justice minister, the Crown, Police Scotland, are any of them trustworthy? Scotland is in the toilet.
Conservative, so unlikely to sit on his hands if he could get in a dig at the SNP you would like to think. Who knows with politicians though.
 
Conservative, so unlikely to sit on his hands if he could get in a dig at the SNP you would like to think. Who knows with politicians though.
Was it Adam Tomkins?
He got very involved, briefly, with Celtic Boys Club abuse. Then he bailed out with no explanation.
Tomkins has now stood down from Holyrood.
 
Was it Adam Tomkins?
He got very involved, briefly, with Celtic Boys Club abuse. Then he bailed out with no explanation.
Tomkins has now stood down from Holyrood.
No it isn’t Tomkins, our guy is up for re-election.
 
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Mulholland's paws are all over this imo.
Why is this not the subject of an independent public enquiry? If there is such a thing possible in Scotland.
 
What I see is a man who went to Scot Gov for additional funding leading to a case which was later conceded to be Malicious , not just short of evidence outright malicious , was not involved in the rigour and strategy of that same case .
 
You'd think this was all just a big scam all round. A lot of money to share around.

Scammers of club appoint scammer administrators who are charged completely negligently and incompetently to ensure compensation, by scammer prosecutors.

Sorry just thinking out loud for a book plot I was milling around, Irvine Welsh style you know? ;)
Does that mean you chop up the bodies of all the scum scammers involved and distribute the body parts all around the world?
 
It seems everyone involved in this is a liar, it's just a case of trying to work out who is the worst (or the best ) at it.
 
That is such a misleading headline.

The D&P guy states the process was difficult and stressful, which is totally different from saying it was difficult to find a buyer.

Whyte, in cohorts with Green, had already arranged to buy back the club. We also had interest and bids in from other groups such as the Paul Murray/Walter Smith consortium, and Jim McColl/Souness. So they very clearly would have had no problem in getting a buyer whatsoever, especially when it appears the deal was already done beforehand with Whyte and Green.


As for the name of the Record reporter in this article, surely not a relation to Frank Mulholland??? Or London QC James Mulholland? Or shamed mortgage broker Iain Mulholland, brother of QC Frank?
 
BDO believe D&P should have sold off oldco's assets to the highest bidders rather than finding a buyer who wanted to run Rangers FC as a going concern. BDO's way would have killed Rangers.
I'm beginning to think the only party with any credibility in oldco's demise are D&P. It was always a football club administration to them. Whereas for others it was a vehicle for just about every nefarious agenda you can think of.
 
BDO believe D&P should have sold off oldco's assets to the highest bidders rather than finding a buyer who wanted to run Rangers FC as a going concern. BDO's way would have killed Rangers.
I'm beginning to think the only party with any credibility in oldco's demise are D&P. It was always a football club administration to them. Whereas for others it was a vehicle for just about every nefarious agenda you can think of.

D+P were in on Whyte effectively using Ticketus money to buy Rangers - once that happened it is difficult to see a way back. They also sold the club to Green when there were other interested parties. They came up here to make a few quid and were caught out by the size of the club and the attention it receives.

BDO are using any argument they can to get money back for the creditors - that is their job. There are definitely some rangers friendly operators in BDO. Who knows, if BDO are successful enough there could be life in the old co yet.
 
D+P were in on Whyte effectively using Ticketus money to buy Rangers - once that happened it is difficult to see a way back. They also sold the club to Green when there were other interested parties. They came up here to make a few quid and were caught out by the size of the club and the attention it receives.

BDO are using any argument they can to get money back for the creditors - that is their job. There are definitely some rangers friendly operators in BDO. Who knows, if BDO are successful enough there could be life in the old co yet.
Is there a shred of evidence D&P knew anything about Whyte's takeover funding? And if there is what should they have done about it? D&P had no stake in Rangers until administration arrived.
 
BDO believe D&P should have sold off oldco's assets to the highest bidders rather than finding a buyer who wanted to run Rangers FC as a going concern. BDO's way would have killed Rangers.
I'm beginning to think the only party with any credibility in oldco's demise are D&P. It was always a football club administration to them. Whereas for others it was a vehicle for just about every nefarious agenda you can think of.
D+P were in on Whyte effectively using Ticketus money to buy Rangers - once that happened it is difficult to see a way back. They also sold the club to Green when there were other interested parties. They came up here to make a few quid and were caught out by the size of the club and the attention it receives.

BDO are using any argument they can to get money back for the creditors - that is their job. There are definitely some rangers friendly operators in BDO. Who knows, if BDO are successful enough there could be life in the old co yet.
You are correct that what BDO say should have happened would probably have killed the Club. That's not the issue here. It didn't happen and it will not happen.

The entire BDO argument is that had D&P taken that course of action then Creditors would have benefited. They are legally obliged to pursue any action that benefits Creditors. BDO don't have to agree that was the 'best' course of action for the Club, just that it would have raised more money. I think they've raised this action on a no win-no fee basis, same as the Collyer Bristow one.

Unlike @mart22 I'm firmly of the opinion that its actually BDO who are the only ones playing this with a straight bat. I had faith in D & P at the start but it think they got sucked in the longer the Admin went on and went a bit 'rogue'. Just an impression I got.
 
We've got to the stage where I genuinely believe that we are unlikely to see any punishment of the bastards behind all of this, in a way that we as Rangers fans, shareholders, investors, season ticket holders etc will ever find satisfactory. The process of obfuscation has sufficiently muddied the waters now. Ultimately I think time and the grim reaper will be serve up the justice we all crave, I can't see it happening in any law court any time soon. However, for now we can at least sit back and enjoy being back on top, whilst watching the various rats all biting away at each other.

We should never ever forget though, nor should we ever allow any Rangers board to sleepwalk us into such a vulnerable position ever again.
 
That is such a misleading headline.

The D&P guy states the process was difficult and stressful, which is totally different from saying it was difficult to find a buyer.

Whyte, in cohorts with Green, had already arranged to buy back the club. We also had interest and bids in from other groups such as the Paul Murray/Walter Smith consortium, and Jim McColl/Souness. So they very clearly would have had no problem in getting a buyer whatsoever, especially when it appears the deal was already done beforehand with Whyte and Green.


As for the name of the Record reporter in this article, surely not a relation to Frank Mulholland??? Or London QC James Mulholland? Or shamed mortgage broker Iain Mulholland, brother of QC Frank?
Dont know the answer to your question but I do know that James Mulholland used to write for the NOTW.I complained to them via email after he described "The Sash My Father Wore" as a "sectarian anthem" in one of his regular digs at us
 
All evidence points to BDO playing with a straight (if expensive) bat throughout. Only a blot on UK financial law resulted in retrospective tax liability for EBTs. That breaking & selling plc assets would have ended RFC may be true, but BDO's point is that the administrator failed their prime duty - optimizing creditors' return. Why D&P didn't do so is far more interesting & opaque.
 
You are correct that what BDO say should have happened would probably have killed the Club. That's not the issue here. It didn't happen and it will not happen.

The entire BDO argument is that had D&P taken that course of action then Creditors would have benefited. They are legally obliged to pursue any action that benefits Creditors. BDO don't have to agree that was the 'best' course of action for the Club, just that it would have raised more money. I think they've raised this action on a no win-no fee basis, same as the Collyer Bristow one.

Unlike @mart22 I'm firmly of the opinion that its actually BDO who are the only ones playing this with a straight bat. I had faith in D & P at the start but it think they got sucked in the longer the Admin went on and went a bit 'rogue'. Just an impression I got.
I understand why you have this opinion. You may well be right.
However, I can't help feeling that BDO's action against D&P is in some way influenced by shadowy Rangers hating scumbags hell bent on finding anything, anything at all, to make them feel better about Rangers first of all surviving, and now thriving.
There must be an economic factor to consider in our insolvency event. What would it cost Glasgow and Scotland to loose Rangers? Far more than our creditors were going to lose I would think.
And D&P's performance is far more impressive than they are given credit for. They had the Ticketus agreement dissolved, overturned the SFA's illegal transfer ban, and genuinely tried to take us out of administration. They did fall short in negotiations with HMRC when they believed HMRC telling them a CVA wasn't off the table, and also in the TUPE process with players.
Disappointed suitors after the assets sale might feel D&P went 'rogue', and say as much. However, from what I can tell it was a well managed process. The successful buyer did all that was asked of them within the deadline they were given. Others didn't, including the Blue Knights who fell short in quantum.
 
While I have no time for him I like to think David E Murray was still doing what he could to get as best s possible an outcome for the Club . It would be very hard for me to believe even he wanted the thing to collapse and be sold off .

and he was involved in handing it over to Whyte . For a pound . To me they would have wanted it kept as one and that is what D&P achieved . I just have a vibe that that was by design .

re these actions by BDO it’s completely logical and reasonable to make lol sorts of challenges under this process . It’s positive as the club are safe now .
 
The whole debacle of Murray's sale of the club to Whyte, through to Green, D&P, the Spivs. Then the continuation through to Ashley, and even including HMRC is all as crooked as hell. Massive scam were dodgey people made a bundle
I just hope we can one day find out who instigated it all, I believe that the likes of whyte and Green did not appear just off their own back and who backed them to carry out this scam is key. Often with financial crime it’s case of following the money, they all gained but the biggest business to gain was the one who ended up with a free run at all awards/money. It may be a bit far fetched but they have had people involved in far sinister crimes before.
 
While I have no time for him I like to think David E Murray was still doing what he could to get as best s possible an outcome for the Club . It would be very hard for me to believe even he wanted the thing to collapse and be sold off .

and he was involved in handing it over to Whyte . For a pound . To me they would have wanted it kept as one and that is what D&P achieved . I just have a vibe that that was by design .

re these actions by BDO it’s completely logical and reasonable to make lol sorts of challenges under this process . It’s positive as the club are safe now .
Murray knew alright.
People like Whyte do not dupe the David Murray's of this world.
 
While I have no time for him I like to think David E Murray was still doing what he could to get as best s possible an outcome for the Club . It would be very hard for me to believe even he wanted the thing to collapse and be sold off .

and he was involved in handing it over to Whyte . For a pound . To me they would have wanted it kept as one and that is what D&P achieved . I just have a vibe that that was by design .

re these actions by BDO it’s completely logical and reasonable to make lol sorts of challenges under this process . It’s positive as the club are safe now .
Why do you give Murray such grace?
I doubt that Murray has even watched a single Rangers match since the day he unloaded us.
For Murray we were a vehicle for exploitation, both financially and reputationally.
We gave him a public profile that mere success in business cannot on its own provide.
His interest in the club was never emotional when you separated it from his own selfish personal bottom lines.

He was a scunner and his involvement in our club scunnered us all.
If I never heard his name again in association to Rangers it wouldn't be soon enough.
 
I must be getting even more paranoid than before I read this thread as I feel that the whole thing was planned and rigged before the first whiff of EBTs wafted up the noses of the Scottish media. We have Reid fulminating about "nailing Rangers to the floor", before this even started so ,he must have had an idea or an inkling of what was coming down the pipe. This puts him in the frame for the whole sorry saga and I am surprised; well, not really, that the media hasn't mentioned him.

Anyhoo, from Reid, through his political chums in charge of HMRS it is an easy step to the prosecution and persecution of Rangers. Tell the media that Rangers owe about 100 million to the tax man as EBTs were illegal and wait for everything else to fall into place. Insolvency with that sum hovering over us makes us impossible to sell and our only option is either Bankruptcy or a quick sale for peanuts to an asset stripper which is what happened. Enter Whyte, Greene and Ashley in quick succession to tear chunks off of our carcass.

Now, everyone involved has been given a great honking pile of money from the State either as recompense for their actions or as thanks for a successful result.

As I said, paranoia is in ma heid and my words should not be taken seriously just in case some Baron or ink stained wretch has any ideas of suing me.
 
I understand why you have this opinion. You may well be right.
However, I can't help feeling that BDO's action against D&P is in some way influenced by shadowy Rangers hating scumbags hell bent on finding anything, anything at all, to make them feel better about Rangers first of all surviving, and now thriving.
There must be an economic factor to consider in our insolvency event. What would it cost Glasgow and Scotland to loose Rangers? Far more than our creditors were going to lose I would think.
And D&P's performance is far more impressive than they are given credit for. They had the Ticketus agreement dissolved, overturned the SFA's illegal transfer ban, and genuinely tried to take us out of administration. They did fall short in negotiations with HMRC when they believed HMRC telling them a CVA wasn't off the table, and also in the TUPE process with players.
Disappointed suitors after the assets sale might feel D&P went 'rogue', and say as much. However, from what I can tell it was a well managed process. The successful buyer did all that was asked of them within the deadline they were given. Others didn't, including the Blue Knights who fell short in quantum.
As you suggest @mart22 I think it was more towards the end of the Admin process I began to question D & P and their motives. I suspect they started out well-intentioned but the whole thing just ran away from them and they ended up going down the rabbit hole. Not helped, of course, by the release of various tape recordings that evidenced there was some sort of collusion between Whyte and Green. That revelation - if they were unaware of it before - left them in a very difficult position and they probably struggled to find a 'clean' way out. I guess we will never know the true facts. They've been acquitted in Court and, on a personal level, have come out of it with bulging bank balances. That alone always makes me suspicious.

In terms of BDO as a Creditor myself, like many others on here, I wish them every success in gathering another huge sum for disbursement to Creditors. From their perspective its the right thing to do and, as far as I'm concerned, it does no harm to, nor displays any malice towards, Rangers.
 
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While I have no time for him I like to think David E Murray was still doing what he could to get as best s possible an outcome for the Club . It would be very hard for me to believe even he wanted the thing to collapse and be sold off .

and he was involved in handing it over to Whyte . For a pound . To me they would have wanted it kept as one and that is what D&P achieved . I just have a vibe that that was by design .

re these actions by BDO it’s completely logical and reasonable to make lol sorts of challenges under this process . It’s positive as the club are safe now .
You say that like Murray had a say in the matter by that stage.
 
Furthermore, notwithstandimg the RFFF paying some of the Creditors those folk remain, legally, Creditors of the oldco and will have received payments from BDO and will, no doubt, receive more. Ironically that means some of them will actually have come out ahead in all of this. Crazy, I know.

It wasn't a condition of receiving money from RFFF, that the Creditor removed their name from the creditors list?
 
It wasn't a condition of receiving money from RFFF, that the Creditor removed their name from the creditors list?
I know Creditors could ask to ADD their names to the Creditors list. I’m not sure if you could ask to be REMOVED from the Creditors list. I doubt very much the RFFF, or the many fans who made personal payments to those Creditors, would have put any riders on it.
 
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You say that like Murray had a say in the matter by that stage.
Well it was a long time on the brewing EOD so I’d hope he managed to influence it to some degree .

the point is the outcome while at the time felt and was cataclysmic could have been devastating and all but finished the club . Some people involved probably wished for that outcome.

and I don’t really believe that it would have been Chance nor Luck .
 
Well it was a long time on the brewing EOD so I’d hope he managed to influence it to some degree .

the point is the outcome while at the time felt and was cataclysmic could have been devastating and all but finished the club . Some people involved probably wished for that outcome.

and I don’t really believe that it would have been Chance nor Luck .
By that point Murray didn't have the authority to send someone out to buy coffees.
 
You'd think this was all just a big scam all round. A lot of money to share around.

Scammers of club appoint scammer administrators who are charged completely negligently and incompetently to ensure compensation, by scammer prosecutors.

Sorry just thinking out loud for a book plot I was milling around, Irvine Welsh style you know? ;)
How's the book coming along :D
 
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