General Meeting: Club 1872

Upsetting your pals am I, tell them to get used to it as I won't be going away
Pass my message on because they have not had the courtesy to reply to any of my emails
Let me get this straight - you won't reveal your plans because people would be hounded, at the same time as you're revelling in doing that exact thing. Just so we're clear?
 
I think many of us regard it as a real surprise that they are buying them from someone who said they were his children’s inheritance at a time and a price when they had the option to purchase new shares which would have seen the same number of shares bought but the money spent going straight into the club as new funds.
So the issue is where the shares are coming from? I'm not sure why that matters. Did you complain when they bought shares from Ashley?

I'm not aware the King shares have even been purchased yet, and you obviously know the purchase is being delayed due to the share issue, so I'm trying my best but I really don't see what the substance of your complaint is.
 
So the issue is where the shares are coming from? I'm not sure why that matters. Did you complain when they bought shares from Ashley?

I'm not aware the King shares have even been purchased yet, and you obviously know the purchase is being delayed due to the share issue, so I'm trying my best but I really don't see what the substance of your complaint is.
You really are outing yourself, can you tell me about ' my pal's' that I'm upset about
 
So the issue is where the shares are coming from? I'm not sure why that matters. Did you complain when they bought shares from Ashley?

I'm not aware the King shares have even been purchased yet, and you obviously know the purchase is being delayed due to the share issue, so I'm trying my best but I really don't see what the substance of your complaint is.
The issue is the money should go directly to the Club
 
So the issue is where the shares are coming from? I'm not sure why that matters. Did you complain when they bought shares from Ashley?

I'm not aware the King shares have even been purchased yet, and you obviously know the purchase is being delayed due to the share issue, so I'm trying my best but I really don't see what the substance of your complaint is.
You’re comparing loaves with fishes on the Ashley deal.

The point I am making is this - Dave said he invested with the full knowledge and agreement of his family that he was investing their inheritance. But once he ceases being Chairman he wants his money out, and can the fans pay for them please. Oh, and I’ll do the current Board the “courtesy” of telling them about the scheme 15 minutes before it is launched.

We can never be thankful enough to him for his work in getting the Spivs out but lets not pretend he’s a saint or that this intervention is motivated by much other than self-interest.
 
Going around in circles now so might as well wrap it for the night. If the club keeps issuing shares forever then that means it's in trouble. Sooner or later Club 1872 will need to buy shares on the market. The sooner we all accept that the better.
The point is - they don’t need to do it now or in the immediate future as the club will clearly keep issuing them over the next few seasons.
 
You’re comparing loaves with fishes on the Ashley deal.

The point I am making is this - Dave said he invested with the full knowledge and agreement of his family that he was investing their inheritance. But once he ceases being Chairman he wants his money out, and can the fans pay for them please. Oh, and I’ll do the current Board the “courtesy” of telling them about the scheme 15 minutes before it is launched.

We can never be thankful enough to him for his work in getting the Spivs out but lets not pretend he’s a saint or that this intervention is motivated by much other than self-interest.
What you say about King may be true but it's also totally irrelevant. He wants to sell shares, Club 1872 exists to buy shares. Why you insist on creating drama around that is a mystery.
 
The point is - they don’t need to do it now or in the immediate future as the club will clearly keep issuing them over the next few seasons.
Crikey, the next few seasons? We're in for a rough ride if that prediction is borne out. 12-18 months from sustainability according to John Bennett on the Louden podcast the other day.
 
What you say about King may be true but it's also totally irrelevant. He wants to sell shares, Club 1872 exists to buy shares. Why you insist on creating drama around that is a mystery.
But he clearly said his shareholding was his family’s inheritance and not a vanity purchase. So, why is he selling other than for the fact he’s no longer in control of the club?
 
People like me? The only hounding going on is from the likes of you going after the current directors. Maybe the people you have in mind should be careful they don't cross you at some point in the future.
For the last 4 years the current direction of Club1872 has gone backwards. In 2017 there was a clear focus and drive to get members. It always stagnated at 7K why was that? Because the board didn’t have the drive or hunger to double those numbers. Also Chris Graham is a charlatan who should be nowhere near the organisation in any capacity. The man had a conflict of interest as he was being paid by King but also being a consultant to the club 1872 board.
 
You’re comparing loaves with fishes on the Ashley deal.

The point I am making is this - Dave said he invested with the full knowledge and agreement of his family that he was investing their inheritance. But once he ceases being Chairman he wants his money out, and can the fans pay for them please. Oh, and I’ll do the current Board the “courtesy” of telling them about the scheme 15 minutes before it is launched.

We can never be thankful enough to him for his work in getting the Spivs out but lets not pretend he’s a saint or that this intervention is motivated by much other than self-interest.
Nobody would ever describe King as a saint. He also said right from the start that he couldn't devote the amount of time and energy he was putting into the club for ever, he would need to stabilise and then leave it for others to take forward.

Think King has been quite transparent. I am not sure about the club 1872 deal and his shares. If he really just wanted his money out he would have simply sold to someone else, one of the investors he got to the table. He isn't pushing for his cash quickly.

He raises decent questions about Malcolm Murray, think it is right they are aired. Murray was involved with Ashley coming into the club.
 
Nobody would ever describe King as a saint. He also said right from the start that he couldn't devote the amount of time and energy he was putting into the club for ever, he would need to stabilise and then leave it for others to take forward.

Think King has been quite transparent. I am not sure about the club 1872 deal and his shares. If he really just wanted his money out he would have simply sold to someone else, one of the investors he got to the table. He isn't pushing for his cash quickly.

He raises decent questions about Malcolm Murray, think it is right they are aired. Murray was involved with Ashley coming into the club.
Dave said he would leave his shares in Rangers until he was no longer with us, why don't you ask him
Ps I can't thank him enough what he did for us
 
@Robert Marshall @mdingwall Can I just say gents, dont fall into the trap of petty squabbles. The governance issues are the main concern and I believe the driving force behind this attempt at a GM, @MacaroniPie has just got both of you muddying the waters with tit for tat over share issues, which is the end game, is very important but makes it difficult for people to stay focused on the facts that have been presented with regards to the board and associates of Club1872 within the thread.
 
@Robert Marshall @mdingwall Can I just say gents, dont fall into the trap of petty squabbles. The governance issues are the main concern and I believe the driving force behind this attempt at a GM, @MacaroniPie has just got both of you muddying the waters with tit for tat over share issues, which is the end game, is very important but makes it difficult for people to stay focused on the facts that have been presented with regards to the board and associates of Club1872 within the thread.
You are right, If he is happy then I'm happy for him
 
@Robert Marshall @mdingwall Can I just say gents, dont fall into the trap of petty squabbles. The governance issues are the main concern and I believe the driving force behind this attempt at a GM, @MacaroniPie has just got both of you muddying the waters with tit for tat over share issues, which is the end game, is very important but makes it difficult for people to stay focused on the facts that have been presented with regards to the board and associates of Club1872 within the thread.
Having had a look at his posting history - including some from a deleted threat from last year about Stuart MacQuarrie - I think the pattern clearly establishes who and what he is.

The rapidity of posts allied to the offensive know it all and sneering responses are clearly intend to have an effect but it merely confirms in the mind of neutral readers that ulterior motives are being served.
 
I have no recollection of ever saying anything like that as I believe everything should be open and transparent, did I say it, and have you taken it out of context?
I have a great job thanks, and if they asked me to be a Consultant, I would have done it for nothing
I'm quoting you verbatim from this very site. I'm delighted you have a great job. I'm sure many Bears who saw through Chris Graham years before you did have found equally rewarding employment.
 
I think the best chance maybe the only chance club 1872 has to work is to be run by non rangers fans. Proper professionals with no other motivation such as blazer chasing or in it for self interest . How many times have these fans groups ended up the same way as club 1872 is currently . Get neutrals in and pay them salaries. Sure it might cost more money but if it operates properly it’s worth it
 
So, to be clear from @CupidStunt post earlier, Chris Graham was receiving £60k pa from Rangers, sanctioned by Dave King and was happening for 5 years? What was he getting paid for?

And it stopped once the current board found out, how did they not already know? Would somebody like Andrew Dickson not be privy to that information.

Did King see C1872 as the only vehicle to get his money back and paid Graham to work 'in the shadows' to facilitate it?
 
I have no idea why people give money to any group to buy shares. It never ends well. Save your money till you can buy shares in your own name.

Said it from the word go. The organisation should have been set up to attract tens of thousands of members and not purely a share buying enterprise. Its no surprise to me that less than 10k people joined.

We could have had one of the largest organisations in the UK with 200,000+ members. That gives you real political clout and might even make the bigots in the media and elsewhere think twice before attacking us. Instead we have an organisation that's powerless and irrelevant.
 
The only agenda I have is to see Club 1872 adheres to the Principle of one man one vote, with transparency, and stop all the pie in the sky nonsense

I guess we’ll see. I think it would be useful for everyone to hear both sides of the story.

It would also be nice if energy was going into growing the membership and influencing the running of Club 1872 that way vs another tiresome bitchfest on followfollow.
 
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I guess we’ll see. I think it would be useful for everyone to hear both sides of the story.

It would also be nice if energy was going into growing the membership and influencing the running of Club 1872 that way vs another tiresome bitchfest on followfollow.
Two things about this; the current directors at C1872 have had more than enough opportunity to address the allegations. They’ve stayed silent. It would be useful to hear both sides of the story, but one side seems to be bunkering down, safe in the knowledge that - as a result of their re-writing of the articles - they “have the votes” to control the Board of C1872 for the next 3-5 years.

The second thing is that you’re suggesting people put their energy into influencing C1872…in response to a request for backers for an EGM. I’m not sure there is a more direct way to influence the running of C1872 than calling and EGM to propose a vote of no confidence in the Directors.

I know Robert and I don’t share the same opinion on everything, there are things he’s said even in this thread I disagree with. But he’s doing absolutely the right thing here and for the right reasons. Propose a vote of no confidence, at the point we know that vote will be allowed, outline the choice he’s putting to members. Members can then decide.

I genuinely can’t see what’s to criticise about that. If you support the current Board then vote against the no confidence motion. If you don’t like the proposal Robert puts forward at that vote, vote against it.
 
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I was a member and stopped paying this year. I think that some fan ownership can be a check and balance against another Murray situation, that was why I paid in money.

Reading the allegations on here, it does not look good on the current board. The fact that three people appear to have a controlling interest is not good governance.

If I was in the current boards place and if I was confident of what I’d done during my term in office. Having an EGM could be a great way to get rid of these allegations. Rewriting the articles to add another board member would also be a good way.

I hope in the near future Club 1872 can get back to its core focus with the full support of the Rangers family.
 
Does it come as a surprise that an organisation that exists to raise funds to build up a shareholding in Rangers makes deals to spend money buying shares in Rangers?

What would be the purpose of consulting with members on every share purchase? Are members confused about what they were signing up to - did they mistake it for a motorbike enthusiasts club for instance?

Is the real reason that you have an issue with who the shares are coming from, even though there is nowhere else offering that amount of shares on the market, and certainly not at that price?

And if the issue is that it diverts money away from the club, you have Dave King on record explaining that it won't because his agreement with Club 1872 is being pushed back due to the new share issue.
It was designed to put money into the club while giving fans a voice.

I love Dave King.
It doesn't make club 1872 money his.
I love my mother.
I wouldn't be transfering her our money either.

The club have just agreed a 6 million plus round of investment.
Much more than 1872 has in the bank.
The amount of money it will take from the club.
Costs associated with everything from marketing through to the purchase is maybe 5-10x what 1872 has in the bank.
I've already said, £100,000 to the club for shares, fine. Up to £500,000? Probably fine.
It's not my job to draw clear lines for club 1872, oh wait, it's up to a board who haven't done so.

With the membership they have, money coming in and levels of money in the bank, they are not even in a position to stretch money they don't have, loan, beg and borrow, on our behalf. Even if it was money going into a direct club share issue.

It should have been took to the members.

As for the Castors catastrophe.
Imagine it had been sports direct?
Mike Ashley would have took great delight in wrapping us up in a multi million pound law suit potentially bankrupting the organisation.

But that's what they are there for. Right?
That's why they were voted in?
That's why they can't be removed?
That's why they can choose to veto proposed directors without clear proof as to why?
That's why people are trying to block a GM, where members can decide to back them or ask them to resign?
 
Following Legal Advice, I am now asking Members of Club 1872 to add their names to call for a GM Meeting of Club 1872 with the sole purpose of having a vote of no confidence in the current board
Can you PM me your name and Club 1872 number and whether you are a life member or contributing member
If you have recently stopped contributing to Club 1872 can you PM your name and number and the reason you have left
Done and good luck Bro
 
I think the best chance maybe the only chance club 1872 has to work is to be run by non rangers fans. Proper professionals with no other motivation such as blazer chasing or in it for self interest . How many times have these fans groups ended up the same way as club 1872 is currently . Get neutrals in and pay them salaries. Sure it might cost more money but if it operates properly it’s worth it
It should be a short term gig.
Whether that is 2 or 3 years.

Being involved in successive terms should be off the table, although I see no harm in allowing people to have a second term after a period.

The idea of club1872 is to represent the fans.
Not for placemen or women to cosy up to, or back, or even attack certain board members based on an agenda and salary.
 
@Robert Marshall @mdingwall Can I just say gents, dont fall into the trap of petty squabbles. The governance issues are the main concern and I believe the driving force behind this attempt at a GM, @MacaroniPie has just got both of you muddying the waters with tit for tat over share issues, which is the end game, is very important but makes it difficult for people to stay focused on the facts that have been presented with regards to the board and associates of Club1872 within the thread.
If it looks like a petty squabble then that's likely because it is a petty squabble. It's not my fault if the ringleaders can't explain the purpose without tying themselves in knots or making incorrect assumptions about my identity.
 
Could I encourage anyone who wants to tell us that fan ownership will never will work, to start a thread on it.

The purpose of this thread is gather support for a GM in Club1872 who hold the thick end of £4 million worth of shares and cash on behalf of the members
Fan ownership is not the objective Bro!Fan involvement is the goal
 
If it looks like a petty squabble then that's likely because it is a petty squabble. It's not my fault if the ringleaders can't explain the purpose without tying themselves in knots or making incorrect assumptions about my identity.

They did explain it to my and many other satisfaction. Do you think having a board who are unanswerable to the fans who invest, have went behind the clubs back jeopardising retail deal/relations and who have moved the goalposts should not be challenged in anyway? There for me is no argument not to have a GM, what happens after that is for the members to decide. Why are you so against it?
 
If it looks like a petty squabble then that's likely because it is a petty squabble. It's not my fault if the ringleaders can't explain the purpose without tying themselves in knots or making incorrect assumptions about my identity.
I think the purpose is 100% clear. You may not agree with it however

for the avoidance of doubt, are you part of, or have any ties to anyone working in or around c1872?
 
It’s really sad to see constant cycles of prominent fans with agendas trying to undermine other prominent fans with agendas at the expense of Club 1872 as a positive vehicle for us collectively investing in and protecting the club.

A general meeting might be a good way to hear both sides of the story here.

The more people involved in Club 1872, the more we can make it what it should be regardless of who is on the board. As a fan base, we really need to see past all this crap and get behind it as a program.
You’ve captured the Key Point. There WERE more people on the Board, 7 in fact, before the current 3 reduced it to 3.
 
So, to be clear from @CupidStunt post earlier, Chris Graham was receiving £60k pa from Rangers, sanctioned by Dave King and was happening for 5 years? What was he getting paid for?

And it stopped once the current board found out, how did they not already know? Would somebody like Andrew Dickson not be privy to that information.

Did King see C1872 as the only vehicle to get his money back and paid Graham to work 'in the shadows' to facilitate it?
Ex-C1872 board member Iain Mulholland revealed in his resignation letter that Chris Graham was being paid by the club for "several days a week assistance to Club 1872". The letter was printed in full on here. It's been common knowledge for years.

Here's a link to Iain's resignation statement from 2018.

 
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