YoungGer97
Well-Known Member
Completely agree with this too. I still think it’s a pretty empty gesture but I think it’s connection to BLM is absolutely minuscule now, particularly in football, and in this continent more widely.
Taking the knee
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Completely agree with this too. I still think it’s a pretty empty gesture but I think it’s connection to BLM is absolutely minuscule now, particularly in football, and in this continent more widely.
New York Bear
Well-Known Member
I don't even understand the apparent connection in the first place. Maybe there is a UK slant to this I'm missing - I thought it started with Colin Kaepernick and spread from there.
SenoraCuellar
Well-Known Member
Except the players have explained why they are doing it. Nothing to do with BLM. Same as the England players issued a statement before the Euros but for some reason an element of support can’t seem to take the words in and instead project their own reasoning of it on to the situation.
It's not just six seconds and then it will go away. It's part of a culture and ideology on mission creep, not a one-off like silence for a Pope or High profile figure. We will come back to this again and again and more and more. It seems the knee is going to be permanent now..not one season.
Those saying there's no debate to be had/it's just six seconds aren't being intellectually honest because they know it would create more pushback.
The only thing that unites Rangers fans is Rangers and love of our country..social justice, race, gender, trans rights is just a minefield in terms of unity etc
Those saying there's no debate to be had/it's just six seconds aren't being intellectually honest because they know it would create more pushback.
The only thing that unites Rangers fans is Rangers and love of our country..social justice, race, gender, trans rights is just a minefield in terms of unity etc
The same who want to sing the old 'add ons' and bring back the original 'Billy Boys'.
Oh, and who sing the excruciating Tiffany/Roman Catholics dirge.
*Sighs*
SenoraCuellar
Well-Known Member
How on earth can you say social justice and racial equality is a minefield? You are either against racism or your not. There’s no minefield. It really is that simple.
1BrianLaudrup
Well-Known Member
Originally, I was dead against it, precisely because it was a direct response to BLM protests, came at the same time as the Premier League or whoever had English teams had wearing the BLM badge on their jerseys (which was soon abandoned to little backlash). The general tone then was that the gesture was being done in support of BLM. That was dead wrong, and the mistake was that there was a degree of ignorance in Britain about what BLM represents ie it's not just a campaign group fighting racism, it's a political movement with an agenda that shouldn't be receiving endorsement from English football authorities. People wanted to show support, but they assumed that the blindingly obvious righteousness of the slogan black lives matter meant that the BLM organisation's goals are similarly neutral and uncontroversial. Which they simply aren't.
That was then. But really, as time has gone on, I think the knee has gradually been divorced from the BLM organisation, I really do. I think the authorities and clubs have probably done a fair bit of work to minimise the link. Successfully I think. It's not like players are coming out doing interviews talking up BLM all the time or making comments that advance the BLM agenda. We're not seeing the kind of insane politicisation of British football that happens in American media and sports, with the dishonourable exception of the SNP and Scottish media's freakout over George Square, that is.
99% of the time the message from players is more along the lines of "we're doing this because in 2021 Glen Kamara shouldn't be getting called disgusting names by a fellow pro and he and Kemar Roofe shouldn't be getting racist messages on Instagram." And I think that's what fans are associating it with, so that's what the gesture is becoming. And if that's what it is, I've no issue with it and there's no way in hell I'm entertaining the idea that our fans booing the kneeling is anything but an abomination and a massive own goal.
At this stage I think the repetition has diluted the gesture to the point that it's not even useful to BLM, even if that's where it originated in the UK. Even BLM UK have complained that they don't think the kneeling is meaningful anymore, which is a clear sign they feel like taking the knee is no longer advancing their agenda.
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tomvallance1983
Well-Known Member
It’s not North Korea to ban people who want to drag the name of our club through the mud. During the Kamara incident we had tims bombarding the comment section about how we were hypocrites for being angry at Kudela. Anyone who boos is playing into that narrative.
Defoe, Kamara, we have absolute gentleman playing for our club. They have probably experienced a lot of racial abuse which still troubles them to this day, so for them to partake in a gesture making a stance against it which means a lot to them, then hear booing from the stands. After helping stop the ten and win 55. No one who does this deserves a place in Ibrox
AllyDawson72
Active Member
At this juncture they are just bigots/racists as they are deliberately ignoring the players explaining this.
Its been crystal clear from day 1 that multi millionaires where not taking the knee in support of a Marxist/ Anarchist organisation. When Goldson had to argue with some of our fans on SM trying to explain this, that was the line in the sand.
Anyone still trying to correlate our players taking the knee with the BLM movement is doing it deliberately now to suit their own agenda. How many times do the players need to explain this ?
Connor Goldson : "Its not political just a simple anti racism gesture"
Wee Barry fae Possil: "Aye its pure Marxism I've read hunners of memes on Facebook and they pure pulled statues down"
No offense to anyone from Possil but you get the jist.
I think the first couple of home games are going to be very rough and I genuinely couldn't care less if folk lose their ST over this. Obviously their own sense of self importance overrides the club. Good riddance. We have all seen this movie before with TBB and FTP.
Away games will be a different kettle of fish though and that's where the SFA and UEFA will be all over us.
I honestly wouldn't blame the players if they just walked off the park and forfeited the first game to nip this in the bud. After the Kamara incident I wouldn't underestimate how passionate our manager and players are about this.
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
Hopefully you don't have a ticket for Saturday.
SoGo
Well-Known Member
It would seem that some of our fans just do not understand PR.
They boo, and we will be painted as neanderthals in the press and social media.
They don't boo, then nothing will be said.
They hold up a banner saying "We take the knee as a group to support our players display against Racism" (or words to that effect). And it could be spread worldwide and we are seen as a progressive all-encompassing club.
And do you know what? What we all really think matters not a jot.
They boo, and we will be painted as neanderthals in the press and social media.
They don't boo, then nothing will be said.
They hold up a banner saying "We take the knee as a group to support our players display against Racism" (or words to that effect). And it could be spread worldwide and we are seen as a progressive all-encompassing club.
And do you know what? What we all really think matters not a jot.
ThorntonMM
Well-Known Member
Any Rangers fan that chooses to boo the players taking the knee against racism especially after they have won us the title deserve to be ejected from the stadium.
It saddens me we have some absolute cocksockets in our support.
Sit quiet for 5 seconds. How difficult is that?
It saddens me we have some absolute cocksockets in our support.
Sit quiet for 5 seconds. How difficult is that?
Super_Rangers72
Well-Known Member
Booing just causes trouble for Rangers so don’t think anyone should do that.
But it’s it a bit in the same way if I was a player I would do it to avoid trouble even although I think it’s a lot of cr4p and don’t agree with it.
Sadly that’s today’s society, justifiably question anything that goes on and youre branded this of that. No doubt someone along to call me a racist shortly.
But it’s it a bit in the same way if I was a player I would do it to avoid trouble even although I think it’s a lot of cr4p and don’t agree with it.
Sadly that’s today’s society, justifiably question anything that goes on and youre branded this of that. No doubt someone along to call me a racist shortly.
Alan Johnson
Well-Known Member
I'd like to think that when it's kick off time the lucky 23k inside Ibrox will be belting out championees and any clown booing will be totally irrelevant.
AllyDawson72
Active Member
BrilliantSome of the takes and mental gymnastics in this thread remind me of this, just change Millwall to Rangers
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
That is tremendousSome of the takes and mental gymnastics in this thread remind me of this, just change Millwall to Rangers
MrStruth
Well-Known Member
So too will every Rangers hating scrote desperate to hear any form of booing and of course we will have absolute brain dead cretins that will be only too happy to give them what they WANT.
KPRangers
Well-Known Member
A grown up debate on this issue can be had without people crying you’re a racist or you’re a Marxist, both are opposite sides of the same childish coin.
Some things I believe are beyond any debate though.
Our support has never had a racism problem, none of the other anti racism campaigns have had anything other than complete backing from us.
Gestures can mean different things to different people, the players quite obviously don’t want to usher in Marxism and do have the best intentions in using it in as an anti racism symbol however the gesture to 100s of millions around the world is offensive and intrinsically linked to BLM.
From what I can make out the majority opinion seems to be in the middle. Don’t really like it but don’t feel comfortable appearing to boo Rangers players and possibly hurting them.
If you find yourself to far on the extreme ends to either side of this, I suggest you need to calm down and reflect on yourself because this isn’t a forum full of black power communists and racist fascists.
Some things I believe are beyond any debate though.
Our support has never had a racism problem, none of the other anti racism campaigns have had anything other than complete backing from us.
Gestures can mean different things to different people, the players quite obviously don’t want to usher in Marxism and do have the best intentions in using it in as an anti racism symbol however the gesture to 100s of millions around the world is offensive and intrinsically linked to BLM.
From what I can make out the majority opinion seems to be in the middle. Don’t really like it but don’t feel comfortable appearing to boo Rangers players and possibly hurting them.
If you find yourself to far on the extreme ends to either side of this, I suggest you need to calm down and reflect on yourself because this isn’t a forum full of black power communists and racist fascists.
The Pontiac Bandit
Well-Known Member
Again the players, our players have explained over and over the reason why they are doing it and it isn't in support of BLM.
There is no grey area. If you boo the gesture you are booing our players protesting against racism.
Thornliebank_Bear
Well-Known Member
Honestly, with all the bias and dishonesty in refereeing i wouldnt totally rule it out !
KPRangers
Well-Known Member
To be honest I don’t think the thoughts and opinions of people who would criticise Rangers if we cured cancer should really be given much credence.
AllyDawson72
Active Member
Nonsense.
Everyone I know in real life knows it has nothing to do with BLM the movement. Every single one.
When you go online thats when you see these mental Marxist arguments.
Why would any grown up rational person be uncomfortable with black players taking the knee to highlight racism ? Given what happens to them on SM on a weekly basis and after Kamara.
Where are you getting this 'majority' opinion that most folk are 'uncomfortable' with it ? Even on this thread its about 90% in favour of it.
We need to lose this ambiguity around this. Its crystal clear now and has been explained a billion times. This only gives people something to cling on to.
For all those wanting SRTRC back, well how effective was that then ? We could all hold up a red card and pretend everything is ok. I like the knee. Its triggering the right kind of people and opened the debate up.
Our club and players have been affected by racism more than most from Walters through to Roofe and Kamara. To think that it will be us, and us alone, left booing it in Scotland makes me feel sick to my stomach.
legalbeagle
Well-Known Member
It’s been a long time of this recurring argument. I’m not going to partake in it all again, it is pointless, but would ask anyone present at the games to please not boo our players.
fmp
Well-Known Member
Not really. Check out its history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_knee
Anyway, booing people who take the knee is inextricably linked with racism. See what I did there?
Araghaidal
Member
I didn't realise that Palestine was the enemy of Rangers. I'll need to try and keep up.
silverbear
Well-Known Member
Keep seeing posts that refer to taking the knee as support for the BLM political organisation and that they came up with it. However my understanding is it was American footballer Colin Kaepernick that “first” did it, prior to any association to the political BLM.
I appreciate the the political BLM may have now claimed that gesture as their own but, it clearly isn’t just theirs.
To put that in context many of us will remember how in the 70’s & 80’s the union flag became a symbol for the national front. It got to the stage that there were major efforts needed to reclaim that flag as a symbol of national pride and not the racism associated with the national front. In making such efforts I certainly don’t recall anyone booing the union flag (I lived in England at the time).
Had anyone booed the flag it would have been taken as booing our national flag, not some dodgy political organisation that was attempting to claim it as their own.
It’s the same with taking the knee, you may think you’re booing the political BLM aspect but, no one else will. They’ll just see you as being racist.
I appreciate the the political BLM may have now claimed that gesture as their own but, it clearly isn’t just theirs.
To put that in context many of us will remember how in the 70’s & 80’s the union flag became a symbol for the national front. It got to the stage that there were major efforts needed to reclaim that flag as a symbol of national pride and not the racism associated with the national front. In making such efforts I certainly don’t recall anyone booing the union flag (I lived in England at the time).
Had anyone booed the flag it would have been taken as booing our national flag, not some dodgy political organisation that was attempting to claim it as their own.
It’s the same with taking the knee, you may think you’re booing the political BLM aspect but, no one else will. They’ll just see you as being racist.
final_straws
Well-Known Member
[/QUOTE]
The vast majority online can't even define Marxism nor explain in detail or coherently why they hold their view. Full of people just repeating the same empty statements they have read from someone else
The vast majority online can't even define Marxism nor explain in detail or coherently why they hold their view. Full of people just repeating the same empty statements they have read from someone else
Burnbrae
Active Member
Nice bit of blacksplaining there. The players have confirmed why they do it on countless occasions. Do you not believe them?
Noddy
Well-Known Member
Racist.
NeilFifeLoyal
Well-Known Member
Agreed the “solidarity with plasticine” is embarrassing.
Gheorghe_Hagi
Well-Known Member
Call it authoritarian if you want, but Rangers are a private business and just like any other private business are entitled to deprive their services to anyone they want. Just like I couldn't go into a café or a cinema and continually act like a f*cking gimp and get away with it, the same goes for Rangers. It's not just sensible that Rangers identify the people booing and run them out of the club, it's imperative that they do before they drag the club's name into the dirt anymore than they already do.
spirit_of_93
Well-Known Member
Comments on this full of timmy and assorted SNP loving Rangers haters desperate for us to boo, absolutely desperate for it. Can’t get near is on the park so the focus will as ever be on damaging us to maximum effect off it.
Ram being champions down their throats instead of gifting them what they crave. As Bartley says, not only will you gift them what they crave all our players willl think is that you, and by extension our support more generally in comparison to other supports, is racist.
I completely get the point that people don’t want to support the BLM organisation and they don’t have to.
However, we have had our own players come out and repeatedly say it’s nothing to do with that. There’s clearly a difference between BLM the organisation and the general Black Lives Matter message. For as long as our players think it’s necessary then that should really be enough for people and I think anyone who disagrees is at it really. Who are we to tell Tav not to take the knee?!
However, we have had our own players come out and repeatedly say it’s nothing to do with that. There’s clearly a difference between BLM the organisation and the general Black Lives Matter message. For as long as our players think it’s necessary then that should really be enough for people and I think anyone who disagrees is at it really. Who are we to tell Tav not to take the knee?!
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KPRangers
Well-Known Member
And on the contrary the vast majority of people that I know in real life and attend the games with on my bus, in the Rangers chats I’m in associate it with BLM, it’s a subject that rightly or wrongly does have a divide with a lot of people on either side.
There’s a big difference mate between 90% against booing the players and 90% in favour of taking the knee. Our own team weren’t in favour of doing it last season after Goldson himself described it as an “token gesture” I’m sure he called it.
You say what did SRTRC achieve, it began in 1996, at that time monkey noises could be heard from crowds and wasn’t too long before that bananas would be thrown at black players, to suggest that organisation achieved nothing is poor imo. They done a lot of great work.
When you say there’s no ambiguity and it’s triggering the right kind of people, you do know that many black people are against the knee? Black English footballer Lyle Taylor for example has risked the backlash by openly stating so. Not one black player ever stops against SRTRC or kick it out because there genuinely was no ambiguity there.
If you say you are sick to your stomach because you feel Rangers fans who have never had a racism issue and have unanimously backed several other anti racism campaigns are now in 2021 deciding to be Zenit, then I suggest you need to take a step back and calm down.
Both sides have merit to their positions and it’s not an argument between racists and good guys. Painting it as such only further entrenches people when we all agree on far more than we disagree on.
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Wish someone would take my left knee its fucked.
Ps won't be booing our players.
Ps won't be booing our players.
giogaddi
Well-Known Member
The clinically brain-dead element of our support cause us way more damage than any of them ever could. They actually seem to enjoy the notoriety. I wish they'd fcuk off and support Millwall already.
Delboy Trotter
Well-Known Member
Regardless if we all agree or disagree on it, surely to feck we can all remain quiet for 10 seconds and not embarrass the club and make our players feel like shit?
surely?
surely?
Marty101
Well-Known Member
Actually I think it’s those trying to justify the booing that are conflating those two distinct things.
Our players (and the rest of us) are in fact perfectly able to separate them out, and have done so and explained the reason why they are taking the knee over and over again.
The players aren’t trying to destroy current society, they aren’t proposing seizing the means of production, and they aren’t encouraging people to rush from Ibrox after the game to start pulling down statues.
They are making a heartfelt protest about the racism they or their colleagues have faced during their lives.
One of them was racially abused by an opposing on the pitch at Ibrox, others have been stalked and abused on social by a bunch of racist supporters of another team.
Our black players have explained at length how these sort of acts and other acts of casual racism have affected them throughout their lives. Whatever your or anyone else’s views on the associations of the gesture I think we can surely respect and trust their reasons rather than project something else on to what they are doing?
I don’t understand why Rangers fans wouldn’t want to support the players on this. I certainly don’t understand why folk feel the need or justification to boo it.
If you’re genuinely upset about the gesture because you fear the overthrow of society go express your preference for the existing capitalist system by buying a coffee at the start of the game or something so you miss it.
Don’t boo our own players when they are making a peaceful protest about something which has affected them personally though.
Even just from the point of view of common decency.
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Sir Sasa Papac
Well-Known Member
You didn’t answer my question last night you just ran away and accused another random person of being a racist from your house in America.
Whats wrong with our own anti racist campaigns? Kick it out? Show racism the red card? Stand up to racism? All worthy campaigns with 100% support.
Nobody ever booed them. Nobody ever rejected them, nobody ever rejected the message.
And now you want to lecture that everyone is suddenly racist? Lol so why were there mo boos on literally any other anti racist campaign?
Connor Goldson called it a pointless gesture a few months ago, nobody called him a racist, in fact the whole of Scottish football agreed and ditched the knee in favour of standing, what changed?
AllyDawson72
Active Member
This is all anyone needs to watch. This kills the debate stone dead.
It should be a sticky along with Baloguns interview and pinned to the top of the page.
Sir Sasa Papac
Well-Known Member
That’s what I thought, you’ve got no argument
AllyDawson72
Active Member
But why are they uncomfortable with it? Are they not aware of the players completely dissassociating it with the BLM movement? Or are people deliberately choosing to ignore it?
Look at Bartleys interview above. There is no ambigueity now. None whatsoever. There is absolutely no other reason to boo it now unless you have an agenda or you are racist.
AllyDawson72
Active Member
Because its exposing racists who could comfortably hide behind yet another empty gesture like holding up a red card saying 'Show racism the red card'. Which clearly didnt work.
The only people crying about this are white people. Yes some black players have called it an empty gesture on the back of racism getting worse. This isnt something any players is forced to do either. Another myth btw. It's their personal choice. Some stand, some kneel. But to be so triggered that you need to boo?? Something very wrong there.
Noddy
Well-Known Member
Bit of a whoosh moment for you.
Sir Sasa Papac
Well-Known Member
A few posts back you accuse rangers fans of being “clinically brain dead” and accuse them of being “millwall fans” for booing. Quite clear to me especially with the millwall reference what you mean and think but if you don’t own it that’s on you
Now that that’s out of the way please address Scotland’s of decades of unwavering anti racist campaigns compared to the apparent emergence of racists which in no way involves the gesture.
Noddy
Well-Known Member
Bit of a contradiction there, old chap.
AllyDawson72
Active Member
We had a stand shut down by UEFA for racism as well. Incorrectly imo but what do you think UEFA will do if this carries on? Where you at the RM game btw? You could hear it very clearly. I just hope the other bears like me that were embarassed will now turn on them.
If you are still booing despite the players explaining why they are doing it for god knows how many times.. you are a racist. What other reason would you be booing an anti racist gesture?
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