Taking the knee

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Good, you've contributed nothing.

Good to know we're all a bunch of sensetive souls though. It'll be interesting how the next old firm game goes without celtic players getting any abuse.
Going by last years old firm games where they didn't get any abuse, the game will go pretty fucking well I'd say.
 
Believe me mate, I've read on here people who have classed people trying to get social housing described as vermin, considering I'm on the list myself, it was more than insulting.

You see the other digs at people who come from possil or other deprived areas treated this way on here. That should never be the Rangers way.
Exactly, the poster Ferguson something backtracked massively when I called him out on what he meant by the types who boo will also do red hand salutes.

We all know the implication. Disgusting way to talk about fellow fans. He was probably slagging everyone at George sq too
 
Good, you've contributed nothing.

Good to know we're all a bunch of sensetive souls though. It'll be interesting how the next old firm game goes without celtic players getting any abuse.

If you’re 33 then I worry for you pal, maybe that number has another meaning for you. But I actually answered your question, the club will decide. You’re making an utter fool of yourself here.
 
Away back and greet over England. And where is the word “racist” even used in the quoted post?
I dont remember greeting over england. Can you post anything from me about supporting england and greeting about them losing it.

I will admit that I was getting pissed off with you and your other jacobite mates spouting your anti English racism.
 
When I said this?

"No issue with it remaining indefinitely personally, because it is a process the players see as part of a need for systemic change - systemic change occurs when change reaches all or most parts of a system"

Yes I specifically made mention of all or most part because I am fully aware you are never going to change how all view equality, some people are so ignorant to it they will never change, those are the type of people I have no respect for - I did state DON'T

And I did use quotation because I have read people on this thread say "I respect those who boo" and have zero respect for those kinds of people.

Capiche.
Not capiche, I've never mentioned that so quoting it in a reply to me is incorrect and quite frankly, stupid.

Here's a correct use of quotes for you.

"Systematic change occurs when change reaches all or most part of a system"

Also you... (Paraphrasing) "I didn't mention systematic"

Must try harder....
 
Exactly, the poster Ferguson something backtracked massively when I called him out on what he meant by the types who boo will also do red hand salutes.

We all know the implication. Disgusting way to talk about fellow fans. He was probably slagging everyone at George sq too
Supporting the same team as someone doesn't excuse you from being an utter tool.

Using that argument is no different to 'as long as Griffiths scores goals we'll let him aff wi being a paedo cause he's a fellow fan'.
 
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Going by last years old firm games where they didn't get any abuse, the game will go pretty fucking well I'd say.
Yup, it will be interesting. Last game I and we all were at there was constant abuse at their team. Do you think everyone slating those who disagree with taking the knee will be on message not to abuse celtic players? Will be interesting.
 
Not capiche, I've never mentioned that so quoting it in a reply to me is incorrect and quite frankly, stupid.

Here's a correct use of quotes for you.

"Systematic change occurs when change reaches all or most part of a system"

Also you... (Paraphrasing) "I didn't mention systematic"

Must try harder....

You asked a question, I gave you an answer.

I doubt I will ever reach the try hard levels you have to be fair.
 
Brilliant will do.

The hilarious thing about this is you have no idea how telling the last paragraph is on your mindset. Enablers like you are the reason we look at history books and wonder why ordinary people allowed stuff to happen.

Have you any idea how ridiculous your last paragraph sounds?

Putting that to one side though, you asked about how you express your displeasure about the players taking the knee at the start of games without booing.

Seriously - why not write to the club about it setting out your concerns?
 
Zaha was one of the first prominent footballers to come out against the knee. I also choose not to reference our own players because there's an emotional attachment to them which can influence logic.

I think any gesture which receives the publicity the taking the knee stuff has will have the same impact. Since the football started back in the EPL last season (when ours was decided with a dodgy vote), change every mention of BLM with SRTRC, in stadiums, on jerseys, on SSN, on question time, on debate shows, on phone ins... The impact would be identical. So the success of the campaign isn't linked to the knee, so why keep it when it's clearly divisive and counter productive?

It's only "divisive and counter productive" to a minority. The rest of us support it or are simply neutral - and ultimately fine with our players making the gesture.

Zaha is not an arbitrar in this situation. He's offering an opinion. I prefer to listen to our players because of the emotional attachment.

As I've said, though, it's created discussion.

Take yourself, for example, 'a casual observer of FF for years'. The appointment of Gerrard wasn't enough to get you to comment. Our European runs failed to arouse a post. Clinching 55 wasn't worthy of a remark.

But here you are...
 
Yup, it will be interesting. Last game I and we all were at there was constant abuse at their team. Do you think everyone slating those who disagree with taking the knee will be on message not to abuse celtic players? Will be interesting.
You're making a terrible correlation here that doesn't help your case one iota.

Booing celtic is not the same as booing an anti-racism gesture.
 
Supporting the same team as someone doesn't excuse you from being an utter tool.

Using that argument is no different to 'as long as Griffiths scores goals we'll let him aff wi being a paedo cause he's a fellow fan'.
Or conversely blind support no matter what the players are doing is fine because we should support them regardless? That seems to be the attitude on here.

"Omg are you saying the players kneeing is like Griffiths being a nonce!!??"

Let's save 40 replies by assuming you understand analogies and if not, look into what they are.
 
I did read what you said.

Your perception of the "wider world" is widely of the mark in all honesty, if there was any kind of truth in what you are saying global brands like Arsenal, Man City, Man United, Chelsea who pander to industries all over the world for sponsorship would have discouraged their players from doing it months ago if it caused such brand damage.

You are writing a narrative and attaching it to this situation you feel is true rather than is true.

I reckon Rangers will be doing alrite short, medium and long term if our players take part.
So I'm doing exactly what you are?
Holding an opinion and believing in it.

But somehow yours is valid and mine is wrong?

Only many on here are blaming our fans. (You included)
Many are blaming our players.
And I am advocating a middle ground where everyone involved in our club does the right thing and comes together, yet I'm wrong? Go figure.
Never has the saying it's never black and white, been so apt. Even if for you it needs to be.
 
Or conversely blind support no matter what the players are doing is fine because we should support them regardless? That seems to be the attitude on here.

"Omg are you saying the players kneeing is like Griffiths being a nonce!!??"

Let's save 40 replies by assuming you understand analogies and if not, look into what they are.
Really not doing yourself any favours here... that is reaching God Almighty levels of fcking stupidity.
 

I do not like the concept of taking the knee because to me it is very much caught up in a political movement I fundamentally object to.

I will not boo our players for taking the knee because they have explained that to them it is about highlighting racism and not about support for a political movement.

I really do not find this difficult.
I have difficulty with this one.
I do not doubt the sincerity of the players but the gesture still has, at least, connotations.
(Connotations meaning something that is not directly connected by does get connected to suit an argument.)
Connotations being what other players and our supporters have been castigated for.
Gascoigne’s flute playing.
The fans’ red hand salute or even some songs we sing.
 
Have you any idea how ridiculous your last paragraph sounds?

Putting that to one side though, you asked about how you express your displeasure about the players taking the knee at the start of games without booing.

Seriously - why not write to the club about it setting out your concerns?
Honest answer? It would be a pointless endeavour.

How do you know those booing haven't tried that already and received no response?

Youre implication is people should be punished for their opinions, so the last paragraph is someone relevant when discussing history.
 
So you did or didn't mention systematic change?

I forget which one you're going with currently

I clearly did, and have done since again in the post when you asked the first time I had mentioned it, this is in type mate you literally only have to scroll back and forward to see what people have said bud, it's not that challenging.

I get it though you are "new" here.
 
Or conversely blind support no matter what the players are doing is fine because we should support them regardless? That seems to be the attitude on here.

"Omg are you saying the players kneeing is like Griffiths being a nonce!!??"

Let's save 40 replies by assuming you understand analogies and if not, look into what they are.
When he made a false equivalence about noncery, and still I did not speak out.
 
I dont remember greeting over england. Can you post anything from me about supporting england and greeting about them losing it.

I will admit that I was getting pissed off with you and your other jacobite mates spouting your anti English racism.
Denies it then proves it in the same post and even uses the term “English racism”. Phenomenal.

A master of contradiction. I mean I’m laughing but truthfully it’s quite tragic.
 
Or conversely blind support no matter what the players are doing is fine because we should support them regardless? That seems to be the attitude on here.

"Omg are you saying the players kneeing is like Griffiths being a nonce!!??"

Let's save 40 replies by assuming you understand analogies and if not, look into what they are.
What is your issue with our players and club being against racism?
 
So I'm doing exactly what you are?
Holding an opinion and believing in it.

But somehow yours is valid and mine is wrong?

Only many on here are blaming our fans. (You included)
Many are blaming our players.
And I am advocating a middle ground where everyone involved in our club does the right thing and comes together, yet I'm wrong? Go figure.
Never has the saying it's never black and white, been so apt. Even if for you it needs to be.

Sure, everyone has an opinion, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, some people just often hold a bit too much weight in the validity, credibility or truth of their opinion.

I don't really have a "blame" culture re this particular conversation, I prefer to think of it is as a sliding scale of care re how I perceive some of our fans, I simply don't care much for those who feel the need to boo our players during this particular act.
 
It's only "divisive and counter productive" to a minority. The rest of us support it or are simply neutral - and ultimately fine with our players making the gesture.

Zaha is not an arbitrar in this situation. He's offering an opinion. I prefer to listen to our players because of the emotional attachment.

As I've said, though, it's created discussion.

Take yourself, for example, 'a casual observer of FF for years'. The appointment of Gerrard wasn't enough to get you to comment. Our European runs failed to arouse a post. Clinching 55 wasn't worthy of a remark.

But here you are...
Frankly I don't often have time to be on FF for long. This week being an exception. Life, work, family etc, takes precedence. No judgements though.

No zaha is not an arbiter but I'd wager the implications made towards myself and others are not aimed towards him. Those making the implications would have to answer why that is.

Yes it's a minority, but it's a sizeable enough minority to dominate headlines and prompt threads like this. Therefore it must be taken into account.
 
You're making a terrible correlation here that doesn't help your case one iota.

Booing celtic is not the same as booing an anti-racism gesture.
Isn't it? You think some of the stuff we shout at their players won't affect them psychologically? What about some of the younger players they will likely have playing? If we destroy them and give them constant abuse it could destroy them psychologically. I'm just curious if those saying it's atrocious we should ask the players to use a different not divisive gesture are so considerate in other circumstances.
 
I have difficulty with this one.
I do not doubt the sincerity of the players but the gesture still has, at least, connotations.
(Connotations meaning something that is not directly connected by does get connected to suit an argument.)
Connotations being what other players and our supporters have been castigated for.
Gascoigne’s flute playing.
The fans’ red hand salute or even some songs we sing.
Those things are not castigated because they have a connotation that is outwith the known intent of those displaying them.

When Gazza played the flute it was a deliberate wind-up based upon those connotations, when folk do red hand salutes or sing those songs they are castigated based on the actual intent of them doing it, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

These players are being booed based on connotations which are distinct from their intent and that they've clarified themselves.
 
I have difficulty with this one.
I do not doubt the sincerity of the players but the gesture still has, at least, connotations.
(Connotations meaning something that is not directly connected by does get connected to suit an argument.)
Connotations being what other players and our supporters have been castigated for.
Gascoigne’s flute playing.
The fans’ red hand salute or even some songs we sing.

In those sort of instances you note, then I think 'we' should have been firmer in explaining the valid cultural references involved. Instead, 'we' allowed people eager to 'other' and, without being dramatic, dehumanise us to tell and convince the world and many of our own number that we were racists and bigots.

Regarding the matter at hand, our players have told us what it means to them and that it is clearly not political. Just as we should have made clear that our usage of a word referring to those supporting sectarian terror for political ends was not religious in connotation.
 
Thats because its fairly obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, so im not going to sit and explain to those among us less gifted in that department how the club being publicly crucified and the support painted as racist neanderthals is a worse PR disaster than a handful of selfish knobs in the crowd getting angry at the players for political reasons is.
See that’s the type of attitude that pisses people off.
Callling people knobs, brain dead and without a functioning brain and why ? Because the don’t agree with the gesture of taking the knee.
I’m sorry, but that’s behaviour of a fascist.
You will do this , you will do that , you are not as good as me because you believe something else.
I will not boo the team when taking the knee . But I won’t criticise those who do.
I’ve also said I won’t sing No pope of Rome or any other song with anti - Catholic lyrics.
But I won’t criticise those who do.
If we are going to be consistent as Rangers supporters we need to call out all forms of hate.
 
I clearly did, and have done since again in the post when you asked the first time I had mentioned it, this is in type mate you literally only have to scroll back and forward to see what people have said bud, it's not that challenging.

I get it though you are "new" here.
My post - "Do you think anyone would boo if they stood for justice and it was announced?

No idea why you've highlighted those points. Are you implying the UK is systematically racist? I'd love you to show me some of this.


Your reply - "Not sure TBH, don't really care either. I find those who threaten to boo, actually boo or "respect those who boo" an Equality movement sadly hilarious, I would expect booing it will simply see those who partake in it all the more determined to keep doing it, rather than consciously go out their way to change it, given it highlights WHY they do it.

Who said anything even remotely like that? The players have made mention of this being an equality movement"


Agreed mate, it's quite simple to scroll back
 
Sure, everyone has an opinion, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, some people just often hold a bit too much weight in the validity, credibility or truth of their opinion.

I don't really have a "blame" culture re this particular conversation, I prefer to think of it is as a sliding scale of care re how I perceive some of our fans, I simply don't care much for those who feel the need to boo our players during this particular act.
I don't have much time for anyone who insults our players past or present, sure, there are a few ex-players I'd rather not say anything about, because I have nothing positive to say, but calling anyone from Halliday, Barry Ferguson, even Derek McInnes, a rat, scum, arsehole doesn't sit right for me.

I find it ironic that anyone would reply double figures on this thread and then talk about too much weight in ones own opinion.
 
My post - "Do you think anyone would boo if they stood for justice and it was announced?

No idea why you've highlighted those points. Are you implying the UK is systematically racist? I'd love you to show me some of this.


Your reply - "Not sure TBH, don't really care either. I find those who threaten to boo, actually boo or "respect those who boo" an Equality movement sadly hilarious, I would expect booing it will simply see those who partake in it all the more determined to keep doing it, rather than consciously go out their way to change it, given it highlights WHY they do it.

Who said anything even remotely like that? The players have made mention of this being an equality movement"


Agreed mate, it's quite simple to scroll back

I don't really know why you have quoted that or where you are going with this TBH. I thought that exact reply at the time and still think it now, what is your point here bud.
 
Isn't it? You think some of the stuff we shout at their players won't affect them psychologically? What about some of the younger players they will likely have playing? If we destroy them and give them constant abuse it could destroy them psychologically. I'm just curious if those saying it's atrocious we should ask the players to use a different not divisive gesture are so considerate in other circumstances.
I sincerely mean it when I, as a mental health professional, say this to you: you are a crackpot mate.

Seriously go have a lie down, a can of juice and a wank and see if you can gain some perspective.
 
I doubt Zaha would go to a game and disrespect anyone doing it by booing. There in lies the difference.

A lot of mental gymnastics going on here to try and justify this nonsense all with the knowledge that it will happen on Saturday, rather than just accept these people don’t deserve to be in the stadium and don’t deserve the success these players are bringing them.
It's always Zaha these guys go to as well, it's never the countless black players who want to continue taking the knee and feel it's the right way to do it. Zaha is right to have his opinion as a black man if he feels it isn't working, but that doesn't then dismiss every other black person's view on an anti-racism gesture.
 
Denies it then proves it in the same post and even uses the term “English racism”. Phenomenal.

A master of contradiction. I mean I’m laughing but truthfully it’s quite tragic.
Your not as smart as you think you are. I never posted I was supporting england. Somehow you've changed that to contradicting myself to justify your racism.
 
I don't have much time for anyone who insults our players past or present, sure, there are a few ex-players I'd rather not say anything about, because I have nothing positive to say, but calling anyone from Halliday, Barry Ferguson, even Derek McInnes, a rat, scum, arsehole doesn't sit right for me.

I find it ironic that anyone would reply double figures on this thread and then talk about too much weight in ones own opinion.

I agree on the first point.

I back myself TBH mate, I was born this way, built into me how I was raised etc.
 
What is your issue with our players and club being against racism?
Nothing. I'd rather it was a united front.

The taking the knee will never allow that because of despicable actions of the BLM group in the past.

It's not Rangers fans fault that people blindly jumped on the BLM bandwagon before their true self was shown.

Change the gesture and this whole thing goes away.
 
A wee synopsis for those who don't want to troll through the thread:

The boo boys: It's marxist, shouldn't be doing it.

The on the fencers: I don't necessarily agree with it but I've never booed a Rangers player and I'm not going to start now.

The PC brigade: If you don't agree with my opinion, don't come back to Ibrox.

Think that about sums it up. :)
 
I don't really know why you have quoted that or where you are going with this TBH. I thought that exact reply at the time and still think it now, what is your point here bud.
You mentioned systematic change.

I asked if you were implying the UK was systematically racist.

You seemed confused at where id got that from.

I've been trying to show you where I got it from.

My opinion is the UK is one of the least racist countries in the world. The demand for racism far outstrips the supply. Thats not to say attitudes of some people don't need changing and all this should be dropped, but the last thing the campaign needs is a divisive gesture.
 
I sincerely mean it when I, as a mental health professional, say this to you: you are a crackpot mate.

Seriously go have a lie down, a can of juice and a wank and see if you can gain some perspective.
Haha no bother mate.

Btw should "mental health professionals" be putting laughing emojis against posts they are concerned about the posters wellbeing? Asking for a friend.....
 
Nothing. I'd rather it was a united front.

The taking the knee will never allow that because of despicable actions of the BLM group in the past.

It's not Rangers fans fault that people blindly jumped on the BLM bandwagon before their true self was shown.

Change the gesture and this whole thing goes away.
Given that the gesture is internationally accepted as being for equality and against racism, and our vice captain has publicly said it is not about politics, why should Rangers change it because Jimmy from Pollok got told it was a Marxist conspiracy.

Maybe those folk who can't discern the difference are the problem here, not the gesture.

Maybe the pasty folk on here - who are telling our black players how to protest in a way that is acceptable to them rather than being offensive to the white moron who doesn't take in what has been told to them repeatedly - should take a long hard look at themselves and either shut up or go elsewhere.
 
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