Mounting unrest in Rangers squad as team mates rally to clear names of Kenny Miller and Lee Wallace

TBM said:
Possibly, but i would be stunned if proper process has been carried out in the short period. As alluded to above, i would imagine this is a move from the board outwith HR process.
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I've little idea about the process. However, it's been painted as two players passionate after a defeat and that's just one part of the story. Players aren't suspended because of that.
 
CaptainArmband said:
That's what players said? As I said I'm curious as to where all this Miller tells the press stories and things come from if anyone else can point it out also?
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Listen bud i don't have an agenda against Miller i am only saying what i've been told.
What i will say is that during the Pedro farce i posted on a thread that Millers behaviour might come back and bite him on the arse, looks like that's what has happened. It might be an accumulation of things have reached a head and any enemies he's made have said enough is enough.
 
If Miller is the leak who leaked the hummel stuff. What was it that was leaked in the first place.

Murty has to go. No player is going to respect a manager that runs up the stairs to the boss as soon as things get heated. Whatever happened, has happened before the game given the way the players played, the reaction of Halliday and then Candeias. There is something much deeper going on here than folk are letting on.
 
Oduwa said:
Are you prepared to share this story or if not can you share who you shared it with and then we can approach said person to see if they will share it?
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He will not share it and they whoever they are will not share it,true or not I have said a few times that I would not have a mentally challenged manager of our club especially one who grew up in a bitter mentally challenged family to me it stinks.
 
Murty got a lot of slack for poor performances when he was stuck in a job due to Pedro’s sacking. To his credit, he worked through the mccinnes shambles and got some impressive result, resulting in our best run of form for a few years.

But I always thought his lack of defending his own players, and always going out of his way to not annoy anyone, anywhere (well, apart from his own dressing room it seems) started to grate.

I’m not sure what has happened since the game at Ibrox against Celtic. By all accounts we played ok, certainly it’s the most pressure they have been in against us for years. But the fall out from that game - did he ruin morale behind the scenes by picking on certain players, or did they suddenly decide he was a charlatan - whatever happened, it’s fallen off a cliff since.

And I doubt it will get better. If they leave Murty in charge, there is a genuine chance of finishing 4th which would be a true embarrassment.
 
Cross Keys Rab said:
If Miller is the leak who leaked the hummel stuff. What was it that was leaked in the first place.

Murty has to go. No player is going to respect a manager that runs up the stairs to the boss as soon as things get heated. Whatever happened, has happened before the game given the way the players played, the reaction of Halliday and then Candeias. There is something much deeper going on here than folk are letting on.
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The club leaked the Hummel deal to deflect from the problems with Murty,I think that would be fairly common tactics by our p.r dept.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
But it's not just about Sunday. The suspensions are a result of a culmination of things with both players and a dressing room that has been unsettled for over two years.
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I’m sure the real story will come out and you will find the players are guilty of being passionate for our Institution. If Miller had been guilty the last time of anything do you really think he would have still been there ? Our manager is out his depth and doesn’t like help from anyone you just have to watch him at games when he stands on his own not using his assistants, even Pep is in dialogue with Arteta all match for a second opinion.
I think Murty has a delegating problem and thinks he can do everything on his own , he can’t no one can.
 
Tagsbear said:
That’s not how it works though, if, and I say if because I don’t know the details, there has been a complaint of harassment they cannot just say ‘Ach this is football, man up’, they employee has rights.

Maybe it could have been diffused, maybe they tried to and the complainant was adamant they wanted to take it further. We don’t know.
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Correct.

I still wonder if there is more to this than a dressing room bust up. Murty is a football person who will have been in dressing rooms for years and well used to heated exchanges. I also don’t believe a heated exchange would lead to suspensions of this nature. Players will be fined and or told they won’t be selected but this is a full blown HR issue.

It’s strange when you consider that Miller is out of contract in a month and could just be allowed to walk away so I can only conclude there is something out of the ordinary has taken place.

Rumour has it that Docherty and Morelos were close to blows yet there is no club action against either of them. This was close to a public dressing room fall out and looks to have been treated as such. On this basis you are left wondering what went on with Miller and Wallace but I think we can take it this was more than a very heated exchange by passionate players.
 
Tagsbear said:
If Murty went straight to the board to tell on the players like a school prefect, instead of sitting down and having a word with them and trying to sort it out its no wonder the players don’t like him.

However in doing so he has forced the board to take action, if he’s raised a formal complaint they have to act, as any other employer would if there’s accusations, I assume, of harassment.
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I suspect you are probably correct about how this played out with Murty going to the board and making a complaint about the players. There’s no other plausible explanation for invoking HR process resulting in the players suspension pending investigation.

If so, Murty will have made a rod for his own back here. Players talk, football circles in the UK are small. His time at Reading illustrates that given how the players apparently viewed him going by the ‘secret footballers’ account.

Ultimately though, he should never have been in post but here we are discussing another footballing shambles under the leadership of MD Stewart Robertson.
 
As usual, I'm beginning to see another side to this.
Initially I wanted shot of both players for disrespecting the Manager, not for disrespecting Murty. Our Manager has to be accorded respect, not 'piled onto', whoever is in the role.
However, reading Miller's pov where he specifically states that Murty was not present at the time of his involvement I may be about to do a 180.
If Murty decided that there would be no post-mortem/discussion/review until much later(his "it's too raw at the moment" comment) and and Miller interpreted that as there would be no managerial p-m and then took that as carte-blanch to, as senior-pro and vice-captain, lay into the players for disgracing the club - I don't see much, if any, issue.
And, if the above is what happened and Murty went to Robertson not because he was verbally assaulted but because Miller disobeyed Murty's touchy-feely approach then Murty for raising it and Robertson for acting on it need rooted out, pronto.
 
rez1872 said:
Stewart Robertson has to go. He is incompetent.

Murty is out his depth, not his fault, the fault lies with the board and chief executive. Until there are some major changes at that level we will continue to be a shambles.
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This is bang on
 
1960bear said:
Listen bud i don't have an agenda against Miller i am only saying what i've been told.
What i will say is that during the Pedro farce i posted on a thread that Millers behaviour might come back and bite him on the arse, looks like that's what has happened. It might be an accumulation of things have reached a head and any enemies he's made have said enough is enough.
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Ive no argument with you mate Im just trying to see if there is any foundation to the allegations he tells stories to press etc or if it's just a rumour that has grown.
No one seems to say yes he carries stories and heres how we know - personally I just dont see it but a lot of folk seem very certain and was just posing the question have I missed something that hes done or is it just unsubstantiated rumour?
 
devilman said:
The club is falling apart inside. The board are doing what exactly?????
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Similar to Murty and players, not fit for purpose.
...and please nobody come on a gives us the line “but they saved us fae the spivs and Ashley”. They’ve dined out on that one for too long.
 
standardbarger said:
The club leaked the Hummel deal to deflect from the problems with Murty,I think that would be fairly common tactics by our p.r dept.
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That would be common tactics by any PR department. But the Hummel deal was going to leak sometime, we must be getting close to an announcement.
 
Talktalk said:
I’m sure the real story will come out and you will find the players are guilty of being passionate for our Institution. If Miller had been guilty the last time of anything do you really think he would have still been there ? Our manager is out his depth and doesn’t like help from anyone you just have to watch him at games when he stands on his own not using his assistants, even Pep is in dialogue with Arteta all match for a second opinion.
I think Murty has a delegating problem and thinks he can do everything on his own , he can’t no one can.
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This is textbook spin - "their only crime was being passionate for our Institution..." Except it isn't really. It is borne from self-interest, which I'm not necessarily knocking.

Murty is a separate issue and his incompetence will ensure he's not long for Ibrox. The dressing room unrest, however, has been there pre-Murty and it emanates consistently from certain quarters.

It was interesting listening to the H&H Daily Update yesterday where they mentioned issues with experienced players being arrogant and unwelcoming to younger players.

Cliques have been dictating the dressing room for too long.
 
Story is obviously coming direct from Miller there so a pinch of salt required, but it would answer the question people had about how Murty could be in the dressing room having a 'bust up' and be interviewed after the game saying he didn't want to go into the dressing room at the same time, to avoid conflict.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
This is textbook spin - "their only crime was being passionate for our Institution..." Except it isn't really. It is borne from self-interest, which I'm not necessarily knocking.

Murty is a separate issue and his incompetence will ensure he's not long for Ibrox. The dressing room unrest, however, has been there pre-Murty and it emanates consistently from certain quarters.

It was interesting listening to the H&H Daily Update yesterday where they mentioned issues with experienced players being arrogant and unwelcoming to younger players.

Cliques have been dictating the dressing room for too long.
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WE all have opinions mate that’s what make the forum so enjoyable. I wasn’t trying to spin anything just giving my humble rant.
 
SmileyBear said:
I said that as that's what it seems to me having played football for years.

That's what happens in Football the captain and vice-captain will have their say as will other players I cant see why you seem intent to make it about more than that, as I said it always happens in Football.

I can't really explain this again and again to you.
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We are not that far apart.

I think the manager is the boss and has the final say. You would prefer a free-for- all squabble, everyone shouting and finger pointing, and further resentments and bad feeling being created.

There is a reason why picking teams and tactics by committee was abandoned by every club and association on the planet and the job given to one man. You ever play in a team picked and run by committee? One saying one thing, another saying something else. Try it sometime, see how good you think that system is.
 
Any player not happy at the club please make a orderly queue as I can promise you , you won't be missed not and I mean not one of them couldn't be replaced . Fact
 
Cross Keys Rab said:
If Miller is the leak who leaked the hummel stuff. What was it that was leaked in the first place.

Murty has to go. No player is going to respect a manager that runs up the stairs to the boss as soon as things get heated. Whatever happened, has happened before the game given the way the players played, the reaction of Halliday and then Candeias. There is something much deeper going on here than folk are letting on.
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A total guess, I would bet on Hummel. We are a good feather in their cap.
 
It is looking like Murty is Or has lost plot. Maybe didn't like Wallace and Miller going in and firing off at the players while he was wanting to let things calm down...or what ever his statement was.

Looking like Miller and Wallace have got it right imo.

Murty is needing to be removed sadly.
 
HoboUK said:
They're equally guilty - see the slow motion rollout of the story over Sunday / Monday using the club's favourite methods. Same with the kit deal , the board ( not directly imho) are happy for info to be passed to the likes of 4Lads / prominent social media / admins on FF to become privy to info they'll pass along.

Im not even defending Miller or Wallace , just both have reps as model professionals and if my name was ( as KM and LW believe) being slandered and my job put in jeopardy I think i would use the media to defend myself too.

If they've undermined the manager deliberately then they need to go as they can never be trusted again , but all my initial point was is that both the board and the players need to shoulder the blame.
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I'm not so sure they've undermined him z much as do his job for him if the story is right.

Think Murty has taken the hump at that.
 
Commentator said:
As usual, I'm beginning to see another side to this.
Initially I wanted shot of both players for disrespecting the Manager, not for disrespecting Murty. Our Manager has to be accorded respect, not 'piled onto', whoever is in the role.
However, reading Miller's pov where he specifically states that Murty was not present at the time of his involvement I may be about to do a 180.
If Murty decided that there would be no post-mortem/discussion/review until much later(his "it's too raw at the moment" comment) and and Miller interpreted that as there would be no managerial p-m and then took that as carte-blanch to, as senior-pro and vice-captain, lay into the players for disgracing the club - I don't see much, if any, issue.
And, if the above is what happened and Murty went to Robertson not because he was verbally assaulted but because Miller disobeyed Murty's touchy-feely approach then Murty for raising it and Robertson for acting on it need rooted out, pronto.
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I'd agree with that if that is what happened.
 
Commentator said:
As usual, I'm beginning to see another side to this.
Initially I wanted shot of both players for disrespecting the Manager, not for disrespecting Murty. Our Manager has to be accorded respect, not 'piled onto', whoever is in the role.
However, reading Miller's pov where he specifically states that Murty was not present at the time of his involvement I may be about to do a 180.
If Murty decided that there would be no post-mortem/discussion/review until much later(his "it's too raw at the moment" comment) and and Miller interpreted that as there would be no managerial p-m and then took that as carte-blanch to, as senior-pro and vice-captain, lay into the players for disgracing the club - I don't see much, if any, issue.
And, if the above is what happened and Murty went to Robertson not because he was verbally assaulted but because Miller disobeyed Murty's touchy-feely approach then Murty for raising it and Robertson for acting on it need rooted out, pronto.
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Is this the implication? The rant(s) weren’t even at Murty?
 
Commentator said:
As usual, I'm beginning to see another side to this.
Initially I wanted shot of both players for disrespecting the Manager, not for disrespecting Murty. Our Manager has to be accorded respect, not 'piled onto', whoever is in the role.
However, reading Miller's pov where he specifically states that Murty was not present at the time of his involvement I may be about to do a 180.
If Murty decided that there would be no post-mortem/discussion/review until much later(his "it's too raw at the moment" comment) and and Miller interpreted that as there would be no managerial p-m and then took that as carte-blanch to, as senior-pro and vice-captain, lay into the players for disgracing the club - I don't see much, if any, issue.
And, if the above is what happened and Murty went to Robertson not because he was verbally assaulted but because Miller disobeyed Murty's touchy-feely approach then Murty for raising it and Robertson for acting on it need rooted out, pronto.
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If Murtys went to Robertson and said Miller had said this and that and it’s proven not true then he needs to go right now, they reckon there are 30 witnesses to what happened so the truth won’t be hard to get, on the other hand if Miller is found out yelling lies and did attack Murty he should be sacked without pay.
I don’t think there’s a hope in hell Miller will be sacked . It’s a black and white case if Murty Was there then Miller has a case to answer if Murty has told lies then he can’t be trusted with any other evidence he want to use.
 
JD1872 said:
I would be surprised if someone has made an actual complaint , can you imagine if Murty has gone to the HR team to complain? He would never work in football again

I think it is more likely that the board have decided to pursue the matter through official channels. Maybe in an attempt to send a message the players but what a complete arse they have made of things
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I'd be inclined to agree this scenario as being more likely than some of the stuff I'm reading. The idea of Murty running to the Board 'demanding action' just doesn't sit right with me. Regardless of his abilities as a Manager, what little I've been able to judge of his character from soundbites and interviews suggest it's just not something he would do.

Like many things in the aftermath of Sunday, some 'hypotheses' seem to be accepted as 'fact' if they support the posters point of view whilst alternatives are dismissed.

I doubt there is a person on this board with any real idea of what went on in the dressing room. Everything is rumour and speculation.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
I'm not on here to defend Miller.

Although he's certainly done more damage to the mentally challengeds over the years than Sundays starting 11 put together.

I'm on here because it's a convenient distraction for Murty and those imposters on Sunday.

They f***in shamed us.
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I understand all of that however Miller was yattering to King on the pitch not so long ago. He’s been involved in too many things that leak when he’s not happy. Wallace puzzles me more after staying through the SPIVS cheating and stealing from us. I admired Wallace for that, if however he’s fit and downed tools he needs to go too.
 
Commentator said:
As usual, I'm beginning to see another side to this.
Initially I wanted shot of both players for disrespecting the Manager, not for disrespecting Murty. Our Manager has to be accorded respect, not 'piled onto', whoever is in the role.
However, reading Miller's pov where he specifically states that Murty was not present at the time of his involvement I may be about to do a 180.
If Murty decided that there would be no post-mortem/discussion/review until much later(his "it's too raw at the moment" comment) and and Miller interpreted that as there would be no managerial p-m and then took that as carte-blanch to, as senior-pro and vice-captain, lay into the players for disgracing the club - I don't see much, if any, issue.
And, if the above is what happened and Murty went to Robertson not because he was verbally assaulted but because Miller disobeyed Murty's touchy-feely approach then Murty for raising it and Robertson for acting on it need rooted out, pronto.
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Quite honestly mate, that does appear to be the most logical explanation, and one which would fit within the timeframes. Only question mark against that would be in respect of the final paragraph. Surely Robertson would just have told Murty to GTF and to grow a pair. Even allowing for their 'nice guys' persona, I cannot see Robertson agreeing to suspend the players on that level of insubordination.
 
I hate the Record. But Murty doesn't have the stature to deal with a sqaud of Pro's. Pro's see inexperience as weakness and don't respect it. I also believe Kenny and Waldo's pals have reached out. The summer of 2016 photos from Florida that were going about shows you how close some players and families are. The Board have left Murty for cannon fodder. They are being weak and it absolutely stinks of them following a Traynor PR spin. I am not saying Kenny and Wallace are innocent but Berry is right an experienced Manager would not have allowed such a situation to develop. Board and Robertson need to grow a pair and do the right thing for the Players, for Murty and the fans.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I'd be inclined to agree this scenario as being more likely than some of the stuff I'm reading. The idea of Murty running to the Board 'demanding action' just doesn't sit right with me. Regardless of his abilities as a Manager, what little I've been able to judge of his character from soundbites and interviews suggest it's just not something he would do.

Like many things in the aftermath of Sunday, some 'hypotheses' seem to be accepted as 'fact' if they support the posters point of view whilst alternatives are dismissed.

I doubt there is a person on this board with any real idea of what went on in the dressing room. Everything is rumour and speculation.
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They wouldn’t/Couldn’t suspend employees pending investigation if there wasn’t a grievance raised.
 
Tagsbear said:
They wouldn’t/Couldn’t suspend employees pending investigation if there wasn’t a grievance raised.
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Oh, I don't dispute that. What I doubt - and I may well have judged him wrongly - is that Murty instigated it by running to the Board. Any number of people - even Board members - could have witnessed what went on and raised the issue.
 
Cyberniv said:
We are not that far apart.

I think the manager is the boss and has the final say. You would prefer a free-for- all squabble, everyone shouting and finger pointing, and further resentments and bad feeling being created.

There is a reason why picking teams and tactics by committee was abandoned by every club and association on the planet and the job given to one man. You ever play in a team picked and run by committee? One saying one thing, another saying something else. Try it sometime, see how good you think that system is.
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We are miles apart.
 
Commentator said:
Miller specifically denied that Murty was in the room when he 'intervened'.
I don't know what happened, just trying to fit the pieces together in a hopefully plausible way.
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Is GM trying to claim that KM and LW undermined his tactics talks prior to the game and the performance was a result of their interference?
There's a lot of scenarios, but the obvious outcome was one of the most craven and simpering capitulations ever seen by a Rangers team, and before all this kicked off in public.
I don't think this started on Sunday at kick off.
 
BrownBrogues said:
I hate the Record. But Murty doesn't have the stature to deal with a sqaud of Pro's. Pro's see inexperience as weakness and don't respect it. I also believe Kenny and Waldo's pals have reached out. The summer of 2016 photos from Florida that were going about shows you how close some players and families are. The Board have left Murty for cannon fodder. They are being weak and it absolutely stinks of them following a Traynor PR spin. I am not saying Kenny and Wallace are innocent but Berry is right an experienced Manager would not have allowed such a situation to develop. Board and Robertson need to grow a pair and do the right thing for the Players, for Murty and the fans.
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Traynor and Robertson need to go as does Murty.

The thread I posted that's been chopped by admin had a 15 min video of of Jackson & Berry talking about the current state of play.Its pretty evident from it that Wallace & Miller have been thrown under a bus.Murty really should man up too.If senior players in our squad are itching to be interviewed to back the two players then how can the manager possibly continue?!
 
thornhill bear said:
Obviously one of the players is feeding this to the papers. Whilst I believe that we need to get this sorted don' they see how damaging this is to the club and how we feel as a support to see our Club being dragged thro the mud again
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Makes you wonder does whoever it is that talks to the comics even give a monkeys for the club.

Any player/employee caught doing this should be shown the door.
 
ascender said:
It’s not as if we haven’t been here before with this board..... and this bunch of players.

There's stuff going on which has been happening to some degree, on and off the pitch from these players since before Warburton's time.
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The dressing room has not been a nice place for quite some time and Miller and our club captain with a couple of others are in the thick of it. We need a strong manager to come in and sort it all out. Someone like Neil Warnock would sort it.
 
Bertie Bassett said:
As regards Jackson's story in the Record it is 100% fact and that's from someone who was in the dressing room from start to finish, Murty is a pussy and if anyone should be suspended it's this clown.
A man who left the dressing room because it was to hot, who is far to friendly with Brenda sorry he should be out the door.
Miller is going to take this suspension the full road and yes players are backing him.
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He’s got 5 weeks on his contract and will get paid. He’s been in the middle of a whole load of dressing room politics for ages and should have been punted after his previous shannanigans.
 
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