£810k for Lammers, Cantwell, Goldson, Wright and McCrorie

Probably wiped out if we are still paying part of Goldson’s wages.

Does not make for good reading, but on the other hand what can you do if clubs are not willing to pay decent money?

We got our moneys worth out of Goldson. Wright was free I think (or just a small compensation fee), and McCrorie came through the ranks. Cantwell didn’t cost a massive amount. So throw in wages savings then not the worst dealings.

But essentially getting nothing for Lammers is the biggest failure, given what we paid for him only a year earlier.
 
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Chocolateleftfoot said:
The players we brought in as replacements still need to be paid. No doubt there's a saving in salary costs but it's not quite as much as it is being made out to be.
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£6M. It was discussed at the AGM. £41M reduced to £35M.

Quite impressive in isolation. But it also shows how poorly we have conducted our business until this summer. The amount of money we threw at underperforming, injured and disincentivised players can never be allowed to happen again.
 
If an undercover fan of that lot got the job of recruitment I actually think they would have collected more money for us for those 5 players. We should have got more than that for Scott Wright alone never mind our best central defender, possibly best creative midfielder and an in form striker with a 1 in 2 record in Holland. That’s criminal.
 
giogaddi said:
It's absolutely mental that people think Cantwell's situation would have been a secret in football cicrles and we'd have raked in a fortune on him. The amount of shite spraffed about that boy on here today has been incredible.

Our PTM has been disastrous in terms of profit. Kamara, Barisic, Morelos, Kent and, to an extent, Aribo were all sold/let go at the wrong time. These are the guys we fucked up on. Not a waster who preferred to be out on the golf course when his team was playing CL qualifiers.
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Agree with all other than Aribo, did he not have a minimum release clause?
 
Yeti_Hunter said:
The issue we had is that it was very publicly known we wanted rid of these players.

We need to stop shouting this stuff from the rooftops, you had Clement in pressers openly stating certain players were told to move on etc.

No club is going to overpay for a player they know we are desperate to get rid of.
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We didn't shout it from the rooftops until it became impossible to ignore, leading to the one in/one out chat that I used to argue over that turned out to be true.

Remember after the Ajax friendly?

Even at that, wasn't exactly a shock who was available and who wasn't.
 
Hurricane Run said:
£6M. It was discussed at the AGM. £41M reduced to £35M.

Quite impressive in isolation. But it also shows how poorly we have conducted our business until this summer. The amount of money we threw at underperforming, injured and disincentivised players can never be allowed to happen again.
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£6m is a big saving in wages.

What I'm struggling to get my head around is that it cost us about £15m in transfer fees to save £6m in wages. It doesn't make sense to me.

Pay up parts of players contracts to get them to leave, pay a fee for a replacement and pay the replacements salary. How is that cutting costs?

I just can't see the logic in it, especially when the replacements aren't any better.

The players that were leaving on a free, Jack, Barisic, Lundstram and Jon McLaughlin could have been replaced by Barron, Liam Kelly and Jefte for about 800k and we could have just went with that.

Our wage bill would have been higher but we'd have "saved" the fees spent on Bajrami, Propper, Diomande and Igamane. Not to mention the money we will still need to pay for Cortes.

It must work out somehow, I just don't see it.
 
We should get the manky mob to sell our players .They always get top dollar for the players all the time and we give ours away This has to change
 
Looks like Lammers was some kind of swap deal with Propper and Goldson was either released for free or the fee we got was paid to him to get him to go.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
Mate, with all due respect, he was worth a whole lot more than 500k.

And while he did request to leave, banishing him to the b team was the choice of the club. He was still an asset under contract. He should have been told to knuckle down until someone coughed up a decent fee.

So we've given him away for buttons, spent £3.5m replacing him with Bajrami and presumably paying Bajrami, an international player from Serie A, a hefty wage himself. How are we any better off?

We'd be a better team right now if Cantwell was still here. He gave us better numbers than any of the other players we kept or have brought in.

We tried to give Hagi away as well but he dug his heels in. Now he looks like he's going to be a important player.
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Hagi would have been given away for free too if anyone showed interest.
 
Fife Bear said:
Looks like Lammers was some kind of swap deal with Propper and Goldson was either released for free or the fee we got was paid to him to get him to go.
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Agreed. The deals were very clearly linked, despite being separated by a week.

Reporting on this deal & a few others led to our support believing we probably raised £3m more than we did

Club could easily have corrected this after the window closed, as it has arguably generated unnecessary criticism.

I'm not surprised at all we've had to all but give most of them away.
 
deBoersHeader said:
The tramps literally ran Abada out of Scotland due to him being Jewish and still got £10m for him.

It's nothing to do with us shouting about it publicly it is down to the fact those running us are just shite at running a football club.
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They bought him for 3.6m and sold him for 6.3m
Wikipedia is often updated by a biased source.
 
Think it's obvious that wee had to take some of the transfer fees wee received and give it back to the players to get them out door.



Goldson for example why leave when you have 2 years at £38k a week to get about £12k a week.



Sum player trading model that
 
Candyass said:
No, it isn't.

Who was giving us a fee and taking on £35kpw of Goldson's wage?

Who was paying more for Cantwell who was punted to two B teams inside 18 months for form and lack of professionalism?

Three teams in Holland, the only realistic destination for Lammers, were paying £15k a week max - hence why we've likely had to pay the player off in part, similar to Goldson.

You're completely ignoring the reality of how awful the business we've done was - it doesn't suddenly correct itself because we need to raise funds to move players on.

The wagebill needed cut drastically and quickly - that further weakens our bargaining position.

Half our support sound like they'd have been happy to keep this lot, most of whom we all wrote off to a man over a year ago.

Now we've been swindled because we had to all-but give away players we all knew would be almost impossible to shift?
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Of course it's an issue mate. No club sells 4 or 5 players for less than a million in 2024.

Yes it's great to get the wages saved but we also need transfer fees coming in.

A club better at negotiating gets much more money but we've been rubbish at it forever.
 
TheFantasticNinetiesFox said:
Disagree about Cantwell. He downed tools long before his exit and expect he will have much the same story at Blackburn given his history.

That figure of £810k is shocking right enough though.
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Yep, when Hagi was keeping himself in shape playing for the B team, Todders was sitting on his ar$e in his rented flat in Park Circus! Unprofessional waster!
 
Ross said:
Think we basically just gave them Lammers for 0 and they gave us Propper for 0. Both fees where pretty much the same.
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Fife Bear said:
Looks like Lammers was some kind of swap deal with Propper and Goldson was either released for free or the fee we got was paid to him to get him to go.
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There is no indication that there was a swap deal for Propper and Lammers.

According to a number of different sources we paid £1.5 million for Propper. We were told that price was a great deal that we were only getting because of a purchase clause in his contract. Nothing has come out to dispute the reports that all agreed we paid a fee for him.

There is also no indication that Twente have just taken over the fee that we paid Atalanta for Lammers as a couple of folk have suggested in the thread. If that was the case, whatever fee they were becoming liable for would simply have been included in the £810k compensation we've reported.

Either we've taken a fee and paid it direct to Lammers to pay up the remainder of his contract. Or we've accepted a nominal fee for Lammers which has allowed Twente to give him a signing bonus to make up for the lesser wages they'll pay him. The end result is the same thing either way.

In my book we've done some really poor business there. Others will just be happy we got those players out the door but that's short-sighted in my view. Part of building a player trading model is holding firm in your valuation of your players so it's a bad precedent to set, letting them walk for basically nothing.

If we'd agreed a nominal fee for Lammers back in January I'd have been happy but he had a highly successful loan spell at Utrecht. It's a shambles we failed to capitalise on that in my view.
 
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Fk me further proof the people running the club don’t have a fk clue we can moan about Clement but that boardroom needs gutting now
 
giogaddi said:
Your post was, respectfully, a load of delusional nonsense.

'Loan him out to Blackburn for a season and then sell him for £7m/£8m'. Yeah, sure.

He wanted out, was draining a large wage and had a single suitor. Hardly the conditions to be turning a huge profit.
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GioG fair play mate and I apologise for my last, I'm just as frustrated as you mate, I understand he wanted out, no disrespect to you whatsoever, although I do think and will always think it could have been handled so much better, would a loan for 12 months have harmed any more, that's the point I'm making, I want maximum profit just as much as the next guy, it's working for other clubs but we seem to carry on the same old, lessons need to be learned both buying and selling, rapidly.
 
As others have said, we are spectacularly bad at contract negotiations and massively overpay for average talent.

It's now coming back to bite us on the arse as all clubs know, and have done for a long time, that we're desperate sellers and it's priced in.

Bassey and Patterson are exceptions to that but had a lot of potential and were young, we haven't much of that stock anymore.
 
The only thing they seem to do well is take our money, regularly.

If only they were so savvy in player trading and contracts.
 
robbo89 said:
Fairly alarming to hear CFO James Taylor confirm at the AGM that £810k was the total sum we received for those 5 players.

Lammers scored 11 goals in 20 games for Utrecht.

Goldson was our best defender of the last decade and would have been a better option than Propper this season.

Cantwell is rated in the English Championship and was looked at by many as our best player prior to Clement's arrival.

We needed to cut the wage bill of course but even in light of that context this looks to me like bad business by the club. We need to drive a better deal in our transfer negotiations than this, surely?
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Another outstanding result last night, quick let’s think of a negative thread to post.
 
Yeti_Hunter said:
The issue we had is that it was very publicly known we wanted rid of these players.

We need to stop shouting this stuff from the rooftops, you had Clement in pressers openly stating certain players were told to move on etc.

No club is going to overpay for a player they know we are desperate to get rid of.
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Yeah because the agents wouldn't just tell buying clubs the situation anyway
 
Glasgow Argyle said:
GioG fair play mate and I apologise for my last, I'm just as frustrated as you mate, I understand he wanted out, no disrespect to you whatsoever, although I do think and will always think it could have been handled so much better, would a loan for 12 months have harmed any more, that's the point I'm making, I want maximum profit just as much as the next guy, it's working for other clubs but we seem to carry on the same old, lessons need to be learned both buying and selling, rapidly.
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No need to apologise mate!

And I get what you're saying. The PTM has been disastrous and is one of the main reasons why we've plummeted as a club. I just don't think we had a chance of making money on Cantwell given his circumstance and reputation.
 
giogaddi said:
No need to apologise mate!

And I get what you're saying. The PTM has been disastrous and is one of the main reasons why we've plummeted as a club. I just don't think we had a chance of making money on Cantwell given his circumstance and reputation.
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Scunnered to max GioG really am, don't want to make comparisons however they mhanks across the city are shipping out players on loan and punting them 6/12months later for millions, we are basically paying players to depart to get them off the wage bill. The structure is broken and it's seriously unsustainable, as a club moving forward which we all want it's 1 year forward and 5 years back. Wish I could have attended the AGM this morning however I'm out of country at work, relying on updates via FF and H&H. Anyway onto Sunday in Dingwall.. 3 points is a must.
 
DRAGO said:
I completely understand the wages argument but 800k is beyond pathetic!

An utter, utter shambles!
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A total shambles. However, if you're selling your home (which you think is worth £250k) because you can't afford the mortgage payments and someone comes along and offers you £150k, which is just enough to pay off the mortgage and stop you from possibly going into bankruptcy, and you receive no other offers what would you do?
Our backs are to the wall, those accounts suggest administration is a real possibility without taking drastic action.
It of course doesn't excuse the gross mismanagement that went on to get us to this position.
 
Chocolateleftfoot said:
Mate, with all due respect, he was worth a whole lot more than 500k.

And while he did request to leave, banishing him to the b team was the choice of the club. He was still an asset under contract. He should have been told to knuckle down until someone coughed up a decent fee.

So we've given him away for buttons, spent £3.5m replacing him with Bajrami and presumably paying Bajrami, an international player from Serie A, a hefty wage himself. How are we any better off?

We'd be a better team right now if Cantwell was still here. He gave us better numbers than any of the other players we kept or have brought in.

We tried to give Hagi away as well but he dug his heels in. Now he looks like he's going to be a important player.
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I was hugely cynical on Hagi, but his impact has been unreal.

My biggest issue with Hagi previously was physicality, consistency and whether or not he could impact games coming back from his injury.

He has answered all of those questions within a month, I was miles wrong.

If we are even going to entertain the viability of taking the same approach with Cantwell, Lammers etc, then you're doing a huge disservice to Hagi.

Hagi's attitude was never in doubt, even with his critics.

Going back to the fees: they were a reflection on the reality we were in: terrible recruitment, all on a high wage despite being somewhat outcast at their previous clubs, the desperate need to free up wages for incomings.

...and again, with the players Beale signed, almost all had a nightmare first season having had 3-4 years of not hitting the heights elsewhere prior to that.


I'm the last person who would defend this board, but I said at the time I was surprised we managed to move so many of these players on at all.
 
juan guy said:
On what basis do you reckon Cantwell is worth 4 or 5 million?

We got him for buttons because nobody wanted him. Then we sold him for buttons because the only offer was in the last few days of the window from Blackburn effin Rovers.

You must be some salesman if you could convince someone to pay 4 or 5 million in those circumstances.
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The filth got £3m for Mickey Johnston.
 
I thought the financial guy had made a mistake because all the players that left would be in next year's account and was thinking the 5 registrations disposed of would be Mcglaughlin Borna Jack Lundstram and Roofe but it says post balance sheet events. If that's the case that's shocking
 
juan guy said:
On what basis do you reckon Cantwell is worth 4 or 5 million?

We got him for buttons because nobody wanted him. Then we sold him for buttons because the only offer was in the last few days of the window from Blackburn effin Rovers.

You must be some salesman if you could convince someone to pay 4 or 5 million in those circumstances.
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I was on the understanding that the fee for Cantwell was in the region of 1.5M from Norwich, in the grand scheme of things considering his wage and what he departed for means we have royally f@cked up. We all have opinions and we have to respect that, however if Cantwell keeps performing for Blackburn for the rest of the season like he has started them his worth will rise rapidly from his departure figure, would it really have harmed us so much to ship him out on loan for 12 months with the view to selling him on ? So many clubs are doing it to us, loan to buy, loan with options, in 8 months time Clement might not even be here when the next manager might have fancied him, it's poor poor negotiations. Someone will come in for Cantwell if he continues his start in the Championship, that is for sure, hopefully Nils installed a sell on clause.
 
The problem clearly was the wages. It seems the only interest came from teams who couldn’t get anywhere near the wage they were on for us and therefore we had to make up the difference in some way.
 
I sometimes think I’ve walked into the twilight zone on here.

Why are so many people shocked at the £850k? The only value in any of those players given the legacy contract and salary %^*& up, was getting them off the books. Mission accomplished.

Again, the salary and contract debacle was a legacy issue from Belale and Co predominantly. John Bennet fessed up at the start of the summer and JG rolled out the plan to reduce the wage bill and lower the average age of the squad .
That strategy is well underway and time will tell. This is not new news, it 100% relates to previous mis management and the board has already had a kicking for this.

I fully understood the implications in the summer so I can’t understand why the fan base is stuck in this cycle of abuse relating to %^*& ups declared and addressed months ago!

I switched on Clyde to see if they were giving the team due recognition for a fantastic display last night and all I’ve heard is Rangers fans calling in to drag the club and the board through the mud by quoting this £800k debacle.
It’s old news FFS and the changes in how we operate are underway. Why do we have so called Rangers men calling up Clyde and collectively kicking %^*& out of the club with those bastards?

Similar to the story with the Conservative politician, the news papers reported false transfer figures and sold the mis truths, not the club, not the corporate board and not the share holders.

Personally I think we have made a good start in achieving a viable player trading model with a number of the signings now at the club.

JG and GL continue to lead the club and manage the change in operating strategy and culture.

We have appointed what looks like a very competent CEO and the search for a competent chairman is ongoing.

We have seen a significant reduction in both wages and average age of the squad

We have seen some green shoots of recovery with team performances over the last couple of weeks, a great result in Europe once again and a superb performance last night with the team set up correctly and playing the football we have all been demanding for months.

Back in the summer, I accepted that this season was gubbed before it started and we had a long season ahead of us.
As long as I could see a clear plan and improvement, I would reluctantly forget this season.

I was concerned we were not moving forward but the last couple of weeks, and especially the way the team was set up last night gives me hope we are now, finally heading in the right direction. I think we can beat them in the cup final and I know we will finish 2nd in the league this season with a very credible Euro campaign.

We need to take a breath and stop constantly looking back and see where we are at Christmas then again next summer. I really do think we have turned a corner, time will tell.
 
Danty said:
So who released the figures about the fees we were getting for Lammers, Goldson, Cantwell etc?

Clearly miles off it.
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It comes down to the idiotic tactic of openly blaming the last guy and his players for months and months etc. Rather than just getting on with the job in hand
That shreds the value of those players.
That then limits your budget when they leave for nothing.
Rinse and repeat when the next guy comes in and spends 12 months blaming Clement for the squad.
 
Just over 3/4 of a mill....unreal. Makes our summer business seem even worse than it already did.

We cannot have this happen again. Stewart, the new chair, Koppen in his role of many colours - we need them ALL to start not just doing better than we have but radically so. Fast.
 
It’s shocking mis management to be honest. Firstly the inflated wages we pay to entice players to come, the running down of contracts, the not selling players at their peaks or when we’ve won leagues/trophies. Telling players they aren’t part of future or bombing them out or like today saying B-team players aren’t good enough, great for morale. Obviously poor negotiating skills too. Just everything seems amateurish.
 
JGers said:
If an undercover fan of that lot got the job of recruitment I actually think they would have collected more money for us for those 5 players. We should have got more than that for Scott Wright alone never mind our best central defender, possibly best creative midfielder and an in form striker with a 1 in 2 record in Holland. That’s criminal.
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Something that I was just about to post.
The poor show about all this really demonstrates how fecking bad it's all been handled.

Fife Bear said:
Hagi would have been given away for free too if anyone showed interest.
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And indeed that would have been the icing on the cake -- I have absolutely no doubt that we'd have jettisoned him for some absolutely ludicrously low figure.
 
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