A change of manager doesn't guarantee sucess

Hopefully Dave King has the resolve to keep Steven Gerrard as manager come what may the rest of this season and whatever happens next season.SG needs to be ruthless replacing the players responsible for the team losing 10 pts from a winning position in the last 13 league games.
Whatever happens next season?You suggesting he keeps his job if we're in same situation this time next year?That won't happen.He'll be the only Rangers manager given the leeway of going 2 IAR with nothing in modern times he won't get a 3rd.
 
During our 9IAR, they had McNeill, Brady,Macari and Burns. Constantly changing manager means new philosophies, new players, money spent. We need to give SG next season, and hope that guys like Smith,Hateley etc get SG to realise that he needs a plan B for certain matches. SG has shown in Europe that he can produce attractive, winning football so he knows what to do, but must realise than sometimes a bit of muscle works better.
 
Whatever happens next season?You suggesting he keeps his job if we're in same situation this time next year?That won't happen.He'll be the only Rangers manager given the leeway of going 2 IAR with nothing in modern times he won't get a 3rd.
When was Waddell manager?
68/69?
 
We can’t go changing managers every couple of seasons , we need stability and don’t forget he had to assemble a full team and what was achieved was the start of something but we need to bring in some quality signings not free frees and let’s get behind our manager and team as this is when they need us most
 
Judge him now. How long are you giving the new manager - 18 months, as well?
Personally I'd say 4 transfer windows is a decent amount of time to start having a pretty good idea on someone.
Same issues as last season seem to still be there.This team won't win anything this season imo hope I'm wrong but what I'm watching and having watched enough Rangers teams over the years this team for me won't.
 
Personally I'd say 4 transfer windows is a decent amount of time to start having a pretty good idea on someone.
Same issues as last season seem to still be there.This team won't win anything this season imo hope I'm wrong but what I'm watching and having watched enough Rangers teams over the years this team for me won't.

Basically you'd sack the next manager after 18 months as well if he was trophyless. The Club will never grow and prosper under those unrealistic parameters.
 
Judge him now. How long are you giving the new manager - 18 months, as well?

Warburton was given the same. Maybe not 18 months (he was fucking brutal in the Scottish Premiership and beforehand) but as soon as some could see through him it was met with; we can't afford to sack him and start all over again. We won't get better etc...

We've had numerous posters on here with the opinion that they think Gerrard will call it a day in the summer - leave by mutual agreement. What happens if he does?

That's exactly why Ross Wilson will be on the look out for a replacement. It's part of his remit.
 
McCoist - first job.
Warburton - third season as a manager. Third. One of which was in League One.
Murty, twice - youth team coach.
Pedro - a series of fairly short spells with Portuguese and Mexican teams. No tangible link to the club at all.
Gerrard - first season as manager.

We will look back on this period in ten, fifteen years time and ask why the board weren't more familiar with the definition of insanity.

Apart from Walter second time round, only manager we have appointed with a history of success in different roles was Dick Advocaat.
 
Basically you'd sack the next manager after 18 months as well if he was trophyless. The Club will never grow and prosper under those unrealistic parameters.
I really don't think it's unrealistic to expect Rangers to beat teams like Aberdeen,Hearts,Kilmarnock and St.Johnstone.I don't think it's unrealistic for us to take a title race into the spring.I don't think it's unrealistic to win silverware when on the whole apart from 1 team you're competing with footballing minions with a fraction of the budget .Celtic haven't had to work for this title or the last.If we were taking it into the last weeks of the season and fell just short I would say fair enough but it's done again before February is out.
 
Well in the league we're heading for double figures behind them.So I wouldn't have that as progress.
You don't think we've progressed at all compared to last season?

More points, further in cup, further in Europe, beat them at piggery for first time in 10 years

To me that's progress.

Nothing we can do about Celtic having an amazing season, all we can do is focus on ourselves. What they do is out with our control.
 
Warburton was given the same. Maybe not 18 months (he was fucking brutal in the Scottish Premiership and beforehand) but as soon as some could see through him it was met with; we can't afford to sack him and start all over again. We won't get better etc...

We've had numerous posters on here with the opinion that they think Gerrard will call it a day in the summer - leave by mutual agreement. What happens if he does?

That's exactly why Ross Wilson will be on the look out for a replacement. It's part of his remit.
On a fraction of the budget remember.
 
You're not comparing like for like.EPL against 1 of the worst top flight leagues as a whole in Europe (results from rest of SPFL outwith us and them back this up in Europe)People can polish a turd all they want no trophies in 2 season in the domestic competitions we play in is failure.I don't think it's being unrealistic or too demanding to expect us to beat teams like Kilmarnock and St.Johnstone.We maybe had up to half dozen players on the park that will get more in a week than most teams we play starting 11s combined.Will be the same most weeks against the teams we play.
Gerrard wins nothing this season then serious questions should be getting asked.

If your saying we should always beat these teams due to having a vastly superior budget, then you should also be content in the fact we can never win a trophy in Scotland as celtic have a far superior budget to us.

Cant expect us to regularly beat Celtic, and hope the same teams that arent allowed to beat us take some points off Celtic, if we arent allowed to drop points to teams with lower budgets.
 
It's a joke the way some people are going on. They need to take a long hard look at themselves. It puts me off reading some threads after I've read the first few comments due to the shite they are talking. Gerrard has gave us some of the best games and results for years people have short memories.
Stop it, talking sense is forbidden.
The mob mentality will worsen too.
 
You don't think we've progressed at all compared to last season?

More points, further in cup, further in Europe, beat them at piggery for first time in 10 years

To me that's progress.

Nothing we can do about Celtic having an amazing season, all we can do is focus on ourselves. What they do is out with our control.
Europe yes.Can talk about progress all you want domestically bottom line 0 trophies league done before February is out.Beating them at PH amounted to absolutely nothing so was pointless in grand scheme of things if people are happy with that good luck to them.I'm happy when we win trophies not individual games or % wins are up.
 
I have been one of his biggest critics - I feel his tactics and stubborness to change formations have cost us massively in the league.

He really does need to learn and fast. Its inconcievable to think that 75% of Rangers supporters know whats wrong but he doesnt. He must surely know he needs to change this.

He will get to next season for me - irrespective if he wins a trophy this season or not. Agreed we cant chop and change every season but you can only be happy for so long if there are no changes. Bringing in another manager would be too detrimental for next season I think.

He's given us some of the best Euro nights in a long time - so its not all bad. But a good manager will adjust every game dependant on the opponent. I havent seen much difference in the way we have played under him. I also think his experienced coaching staff should be helping or guiding him a bit more.

Next Season will be make or break. If he doesnt hit the ground running he could be gone by Christmas (at least no more winter break to Dubai then :p)
Well said mate.
 
Exactly mate, they've got all the opinions under the sun about why we should sack Gerrard and not a single opinion on who to replace him with or where we get the cash to compete financially or build a new team for a new manager. We're all pissed off we dropped points but I guarantee the same ones shouting sack him will be blowing smoke up his arse if we win the last 2 old firm games and win the Scottish cup.

Thats great. Because some fans you know can not name a mananger that would be a better choice - this means that Gerrard is the best option available? He has not done a fantastic job. Everyone who thinks that is already "blowing smoke up his arse".
 
Warburton was given the same. Maybe not 18 months (he was fucking brutal in the Scottish Premiership and beforehand) but as soon as some could see through him it was met with; we can't afford to sack him and start all over again. We won't get better etc...

We've had numerous posters on here with the opinion that they think Gerrard will call it a day in the summer - leave by mutual agreement. What happens if he does?

That's exactly why Ross Wilson will be on the look out for a replacement. It's part of his remit.

There's a reason the job went to someone like Gerrard. I think people will be underwhelmed by who is going to take a manager's role with a limited budget and sky-high expectations vs. Celtic.

The new guy is on a hiding to nothing. And let's hope he doesn't falter in those early weeks of Europe...

Outside our bubble, people will view SG as doing a good job.
 
I really don't think it's unrealistic to expect Rangers to beat teams like Aberdeen,Hearts,Kilmarnock and St.Johnstone.I don't think it's unrealistic for us to take a title race into the spring.I don't think it's unrealistic to win silverware when on the whole apart from 1 team you're competing with footballing minions with a fraction of the budget .Celtic haven't had to work for this title or the last.If we were taking it into the last weeks of the season and fell just short I would say fair enough but it's done again before February is out.

But we are beating those teams. It's a reason we're 22pts ahead of 3rd place.

Of course Celtic have had to work. They've had to win just about every game. If they had dropped more than 8pts, the gap would be a lot closer.
 
What gets me are the couple of bunnets who now tell us they never approved of Gerrard in the first place.
Held your water well guys.
FFS.
 
He deserves another season at least as he's done a good job overall. I really dont know what to add to that as it should be obvious to everyone.
 
anyone who says we need to sack SG and get a new manger, at this time, doesn't have the interests of the club at heart.

We have improved vastly each year, we were unlucky not to win the SLCF due to refereeing decisions. We have VASTLY outstripped any European expectations 2 years in a row.

Starting again is not the answer, and getting in now with daft opinions is A) Knee Jerk or B) Wanting to say 'i told you so' or C) a 'concern troll'
Well said , the vast majority of fans have sung the praises of Katic, Kent and Morelos yet none of them have returned from Dubai yet . Gerrard has stood by them and it's time they returned his faith. Sadly Jack ,Davis and Goldson could be added to that list so it's no surprise we have lost so many points on the back of so many off form players.
 
But we are beating those teams. It's a reason we're 22pts ahead of 3rd place.

Of course Celtic have had to work. They've had to win just about every game. If they had dropped more than 8pts, the gap would be a lot closer.
We've fell off a cliff again in January/February.We were beating those teams August/December not regularly now.
All the good work of beating those teams counts for absolutely nothing now if you can't do it when it comes into late winter spring.
We've almost 3 months of meaningless league football just the same as the 2 years before he came in and now 2 he's been here.
 
We are coming to the end of our 4th season back. Sitting somewhere in between being real genuine contenders and best of the rest. 2 years ago we were a total laughing stock.

Compare to what happened with Juventus. Dropped one division to Serie B for one season. Even with all their might, it took them 5 full seasons back in Serie A, including two 7th place finishes, to finally win it again. But now they've built up a proper team and have been dominating the division for years.

100% realise it's massive thing for some people but I wasn't born for 6 of our 9 in a row never mind their one, it genuinely means fuckall (apart from the fact its us not winning the league) to me if they get 9 or 10. They stopped our 10 in a row and then we followed it up with a treble and a double. So really what was the amazing achievement of stopping one league title worth?

For me it's all about having more titles than them. Win 55 with the foundations set to dominate the next decade.
 
But we are beating those teams. It's a reason we're 22pts ahead of 3rd place.

Of course Celtic have had to work. They've had to win just about every game. If they had dropped more than 8pts, the gap would be a lot closer.
The league is done by February.That's not working for anything.
 
Folk need to remember, we were at the bottom of Scottish football only A few years ago, success needs to be built back up, folk expected us to romp the league our first season back, we are having build the club back up from next to nothing

And don’t forget the stadium has needed major maintenance and our various commercials deals have been a mess which has limited our income. We are reliant on loans to keep us running and it will take a bit to make us fully sustainable. Sacking a manager comes at a huge cost and we can’t afford to keep doing that. We’ve still got players from the Pedro days we need rid of.

Im happy with Gerrard so far, especially in Europe, but obviously he needs to do better. We don’t have unlimited money to chuck around and need to live within our means. Look back at the days of Murray and remember where that got us.
 
If your saying we should always beat these teams due to having a vastly superior budget, then you should also be content in the fact we can never win a trophy in Scotland as celtic have a far superior budget to us.

Cant expect us to regularly beat Celtic, and hope the same teams that arent allowed to beat us take some points off Celtic, if we arent allowed to drop points to teams with lower budgets.
Problem hasn't been beating them this or last season.Gerrard's record against teams like Aberdeen and Kilmarnock is abysmal.
The record at a really bad Hearts team at Tynecastle this season leaves a lot to be desired.
 
Problem hasn't been beating them this or last season.Gerrard's record against teams like Aberdeen and Kilmarnock is abysmal.
The record at a really bad Hearts team at Tynecastle this season leaves a lot to be desired.

You ignored the overall point.

We are beating a team with a much larger budget than us when we beat Celtic.

Why can teams with smaller budgets than us not beat us?

If we go by then logic that larger budgets should always mean success, then we should never beat Celtic or win any trophies.
 
It's a joke the way some people are going on. They need to take a long hard look at themselves. It puts me off reading some threads after I've read the first few comments due to the shite they are talking. Gerrard has gave us some of the best games and results for years people have short memories.
Your sick of the threads rightly criticising Gerard and his continual feck ups tactically and his latest man management farce.
Well some of us are sick of even more threads defending him when nearly every week is seems domestically he watches his team mess up and doesn’t seem to know what to do about it.
 
You ignored the overall point.

We are beating a team with a much larger budget than us when we beat Celtic.

Why can teams with smaller budgets than us not beat us?

If we go by then logic that larger budgets should always mean success, then we should never beat Celtic or win any trophies.
Because our budget dwarfs the rest ar them.A player on 15k a week is at least in the same league level wise as 1 on 20k.We played a team on Sunday were at least 5 if not more of our players earn more a week than the St.Johnstone team combined. Will be the same most weeks.
So as I've already said I don't think it's unreasonable or unrealistic to say we should be dealing with these teams with ease bar the occasional off day.
 
There's a reason the job went to someone like Gerrard. I think people will be underwhelmed by who is going to take a manager's role with a limited budget and sky-high expectations vs. Celtic.

The new guy is on a hiding to nothing. And let's hope he doesn't falter in those early weeks of Europe...

Outside our bubble, people will view SG as doing a good job.

Plenty were underwhelmed with the appointment of Gerrard, plenty were excited. I was in both camps.

For; footballing icon, world class player in his day. He was the complete midfield player, leader, captain and inspiration. Exciting to see how he got on. I hated Liverpool, still do, but Steven Gerrard was a player I'd have had in my team every day of the week.

Against; never managed a team other than one season at under 18 level, rookie, no experience of coaching at professional level. That after McCall, Murty, Warburton, Caixinha and the mess of trying to get McInnes in, was a mental decision from a board of directors who are clueless when it come to dealing with the football side of the club - first team management especially.

I don't believe for one minute that Ross Wilson can't attract a better manager with a better CV than Steven Gerrard, when he eventually does go. It's certainly not going to be a McIness, Wright or Ross like what some of Gerrard biggest defenders come away with in order to back his stay up further. The same people who said sacking Warburton would be a disaster and we won't get better.

I don't see Ross Wilson agreeing to become Sporting Director with the ambition, contacts and knowledge he has to be told that it's bargain basement managers when Gerrard leaves. We haven't brought in Scoulding and Doyle to the scouting/player recruitment to find players for Jack Ross and James Bisgrove isn't on a mission to attract international commercial deals to then see his club appoint and absolute dumpling as manager.

I know and the majority of people realise its not going to be an Allegri, Pochettino, Mourinho, Benitez, Emery - even a ten Hag or Nagelsman. You can sit on here all day and name off many a manager only for people to question them. It's pointless, no one knows our budget, no one knows who were are going to target or what contacts and pull Ross Wilson has?

Alex Neil will be on our next list. Knows Scottish football, managed in Scotland, won promotion with Norwich to the English Premiership. Obviously struggled in the EPL and now doing a great job at Preston - he was linked the last time around and I know my opinion of him back then.

There are managers out of work; Flores, Gracia, Hughes, Jardim, Silva, Kovac, Hughton, van heazenbrouk, Schmidt, Letsch, Doll...

Solbakken, Thorup, Priske,
Philippe Clement, Rose, Petrescu... in work.

You can argue some aren't what we need, some are unrealistic, not good enough etc but end of the day, Gerrard will move on and Ross Wilson will have a list of replacements.

That on top of the club being in a better position on and off the park. A SD, a proper scouting network, youth system and many upgrades to the training facility. Managers would have seen the potential in Europe and the opportunity domestically.
 
When are people allowed to judge him?Just so we know?
We judge day by day and game to game, don’t we.
My question would be when do we give the final judgement.
The answer, for me, will be when we stop making tangible progress.
I’ve posted recently how I see the progress we’ve made in the two years he’s been here and am prepared to re-evaluate next season.
 
I don't believe for one minute that Ross Wilson can't attract a better manager with a better CV than Steven Gerrard, when he eventually does go. It's certainly not going to be a McIness, Wright or Ross like what some of Gerrard biggest defenders come away with in order to back his stay up further. The same people who said sacking Warburton would be a disaster and we won't get better.

I don't see Ross Wilson agreeing to become Sporting Director with the ambition, contacts and knowledge he has to be told that it's bargain basement managers when Gerrard leaves. We haven't brought in Scoulding and Doyle to the scouting/player recruitment to find players for Jack Ross and James Bisgrove isn't on a mission to attract international commercial deals to then see his club appoint and absolute dumpling as manager.

I know and the majority of people realise its not going to be an Allegri, Pochettino, Mourinho, Benitez, Emery - even a ten Hag or Nagelsman. You can sit on here all day and name off many a manager only for people to question them. It's pointless, no one knows our budget, no one knows who were are going to target or what contacts and pull Ross Wilson has?

Alex Neil will be on our next list. Knows Scottish football, managed in Scotland, won promotion with Norwich to the English Premiership. Obviously struggled in the EPL and now doing a great job at Preston - he was linked the last time around and I know my opinion of him back then.

There are managers out of work; Flores, Gracia, Hughes, Jardim, Silva, Kovac, Hughton, van heazenbrouk, Schmidt, Letsch, Doll...

Solbakken, Thorup, Priske,
Philippe Clement, Rose, Petrescu... in work.

You can argue some aren't what we need, some are unrealistic, not good enough etc but end of the day, Gerrard will move on and Ross Wilson will have a list of replacements.

A number of those background appointments were based on Gerrard being at Ibrox. Wilson turned us down previously. Bisgrove isn't selling the Club on Alex Neil. Of course they're unlikely to leave on SG's departure but their job suddenly gets a little harder.

The Club is being rebuilt, refashioned and rebranded. Gerrard's appointment was not solely for football reasons.

Do you think the Board would have taken a League Cup win over this Europa League run?

While we may be an attractive Club, we are not in attractive circumstances. That will encourage only a certain level of manager.
 
We judge day by day and game to game, don’t we.
My question would be when do we give the final judgement.
The answer, for me, will be when we stop making tangible progress.
I’ve posted recently how I see the progress we’ve made in the two years he’s been here and am prepared to re-evaluate next season.
Fair enough others like myself see the exact same issues as last season and nowhere further forward to dealing with them.
 
Plenty were underwhelmed with the appointment of Gerrard, plenty were excited. I was in both camps.

For; footballing icon, world class player in his day. He was the complete midfield player, leader, captain and inspiration. Exciting to see how he got on. I hated Liverpool, still do, but Steven Gerrard was a player I'd have had in my team every day of the week.

Against; never managed a team other than one season at under 18 level, rookie, no experience of coaching at professional level. That after McCall, Murty, Warburton, Caixinha and the mess of trying to get McInnes in, was a mental decision from a board of directors who are clueless when it come to dealing with the football side of the club - first team management especially.

I don't believe for one minute that Ross Wilson can't attract a better manager with a better CV than Steven Gerrard, when he eventually does go. It's certainly not going to be a McIness, Wright or Ross like what some of Gerrard biggest defenders come away with in order to back his stay up further. The same people who said sacking Warburton would be a disaster and we won't get better.

I don't see Ross Wilson agreeing to become Sporting Director with the ambition, contacts and knowledge he has to be told that it's bargain basement managers when Gerrard leaves. We haven't brought in Scoulding and Doyle to the scouting/player recruitment to find players for Jack Ross and James Bisgrove isn't on a mission to attract international commercial deals to then see his club appoint and absolute dumpling as manager.

I know and the majority of people realise its not going to be an Allegri, Pochettino, Mourinho, Benitez, Emery - even a ten Hag or Nagelsman. You can sit on here all day and name off many a manager only for people to question them. It's pointless, no one knows our budget, no one knows who were are going to target or what contacts and pull Ross Wilson has?

Alex Neil will be on our next list. Knows Scottish football, managed in Scotland, won promotion with Norwich to the English Premiership. Obviously struggled in the EPL and now doing a great job at Preston - he was linked the last time around and I know my opinion of him back then.

There are managers out of work; Flores, Gracia, Hughes, Jardim, Silva, Kovac, Hughton, van heazenbrouk, Schmidt, Letsch, Doll...

Solbakken, Thorup, Priske,
Philippe Clement, Rose, Petrescu... in work.

You can argue some aren't what we need, some are unrealistic, not good enough etc but end of the day, Gerrard will move on and Ross Wilson will have a list of replacements.
Good post, especially the money wasted since this board came in and the naivety of the managerial appointments made in their name.
Also this inane questioning by people wanting to know who would replace Gerrard, it’s February and potential targets would most likely still be in jobs and anyway it’s a pointless debate and a decision hopefully that will have nothing to do with this board and plenty to do with Ross Wilson.
 
Aribo and Hagi probably wouldn't have came here if Gerrard wasnt the manager so u have to take that into account as well.
 
So that‘d be a league cup in his first two seasons?
Was it the league cup success that won him a third term?
What about Wallace?
Similar two season achievement before landing the big one?
This is why I believe the manager deserves another season.
 
I don't want us to change the manager. I just want him to start learning. He's got an excellent football brain and he has an excellent winners mentality.

He can do it. He just needs to start adapting and learning. We won't win anything if he doesn't.
 
He absolutely was a gamble. He's improved us since his predecessor, notably in Europe. We are still trophyless at the moment and need further progression.

I'm not saying he should go now, yet do wonder how long he will allow himself or be allowed. IF we don't win the Scottish Cup this season or a trophy next season, then it's almost like stagnation.

A change of manager doesn't guarantee success, but a different manager brings something new.....as sometimes a manager can only take a group of players so far.
 
A number of those background appointments were based on Gerrard being at Ibrox. Wilson turned us down previously. Bisgrove isn't selling the Club on Alex Neil. Of course they're unlikely to leave on SG's departure but their job suddenly gets a little harder.

The Club is being rebuilt, refashioned and rebranded. Gerrard's appointment was not solely for football reasons.

Do you think the Board would have taken a League Cup win over this Europa League run?

While we may be an attractive Club, we are not in attractive circumstances. That will encourage only a certain level of manager.

Alex Neil wasn't a footballing great but he's done more in football management than what Gerrard has. I'm not suggesting Neil, I'm not in support of a bheggar but he will be some one we will probably be keeping an eye on as he's obviously got a bit about him.

No one on here knows what or who we can afford/attract so the comments about people not being able to name names to replace Gerrard are pointless. The support also don't due the due diligence on potential managers. We can all say, realistically, who we fancy and give an opinion as to why.

I'd imagine the board would take European football over a cup win but it's going to come to a point where trophies in the cabinet are more important. We can and should be able to do both as of now.
 
It's a joke the way some people are going on. They need to take a long hard look at themselves. It puts me off reading some threads after I've read the first few comments due to the shite they are talking. Gerrard has gave us some of the best games and results for years people have short memories.
so is slagging the supporters who pay good money follow following the team to Ibrox , Perth, Braga, Tynecastle, Rotterdam etc who the manager has had recent digs at, throwing certain players under the bus and certain golden boys keeping their places after 4 or 5 bad displays, you can't have undroppables in your squad, unless the deputy is injured or unavailable as it causes understandable unrest, Also stop talking about liverpooI all the time.. we get it. like 95% of the support I bought into the dream team, but let's be honest it's not been great has it he has learned virtually nothing in 19 months, I still want him to turn it round but I'm not sure he can, he says he talks to klopp he needs to talk more.
 
So that‘d be a league cup in his first two seasons?
Was it the league cup success that won him a third term?
What about Wallace?
Similar two season achievement before landing the big one?
This is why I believe the manager deserves another season.
He and the team also had to deal with a tragedy hopefully no Rangers manger or team has to ever deal with again.
That unfortunately has to be taken into account when talking about his success or lack of in terms of trophies.
 
I’ve got friends who want him gone as “two seasons and no trophies is failure at rangers”.


Keep them away from sharp tools mate.

When we were lighting our cigars wi £20’s or wiping our erse wi £50’s that might have been the case but when you look at what Gerrard has done in not much more than 18 months I think there’s plenty evidence that he’s the guy to take us forward. Making a knee jerk reactional change at this stage would be a sure fire way to make it another year wi nothing.
 
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