A letter from James Tavernier to the fanbase

Steve Snedden said:
I agree regarding context.

I simply believe we could have chosen a less controversial and therefore more inclusive way of expressing an anti-racist message and support for our BAME players because "the knee" has not yet been sufficiently decoupled from BLM /CRT et al.

I think we are in agreement regarding the objectives, we just have a different perspective on the strategy.
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On this forum 90% of the fans support the players. Pretty inclusive. The 10% can find another way to protest against our Rangers players.
 
El Capitan said:
It’s easy to say you oppose racism, but it’s a very different thing to actually listen and follow the lead of the impacted people (e.g. our Black players) on how to deal with it.

It’s a convenient excuse to hide behind a political argument. Truth is, the only people who relate what the players are doing to the political side of the BLM organisation are those looking for an excuse to be offended - like yourself.
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I agree with your points, but the issue here is ultimately with those who plan on booing. People can have valid reasons for not liking everything associated with the BLM movement. I have my own views, others should be respected. Those with issues, but who will not boo, are not the problem. Those that will boo, regardless of Goldson/Tav are the morons who really need to question their motives.
 
In Tav we trust. The political elements of Black Lives Matter can be debated - what cannot be is the commitment of our players, and if they want our support they'll have mine as long as they take the pitch. Also racism is the most pathetic thing ever. Basically grown men calling others names. Support the club, support our players and be a decent human being. Not too much to ask is it?
 
Gasoil said:
I believe the BLM movement started in 2013. I also believe Martin Luther King took the knee to protest about the discriminatory treatment of black people in Alabama in 1965. I support the gesture on the basis that it is an anti discrimination demonstration.
MLK is a hero of mine.
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Correct. An inspiration of a man. And why, despite being an atheist, I will always have a deep respect for those of faith. Much like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, another of my heroes.
 
Zwingli'sSausages said:
I agree with your points, but the issue here is ultimately with those who plan on booing. People can have valid reasons for not liking everything associated with the BLM movement. I have my own views, others should be respected. Those with issues, but who will not boo, are not the problem. Those that will boo, regardless of Goldson/Tav are the morons who really need to question their motives.
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I agree, the main issue is with those who will boo - they need a life ban from Ibrox.

I have no issue with people who disagree with the political aspects of the BLM organisation, in fact I disagree with a lot of it as well. What I do take issue with is people who continue to try and associate the players’ actions with this political side, despite our captain clarifying otherwise (as well as many others).

I have absolutely no authority to tell anyone how to tackle racism, but I will stand behind those who have been on the impacted by it. If they say this is the best gesture to get the message across, I, and I hope the vast majority, will be behind them 100%.
 
El Capitan said:
I agree, the main issue is with those who will boo - they need a life ban from Ibrox.

I have no issue with people who disagree with the political aspects of the BLM organisation, in fact I disagree with a lot of it as well. What I do take issue with is people who continue to try and associate the players’ actions with this political side, despite our captain clarifying otherwise (as well as many others).

I have absolutely no authority to tell anyone how to tackle racism, but I will stand behind those who have been on the impacted by it. If they say this is the best gesture to get the message across, I, and I hope the vast majority, will be behind them 100%.
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100%. Tav is only explaining again what Connor Goldson explained a year ago. It is very simple: you support the players in their stance against racism, or you don't. It really couldn't be clearer.
 
Zwingli'sSausages said:
Correct. An inspiration of a man. And why, despite being an atheist, I will always have a deep respect for those of faith. Much like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, another of my heroes.
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I too have massive respect MLK and the message he tried to convey. Not to fully derail the thread but I think that’s the problem many have with BLM(the movement).

MLK believed in judging a man by his character not by the colour of his skin. Which in my opinion is impossible to oppose without being racist and I agree with that sentiment fully.

BLM (the movement) view everything through the prism of race. Instead of wanting the colourblind community dreamed of by MLK they want you to be hyper focused on race, make adjustments to whomever you are speaking to based on race. That’s not how I was brought up. I was brought up as a “take people as you find them” type guy.

just to be clear I would not be booing our players for kneeling.

But there is enough nuance to the argument and enough space in between for people to disagree with the knee as a gesture without being racist.

Again to be clear if the players want to do it it up to them and I believe tav and goldson when they say what their intentions behind it is……and I support them in expressing themselves but again there is space in there to debate The actual gesture itself. Despite what many on this thread seem to suggest.
 
dekcuf said:
A team of legends, tomorrow let’s show them how much we love them.
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Nailed it mate. If you boo our team taking the knee then you are booing Rangers Football Club's modern legends. Think about the magnitude of that before you spew your bile all you dark age racists out there.

And while you're at it, I suggest you go and support Celtic F.C.
 
bpfurian said:
Are you being serious?
Care to offer up some proof of this uncomfortable truth you are implying exists amongst our support.
I would love to see it,feel free to post it as I'm sure it will be very educating and truthful,rather than just something that exists in your mind or untruths branded about by our enemies to vilify our club and fans.
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Have you looked in on Facebook?
 
Bluebear_73 said:
I too have massive respect MLK and the message he tried to convey. Not to fully derail the thread but I think that’s the problem many have with BLM(the movement).

MLK believed in judging a man by his character not by the colour of his skin. Which in my opinion is impossible to oppose without being racist and I agree with that sentiment fully.

BLM (the movement) view everything through the prism of race. Instead of wanting the colourblind community dreamed of by MLK they want you to be hyper focused on race, make adjustments to whomever you are speaking to based on race. That’s not how I was brought up. I was brought up as a “take people as you find them” type guy.

just to be clear I would not be booing our players for kneeling.

But there is enough nuance to the argument and enough space in between for people to disagree with the knee as a gesture without being racist.

Again to be clear if the players want to do it it up to them and I believe tav and goldson when they say what their intentions behind it is……and I support them in expressing themselves but again there is space in there to debate The actual gesture itself. Despite what many on this thread seem to suggest.
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Thing is though, that debate doesn’t need to, and shouldn’t happen on a football forum. Our only priority here should be supporting our team.
The message from the Captain has separated the act of kneeling by our players from any political connotations, so there really is no justifiable reason to disagree with our players doing what they feel is correct.
 
dt17 said:
Again, what good is that actually doing though? How is kneeling combatting racism?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here btw, I just think it's a completely empty gesture.

I don't think anyone with racist tendencies is going to change their ways because a group of footballers kneel for 5 seconds before a game.
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They possibly won’t, but this will raise awareness of how abhorrent they are. Maybe then they will learn.
 
I love rangers. I love our players and stand beside them in their stand against racism. Can't believe this needs said after what happened to one of our own last season.

I refuse to stand with any of these assholes who boo our players stand for equality. It's the 21st century ffs, these attitudes need to be eradicated from society. To lead in that area, our club needs to take decisive action.

Ban them, ban them all. No place for them in our family. Everyone anyone, except racists and bigots.
 
Black Lives Matter to many is a slogan, a hashtag and that's all. It's not a movement nor anything to do with politics. If you have issues with individuals who overstep their boundaries when talking apparently on behalf of BLM then just strip it back to the simple slogan. Surely you cannot disagree with that.
 
tazzabear said:
Because I don’t agree with the gesture?
If they want to use it for their message, if they feel they can justify it, that’s their decision.
I don’t need to agree with it.
I won’t be booing, I don’t agree with that either and strongly oppose it.
I’d just be much happier if the took up another way of demonstrating their anti racism views.
Like the club’s “everyone, anyone” campaign, for example.
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A white man telling a black man he would be happier if he chose another way at protesting against racism.

I'm embarrassed that the players had to convey this message to the fans.
 
I don’t agree with taking the knee simply because I don’t think it has achieved anything, nor do I think it will.

That said, I fully support any player who chooses to do so. Anyone who voices their opposition to the gesture is voicing their opposition to the message. Which then makes them part of the problem.

Such people do not belong in our stadium or our support. Tavernier’s letter is spot on. Support the players. Support the gesture. Support the message behind it, even if (like me) you fear it may not achieve much. If you can’t do that then leave and don’t come back - you won’t be missed.
 
Personally I do not agree with “taking the Knee”. That said I would not even consider booing a Rangers team
 
When Kamara was racially abused I don't think you could have found a single Ranger's fan who would not have quite happily given Kudela a swift kick in the nuggets and rightly so, why then do some 'fans' want to bring shame on us all by booing our players who are subjected to abuse by cowardly asswipes online. We honestly do have the greatest fans in the world it's time yet again to prove that and get behind each and every one of our players and give our team a clap when they take the knee.
 
The Barrel said:
I don't agree with it but he couldn't be clearer. They've stated what they hope from the fans, and what we do is respect their decision. Booing means you are not supporting the squad.
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Nailed it for me mate,I said on an earlier post the club should come out and explain to fans their stance,and who better than the captain,sums it up perfectly,I also don't agree with it but certainly wouldn't boo ANY Rangers player,anytime,well said captain T
 
Steve Snedden said:
It doesn't annoy me.

I've already said I think yesterday was a victory for the clubs engagement strategy via Fan/New Media.

I personally don't particularly like the gesture because it has connotations with a methodology that I believe is proving to be more hurtful than helpful for anti-racism cause.

Whilst I'm glad the club issued the letter, I think the fact that they had to makes the argument self-evident.
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Yeah its clear to see by your multiple diatribes that it doesnt annoy you
 
I think some folk forget that a section of our support do whatever the %^*& they want and don't bother with what the club or board/players say. I fully expect booing today, from that moronic section of idiots.
 
The Barrel said:
This ^^^
It's nothing to do with racism or being a racist. Our squad has asked us to respect it. The end.
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It does seem to be that simple to me, I really don't know why it isn't. We can agree to disagree on many subjects but this isn't one of them. Our captain and team wants to show unilateral support against racism, they are booing that not some political agenda.
 
Moreloslaces said:
I think some folk forget that a section of our support do whatever the %^*& they want and don't bother with what the club or board/players say. I fully expect booing today, from that moronic section of idiots.
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Yep.
How many times have the club pleaded with the support to calm down the party tunes at European games, yet we still saw some not give a single feck, do it anyway and end up with sections of the ground closed as a result.

It will very much be a minority but some people just don’t have much between the ears. Combine that with plenty of bevvy and thats the result.
 
Moreloslaces said:
I think some folk forget that a section of our support do whatever the %^*& they want and don't bother with what the club or board/players say. I fully expect booing today, from that moronic section of idiots.
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Hopefully the club are fly for this and Bowie will keep the tannoy blaring right up until the teams kick off . @Greg Marshall mught be worth dropping him a line to ensure he does this
 
RoofeIsOnFire said:
You disagree with a gesture against racism?

Strange thing to disagree with but at least you are honest
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Just this gesture.
Look, two things here.
Firstly, I’ve stated, on more than one occasion, I accept what the players, through Tavernier, say they are doing.
It just wouldn’t be, isn’t, my choice of anti racism gesture.
Secondly, just because I don’t agree with the players’ choice of gesture doesn’t make me a racist which I cannot help but infer from your, and other, posts.
 
Some 'fans' have been verbally abusing our own players on the pitch at Ibrox for years, they should also get their season tickets taken off them.

I remember hearing Josh Windass in particular getting lots of mindless abuse shouted at him at Ibrox from rangers fans. Shouting things like "Windass you're p1sh" etc

For some bizarre reason a lot of rangers 'fans' seem to have it in for Hagi, there will probably be lots of mindless abuse shouted at him too.

I imagine it will be the same 'fans' who regularly shout abuse at players who will be booing.
 
I do not agree with the BLM movement but I back our players & players from all clubs who wish to take a knee .
 
Billy_Boyce said:
"Sadly, at some stage during the season, every one of our BAME players received racist abuse online."

The single most important line in the whole letter

Anyone who has any objection to our players making their point has to have a serious word with themselves
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Read that line over and over again mate!some bears saying it's embarrassing that tav and the club had to do this,I suggested they do it the other day on the first post,I don't believe in TTK,but certainly would not boo any of our players doing it,and as its explained by tav ,I'd be up on my feet cheering and clapping,taking all the political agenda out of it,we are RANGERS and we support our players,whatever,maybe they should post the pic of our manager cuddling glen kamara after the slavia game,the most heartbreaking picture that brought to tears to my eyes and many of us,as most have said,if you don't agree,just stay silent,and support our players!
 
carlosapicella said:
Read that line over and over again mate!some bears saying it's embarrassing that tav and the club had to do this,I suggested they do it the other day on the first post,I don't believe in TTK,but certainly would not boo any of our players doing it,and as its explained by tav ,I'd be up on my feet cheering and clapping,taking all the political agenda out of it,we are RANGERS and we support our players,whatever,maybe they should post the pic of our manager cuddling glen kamara after the slavia game,the most heartbreaking picture that brought to tears to my eyes and many of us,as most have said,if you don't agree,just stay silent,and support our players!
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The irony for me in all this is we had mark walters the first ever Scottish premier division black player who suffered vile abuse at the hands of Celtic and hearts fans , we also signed a black player in 1918 as documented here -


www.skysports.com

Walter Tull: Rangers' first black player appears on Glasgow postbox

Tull, who played for Northampton Town, Tottenham and Rangers, was also the first-ever black soldier to serve in a regular British Army regiment and became the Armys first-ever black officer to command white troops
www.skysports.com www.skysports.com

We are not a racist club and 99.99% of our fans want absolutely nothing to do with racism of any kind . We are so sick of this tiny percentage of vocal morons ruining our clubs reputation on so many fronts .
 
tazzabear said:
Just this gesture.
Look, two things here.
Firstly, I’ve stated, on more than one occasion, I accept what the players, through Tavernier, say they are doing.
It just wouldn’t be, isn’t, my choice of anti racism gesture.
Secondly, just because I don’t agree with the players’ choice of gesture doesn’t make me a racist which I cannot help but infer from your, and other, posts.
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Not a pop a you directly but I don’t buy this “wouldn’t be my choice” type argument

The captain, our captain, has made it abundantly clear they see it as purely a gesture of anti racism, no more no less

If our black players feel like that, then you or my opinion as white males doesn’t matter a jot (making an assumption you are as I don’t know you but can probably tell from your opinion)

Those who boo today should be ejected and banned
 
The "life ban" chat is a waste of breath. It won't happen, and fundamentally can't happen. Booing the movement is not the same as being outwardly racist - although we all know that is what those booing from this point, where our captain has made it clear of his and our team's motives, are.

It absolutely sickens me that I have missed out on the ballot and some pathetic loser has been granted access and are wanting to boo our players after the last season. I look forward to the day that the Rangers support rids itself of this toxic element. I'm utterly astounded there's a debate on this topic.

James O'Brien covered the conversation well, I think

https://twitter.com/x/status/1402346699344027653
 
Maybe we should show the video footage of Mark Walters having bananas thrown at him at the piggery and Tynecastle and the footage of Kamara being called "a f@cking monkey" right before it, just to show those who want to boo why our players are doing it.
 
JSM said:
The "life ban" chat is a waste of breath. It won't happen, and fundamentally can't happen. Booing the movement is not the same as being outwardly racist - although we all know that is what those booing from this point, where our captain has made it clear of his and our team's motives, are.

It absolutely sickens me that I have missed out on the ballot and some pathetic loser has been granted access and are wanting to boo our players after the last season. I look forward to the day that the Rangers support rids itself of this toxic element. I'm utterly astounded there's a debate on this topic.

James O'Brien covered the conversation well, I think

https://twitter.com/x/status/1402346699344027653
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That clip is excellent. A perfect example of how ludicrous the mental gymnastics of those booing (and defending it) are. Truly hilarious.
 
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tazzabear said:
Just this gesture.
Look, two things here.
Firstly, I’ve stated, on more than one occasion, I accept what the players, through Tavernier, say they are doing.
It just wouldn’t be, isn’t, my choice of anti racism gesture.
Secondly, just because I don’t agree with the players’ choice of gesture doesn’t make me a racist which I cannot help but infer from your, and other, posts.
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What would be your choice of anti racism gesture?

You must have thought long and hard on this to have such a strong opinion that you dont like it
 
Raffles said:
Thing is though, that debate doesn’t need to, and shouldn’t happen on a football forum. Our only priority here should be supporting our team.
The message from the Captain has separated the act of kneeling by our players from any political connotations, so there really is no justifiable reason to disagree with our players doing what they feel is correct.
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I agree with a lot of this.

I would say that this debate should happen on the message boards though. Only way to discuss ideas and move forward as a society is to discuss and debate ideas. With lockdown a lot of folk have missed out on direct discussion to help them formulate thoughts. Forums such as this has probably helped to soften my position on this and many other subjects. Without these forums making people’s feelings known this potential for booing may have caught fans (and club officials) cold.

Tav has got out in front of the issue now which is a great thing. I 100% believe him and glad he has come out with the clarification.

My one concern is that at this stage you still can’t 100% separate the action from its other meanings no matter how well he articulates his thoughts. Please believe me when I say I’m loathe to use the analogy, but in the narrow scope I am using it for I’m convinced it holds up:

but a good few years ago when the idiots in our away support were doing “the red hand salutes” it was construed (rightly IMO) as nazi salutes. Regardless of how many times these supporters reiterated it was “red hand salutes” people exhorted them to bin it…you can’t separate it.

(Other than the narrow scope of simple gesture v connotations I am not comparing the two. in terms of strength of ill-feeling and dis-ease at gestures the salute is many magnitudes worse than the knee, but it’s somewhere on a spectrum.)

Some gestures are just problematic given their history. I believe the knee is far too intertwined with negative connotation for it to be the truly unifying anti racism gesture we all want it to be.
 
Bluebear_73 said:
I agree with a lot of this.

I would say that this debate should happen on the message boards though. Only way to discuss ideas and move forward as a society is to discuss and debate ideas. With lockdown a lot of folk have missed out on direct discussion to help them formulate thoughts. Forums such as this has probably helped to soften my position on this and many other subjects. Without these forums making people’s feelings known this potential for booing may have caught fans (and club officials) cold.

Tav has got out in front of the issue now which is a great thing. I 100% believe him and glad he has come out with the clarification.

My one concern is that at this stage you still can’t 100% separate the action from its other meanings no matter how well he articulates his thoughts. Please believe me when I say I’m loathe to use the analogy, but in the narrow scope I am using it for I’m convinced it holds up:

but a good few years ago when the idiots in our away support were doing “the red hand salutes” it was construed (rightly IMO) as nazi salutes. Regardless of how many times these supporters reiterated it was “red hand salutes” people exhorted them to bin it…you can’t separate it.

(Other than the narrow scope of simple gesture v connotations I am not comparing the two. in terms of strength of ill-feeling and dis-ease at gestures the salute is many magnitudes worse than the knee, but it’s somewhere on a spectrum.)

Some gestures are just problematic given their history. I believe the knee is far too intertwined with negative connotation for it to be the truly unifying anti racism gesture we all want it to be.
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Maybe the gesture is problematic in the wider context, however the wider context should not concern us in the here and now, as our Captain has clearly stated the reason that he and our team will be making the gesture.
It really is that simple for me.
 
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