A reason for 'Hun' not being seen as sectarian?

Northampton_Loyalist

Well-Known Member
I caught up with an old friend from Northampton on Facebook tonight and we were talking about the last few days and the difference in reporting. His thoughts are that the word 'Hun' is not seen as sectarian in the same way as '19th Century Terrorist' because it is more a general term for Rangers fans, used by absolutely everyone else, including people who would be termed as 'culturally Protestant'. He cited the abuse Jones took from Killie fans a good example and linked me some pictures from twitter of comments from their support, which were all 'Hun' this and 'hun' that. I would not imagine that a huge proportion of people using that language against him were anti-Protestant at all and were using it as an insult to a 'future Ranger player' rather than an insult to a 'Protestant Scot'.

The more I have thought about his point, the more it kind of makes sense and the more work it shows we need to do. The word is 100% used as a sectarian slur by scum, there is no way around it and the connotations that travel across the Irish sea are clear but when supporters of other clubs use it, I think they are almost certainly doing so without applying anything religious or political to it and most, going by the demographics of Scotland, are deeply offending people who are cultural and political brothers. It is simply their go to word of choice rather than something they believe us to be.

If he is right, and to be honest, it is making sense to me, then it goes a little way towards explaining why there is no equal condemnation by the general public for it's use. If the majority of folk see it as a simple insult, then reports about it are viewed as football banter rather than sectarian attacks and because the word 19th Century Terrorist is just blindly accepted as sectarian, regardless of context, a narrative is easy to construct that shows one side being victimised and the other not even having anything sectarian that CAN be used against them.

I would not know where to begin, but if he is close to right, we need to look at ways of bringing into the public eye the meaning behind the word, the links with NI and how it is used there, and the level of offence it can cause.

Not proof read or read back so quite likely to be a load of shite, absolutely steamboats!!!
 
Re-read the post and try to understand the message.
"the term Hun is now being aimed at a future Rangers player" whereas last year Jordan Jones was just a football player. 1 +1 = 2 .

Yes, which undermines what he is saying?

If the term "hun" is being used to describe JJ and it wasn't before, then it points to him being labelled this as a Rangers player only.

I'm not a Rangers player, but I have been called a hun, it's go nothing to do with what club a player is with and everything to do with what school he went to.
 
Hearts called the "mini-Huns" etc because some folk see them as the Protestant team in Edinburgh.

In Northern Ireland you can see slogans painted on walls saying "Kill All Huns" (or "KAH"). Trust me, it's not about Rangers players.
 
The Elephant in the room.

That mob don’t think they have a problem with sectarianism because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with calling someone an orange bastard or a hun.

Why should they? No one argues the point in Primary or Secondary School.

No one in the media challenges it.

Celtic Fc don’t condemn it, neither does the Roman Catholic Church.

Sectarianism lies squarely at the feet of Scotland’s Roman Catholics. They feed off it. They might even want it due to a sense of victim hood.

Some of them are even making a living off it.
 
The whole debate is tiresome.

There are bigger issues in the country at the moment than football fans being insulting.

Wish everyone would stop pretending they’re offended by being called a name.
 
The term is bigoted, sectarian, hate-filled and intolerant - and the worst part for me, is hearing other Rangers fans (jokingly) referring to themselves / eachother, as 'huns'. It's something I simply cannot get my head around - joking, or not.

No Rangers fan, should ever use the term to describe themselves or another.
 
Yes, which undermines what he is saying?

If the term "hun" is being used to describe JJ and it wasn't before, then it points to him being labelled this as a Rangers player only.

I'm not a Rangers player, but I have been called a hun, it's go nothing to do with what club a player is with and everything to do with what school he went to.

Which raises the actual point in the post: How many Killie fans do you think are rabid 19th Century Terrorist bastards (in the actual sense of the word)? You would have to guess that the answer is 'not many'. That would lead to the question of if most of them are culturally British and Protestant, why would they be using the word hun in the sectarian way? They probably would not, they would probably be using it as the go to word to describe a Rangers fan. If that is the case, we have a serious education job to do in order to get any kind of parity.
 
The whole debate is tiresome.

There are bigger issues in the country at the moment than football fans being insulting.

Wish everyone would stop pretending they’re offended by being called a name.


This is the world we live in and Hun is an offensive sectarian term
 
I caught up with an old friend from Northampton on Facebook tonight and we were talking about the last few days and the difference in reporting. His thoughts are that the word 'Hun' is not seen as sectarian in the same way as '19th Century Terrorist' because it is more a general term for Rangers fans, used by absolutely everyone else, including people who would be termed as 'culturally Protestant'. He cited the abuse Jones took from Killie fans a good example and linked me some pictures from twitter of comments from their support, which were all 'Hun' this and 'hun' that. I would not imagine that a huge proportion of people using that language against him were anti-Protestant at all and were using it as an insult to a 'future Ranger player' rather than an insult to a 'Protestant Scot'.

The more I have thought about his point, the more it kind of makes sense and the more work it shows we need to do. The word is 100% used as a sectarian slur by scum, there is no way around it and the connotations that travel across the Irish sea are clear but when supporters of other clubs use it, I think they are almost certainly doing so without applying anything religious or political to it and most, going by the demographics of Scotland, are deeply offending people who are cultural and political brothers. It is simply their go to word of choice rather than something they believe us to be.

If he is right, and to be honest, it is making sense to me, then it goes a little way towards explaining why there is no equal condemnation by the general public for it's use. If the majority of folk see it as a simple insult, then reports about it are viewed as football banter rather than sectarian attacks and because the word 19th Century Terrorist is just blindly accepted as sectarian, regardless of context, a narrative is easy to construct that shows one side being victimised and the other not even having anything sectarian that CAN be used against them.

I would not know where to begin, but if he is close to right, we need to look at ways of bringing into the public eye the meaning behind the word, the links with NI and how it is used there, and the level of offence it can cause.

Not proof read or read back so quite likely to be a load of shite, absolutely steamboats!!!
Yer mate must have little knowledge on the subject mate.
 
They have managed to make hun be seen and accepted as almost a nothing term so it's been ignored. Had there not been any abuse of then it would never have been mentioned again.

If it is used against us in games then the club needs to come out and highlight it so that it can't be ignored and brushed under the carpet. We've taken the stick and stones approach and just ignored it while they are offended by everything and we get pulled up at every opportunity. We've got msp's, first minister, BBC and print media shouting about anything we do.
 
The whole debate is tiresome.

There are bigger issues in the country at the moment than football fans being insulting.

Wish everyone would stop pretending they’re offended by being called a name.

Many moons ago (and about 4 boards ago) RWA and I had a good long chat about this on FF. We had slightly differing views but one thing we both agreed on 100%, and the conversation has stuck with me, is that neither of us was actually offended by anything a single one of them had to say about anything. At all. Ever. We were both angry that we could be called anything at all one of them cared to say and not a thing would be said about it, but we could end up in jail, not figuratively, literally in jail, for calling one of them a 19th Century Terrorist bastard. THAT offended us and I can't speak for him, but it certainly still offends me.

I do not go out looking to be offended. I do not give 2 shits what other people think of me, outside of a handful of folk. I hate that we are treated differently, that the standards we have to maintain simply not to be called anything from animals to nazis is significantly higher than they have to reach to be lauded as some kind of example and if I want to get pissed up and talk about it on a forum that is populated by people I share many values with and a good portion of my time, then I think that it should be acceptable, just as it is acceptable for you not to open and comment on threads that bore you.
 
Many moons ago (and about 4 boards ago) RWA had a good long chat about this on FF. We had slightly differing views but one thing we both agreed on 100%, and the conversation has stuck with me, is that neither of us was actually offended by anything a single one of them had to say about anything. At all. Ever. We were both angry that we could be called anything at all one of them cared to say and not a thing would be said about it, but we could end up in jail, not figuratively, literally in jail, for calling one of them a 19th Century Terrorist bastard. THAT offended us and I can't speak for him, but it certainly still offends me.

I do not go out looking to be offended. I do not give 2 shits what other people think of me, outside of a handful of folk. I hate that we are treated differently, that the standards we have to maintain simply not to be called anything from animals to nazis is significantly higher than they have to reach to be lauded as some kind of example and if I want to get pissed up and talk about it on a forum that is populated by people I share many values with and a good portion of my time, then I think that it should be acceptable, just as it is acceptable for you not to open and comment on threads that bore you.
I wasn’t saying the tread was tiresome - it’s the way the whole sectarian debate is played out by the media. They don’t care about ending sectarianism - they just see it as a way to have a go at us.
 
I think you have misunderstood. He and I are both well aware of the meaning behind it. Neither of us is convinced that the non Rangers, non celtic population is.
In Scotland they’re well aware of it and most of them don’t give a feck about it, it’s an agenda driven thing by the same set of placements who have convinced themselves they talk for the national.
 
It's the double standards, that's the point. The Beggars gladly call themselves 19th Century Terrorists, but heaven help anyone outside the tribe who does, and those heavens will come crashing down on your head. The "H" word is widely used in Northern Ireland by Republicans/Nationalists to describe the British community. It's already been deemed in a Scottish court over ten years ago to be sectarian. And if you, or I, object to it as sectarian, then that is exactly what it is. It's not up to anyone to define a meaning on someone else's behalf, although the Beggars (see previous) operate under a different set of rules. The "H" word IS sectarian, no matter what the pathetic fans of no-mark clubs in this country may think, and certainly not those who attend the Stadium of Secrets.
 
In Scotland they’re well aware of it and most of them don’t give a feck about it, it’s an agenda driven thing by the same set of placements who have convinced themselves they talk for the national.

I really do not see how they can know. The use of the word is absolutely widespread and it must be getting used by culturally protestant folk. Why would they use it if they knew?
 
I've heard poets going on about weddings and christening they were going to being held in a Hun church, I'm fairly certain they weren't talking about Ibrox.
 
'Hun' is used as a derogatory term in exactly the same way as '19th Century Terrorist' is used as a derogatory term. The only reason some people don't equate both terms, is because it doesn't suit their agenda. It's as simple as that.
 
I caught up with an old friend from Northampton on Facebook tonight and we were talking about the last few days and the difference in reporting. His thoughts are that the word 'Hun' is not seen as sectarian in the same way as '19th Century Terrorist' because it is more a general term for Rangers fans, used by absolutely everyone else, including people who would be termed as 'culturally Protestant'. He cited the abuse Jones took from Killie fans a good example and linked me some pictures from twitter of comments from their support, which were all 'Hun' this and 'hun' that. I would not imagine that a huge proportion of people using that language against him were anti-Protestant at all and were using it as an insult to a 'future Ranger player' rather than an insult to a 'Protestant Scot'.

The more I have thought about his point, the more it kind of makes sense and the more work it shows we need to do. The word is 100% used as a sectarian slur by scum, there is no way around it and the connotations that travel across the Irish sea are clear but when supporters of other clubs use it, I think they are almost certainly doing so without applying anything religious or political to it and most, going by the demographics of Scotland, are deeply offending people who are cultural and political brothers. It is simply their go to word of choice rather than something they believe us to be.

If he is right, and to be honest, it is making sense to me, then it goes a little way towards explaining why there is no equal condemnation by the general public for it's use. If the majority of folk see it as a simple insult, then reports about it are viewed as football banter rather than sectarian attacks and because the word 19th Century Terrorist is just blindly accepted as sectarian, regardless of context, a narrative is easy to construct that shows one side being victimised and the other not even having anything sectarian that CAN be used against them.

I would not know where to begin, but if he is close to right, we need to look at ways of bringing into the public eye the meaning behind the word, the links with NI and how it is used there, and the level of offence it can cause.

Not proof read or read back so quite likely to be a load of shite, absolutely steamboats!!!
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:seriously
 
I've heard poets going on about weddings and christening they were going to being held in a Hun church, I'm fairly certain they weren't talking about Ibrox.
Again, it is clear and obvious that THEY know what they are saying. That was not the point I was making. They use the word 100% as a sectarian term, no hint of a question at all and there should never be. They are not who I am talking about. I struggle to see a Dundee fan, CoS background, calling us huns and meaning it to be about the religious aspect at all. It absolutely does happen though.
 
They refer themselves as 19th Century Terrorists, a political reference to their terrorist leanings, nothing to do with their religion, as not all 19th Century Terrorists are Catholics. We refer them as 19th Century Terrorists then and it's classed as sectarian. Can someone direct me to the 19th Century Terrorist Church because there is none in Scotland or Ireland.
 
'Hun' is used as a derogatory term in exactly the same way as '19th Century Terrorist' is used as a derogatory term. The only reason some people don't equate both terms, is because it doesn't suit their agenda. It's as simple as that.


I was never in my life offended at being called a Hun as long as folk saying it were happy to be labelled a 19th Century Terrorist, this country really us going to the dogs when a bit of unsavoury name calling between two sets of football fans that hate each other is news headlines.
 
They refer themselves as 19th Century Terrorists, a political reference to their terrorist leanings, nothing to do with their religion, as not all 19th Century Terrorists are Catholics. We refer them as 19th Century Terrorists then and it's classed as sectarian. Can someone direct me to the 19th Century Terrorist Church because there is none in Scotland or Ireland.

Sectarianism does not have to mean anything religious.
Neither hun nor 19th Century Terrorist are derogatory religious terms.
 
Again, it is clear and obvious that THEY know what they are saying. That was not the point I was making. They use the word 100% as a sectarian term, no hint of a question at all and there should never be. They are not who I am talking about. I struggle to see a Dundee fan, CoS background, calling us huns and meaning it to be about the religious aspect at all. It absolutely does happen though.

I see where you are coming from now bud and get your point , this country is fucked up though, they can sing about being in a 19th Century Terrorist army yet get offended when we call them 19th Century Terrorists. Not one of our songs or Banners in over my 40 years of watching Rangers has us glorifying ourselves as Huns yet we've to accept it, bizarre.
 
I was never in my life offended at being called a Hun as long as folk saying it were happy to be labelled a 19th Century Terrorist, this country really us going to the dogs when a bit of unsavoury name calling between two sets of football fans that hate each other is news headlines.
Don't disagree. As I say, both terms should be treated equally by the perma-offended who want to make an issue out of it. If not, butt out. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of fans on either side of this and every other debate, are not offended in the slightest and would be perfectly happy to get on with giving as good as they get. That however, would not suit the attention seeking writers (can't call them journalists), politicians, bloggers and general hunks, who make a living out of this nonsense.
 
The whole debate is tiresome.

There are bigger issues in the country at the moment than football fans being insulting.

Wish everyone would stop pretending they’re offended by being called a name.
Sticks and stones
 
I was never in my life offended at being called a Hun as long as folk saying it were happy to be labelled a 19th Century Terrorist, this country really us going to the dogs when a bit of unsavoury name calling between two sets of football fans that hate each other is news headlines.
You are absolutely right. "I call you a bad name and you call me a bad name" has always been the accepted way. Some may dislike it but it worked.

I think when it all changed (although there are other factors) was when they got in touch with the Irish Embassy in London and the Irish Consulate in Edinburgh over the so-called famine song. That was a really ridiculous episode. What made it worse was that no one in the media called them out over it.

Add to that the empty headed Yessers blaming Rangers fans for ruining their petty independence plebiscite in 2014 and you get a perfect storm: Disaffected Plastic Paddies who think we ruined their past and disgruntled ScotNats who think we have ruined their future.

There are just too many snivelling, inadequate arseholes for a wee country like Scotland to deal with.
 
Context is key. Some use it as a sectarian slur, some use it as a general way to describe a Rangers fan.

I find it truly bizarre that some on here seem to refuse to acknowledge that the 2nd group exists. While Celtic fans refuse to acknowledge that the first group exists.
 
They have turned 19th Century Terrorist into a religious derogatory term now punishable by law, when it's clearly a political term.


It's clearly an insult used by the vast majority of Rangers fans to insult Celtic fans, I no doubt O first used the word 19th Century Terrorist during my early teens in the mid 80's and was meant to insult them.
 
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