Aberdeen turn down conference leauge invite

jimbear said:
A proper Reserve Team League is what is needed.
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Why did they do away with this?

Surely it's a happy medium where the current B Team players play against other B Teams, however if any first team players are returning from injury or need more minutes etc, they can also play.

You often hear ex players talking about how good it was as a learning experience.
 
iaatpies said:
Does it improve their youth development?

They managed to develop Calvin Ramsay without a B team. And they took Lewis Ferguson from Hamilton and made him a first team regular.
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Who knows if it would or not?

Ramsay and Ferguson is what, 1.5 players in 20 years? Surely a club like Aberdeen should be striving for a better success rate than that from their youth set-up? I'm not saying the conference leage approach would be a silver bullet approach for them, but it's clear a fresh approach to developing youth is not a bad idea in principle.
 
Theresa May said:
Who knows if it would or not?

Ramsay and Ferguson is what, 1.5 players in 20 years? Surely a club like Aberdeen should be striving for a better success rate than that from their youth set-up? I'm not saying the conference leage approach would be a silver bullet approach for them, but it's clear a fresh approach to developing youth is not a bad idea in principle.
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How many have we developed in the past 20 years?

Patterson. Gilmour and Wilson left for EPL clubs at a very young age. Beyond that we're going back to Hutton and Ferguson.

B teams will never address the underlying issues of what kind of coaching and access to football that kids have in their pre-teen and early teen years and the progression path that they have from 16 to 21. Ultimately if we're not going to give our kids a chance then whether it's Rangers B or loan stints in the Championship or the English lower leagues, Rangers aren't going to be developing a conveyor belt of talent.
 
iaatpies said:
And yet the evidence doesnt really support that. Players on loan at Championship sides aren't exactly proving themselves to be hot prospects.
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Yep, which is at least partly down to mismanagement at poorly run football clubs.

It's why we really need the B team to be allowed promotion. That way we can manage the players day to day at a level that will push them.

For the boys who aren't going to play for our forst team, it would give them a chance to show other teams that they can hold their own at that level too.

It would be best for Celtic and Hearts too, but I guess it would be at the cost of some of the small teams who attract a few hundred fans on a good week.
 
Ted Rangers said:
Yep, which is at least partly down to mismanagement at poorly run football clubs.

It's why we really need the B team to be allowed promotion. That way we can manage the players day to day at a level that will push them.

For the boys who aren't going to play for our forst team, it would give them a chance to show other teams that they can hold their own at that level too.

It would be best for Celtic and Hearts too, but I guess it would be at the cost of some of the small teams who attract a few hundred fans on a good week.
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Those players can do that by not signing for a B team as B squad filler and instead signing with a club where they'll get meaningful game time.
 
iaatpies said:
Those players can do that by not signing for a B team as B squad filler and instead signing with a club where they'll get meaningful game time.
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Everyone of them joins Rangers youth system thinking they will be good enough to play for the first team.

Realistically if you had the choice between Rangers youth academy or Airdrie youth setup, you'd pick Rangers.

In reality, very few of this countries best players come from our academy, or Celtic's.
 
Ted Rangers said:
Everyone of them joins Rangers youth system thinking they will be good enough to play for the first team.

Realistically if you had the choice between Rangers youth academy or Airdrie youth setup, you'd pick Rangers.

In reality, very few of this countries best players come from our academy, or Celtic's.
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Actually if I was a parent and had a kid who had a choice of youth systems then I'd advise against signing with Rangers. It's an area that the club has underperformed in for the past 25 years and more.
 
iaatpies said:
How many have we developed in the past 20 years?

Patterson. Gilmour and Wilson left for EPL clubs at a very young age. Beyond that we're going back to Hutton and Ferguson.

B teams will never address the underlying issues of what kind of coaching and access to football that kids have in their pre-teen and early teen years and the progression path that they have from 16 to 21. Ultimately if we're not going to give our kids a chance then whether it's Rangers B or loan stints in the Championship or the English lower leagues, Rangers aren't going to be developing a conveyor belt of talent.
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Hutton, Fleck, Wilson, Gilmour, Patterson (and to a lesser extent you could include both Lewis MacLeod and Leon King). So taking all of those, that's 7 in the last 20 years. Whilst not groundbreaking, it's still not a terrible return considering the context in which we operate - which is not exactly conducive to the blooding of youth every other week.

Aberdeen should be looking at bringing through at least that in the same time-frame, especially given they operate under significantly less pressure and have a very well thought of youth set-up.

Either way, as earlier, I'm not saying the B team approach is the utopian land of youth football in Scotland, however it does present a different environment for these young players at clubs such as Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United, where they can play against fully developed seasoned professionals, in front of actual crowds, for actual prizes. That could go a long way to addressing the lack of progression path from 16-21 that you cite above surely? The status quo isn't exactly presenting a positive case against it.
 
Let our young players play up to the second tier. It's a tin pot mentality to sacrifice our european and international player development prospects just so we can keep Ayr et al happy.
 
TheVandalorian said:
If that was the case they wouldn't have even bothered to mention the cost of it all.
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At the risk of splitting hairs here, what it probably reads as is "you've presented us with this idea which we think gives us no additional benefit to what we're doing already. And for that pleasure, we'd have to fork out an additional £400k? No thanks".

For what it's worth, I don't think it's a terrible idea in principle, but Aberdeen clearly do. So I can see why they would choose not to spend their already scarce funds on it.
 
I remember years ago when he had a Reserve League people used to slag it and say it was no use. Now we don't have it, folk want it back.
 
Fair play to them and the reason behind it

This new conference league isn't really needed but they open up the process that allows B team to to be promoted to the Championship then that should be far better
 
DKRangers said:
Why did they do away with this?

Surely it's a happy medium where the current B Team players play against other B Teams, however if any first team players are returning from injury or need more minutes etc, they can also play.

You often hear ex players talking about how good it was as a learning experience.
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They didn't get rid of it it's still on the go it's went from 18/19 teams to 10 now. Still same format as previous where they play each other once and then there's a cup competition as well where winner of the 2 groups go into a final.

We pulled out along with the tims due to teams not doing what they used to do fielding players who needed minutes instead fielding youth players that we had faced through the age groups. St Johnstone withdrew cause they couldn't afford it.
 
Khal Drogo said:
I suppose their thinking is with their location, they can loan players to Montrose, Brechin, Peterhead, Cove etc and get first team experience without creating their own B team

Well, that and not spending money
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True, but they have no control over whether those players get game time or not.
 
Aberdeen have raked in over £10 million in the last 3/4 years from players they either developed from kids (McKenna/ Ramsey) or brought in as teenagers and developed (Cosgrove/Ferguson). With Connor Barron likely to be next added to the list, it's pretty clear in that context why they're confident in their current development pathway.
 
GavCo said:
Bring back the reserve league!
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In an ideal world yes, but reserve league only makes sense if we go back to having 2 subs with a RGK on the bench, which is never going to happen.

Nowadays when 16 players get game time every week and your third and fourth choice keepers help with the warm up it would just be kids playing against kids rather thank kids playing alongside and against seasoned pros.
 
Shocking idea. Relegated effectively entire divisions to accommodate the B Teams on the basis of a bung.

The pyramid needs reformed, widened and proper promotion and relegation. That's it dead simple.

Player development is a seperate matter. Using loans more effectively and working partnerships to bring out the best in individuals.

Sadly B Teams are about greed from some smaller clubs and create a revenue stream to fund development. I understand it from a revenue stream and bringing them into the league needs either done properly or not at all.
 
“keen to explore other options such as a strategic partnership with another SPFL club, where expanding some of the loan regulations would be key to ensuring Aberdeen FC continues to be one of the best developers of young talent in the country.” Sounds like they want to take as many of shame fc loanees as they can.
 
I seen they did it as it would cost them around 400k?,surely young players having a competitive platform to play,could help a youth player making the step up to the 1st team saving them money,or other teams buying youth from them,so surely it’s an investment?,there di**s anyway,but it’s a shame for there youth players,do you not think that may deter young players from joining/ committing to them?
 
Fightforthebadge said:
I seen they did it as it would cost them around 400k?,surely young players having a competitive platform to play,could help a youth player making the step up to the 1st team saving them money,or other teams buying youth from them,so surely it’s an investment?,there di**s anyway,but it’s a shame for there youth players,do you not think that may deter young players from joining/ committing to them?
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They've sold players to Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Bologna in the last couple of years, I think that will be a stronger selling point to young talent than the chance to play in the Lowland League.
 
B teams work if they're at a high enough point in the pyramid, you can look across Europe to see evidence of that in multiple countries. I don't think we've seen anything in the past two season of the B team that playing in the fifth tier of Scotland is any better for them than an alternative, and the cost of relegating entire divisions to create this "conference league" is something I'm surprised Rangers see as worthwhile to be honest. Maybe they see it as a route into eventually playing in the top 4 divisions, but from the perspective of the clubs in those leagues I think that's a long way away personally.

B teams are also ultimately rendered useless if clubs in Scotland don't have a culture which endeavours to promote actually playing young players in the first team, which is something every club in this country is very poor at doing. I was a big proponent of them when we first pushed to have one, but with where they currently play in the pyramid I honestly think we'd be better following Aberdeen's lead and just patching the whole thing. The games programme we did a couple years ago, playing different teams across Europe etc seemed to be much better to me and I don't think it was coincidence our most successful youth product of the past ten years (Patterson) came out of playing as part of that programme.
 
Will this fifth tier have a split?

I don't want us anywhere near it if it doesn't have a split.

I have to know if the 7th placed team end up with more points than the sixth place team and how many times this has happened since 2006/07. End of the season just wouldn't be the same without it
 
www.pollokfc.com

Club Statement on proposed "Conference League" - Pollok Football Club

Having now received full details of the SFA’s plans for a new “Conference League” at Tier 5 of the Scottish football pyramid, Pollok FC wish to make it clear that we are totally opposed to this proposal. Whilst we accept the intent to improve the development pathway for footballers is sincere...
www.pollokfc.com www.pollokfc.com

Having now received full details of the SFA’s plans for a new “Conference League” at Tier 5 of the Scottish football pyramid, Pollok FC wish to make it clear that we are totally opposed to this proposal. Whilst we accept the intent to improve the development pathway for footballers is sincere, this proposal is not the solution.

We believe that this proposal would be to the detriment of the vast majority of the remaining 200+ clubs in the football pyramid and at the same time is highly unlikely to achieve its stated aims.

The main purpose of a football pyramid system is to allow its member clubs, through promotions and relegations, to progress towards a level at which they are competing more or less equitably, and this proposal completely undermines the integrity of that structure.

In recent years a significant number of non-SPFL clubs, including Pollok FC, have shown their commitment to the pyramid philosophy by pursuing and acquiring a SFA club licence. To do so they have developed and improved the facilities at their grounds, trained staff and implemented policies required to show that they are ready. This has taken a huge amount of work, mostly by unpaid volunteers, and has also cost considerable sums of money. To then have another League hurdle imposed is needlessly insensitive to those efforts.

We are more than ready, should we earn promotion, to move up from our current Tier 6 to compete at Tier 5 for another promotion to Tier 4 and League 2 of the SPFL, continuing to develop and improve our infrastructure as necessary along the way.

The proposal would place four Lowland League and two Highland League teams in the new Conference League, the criteria for this selection has not been specified, alongside four B teams. This is not an attractive proposition for the six “competing” teams who would receive £40,000 compensation for having to play almost half of their matches against ‘B’ teams of youngsters along with increased travel and fewer competitive rivalries. Also, depending on what positions the ‘B’ teams who cannot be promoted or relegated finish in at the end of the season, a non-B team in 5th place could find themselves in either a promotion or a relegation play-off. It is entirely possible that after a couple of seasons were the two Highland League teams to be relegated, this Conference League would look like the present Lowland League but with fewer teams.

Recently Aberdeen FC have said that they are not going to put a B team into this League and Rangers manager Michael Beale has said, “I don’t think the Lowland League is a good bridge, so we need to look at other games,” and yet the Conference League would look just like the Lowland League but smaller. Unless there is a hidden agenda, which may not be that well-hidden when the office bearers for the company behind this new League are taken into consideration, then on the face of it this proposal is without merit.

It is overtly the only option that does not require a vote that would be against the self-interests of the majority of SFA member clubs eligible to vote at the AGM on the 6th June. Because it is the only option is not good enough reason for it to become a reality.

Pollok FC is wholly opposed to the formation of this Conference League and although, as a recently licensed SFA member, we are not ourselves able to vote at the SFA AGM, we would urge as many other voting clubs as possible to reject the proposal.
 
Ngl if our b team can't get promoted its an utter waste of time. Relegated entire division for what purpose. Just let the b team get promotion like every other team once they earn it on merit.
 
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rangeral said:
www.pollokfc.com

Club Statement on proposed "Conference League" - Pollok Football Club

Having now received full details of the SFA’s plans for a new “Conference League” at Tier 5 of the Scottish football pyramid, Pollok FC wish to make it clear that we are totally opposed to this proposal. Whilst we accept the intent to improve the development pathway for footballers is sincere...
www.pollokfc.com www.pollokfc.com

Having now received full details of the SFA’s plans for a new “Conference League” at Tier 5 of the Scottish football pyramid, Pollok FC wish to make it clear that we are totally opposed to this proposal. Whilst we accept the intent to improve the development pathway for footballers is sincere, this proposal is not the solution.

We believe that this proposal would be to the detriment of the vast majority of the remaining 200+ clubs in the football pyramid and at the same time is highly unlikely to achieve its stated aims.

The main purpose of a football pyramid system is to allow its member clubs, through promotions and relegations, to progress towards a level at which they are competing more or less equitably, and this proposal completely undermines the integrity of that structure.

In recent years a significant number of non-SPFL clubs, including Pollok FC, have shown their commitment to the pyramid philosophy by pursuing and acquiring a SFA club licence. To do so they have developed and improved the facilities at their grounds, trained staff and implemented policies required to show that they are ready. This has taken a huge amount of work, mostly by unpaid volunteers, and has also cost considerable sums of money. To then have another League hurdle imposed is needlessly insensitive to those efforts.

We are more than ready, should we earn promotion, to move up from our current Tier 6 to compete at Tier 5 for another promotion to Tier 4 and League 2 of the SPFL, continuing to develop and improve our infrastructure as necessary along the way.

The proposal would place four Lowland League and two Highland League teams in the new Conference League, the criteria for this selection has not been specified, alongside four B teams. This is not an attractive proposition for the six “competing” teams who would receive £40,000 compensation for having to play almost half of their matches against ‘B’ teams of youngsters along with increased travel and fewer competitive rivalries. Also, depending on what positions the ‘B’ teams who cannot be promoted or relegated finish in at the end of the season, a non-B team in 5th place could find themselves in either a promotion or a relegation play-off. It is entirely possible that after a couple of seasons were the two Highland League teams to be relegated, this Conference League would look like the present Lowland League but with fewer teams.

Recently Aberdeen FC have said that they are not going to put a B team into this League and Rangers manager Michael Beale has said, “I don’t think the Lowland League is a good bridge, so we need to look at other games,” and yet the Conference League would look just like the Lowland League but smaller. Unless there is a hidden agenda, which may not be that well-hidden when the office bearers for the company behind this new League are taken into consideration, then on the face of it this proposal is without merit.

It is overtly the only option that does not require a vote that would be against the self-interests of the majority of SFA member clubs eligible to vote at the AGM on the 6th June. Because it is the only option is not good enough reason for it to become a reality.

Pollok FC is wholly opposed to the formation of this Conference League and although, as a recently licensed SFA member, we are not ourselves able to vote at the SFA AGM, we would urge as many other voting clubs as possible to reject the proposal.
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Agree with the statement from Pollok. The Conference league is a waste of time.

However, the current setup is a complete joke. And I don’t know why the likes of Pollok aren’t kicking up a fuss about it.

There should be three automatic relegation spots in the Lowland League, with an automatic promotion for the winners of the West, East and South of Scotland leagues.

There should then be an automatic relegation from League Two. And a playoff spot with 2nd in Lowland vs 9th in League Two.

You’d quickly see the divisions shaping up nicely.
 
iaatpies said:
Actually if I was a parent and had a kid who had a choice of youth systems then I'd advise against signing with Rangers. It's an area that the club has underperformed in for the past 25 years and more.
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I know of a massive Celtic supporting family that chose Rangers over Celtic for a 12 year old as the set up was better, I don't know how we compare to other clubs, I'd imagine he wouldn't have been short of offers.
 
Make the lower leagues bigger. Playing teams 4 times a season is brutal. 20 team leagues n play each other twice. Automatic promotion n relegation to/from bottom league will let ambitious teams progress thru the pyramid system
 
We should look to create a B team Atlantic league - test the theory and feasibility of such a league without the balls out approach of it being an official breakaway first team league.
 
Todd said:
Agree with the statement from Pollok. The Conference league is a waste of time.

However, the current setup is a complete joke. And I don’t know why the likes of Pollok aren’t kicking up a fuss about it.

There should be three automatic relegation spots in the Lowland League, with an automatic promotion for the winners of the West, East and South of Scotland leagues.

There should then be an automatic relegation from League Two. And a playoff spot with 2nd in Lowland vs 9th in League Two.

You’d quickly see the divisions shaping up nicely.
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We are! Iain Maxwell is tone deaf.

The only people the SFA seem to listen to are those who sling them some cash. Massively weighted to some vested interests in the Lower Leagues and commercially it's the driven from fear.

Wider pyramid reform needs to be on the agenda. Proper relegation, promotion and league restructuring with consistent divisions.

They really can't get beyond 4 Old Firms and keeping relegation minimal.
 
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