Aguero and Sian Massey Elliss

[Wazza]

This was why I actually started the thread. The woman who was on with Jim White was insinuating that very thing.

Perfect sort to get on for this topic and get people interested and wound up at the end of the day.

 

[RedWhiteBlue]

Shouldn't people be trying to keep this in context?
As in, it's a case of a player putting hands on a match official.
Too many daft analogies that are not really needed.

If Brown did this to an official on Saturday I'd say there'd be plenty on here who would be calling for a ban etc. Then you would have the counter balance of those who think it's no big deal and will say just ignore it. Pretty sure the media would ignore it.

At the end of the day it's up to the officials whether or not they feel this should have been a booking or sending off or whatever and they seem to have let it slide so what's the big deal?

The gender of the official is irrelevant and any points related to that can immediately be disregarded. As it's 2020 I'm sure Aguero could just come out and say he doesn't identify as a man and that would be the end of that. Or is gender only a factor when it suits?

 

[GovanFront4]

You've called it right, there - people equating this with sexual harassment or rape ARE lunatics. His actions legally don't constitute either of these, and some hardline feminists indulging in a spot of false equivalence shouldnt diminish the argument that his actions were more inappropriately because a woman was involved, in the same way that, for example, Paul Ince's actions in threatening to batter a fourth official he repeatedly called a "cnt" would have been worse had it been a woman.

I agree and disagree. In normal circumstances you should treat a woman with more respect, but on a football pitch when tensions are high they are speaking to them as an 'official' and not as your average woman.

It's a tough one, and I think players will learn from it, but some people are making up false equivalences which isn't helping reasonable discussion.

 

[Sheik Ma Shammy]

I can't believe this threads still going most people on this thread just seem to want to vent anger at each other, regardless of the topic.

 

[GarMckin]

Selective equality.

I don’t care about this and don’t think there’s anything really wrong here, but these kind of comments are the most common misunderstanding of equality.

Equality isn’t equality of treatment, it’s about equality of opportunity. You’ll struggle to find many proponents arguing it’s just treating everyone the same, that’s a common simplification of the goals, usually used by people arguing against it. It’s about creating an environment where everyone can achieve the same, regardless of their background. That absolutely means treating some people differently from others. People are different, treating everyone the same doesn’t make sense. In fact, one of the main criticisms of the idea is that it is inequitable, because it calls for treating people differently.

Would you say to a disabled person that there’s no need to install a ramp because equality is treating everyone the same and everyone else uses the stairs? No, you recognise that certain groups and individuals are disadvantaged or viewed differently and treat them different in order to achieve equality. In this case, even if Aguero was just treating her the same as a male ref(which I think he was), she isn’t the same as a male ref, so treating her the same would be wrong. If she has no problem with it then it’s really not an issue to take further. But, she would be within her rights to feel uncomfortable with it, as would any male ref.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

I agree and disagree. In normal circumstances you should treat a woman with more respect, but on a football pitch when tensions are high they are speaking to them as an 'official' and not as your average woman.

It's a tough one, and I think players will learn from it, but some people are making up false equivalences which isn't helping reasonable discussion.

What's interesting is that there are (as far as I can, and willing to be proven wrong), a lack of other examples of male players placing their hands on female referees. That's despite the linesman in question refereeing in England for the better part of ten years in a number of different leagues.

In fact, as far as I know, there are next to no examples of male players treating female officials as poorly as they do their male counterparts. That's surely an indication that footballers are themselves aware of how differently they should, and do, treat women on a football park.

This Aguero case rumbles on simply because it seems to be the first example of it happening. The ironic thing seems to me to be that it's such a big deal because he's the first one to have broken rank.

 

[GovanFront4]

What's interesting is that there are (as far as I can, and willing to be proven wrong), a lack of other examples of male players placing their hands on female referees. That's despite the linesman in question refereeing in England for the better part of ten years in a number of different leagues.

In fact, as far as I know, there are next to no examples of male players treating female officials as poorly as they do their male counterparts. That's surely an indication that footballers are themselves aware of how differently they should, and do, treat women on a football park.

This Aguero case rumbles on simply because it seems to be the first example of it happening. The ironic thing seems to me to be that it's such a big deal because he's the first one to have broken rank.

Touching referees is pretty rare, the percentage of woman referees is tiny. It's no real surprise that it's never happened before. That doesn't mean that Aguero was out of order because it was a woman. The outrage surrounding it is purely because people are looking to be upset on someone elses behalf as usual.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Touching referees is pretty rare, the percentage of woman referees is tiny. It's no real surprise that it's never happened before. That doesn't mean that Aguero was out of order because it was a woman. The outrage surrounding it is purely because people are looking to be upset on someone elses behalf as usual.

I'm not so sure it's not a real surprise - Sian Massey has been involved in top-flight men's football since 2009. I've no idea how many games that is, but if she's been involved in, let's say, 50 every season, that amounts to something close to 450 games, involving thousands and thousands of different men. That's quite an amount of games, quite an amount of men, and a real damning indictment of Aguero.