Aguero and Sian Massey Elliss

RickDagless said:
Id imagine if people were putting their hands on them when they shouldn't be they probably weren't best pleased.

Of course back then it was more of an issue for them to speak up. A time so many on here seem to yearn to return to.

These days, you can't even put your hand on a woman's neck uninvited without being asked not to. What's the world coming to, eh lads?
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Muddying the waters of what is and isn't appropriate contact with a woman is a bigger threat to the utopia you crave, than anything Agüero or anyone on here who has written it off as nothing is.
As ironic as that is.
 
RickDagless said:
Id imagine if people were putting their hands on them when they shouldn't be they probably weren't best pleased.

Of course back then it was more of an issue for them to speak up. A time so many on here seem to yearn to return to.

These days, you can't even put your hand on a woman's neck uninvited without being asked not to. What's the world coming to, eh lads?
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Putting their hands on them?
Where I was in the crowd I couldn't lift my hands we were crammed in that tight.
:)
 
MightyGersLand! said:
Muddying the waters of what is and isn't appropriate contact with a woman is a bigger threat to the utopia you crave, than anything Agüero or anyone on here who has written it off as nothing is.
As ironic as that is.
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To be clear.

At every point I've said Aguero didn't do much wrong, but he should probably keep his hands off of officials. Putting your hand on an official, male or female, is wrong.

Its the army of sad little men falling over each other to talk about how 'equality means its ok to touch women as you would men' that I can't be doing with.
 
RickDagless said:
Maybe run that past your missus again to validate you.
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Have to wonder what kind of trauma you must have suffered to be on a forum 500 days and only feel the need to eventually post, 25 messages of utter horse shit on a thread that should have had about 4 replies.

I'm sorry for whatever it is that happened to you.
But you've now gone full circle and somehow wish to attack my missus for having her own opinion and being able to converse with me like 2 normal human beings.
 
MightyGersLand! said:
Have to wonder what kind of trauma you must have suffered to be on a forum 500 days and only feel the need to eventually post, 25 messages of utter horse shit on a thread that should have had about 4 replies.

I'm sorry for whatever it is that happened to you.
But you've now gone full circle and somehow wish to attack my missus for having her own opinion and being able to converse with me like 2 normal human beings.
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I'm not attacking her.

She seems very real and definitely said the things you wrote down.

Definitely.
 
Opalescent said:
That's all well and good for Mr & Mrs Tactile here.

If you, or you're wife, have no problem with people inappropriately touching you in the way Aguero did to Sian Massey then fair enough.

However, that doesn't make it acceptable to go around touching or grabbing folk like that in the hope that they just won't mind...many people will. I certainly wouldn't like some random putting their hand on my neck, particularly so after having them shouting in my face.

You're argument is ridiculous, read again what you've written..."when I haven't been touched inappropriately". If it's inappropriate, why the hell would think it's OK to do it?

"Hey...I'm going to touch this person in an inappropriate manner, I hope they don't mind!"
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Did you miss the "..."? You can say inappropriately as many times as you want, but it has happened in football every week for over 100 years. And only this week is it inappropriate.
 
RickDagless said:
I'm not attacking her.

She seems very real and definitely said the things you wrote down.

Definitely.
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My Mrs has her own, non bitter, opinion, she must be made up.
You should seek mental help. (Before you say it, I have my weekly meeting with my female therapist *who may or may not exist* next Monday evening)
I'm not the person to deal with your fuckwittery though, so it's the ignore list for you sir.
I'll need to find some other way to drag myself down into 2020.
 
MightyGersLand! said:
My Mrs has her own, non bitter, opinion, she must be made up.
You should seek mental help. (Before you say it, I have my weekly meeting with my female therapist *who may or may not exist* next Monday evening)
I'm not the person to deal with your fuckwittery though, so it's the ignore list for you sir.
I'll need to find some other way to drag myself down into 2020.
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Best of luck mate, hope you feel better soon!
 
MightyGersLand! said:
Did you miss the "..."? You can say inappropriately as many times as you want, but it has happened in football every week for over 100 years. And only this week is it inappropriate.
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The point still stands.

Are you saying it's OK to just go around touching people like that, putting your hands on them like Aguero did?

Let's say you and I had an disagreement, you're not happy & shouting in my face. I decided that I didn't want to discuss any further and walked away. You then follow me to continue the berating and grab my neck pulling me back .

There's a very high chance that you'd find me pushing you off and escalating to a physical confrontation. I think most people, especially men, would do similar. Some might put you on your arse.

I'm not saying that there can't be physical contact at all, if there's a familiarity between you or it's a lighthearted situation then it would be easy to argue that certain physical contact is harmless.

This isn't one of them. You can actually see Sian Massey move in such a way as to indicate that the contact isn't welcome. That means it's inappropriate!
 
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Opalescent said:
The point still stands.

Are you saying it's OK to just go around touching people like that, putting your hands on them like Aguero did?

Let's say you and I had an disagreement, you're not happy & shouting in my face. I decided that I didn't want to discuss any further and walked away. You then follow me to continue the berating and grab my neck pulling me back .

There's a very high chance that you'd find me pushing you off and escalating to a physical confrontation. I think most people, especially men, would do similar. Some might put you on your arse.

I'm not saying that there can't be physical contact at all, if there's a familiarity between you or it's a lighthearted situation then it would be easy to argue that certain physical contact is harmless.

This isn't one of them. You can actually see Sian Massey flinch and move in such a way as to indicate that the contact isn't welcome. That means it's inappropriate!
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I didn't see any of that.
What I seen is a hand gently on a shoulder.
I didn't see spitting. Or roaring. I saw a sportsman trying to put a point across and resting his hand on the ref while making it.

I didn't see her "flinch", I saw her shrug and brush him off, and as he didn't have her in this imaginary vice like grip, it was done. She thought it was done. He accepted the conversation was done and everyone moved on.

If a guy in a pub was acting the dick, would I put a hand on his shoulder and say it's probably not worth the hassle and we should calm down and have a pint? Happens daily (not to me, but pubs up and down the land and far beyond). If I was the "aggresor" with my hand on the hard done by angry lad, I'd mostly end up offering the guy a drink and said situation calming down, most time he'd follow up with the round after (although there are some right tight bastards out there). People moving on.
Or maybe this micro aggression shit hasn't made it to my pub yet or any other pub I drink in.
 
OohAhHuistra said:
Out of curiosity it’s took you over a year to comment and arrive at this thread of them all haha.
It’s a nothing story imo but each to their own some of the reactions on this thread are mental
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I comment periodically on bits and bobs.

I made a fairly innocuous comment that men, as a rule, shouldn't put their hands on women. And more broadly, that they probably shouldn't touch officials at all in order to stop this debate.

And a small sect of the forum came out with their pitchforks, furious that their right to touch women whenever they wanted was under threat. Which is fair enough, if they want to live in the 70's then that's their right.

But if they want to quote me for attention, I'm happy to point out how mental they increasingly sound; arguing points that were never made, using words and phrases I don't really think a lot of them understand and generally being a bit horrible.

And for what its worth, you're spot on. It is a bit of a nothing story. It was the rush to defend someone who wasn't really being attacked that I found utterly compelling.
 
Just lucky she wasn't black or the world would be claiming he was a racist and wanting him sacked, then sky sports would be dedicating hours upon hours to the 'issue'
 
MightyGersLand! said:
What I seen is a hand gently on a shoulder.
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I think this statement gets to the heart of the discord between yourself and @RickDagless. Two humans can see the exact same event and come to completely different but valid conclusions based on their perceptual input.

I don't have any friendly answer for how the two of you can see eye to eye, but hopefully this helps you both understand a little bit about the other person's position.
 
Hinshelwood Bear said:
I think this statement gets to the heart of the discord between yourself and @RickDagless. Two humans can see the exact same event and come to completely different but valid conclusions based on their perceptual input.

I don't have any friendly answer for how the two of you can see eye to eye, but hopefully this helps you both understand a little bit about the other person's position.
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Yeah I think that's fair.

Apologies for going in a bit savage @MightyGersLand!, I can't help myself sometimes.
 
Opalescent said:
The point still stands.

Are you saying it's OK to just go around touching people like that, putting your hands on them like Aguero did?

Let's say you and I had an disagreement, you're not happy & shouting in my face. I decided that I didn't want to discuss any further and walked away. You then follow me to continue the berating and grab my neck pulling me back .

There's a very high chance that you'd find me pushing you off and escalating to a physical confrontation. I think most people, especially men, would do similar. Some might put you on your arse.

I'm not saying that there can't be physical contact at all, if there's a familiarity between you or it's a lighthearted situation then it would be easy to argue that certain physical contact is harmless.

This isn't one of them. You can actually see Sian Massey move in such a way as to indicate that the contact isn't welcome. That means it's inappropriate!
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What a load of utter bollocks :))
 
Cutty/Young said:
Aggressive and intended to intimidate o_O Absolutely lost for words, bet you're glad you never went to Ibrox just before the enclosure was seated at European games or against the mankies,football supporters also have a tendency even now to grab each other when the Gers score.

You never touch a girls arm,shoulder or get up close and personal at a nightclub trying to fire into birds ? If you pulled a bird before you snaked her,did you stand and ask permission, what about drunken party's or new years night,never put your hands on a girl/woman.

So you've never did any of the above and if you did,then you did it to be aggressive and intimidate women, that's what you're saying right ?

Guys in my football team put an arm round each other when one of them scores, If one of them get's injured one of them will throw an arm round his shoulder and ask if he's ok, player of the year dances at the end of the night all my players give each other a cuddle before heading home,even the new ones, nothing aggressive or intimidating about that and nothing more than a show of friendship.
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Stop changing the context to justify your clumsy attempts to get a girl.
The facts are she was at work and the rules say you are not to touch officials.
He did not "put his arm round her" he put his hand on the bottom of her neck - this is unprofessional at his level. Her gender is relevant because he wouldn't have done it in that way had it been a male official.
The way he holds her neck was to say come on little woman you got that call wrong, which she didn't.

The play had started again, throw in taken and he was stopping her doing her job.
 
MightyGersLand! said:
How are you working that one out?
Would be like me saying any woman who thinks he done something wrong is a prude and a virgin.
A ridiculous comment. As bat shit crazy as any other on the thread.
Only difference being you are deadly serious.

I don't think there's been a full day I've worked up until march this year when I haven't been "touched inappropriately" by males and females, gay or straight if this passes as worthy of a complaint.
If I seek 20 quid compo from them all I can retire a millionaire.

Have some of you ever been out the house as an adult?
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If you thought it inappropriate why do you accept it?
So because you do she has to?
 
Opalescent said:
The point still stands.

Are you saying it's OK to just go around touching people like that, putting your hands on them like Aguero did?

Let's say you and I had an disagreement, you're not happy & shouting in my face. I decided that I didn't want to discuss any further and walked away. You then follow me to continue the berating and grab my neck pulling me back .

There's a very high chance that you'd find me pushing you off and escalating to a physical confrontation. I think most people, especially men, would do similar. Some might put you on your arse.

I'm not saying that there can't be physical contact at all, if there's a familiarity between you or it's a lighthearted situation then it would be easy to argue that certain physical contact is harmless.

This isn't one of them. You can actually see Sian Massey move in such a way as to indicate that the contact isn't welcome. That means it's inappropriate!
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Spot on
 
Too many people missing the point that physical contactis normal in Latin countries

He'd be just as likely to do the same to a male linesman. It's part of his culture, not some attempt to force his masculinity onto a female
 
When I was a kid I remember a scene from a film or tv series based on the future where people didn’t have actual contact they took a pill each and touched the tip of fingers to procreate . It was done for comic effect I assume but we are actually fast approaching a life with social distancing the norm and people being horrified at any kind of touch from another human being where if they don’t find this pill soon, mankind will disappear .

Jesus Christ . Where is the common sense evaporated to ?
 
MightyGersLand! said:
If a guy in a pub was acting the dick, would I put a hand on his shoulder and say it's probably not worth the hassle and we should calm down and have a pint? Happens daily (not to me, but pubs up and down the land and far beyond). If I was the "aggresor" with my hand on the hard done by angry lad, I'd mostly end up offering the guy a drink and said situation calming down, most time he'd follow up with the round after (although there are some right tight bastards out there). People moving on.
Or maybe this micro aggression shit hasn't made it to my pub yet or any other pub I drink in.
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Furthermore, the situations you are referencing are things YOU would do.

You have already said that you have no issue with unsolicited & "inappropriate" physical contact.

My point is that not everyone would a) behave in that way by laying hands on someone, or b) react that way if being touched.
 
Aguero never exactly “manhandled” the official, nor was the physical contact sexually inappropriate or aggressive in nature.

If Aguero had done this to a male official - not a peep would’ve been said. Given it was a female official, there’s a huge deal made about it.

So are we going for gender equality or just when it suits?

Fair play to this official. Very professional and mature performances despite the awkward challenges faced in this generally cut-throat male environment.
 
Its-Sebo said:
Also, to suggest that a referee should never, ever be touched even in a friendly manner is simply wrong. They aren't gods ffs, it's a game of football.
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I’ve been reffing for over 20 years and they always teach us in our annual refresher courses to keep an arms length away from players. Sometimes emotions are running high and the last thing you want is to give a player an opportunity to swing an arm at you, etc. It is for the safety of the ref as well as the player.
 
Mexi said:
Too many people missing the point that physical contactis normal in Latin countries

He'd be just as likely to do the same to a male linesman. It's part of his culture, not some attempt to force his masculinity onto a female
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I seem to remember Luis Suarez using a similar excuse about a word he used that was normal in his country.

I wouldn't say that just because it's "normal" or part of his culture makes it acceptable here in the UK.

For what it's worth, I don't think Aguero should be sanctioned or disciplined but it should certainly be pointed out that what he did was unacceptable.
 
Opalescent said:
I seem to remember Luis Suarez using a similar excuse about a word he used that was normal in his country.

I wouldn't say that just because it's "normal" or part of his culture makes it acceptable here in the UK.

For what it's worth, I don't think Aguero should be sanctioned or disciplined but it should certainly be pointed out that what he did was unacceptable.
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So context isn't allowed anymore? Because Suarez made a racist comment, Aguero shouldn't touch a female linesman

As for your second sentence, it was done in the heat of the moment. I doubt he had time to assess the socio-political consequences of his action, it was done on instinct. That's the problem with "controversies" like this. It's created by people who have no understanding of what the situation is, they just want to rant on TV. None of the complainants have asked Massey her opinion
 
Mexi said:
So context isn't allowed anymore? Because Suarez made a racist comment, Aguero shouldn't touch a female linesman

As for your second sentence, it was done in the heat of the moment. I doubt he had time to assess the socio-political consequences of his action, it was done on instinct. That's the problem with "controversies" like this. It's created by people who have no understanding of what the situation is, they just want to rant on TV. None of the complainants have asked Massey her opinion
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What Suarez and Aguero did may well be seen as acceptable in South American or Latin countries, whereas here they're not. That's it...the two incidents are different, but you can't use culture as an excuse.

Sure, it was heat of the moment and he didn't stop to assess the socio-political consequences of his actions. It's been highlighted now so maybe next time he will stop before he puts his hands on someone.

That's the end of the matter as far as I'm concerned.

Massey has been a consummate professional both on and off the park. She's already said she wouldn't take it any further, given the question has been asked I assume that option was there.

Why would she want to put herself in the spotlight and inflame the situation.
 
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GovanFront4 said:
They are both touching the official. There was no sexual element to any of them.

This is a bit like that Simpsons episode where homer takes the candy from the babysitters arse and there is uproar about it with no one interested in facts.

"Your tears say more than real facts ever could"
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And the officials are of different genders, which is a point you missed. It doesn't have to have a sexual element to make it inappropriate.

It's not like that episode at all, either - the difference in the episode was the misinterpretation of an act for something else. Literally no one here is claiming that the touching was sexual in nature.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
And the officials are of different genders, which is a point you missed. It doesn't have to have a sexual element to make it inappropriate.

It's not like that episode at all, either - the difference in the episode was the misinterpretation of an act for something else. Literally no one here is claiming that the touching was sexual in nature.
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Lunatics on social media were comparing Agueros action to sexual harrasment and some were comparing it to rape. The whole issue is being turned in to a sexual act.

Touching officials should be a booking, but the fact it was a female should make absolutely zero difference.
 
It amazes me the admin find it acceptable that poster are throwing out comments insinuating posters on here are women haters and worse still women beaters but any mention of racism and the ban hammer is out.
Quite shocking double standards by the posters involved and those who pick who is fair game for attack on here and who isn't.
 
gers1978 said:
If the "victim" herself didn't complain, then end of story, everyone else can just do one.
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Simple as that really. What a fucking stupid episode this has been because somebody touched somebody else's shoulder for 0.8 of a second.

F*ck me.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Lunatics on social media were comparing Agueros action to sexual harrasment and some were comparing it to rape. The whole issue is being turned in to a sexual act.

Touching officials should be a booking, but the fact it was a female should make absolutely zero difference.
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This was why I actually started the thread. The woman who was on with Jim White was insinuating that very thing.:oops:
 
Opalescent said:
I seem to remember Luis Suarez using a similar excuse about a word he used that was normal in his country.

I wouldn't say that just because it's "normal" or part of his culture makes it acceptable here in the UK.

For what it's worth, I don't think Aguero should be sanctioned or disciplined but it should certainly be pointed out that what he did was unacceptable.
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you're right bloody foreigners coming over here and not adapting to the british way of life send them back i say
 
GovanFront4 said:
Lunatics on social media were comparing Agueros action to sexual harrasment and some were comparing it to rape. The whole issue is being turned in to a sexual act.

Touching officials should be a booking, but the fact it was a female should make absolutely zero difference.
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You've called it right, there - people equating this with sexual harassment or rape ARE lunatics. His actions legally don't constitute either of these, and some hardline feminists indulging in a spot of false equivalence shouldnt diminish the argument that his actions were more inappropriately because a woman was involved, in the same way that, for example, Paul Ince's actions in threatening to batter a fourth official he repeatedly called a "cnt" would have been worse had it been a woman.
 
The reaction is over the top but I don’t think he would have done it if it wasn’t a woman, he hasn’t before with any refs.
 
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