Alex Thomson, Channel 4, in Glasgow

The victims will be able to make claims under the tramps historic public liability policy. Whether their insurer will support/pay out on claims on behalf of the tramps is another issue given they knowingly re-employed scum like Torbett, I'm extremely doubtful they'll admit any liability, leaving the majority of any claims to be funded by the mentally challengeds.
Insurance companies are notorious tight with payouts, I had to take them to the insurance ombudsman to get them to pay me disturbance alowance. When my house got flooded, I can't see them just handing over millions to Celtic, for their historic sexual abuse claims.
 
no it doesn't, it proves the police work was a farce allowing vital evidence etc. to go by the way side

mcafferty was 100% considered a suspect was he indirectly involved? who knows because the whole thing was a cluster %^*&

very strange though that a young footballer is murdered by a paedophile and his own coach is later outed as one

just another area where a public enquiry is needed

Vital evidence ignored, just like vital evidence posted missing in other incidents. What a coincidence ? :rolleyes:
 
And the fact he was a Celtic youth player means he probably received lots of legitimate phonecalls from Celtic coaches.

If people really believe it's prudent to lump the Haggert case in with the paedophilia Celtic campaign then fair enough, go for it. IMO it's a major distraction that will do more harm than good.

You said " If a link to CFC was present, it would likely have been uncovered by the Police."

A link was present. Was uncovered by the police. Was investigated.

You don't think that the fairly recent discovery that said person was a prolific abuser justifies a further look into the case?

I doubt the family would see any search for truth as a major distraction.
 
There's not a fūcking chance in he'll they have insurance to pay for this.

"So, eh, aye, with regards to our public liability insurance, does that include cover for any payments we might have to make to boys who have been abused by the multiple paedophiles that work for us?"

Can't see it myself.
 
I note the CQN article stating that 'there's not much money involved' and suggesting that Celtic has insurance.

The first statement is suggestive that there could be a stage managed element to all of this. The second statement about insurance seems like nonsense. Can you insure against criminal behaviour of your employees? Are you insured if you knowingly allow a perpetrator back into the fold?

I am hoping the insurance comment does undermine the rest of that article.
Celtic have already paid out a 6 figure sum to a victim of their Paedophile Ring. Hardly not much money, add in the hundred of more victims claiming damages adds up to a huge amount of money. Which I doubt any insurance company will be paying for them. Their "2 year internal investigation" into historic abuse, would probably most likely to have been, to determine who pays the damages.
 
You said " If a link to CFC was present, it would likely have been uncovered by the Police."

A link was present. Was uncovered by the police. Was investigated.

You don't think that the fairly recent discovery that said person was a prolific abuser justifies a further look into the case?

I doubt the family would see any search for truth as a major distraction.
So you're saying that the Police have investigated links, yet no charges have been brought. But you think the police are wrong and CFC were involved?

Presumably you think you are better at investigating murders and paedophilia than the nation's police force.

Crack on then Kojak.
 
He’s got such a hard-on for our club. Wish he investigated other clubs with even 10% of the effort he applies to us.
 
Insurance companies are notorious tight with payouts, I had to take them to the insurance ombudsman to get them to pay me disturbance alowance. When my house got flooded, I can't see them just handing over millions to Celtic, for their historic sexual abuse claims.
I agree, insurers will use every avenue to avoid admitting liability in any type of claim. With specific regards to this & the current stance the tramps have taken - distancing themselves from it, the separate entity shite, no formal apology etc, I'm sure that'll be advice taken from insurers & the insurer's legal team.
 
So you're saying that the Police have investigated links, yet no charges have been brought. But you think the police are wrong and CFC were involved?

Presumably you think you are better at investigating murders and paedophilia than the nation's police force.

Crack on then Kojak.
The police investigation was incompetent, police Scotland ignored many glaring clues to try and pin the murder on the brothers.


The young lad was murdered by a known pedophile, who in turn had links to McCafferty who has admitted abusing children whilst employed by CFC.

Pedophiles tell other pedophiles which children are vulnerable, to simply write off a CFC link to this murder is doing the very same as police Scotland did at the time of the murder.

There was a pedophile ring at CFC for four decades and our very own "kojaks" didn't have a f()kin clue what was going on in front of their very eyes despite the dugs on the streets being aware of it, so you'll forgive me for not buying into the theory that they fully investigated this murder and all links to it.
 
The police investigation was incompetent, police Scotland ignored many glaring clues to try and pin the murder on the brothers.


The young lad was murdered by a known pedophile, who in turn had links to McCafferty who has admitted abusing children whilst employed by CFC.

Pedophiles tell other pedophiles which children are vulnerable, to simply write off a CFC link to this murder is doing the very same as police Scotland did at the time of the murder.

There was a pedophile ring at CFC for four decades and our very own "kojaks" didn't have a f()kin clue what was going on in front of their very eyes despite the dugs on the streets being aware of it, so you'll forgive me for not buying into the theory that they fully investigated this murder and all links to it.
Police Scotland weren't even an entity at the time of the murder. This murder was investigated
The police investigation was incompetent, police Scotland ignored many glaring clues to try and pin the murder on the brothers.


The young lad was murdered by a known pedophile, who in turn had links to McCafferty who has admitted abusing children whilst employed by CFC.

Pedophiles tell other pedophiles which children are vulnerable, to simply write off a CFC link to this murder is doing the very same as police Scotland did at the time of the murder.

There was a pedophile ring at CFC for four decades and our very own "kojaks" didn't have a f()kin clue what was going on in front of their very eyes despite the dugs on the streets being aware of it, so you'll forgive me for not buying into the theory that they fully investigated this murder and all links to it.
Police Scotland weren't even an entity when the murder happened, the investigation was conducted by Central Scotland Police.
The police investigation was incompetent, police Scotland ignored many glaring clues to try and pin the murder on the brothers.


The young lad was murdered by a known pedophile, who in turn had links to McCafferty who has admitted abusing children whilst employed by CFC.

Pedophiles tell other pedophiles which children are vulnerable, to simply write off a CFC link to this murder is doing the very same as police Scotland did at the time of the murder.

There was a pedophile ring at CFC for four decades and our very own "kojaks" didn't have a f()kin clue what was going on in front of their very eyes despite the dugs on the streets being aware of it, so you'll forgive me for not buying into the theory that they fully investigated this murder and all links to it.
Police Scotland weren't even an entity when you are claiming they jeopardised this investigation. This murder was investigated by Central Scotland Police.

I've no interest in discussing this with someone that doesn't have a grasp of the basic facts. I'm out. Have a good night my friend.
 
Given his position in the media is it likely he has been given some access to the contents of the documentary prior to it going to air?
This may be naive on my part but it may make sense for his own journalistic credentials to get ahead of the ball and start reporting on the systemic coverups and corruption?
 
Alex Thomson never came out of the woodwork for no reason during our years of trouble and I’m positive he’ll not be coming out of the woodwork this time for no reason. It’s a damage limitation exercise.
I really don't think you can limit damage on covering up child abuse for over 40 years. The public will be disgusted with them if the truth comes out.
 
Police Scotland weren't even an entity at the time of the murder. This murder was investigated
Police Scotland weren't even an entity when the murder happened, the investigation was conducted by Central Scotland Police.
Police Scotland weren't even an entity when you are claiming they jeopardised this investigation. This murder was investigated by Central Scotland Police.

I've no interest in discussing this with someone that doesn't have a grasp of the basic facts. I'm out. Have a good night my friend.
The fact is the police investigation was severely flawed, regardless of the name of the police body at the time.

The police at the time had McCafferty in the frame, I'm not suggesting that CFC were complicit in this young lads murder, however we now know a pedophile who knew Beattie was working at CFC at the time and was in frequent contact with the victim.


Maybe you should climb down from that high horse of yours and be a little more open to the fact that children were abused in plain sight of our police forces for over 40 years, it was common knowledge, some committed suicide from the experiences and others are now trying to get some closure. The fact this case was investigated at the time only proves we, eventually, got the perpetrator, however there will be so much more that has not been allowed to go public or ignored by the incompetents that initially investigated it.

Our authorities failed these children, we should all be demanding an independent inquiry into not only the abuse, but every conviction associated with it and expose the whole sorry mess that exists with Scottish society.
 
Police Scotland weren't even an entity at the time of the murder. This murder was investigated
Police Scotland weren't even an entity when the murder happened, the investigation was conducted by Central Scotland Police.
Police Scotland weren't even an entity when you are claiming they jeopardised this investigation. This murder was investigated by Central Scotland Police.

I've no interest in discussing this with someone that doesn't have a grasp of the basic facts. I'm out. Have a good night my friend.

When the Assistant chief constable's report on the CID role in this is considered too sensitive to be revealed to the family of the deceased there is something far wrong. I would like to hear your basic facts on this as I have followed this case from the moment the kid was discovered, who knows you may well have something I haven't seen or read on it.
Somehow I don't think you will be around much now as the defence of your position is absolute semantics, worthy of the fiends who commit and deflect the crimes themselves.
 
There isn’t any reason to trust this guy on the basis of his alliances (Greenslade, Haggerty, Ill Phil) or what he’s written in the past.

He took a sensationalist approach to Rangers‘ use of EBTs which lacked all balance or perspective*.


* He chopped a post of mine on his blog stating that 8 or 9 English clubs had used EBTs saying there was no proof. I gave him the link to a Telegraph article which confirmed this point but he didn’t want anything to interfere with his campaign.
Celtic used them too.
 
So you're saying that the Police have investigated links, yet no charges have been brought. But you think the police are wrong and CFC were involved?

Presumably you think you are better at investigating murders and paedophilia than the nation's police force.

Crack on then Kojak.

My replies to you aren't about what I think.

They were to fill in the gaps in your knowledge of the case, ie. the links to CFC that you deny are there.

"Mistakes were made by the Police no doubt. " These are your own words my friend.
 
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Police Scotland weren't even an entity at the time of the murder. This murder was investigated
Police Scotland weren't even an entity when the murder happened, the investigation was conducted by Central Scotland Police.
Police Scotland weren't even an entity when you are claiming they jeopardised this investigation. This murder was investigated by Central Scotland Police.

I've no interest in discussing this with someone that doesn't have a grasp of the basic facts. I'm out. Have a good night my friend.
It was me that simply asked the question if this would be looked at again. I'm fully aware of how sensitive this may be but from what I have read about this it is my belief that there could be more to it. If I have upset you then I do apologise but I don't believe it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the monsters involved with all the goings on are not involved in this case.
 
It was me that simply asked the question if this would be looked at again. I'm fully aware of how sensitive this may be but from what I have read about this it is my belief that there could be more to it. If I have upset you then I do apologise but I don't believe it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the monsters involved with all the goings on are not involved in this case.
No worries mate, and you haven't upset me, no apology needed.

I too am just expressing my beliefs re. possible connections. All good.
 
When the Assistant chief constable's report on the CID role in this is considered too sensitive to be revealed to the family of the deceased there is something far wrong. I would like to hear your basic facts on this as I have followed this case from the moment the kid was discovered, who knows you may well have something I haven't seen or read on it.
Somehow I don't think you will be around much now as the defence of your position is absolute semantics, worthy of the fiends who commit and deflect the crimes themselves.
I'm not following your logic as to why you think I won't be around much longer.

My position is I don't believe there was any involvement by CFC in this death. I am not stating facts, merely giving an opinion and stating I don't think it's helpful to link these unfounded accusations with the CSA cover up that clearly went on.

You are free to disagree with my opinion, but to try and suggest I'm somehow on a par with the people who commit these crimes is bang out of order.
 
I've read about the Haggert case and it is a horrible story. I think trying to connect it to the CSA at CFC is clutching at straws though. If the campaigners continue to suggest CFC are involved in this murder when there's no real proof, it could then cast doubt on the rest of the campaign that has legitimate links to CFC.

I understand why some people are looking for a link to the Haggert case, the very word 'murder' instantly grabs the attention of the reader, which is what everyone wants with the CFC scandal. Please remember though, this was a murder investigation in the mid 90s - If a link to CFC was present, it would likely have been uncovered by the Police.

From my point of view, there is so much evidence stacking up against CFC regarding CSA that they will struggle to refute most of it. The Haggert case however, is one that will be swatted aside with ease by the defence and will be used as evidence of a witch hunt against them with no credibility.

Let's not give them that open goal please.

I tend to agree with you that unless there is new irrefutable evidence in the Haggart case, then it could weaken the campaign to expose CSA and the incredible work that is being done by many.

However there ARE legitimate links between the Haggart Murder and CFC which simply must be looked at again - perhaps seperately or once the CSA campaign has borne positive results for the many victims.

I'm reposting below a summary of the key circumstances surrounding the Haggart murder and investigation, that I put on the big thread back in June.

//////////////////////////
Lawrence Haggart, 15, was attacked in the living room of his home on the night of 16th March 1996. He was bludgeoned and subjected to inhuman torture (including having his feet set on fire) and died from his injuries on 17th March. There were no signs of forced entry at the property.

Lawrence came through Celtic Boys Club and was signed by Tommy Burns as a Celtic F.C. Youth player. He was expected to sign senior terms the following December.

The lead up to the murder
  • Lawrence was coached by McCafferty (convicted paedophile) at Celtic Boys Club.
  • McCafferty was a regular visitor to the Haggart home and occasionally took Lawrence to football matches.
  • Around the time of the murder, McCafferty was subject of an investigation into allegations of indecency and growing rumours about his abuse of Celtic Boys Club players.
  • McCafferty phoned Lawrence’s house on the day of the murder.
The Investigation
  • Brian Beattie – a known local paedophile – was interviewed by police the day after the attack but ruled out as a suspect.
  • McCafferty was named as a suspect but was not pursued.
  • The home of Lawrence Haggart was searched by police 9 times between 17 March and 22 March and no murder weapon was found. On 22 March a detective searching the home ‘discovered’ a hammer in the kitchen (we are to believe that detectives failed to spot this during the 9 previous crime scene searches). This discovery supported a narrative being pushed by investigating officers that Lawrence’s younger brother Dennis had bludgeoned him and set him on fire through jealousy.
  • Some investigating officers were intent on framing Lawrence’s younger brother.
  • Lawrence had the number ‘110’ written on the palms of his hands and carved into his shoulder (likely done with a key). This has never been explained.
  • A few weeks after the murder, McCafferty left Celtic.
  • The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police. They had not been subjected to any detailed forensic examination.
  • 6 months after Lawrence’s murder, his dad Larry was furious at the lack of progress by police and vowed to ‘act alone’ to find out what happened.
  • On the first anniversary of Lawrence’s death, Detective Superintendent Joe Holden, who had recently taken charge of the case, said: "It is perfectly possible Lawrence knew his attacker, since there was no forced entry."
  • 19 months after the murder, police identified Brian Beattie as prime suspect. He was on remand for another, unconnected, offence at the time.
  • The case against Beattie depended on police evidence of Beattie confessing to the murder, however no confession was ever recorded and Beattie never signed confessions that had been written up by officers.
  • At Beattie’s trial, defence lawyer Mr Edgar Prais QC said "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the defence calls the police liars."
  • The defence alleged that Beattie was beaten while in custody.
  • The defence said it was strange that when Beattie supposedly confessed, no tape recording was made.
  • The defence discussed forensic tests that were carried out in Scotland and by the FBI in Washington - in all tests, Beattie was eliminated from any connection with the murder scene.
  • Beattie was convicted of Lawrence’s murder in May 1998.
  • Following the conviction of Beattie, Assistant Chief Constable James Mackay was ordered to investigate the CID's conduct during the investigation.
  • For seven years, Mackay’s report was kept hidden – not even Lawrence Haggart’s family were allowed to see it. Lawrence's father Larry said: "We will not be told the outcome, which is shocking. "It's all cloak and dagger stuff. They don't want us to know what went on."
  • However, seven years after the report was hidden, FOI came into existence. Author Russell Findlay submitted a FOI request with the blessing of Lawrence’s dad Larry.
  • The report revealed that officers who has searched the house 9 times prior to 22 March were adamant there had been no hammer at the scene.
  • The report lists a catalogue of errors made by investigating officers, including: faking entries in an official diary of the murder inquiry; contaminating the crime scene; destroying evidence; losing a possible murder weapon.
  • The report concluded that the conduct of some officers was “allegedly criminal”.
  • The report criticised the inquiry head DS Jim Winning for not pursuing McCafferty as a suspect.
  • Not a single newspaper or broadcaster followed up the damning contents of the Mackay report.
  • Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
  • Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
  • In January 1999, Beattie launched an appeal against his conviction. Beattie alleged the judge allowed certain evidence that was inadmissible. He also claims Lord Dawson misdirected the jury in his summing-up at the end of the four-week trial. Beattie's solicitor said the grounds for appeal included "information that was brought to our attention after the trial".
  • Beattie’s appeal was rejected. Following the appeal, the Lord Justice General, Lord Cullen, who heard the appeal with Lord Hamilton and Lady Cosgrove, said they had reservations over Lord Dawson's treatment of the police evidence during Beattie’s trial. However, no action was taken.
  • Over 20 years later, Beattie still claims he is innocent of Lawrence’s murder.
I’ve read a bit about Beattie’s background and there is no question he is a depraved beast of the worst kind. He had previous for breaking into the homes of teenage boys and assaulting them. But something is rank rotten with the whole Lawrence Haggart case. Given what is now known about McCafferty, there is clear cause for investigating what his involvement was, who else was involved, and which positions of power are implicated.
//////////////////////////

d_s.
 
  • Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
    [*]Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
    [*]
aye there's nothing to see here, move along
 
I've read about the Haggert case and it is a horrible story. I think trying to connect it to the CSA at CFC is clutching at straws though. If the campaigners continue to suggest CFC are involved in this murder when there's no real proof, it could then cast doubt on the rest of the campaign that has legitimate links to CFC.

I understand why some people are looking for a link to the Haggert case, the very word 'murder' instantly grabs the attention of the reader, which is what everyone wants with the CFC scandal. Please remember though, this was a murder investigation in the mid 90s - If a link to CFC was present, it would likely have been uncovered by the Police.

From my point of view, there is so much evidence stacking up against CFC regarding CSA that they will struggle to refute most of it. The Haggert case however, is one that will be swatted aside with ease by the defence and will be used as evidence of a witch hunt against them with no credibility.

Let's not give them that open goal please.
Had a look at the haggarty case myself after seeing it brought up on this forum, some of what I read online is pretty questionable. Like the crime scene being tampered with. Not sure how true this is but it sounds very very suspicious
 
I'm not following your logic as to why you think I won't be around much longer.

My position is I don't believe there was any involvement by CFC in this death. I am not stating facts, merely giving an opinion and stating I don't think it's helpful to link these unfounded accusations with the CSA cover up that clearly went on.

You are free to disagree with my opinion, but to try and suggest I'm somehow on a par with the people who commit these crimes is bang out of order.

Fair play to you you did return, however you haven't addressed my point that you flippantly discarded legitimate posts by casually citing that other posters content was to your mind "not grasping the basic facts" as "Police Scotland weren't even an entity at the time of the murder".

A simple mistake of referring to the naming of the investigating Police force looks very much to be deflection on a technicality to avoid discussing an uneasy point made. Please refer back to your post, you did this not once but three times.
This is what we have all witnessed in the past from those who willingly stifle and derail any debate on these matters.
 
It will be a puff piece that looks favourably on the separate entity that is CFC but will somehow manage to drag us into it, don't hold out hope for anything scathing or truly in depth.
 
Celtic have already paid out a 6 figure sum to a victim of their Paedophile Ring. Hardly not much money, add in the hundred of more victims claiming damages adds up to a huge amount of money. Which I doubt any insurance company will be paying for them. Their "2 year internal investigation" into historic abuse, would probably most likely to have been, to determine who pays the damages.

None of the victims / families of victims were interviewed as far as is known, so that supports your comment.
 
Fair play to you you did return, however you haven't addressed my point that you flippantly discarded legitimate posts by casually citing that other posters content was to your mind "not grasping the basic facts" as "Police Scotland weren't even an entity at the time of the murder".

A simple mistake of referring to the naming of the investigating Police force looks very much to be deflection on a technicality to avoid discussing an uneasy point made. Please refer back to your post, you did this not once but three times.
This is what we have all witnessed in the past from those who willingly stifle and derail any debate on these matters.
It's my opinion that if you're going to discuss corruption within an organisation, it detracts from your credibility if you can't get the name of the organisation correct.

Please tell me - Why do you think I'm trying to derail and stifle the debate? It sounds like you're again trying to accuse me of being some sort of paedo apologist. All because I'm looking at this objectively and not willing to claim a conspiracy with no evidence. It's lazy on your part.

Look at my original post again - I don't think it helps the campaign for an inquiry into the CSA at CFC by citing nothing more than a conspiracy theory as part of it. My concern there is obviously for the success of the campaign, I don't know why you can't see that.

I think the thread has now been derailed somewhat but I felt it was a valid point to make, which I didn't think would spark the level of your reaction.
 
For those that do not know or don’t follow the other thread, it’s no secret that Thompson’s solicitors are representing alleged victims of Neely and Dunn. This was also reported in the media last year.
 
For those that do not know or don’t follow the other thread, it’s no secret that Thompson’s solicitors are representing alleged victims of Neely and Dunn. This was also reported in the media last year.
I know you'll agree that all victims deserve justice. Is their involvement with Thompson part of some sort of a class action? Don't like the idea of the club being linked to them by this association. How has the club reacted to the accusations?
 
I very much doubt that.

Wouldn't bet against it.

Celtic current board come out with a big piece about their '2 year investigation'. Apologise for actions of previous board etc and compensate victims...meanwhile insisting it has nothing to do with them presently and they're the good guys.
 
Thomson will not specifically go after the Peasants, despite numerous paedos already convicted from that horrific entity posing as a football club.
 
I know you'll agree that all victims deserve justice. Is their involvement with Thompson part of some sort of a class action? Don't like the idea of the club being linked to them by this association. How has the club reacted to the accusations?
Like I said it was all reported in the media last year and can be easily found on any search engine reference Neely and Dunn.
 
Wouldn't bet against it.

Celtic current board come out with a big piece about their '2 year investigation'. Apologise for actions of previous board etc and compensate victims...meanwhile insisting it has nothing to do with them presently and they're the good guys.
2 year investigation where no victims or families were contacted? Not really an investigation is it?
 
It's my opinion that if you're going to discuss corruption within an organisation, it detracts from your credibility if you can't get the name of the organisation correct.

Please tell me - Why do you think I'm trying to derail and stifle the debate? It sounds like you're again trying to accuse me of being some sort of paedo apologist. All because I'm looking at this objectively and not willing to claim a conspiracy with no evidence. It's lazy on your part.

Look at my original post again - I don't think it helps the campaign for an inquiry into the CSA at CFC by citing nothing more than a conspiracy theory as part of it. My concern there is obviously for the success of the campaign, I don't know why you can't see that.

I think the thread has now been derailed somewhat but I felt it was a valid point to make, which I didn't think would spark the level of your reaction.
If we are going to be pedantic, then Police Scotland is the name of the organisation that would need to be investigated now, however this is far too serious a subject to trivialise.

The case requires to be reopened, the investigation was a sham, there is a link to a CFC employee through McCafferty who has now admitted to some of his crimes and the fact the boy played for CBC where we know children were abused, no one is suggesting that CFC were complicit in this murder, however they had several pedophiles working in and around young boys at the time and for decades before that, some were known abusers that they re-employed.
Victims are asking questions about this case, you should be to.
 
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