Andy Gray - “I’m not a fan of Morelos. He’s unreliable in big games"

I like Andy Gray, he's never slow to nail his colours to the mast. Disagree with him here but he's entitled to his opinion.
I'm a big fan of Andy,a genuine bluenose,and I don't see anything that's inaccurate in the story.i would love Morelos to stay and prove the media critics wrong.unfortunately I've a nagging doubt he can't/won't change
 
Do you honestly think that because Sutton or Hartson say Tierney is worth £30-40m then interested clubs are going to go on what they say? Do you not think it’s more a case of Lawwell playing hardball and playing the game right by putting a bigger valuation on players in proportion to the money being splashed about in the EPL?

I think media hype plays its part, yes, 100%
 
No, no it isn't.

Football clubs don't pay what they pay for players on the premise of what Andy Gray says, articles in the Daily Record or because of what people post on a forum

So the power of the media is not a thing in your opinion?

Of course it is.
 
People thinking that what the media up here print about a player actually effects their transfer value is full on bonkers.

These EPL clubs have extensive scouting networks, any players they bid for will have been watched several times live and many more times on video. Combine that with who they are buying from, ie does the selling club need the money? If so then the value goes down, if not and they don’t want to sell them it goes up.

What the Daily Record and their like print have no bearing whatsoever on any value.
 
So the power of the media is not a thing in your opinion?

Of course it is.

Aye, FF and The Daily Record definitely dictate transfer fees, totally.... that's a thing that happens.

Aston Villa totally bought Cuellar because of what broadfootsbawsack once said on FF
 
People thinking that what the media up here print about a player actually effects their transfer value is full on bonkers.

These EPL clubs have extensive scouting networks, any players they bid for will have been watched several times live and many more times on video. Combine that with who they are buying from, ie does the selling club need the money? If so then the value goes down, if not and they don’t want to sell them it goes up.

What the Daily Record and their like print have no bearing whatsoever on any value.

True but it cant be a bad thing to have ex players on live tv games saying this player or that player has been superb all season.

If you dont think the media influence opinions just look at what happened to Rangers recently or any of the ref threads on here where our own fans are desperate to defend guys that go out to cause the club problems and manipulate results.
 
Aye, FF and The Daily Record definitely dictate transfer fees, totally.... that's a thing that happens.

Aston Villa totally bought Cuellar because of what broadfootsbawsack once said on FF


I didn’t say they dictate it though did I? I said that media hype is influential, because it is.
 
I didn’t say they dictate it though did I? I said that media hype is influential, because it is.

Oh aye course it is aye....teams in England only ever buy a player after cross referencing the Evening Times.....no doubt about that..... that's totally a thing.
 
Surely Harry Maguire costing £100m by the time he moves goes to prove media hype plays a part, especially when it comes to homegrown players?
 
Can't really argue too much with this. He is unreliable in big games but hopefully this will change as its a massive flaw in his game
 
As much as you have a point you've nailed it at the bottom.
Scouting is so advanced now a days all positive and negative news feeds will be taken into account.
Do the selling club rate a player.
Is he a troublemaker.
Is he a valuable asset.
What they supposedly rate him at, what others believe he'd be sold for.
It will all be analysed.

Reading from 100 sources that Celtic won't sell Tierney for less than 40 million will have influence and reading from 50 sources that we'd be happy to get rid for 6 to 10 million isn't going to do us any favours.

Are there 50 articles saying we’d be happy to sell for 6 to 10 million? I suspect you’ve over-egged that to for the argument.

It’s a well constructed case but you’re over estimating the importance of media analysis IMO. His petulance on the pitch isn’t a matter for conjecture and punditry, you just need a highlight reel.

Where you may have a point is we don’t have enough people saying he’s been unfairly targeted on the pitch and he’s referred to a different standard. But maybe that’s because it’s not a very strong point to make. Clubs will quite correctly draw the conclusion the lad has not learnt from that and modified his behaviour.

If there’s 50 articles that say Alfie is harshly refereed and is more sinned against than sinner, the scout from West Ham then goes and looks at the videos of the yellow and red cards. Does he like what he sees in that regard? Does he see a lad capable of screwing the nut?
 
Can't really argue too much with this. He is unreliable in big games but hopefully this will change as its a massive flaw in his game
Aye apart from all the goals hes scored in the Europa League and against Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts and Kilmarnock hes really unreliable.

What people mean is he hasnt scored against Celtc yet.
 
I really don’t see a lot wrong with what he’s said to be honest

The game at Ibrox in December I felt Morelos was superb and bullied their defence. Other than that though he hasn’t really showed up against them. He has however scored a fair few against your sheep, Hibs etc.

At the weekend granted it was only a friendly but Morelos on 2 separate occasions had a go at Madden and had it been a competitive game I’ve no doubt he’d have been carded for one of them. Again, it seems like he’s still going to get into bother for mouthing off at refs as he clearly hasn’t learned from last season and personally I don’t think he ever will whilst playing for us.

But if we got offered £15m I’d have to agree with Andy Gray, we should take it.

Providing Defoe doesn’t get a serious injury, I’m confident he’d hit 30 goals if played every week.

I read that article as quite complimentary.
 
TLB said publicly that Tierney was injured and that doesn't seem to have stopped Arsenal upping their offer for him so I don't see how Andy Gray giving an interview in the Daily Record is going to affect the valuation of Morelos.
There's a massive difference between a current manager of the team stating a "fact" that Tierney is injured at the moment but it hasn't stopped the Scottish media overacting in the PR dept and bigging all their players for inflated transfer fees. If you read my post again, you will see I was referring to ex employees of their club promoting players even though some are shit. On the other hand, we have the Boyds, Ferguson, Raes of this world, not slow in printing complete negativity. Amazing how they have succeeded where we have failed in the sell in market. Lennon quote doesn't even come into the debate
 
Media hype is an ingredient , is it a major player , probably not.

The real issue is the fact that it happens in Scotland but only concerning one club.

Whilst endless articles destroying one of our players are to be had almost every week.

We are still in pre season and the Morelos juggernaut is already rolling.

The hyperbole surrounding that mob in the media is off the chart.
 
There's a massive difference between a current manager of the team stating a "fact" that Tierney is injured at the moment but it hasn't stopped the Scottish media overacting in the PR dept and bigging all their players for inflated transfer fees. If you read my post again, you will see I was referring to ex employees of their club promoting players even though some are shit. On the other hand, we have the Boyds, Ferguson, Raes of this world, not slow in printing complete negativity. Amazing how they have succeeded where we have failed in the sell in market. Lennon quote doesn't even come into the debate

So you think articles in the Daily Record are going to affect how of one of the world's largest multi-million pound sports conglomerates are going to act?
 
No, no it isn't.

Football clubs don't pay what they pay for players on the premise of what Andy Gray says, articles in the Daily Record or because of what people post on a forum

I just think we could expect a wee bit more from ex-players. We've got a real talent on our hands, but here we have quotes such as;

"I'm not a fan of Morelos"
"He's unreliable in big games",
"Not done enough against the likes of Celtic"
"So I'm not a big fan at all"
"I'd punt him tomorrow"

Well I for one am a fan of Morelos!!

It's the constant negative press that he gets that I feel has impacted his value already. Yes a lot of that is down to Alfie himself and his behaviour but I just feel that interview could have been worded a lot better, especially from an ex-player.
 
Never mind potential suitors being influenced by the press, its quite clear Andy Gray has been as well

No way has he watched enough of our games to make a call on Morelos, lots of his opinion will be defined by what he hears from others in the media

Media play a huge part in building up or knocking down the reputation of players, of course a club buying Morelos wont be solely reliant on Media's take on him but it will play a part, undoubtedly

You just need to look at whats going on across at their place with Tierney, built up and built up, Arsenal will have been asking contacts within Scotland about Tierney and will be encouraged by what they are told, the media love him, pundits live him, they wont hear a bad word about him so will help his overall proflie, same just cannot be said with Morelos
 
I just think we could expect a wee bit more from ex-players. We've got a real talent on our hands, but here we have quotes such as;

"I'm not a fan of Morelos"
"He's unreliable in big games",
"Not done enough against the likes of Celtic"
"So I'm not a big fan at all"
"I'd punt him tomorrow"

Well I for one am a fan of Morelos!!

It's the constant negative press that he gets that I feel has impacted his value already. Yes a lot of that is down to Alfie himself and his behaviour but I just feel that interview could have been worded a lot better, especially from an ex-player.

It's just a guy thinking a thing....
 
People should re watch the Killie game last day of the season, the scrutiny he is under and the preconceived Guilty verdicts on every move he makes will tell you all you need to know about how the media treat him up here

They rejoice in a convicted racist, who has about 10 kids to different woman, been getting help for Gambling and whatever else hes been up to, making some sort of comeback over a young foreigner who has shown bravery moving from his country at such an early age in an attempt to improve his and his families life

Speaks volumes
 
People who say Morelos is unreliable have absolutely been influenced by the press.

I’m not sure it gets much more reliable than 30 goals a season and carrying a team through tough spells.

If you don’t see why that is valuable, then you don’t understand what wins league championships. That’s why he is so valuable - what he does in Old Firm games does not matter in comparison to that.
 
Are there 50 articles saying we’d be happy to sell for 6 to 10 million? I suspect you’ve over-egged that to for the argument.

It’s a well constructed case but you’re over estimating the importance of media analysis IMO. His petulance on the pitch isn’t a matter for conjecture and punditry, you just need a highlight reel.

Where you may have a point is we don’t have enough people saying he’s been unfairly targeted on the pitch and he’s referred to a different standard. But maybe that’s because it’s not a very strong point to make. Clubs will quite correctly draw the conclusion the lad has not learnt from that and modified his behaviour.

If there’s 50 articles that say Alfie is harshly refereed and is more sinned against than sinner, the scout from West Ham then goes and looks at the videos of the yellow and red cards. Does he like what he sees in that regard? Does he see a lad capable of screwing the nut?
I think there probably are. Kris Boyd alone wrote 10. Fergie 5. Harts on McCoist and Sutton would take us to 30.

I respect your opinion that I'm over estimating the importance.
But I'd reference our player interviews.
Unless it's pure coincidence you can see from almost all the young lads we've brought in (under 25) they are all humble, reserved with no lack of personal determination and talent. But we are certainly making an effort in my mind to find a personality every bit as much as ability.

Saying that. It's just my opinion. And others are entitled to see something else or not see it.
 
Aye apart from all the goals hes scored in the Europa League and against Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts and Kilmarnock hes really unreliable.

What people mean is he hasnt scored against Celtc yet.

Correct which is exactly what I meant as well as the red cards against the sheep and stupid bookings and suspensions
 
I think there probably are. Kris Boyd alone wrote 10. Fergie 5. Harts on McCoist and Sutton would take us to 30.

I respect your opinion that I'm over estimating the importance.
But I'd reference our player interviews.
Unless it's pure coincidence you can see from almost all the young lads we've brought in (under 25) they are all humble, reserved with no lack of personal determination and talent. But we are certainly making an effort in my mind to find a personality every bit as much as ability.

Saying that. It's just my opinion. And others are entitled to see something else or not see it.

Likewise mate, just my opinion. There's logic and an element of truth in what you say. We're just quibbling about how big a factor it is
 
People who say Morelos is unreliable have absolutely been influenced by the press.

I’m not sure it gets much more reliable than 30 goals a season and carrying a team through tough spells.

If you don’t see why that is valuable, then you don’t understand what wins league championships. That’s why he is so valuable - what he does in Old Firm games does not matter in comparison to that.

The counter to that though is...

He didn't play a Semi last year.
He went off the park during a European Qualifier
He left the park minutes into an Old Firm game

That's not all media driven despite the repetitive echo chamber some on here try and lock everyone in.
 
It's absolutely nuts to think that people don't understand the Scottish media hype up their players in order to create a perception around them. Remember they were touting Izzaguire for £20m ffs?!
 
True but it cant be a bad thing to have ex players on live tv games saying this player or that player has been superb all season.

If you dont think the media influence opinions just look at what happened to Rangers recently or any of the ref threads on here where our own fans are desperate to defend guys that go out to cause the club problems and manipulate results.


Its 2019 and there’s still folk don’t believe in the power of the press, hype and positive PR.
 
The counter to that though is...

He didn't play a Semi last year.
He went off the park during a European Qualifier
He left the park minutes into an Old Firm game

That's not all media driven despite the repetitive echo chamber some on here try and lock everyone in.
30 goals in a season is immensely valuable and none of your points can counter that.

It’s incredible attacking output. Anything else is just white noise told by people for one reason or another.
 
Oh aye course it is aye....teams in England only ever buy a player after cross referencing the Evening Times.....no doubt about that..... that's totally a thing.

Are you being deliberately daft?

If you don’t think that creating hype round players doesn’t work then fair enough, you are extremely naive though.
 
30 goals in a season is immensely valuable and none of your points can counter that.

It’s incredible attacking output. Anything else is just white noise told by people for one reason or another.


The goals are great - but we sort of need our best players on the park to win shit...

We have accounted for the fact Morelos is fucken class, we all know that.....

He has been remunerated for that, given contracts and we have actively turned down bids for him.

He can be both an excellent player and also a player who hasn't been on the park quite a lot when Rangers have needed him....
 
Are you being deliberately daft?

If you don’t think that creating hype round players doesn’t work then fair enough, you are extremely naive though.

No... I am deliberately dismissing a lot of what you are saying as moon howling daftness.

The "media" in Scotland doesn't hold the circulation or credibility to impact player value
 
The goals are great - but we sort of need our best players on the park to win shit...

We have accounted for the fact Morelos is fucken class, we all know that.....

He has been remunerated for that, given contracts and we have actively turned down bids for him.

He can be both an excellent player and also a player who hasn't been on the park quite a lot when Rangers have needed him....
We didn’t lose any trophies because of Morelos last season. We lost them because other members of the squad were unable to contribute to the required standard.

It’s a bizarre phenomenon where supporters of teams that were not good blame their best players. Happens in every sport.
 
"So he probably didn’t need to be at Ibrox in person on Sunday to identify the biggest single problem lurking inside the Scouser’s dressing room."

Honest to f**k, our player of the year and the league's top goalscorer is the biggest single problem 'lurking' inside the dressing room?

F**k right off.
 
The counter to that though is...

He didn't play a Semi last year.
He went off the park during a European Qualifier
He left the park minutes into an Old Firm game

That's not all media driven despite the repetitive echo chamber some on here try and lock everyone in.

He got a ridiculous booking in the Quarter final against Ayr, I think, after somebody halfed him and he reacted to what was a shocking tackle - Hard to argue refs haven't bought into the whole "hes a hothead" mantra peddled by Sutton et al

European sending of was laughable, ridculous decision, booked and red carded for same incident!

OF game he let himself and us down badly

I get you would rather be shot of him but you seem to be stretching at things now
 
Think Andy was absolutely spot on with everything he said tbh, not 100% sure about the punting tomorrow part but everything else was on the money.

I'm a fan of Freddo but he IS unreliable in big games, not because he's not good enough, he just can't keep his head and you end up watching through your fingers. That and the constant going on about how he wants to leave for me are enough to warrant selling him if the right offer comes in.

He was on for about 3 minutes against Marseille "a fkn friendly' and was again shouting and gesturing at the ref, clear he has learned fk all to me.

The power of the press is a thing I agree, but he wasn't saying fkn punt him for 2 washers and a balloon tomorrow, he simply said if he had the opportunity to cash in and strengthen the rest of the squad he would.
 
A great player. Great goals

But irritating as fck sometimes and nobody can deny this.

The stupid reactions from little things getting sent of in the old form and reds against the sheep.

Don’t get me wrong he’s first class and the beatbox player we have had for a good while but there is still flaws in his game
 
Clubs pay what they think someone is worth. They won’t even look at our press, nonsense to think that influences them.
They will go to us or the scum and make an offer. It is then up to the selling club to determine when they will sell. The buying club might think %^*& that they are wanting crazy money.
However they might think we will give them 20m for Tierney as if he has a couple of good seasons we can sel him for 3 times that in a few years.
Unfortunately because Morelos hasn’t played champs league or many international games that makes his value a wee bit less while up here, even though as a striker he could potentially sell in the future for far more than Tierney.
The media has no influence on what a club want to pay, however it might make the selling club try and inflate the price. It really depends then on whether the buying club want to pay.
 
No... I am deliberately dismissing a lot of what you are saying as moon howling daftness.

The "media" in Scotland doesn't hold the circulation or credibility to impact player value

Its not just in the Scottish media though, Sky Sports have carried puff pieces, the Times of London, their Celtic friendly pundits are continually on sky pushing their PR.

As I said, I’m not going to convince you if you’re sure its ‘moonhowling’.

I’ll tell you this, they are light years ahead of us at this kind of thing.

If its not media hype that has convinced the majority of Arsenal fans that a guy that was out for almost an entire season, has broke down every time he’s attempted to come back , hasn’t done a pre season and is currently injured is the second coming of Roberto Carlos, then what is it?
 
It's absolutely nuts to think that people don't understand the Scottish media hype up their players in order to create a perception around them. Remember they were touting Izzaguire for £20m ffs?!

They were hardly inundated with offers for Izzaguirre so I guess big clubs didn’t have their chief scouts reading the Daily Record or Evening Times
 
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