Calico Jack
Well-Known Member
It's the 4-4-2 partnership, that just works.
Anyone know how we can play through that?
- Thread starter ClubDeckBear
- Start date
It's the 4-4-2 partnership, that just works.
A real lack of quality. Every big club around Europe faces the same formation in home games week in week out and has to find the skill and imagination to break it down. Difference is many of them have the funds to go out and buy far superior players and this helps a lot , where as we dont have that luxury.
What he could do can’t easily be taught , the big man just had something different.
silverbear
Well-Known Member
What doesn’t help us we seem to have stepped off thi high press when they have possession. Earlier in the season we played with an intensity the opposition struggled with. Not just in going forward but in closing the opposition down.
Crouch would be less ludicrous suggestion than many we've been linked to.
Presbyterian
Well-Known Member
Wingers.
Number 4
Well-Known Member
I’ve said for a very long time, Morelos is our best player, but frankly, he is also a huge problem for us. Despite his tally, he is not a clinical finisher, and as the focal point of our team and if he doesn’t finish, a la Aberdeen and Hibs in recent games we struggle badly.
We have a Prem level finisher on the bench..... drop Morelos to the 10, and have Defoe making his runs and Alfie will find him. They will tie defender in knots.
I’d go even further and have him marking Scott Brown in OF games..... as he has lost his engine he is sitting deeper and deeper in games..... AM would rag doll him.
As for the defence/midfield...... if you were controlling them on the Xbox or PlayStation, you’d only need one button...... this simple straight side pass to the nearest teammate is utterly pathetic and spineless..... and piss easy to defend against.
We have a Prem level finisher on the bench..... drop Morelos to the 10, and have Defoe making his runs and Alfie will find him. They will tie defender in knots.
I’d go even further and have him marking Scott Brown in OF games..... as he has lost his engine he is sitting deeper and deeper in games..... AM would rag doll him.
As for the defence/midfield...... if you were controlling them on the Xbox or PlayStation, you’d only need one button...... this simple straight side pass to the nearest teammate is utterly pathetic and spineless..... and piss easy to defend against.
skorn
Well-Known Member
Agreed with all your post but just had to repost this part.
For me, this is the most frustrating thing -- how we concede to breakaway attacks against defensive-minded teams.
There seems to be a real lack of coaching about concentrating on our own defence in these games, and as you say in covering for each other.
Another thing I keep reading on this forum is how we should sit back and draw our opponents forwards ... well, this is actually what all the sideways passing and short back and forwartds stuff is all about.
It's to try and encourage the other team to advance and leave spaces.
But it just doesn't work in modern football, where smaller teams have been coached into strict defensive tactical discipline.
The solution therefore lies in getting the ball through them, either with runners and incisive passes, or with dribbling and one-twos.
However ... this doesn't work if our players can just be hacked, tripped, pushed and generally cheated without punishment to the offenders.
Which is why ANY on-the-field tactic that we use MUST run alongside an off-field Club-lead campaign, highlighting the inequalities in match officiating in our games.
Until that happens, we literally could have Messi and Neymar in our colours, and still get nowhere.
wsb&warmy
Well-Known Member
Spot on.
The side to side passing (and backwards) is sometimes the only thing that's on when playing these teams that set up like Killie did yesterday.
However it's not that that's the problem, it's the actual speed at which we do it. Yesterday we were so flat-footed it was unreal. On and off the ball. No movement to help out the guy with the ball at his feet. Players permanently on their heels.
It looked lazy but it's probably more that the players are so deflated and shot of confidence after recent results as well as a touch of perhaps not being mentally strong enough to cope with the pressure from the stands.
We need to move the ball MUCH quicker than yesterday, as well as have players constantly moving into space creating angles and giving options in order to try and disrupt the rigid shape of defensive sides.
Playing the ball about amongst ourselves in front of the opposition with each player taking 3 or 4 touches and then returning the ball to the player it came from and then complaining that he had nothing on isn't going to do any damage, and that's unfortunately what we've been seeing quite a lot recently. It gives the opposition nothing whatsoever to think about and makes it so easy for them to defend.
It's obvious we do also lack players to play that killer ball in the final third, but even if we had that, you still need the movement off it which I'm just not seeing.
The tempo and energy to our game is my biggest concern over and above anything else - it's like walking football at times.
Altogether_now
Well-Known Member
Said the same. Alfies movement would cause them problems
MSF
Well-Known Member
The same way we did when we pumped them 5-0.
If you play at a fast tempo, with quick passing and good movement you pull their players out of shape and create spaces that can be exploited.
Its not a hard solution, but our players seem to have a hard time doing it. They’re just not intelligent enough on the pitch.
If you play at a fast tempo, with quick passing and good movement you pull their players out of shape and create spaces that can be exploited.
Its not a hard solution, but our players seem to have a hard time doing it. They’re just not intelligent enough on the pitch.
This is the difference between us and celtic. Where they play all game and struggle to break them down a few of their players can score from 25 yards. We don't have that type of player
Der Berliner
Well-Known Member
First Old Firm game, the Scum ran at us without much penetration. At HT, they changed that somewhat, sat back more and gave us more space. We duly obliged and they countered and scored their only goal.
How did we score our goal yesterday? They weren`t back and organized, we countered quickly and scored. That only happened before if teams went a goal or two down early and tried to "play" football as opposed to destroy it. We had space and scored more.
What we need is discipline at the back, ONE DM and the rest geared for pressing and attack. Since we lack a goal threat from Candeias, Kent and Morelos, why not play Lafferty through the middle, Morelos as a free roving shadow striker and even Defoe? We need people in their area, which is usually crowded by 4 or more defenders. Dancing through the brick-walls ain't working against that ... or lets say, if it ain't working, it needs to be changed in-game.
BTW, I actually expect us to play 4-3-3 against the Scum next week and possibly even succeed, as the Scum does not defend like there is no tomorrow. Against the rest, 3-5-2 or 3-4-3.
How did we score our goal yesterday? They weren`t back and organized, we countered quickly and scored. That only happened before if teams went a goal or two down early and tried to "play" football as opposed to destroy it. We had space and scored more.
What we need is discipline at the back, ONE DM and the rest geared for pressing and attack. Since we lack a goal threat from Candeias, Kent and Morelos, why not play Lafferty through the middle, Morelos as a free roving shadow striker and even Defoe? We need people in their area, which is usually crowded by 4 or more defenders. Dancing through the brick-walls ain't working against that ... or lets say, if it ain't working, it needs to be changed in-game.
BTW, I actually expect us to play 4-3-3 against the Scum next week and possibly even succeed, as the Scum does not defend like there is no tomorrow. Against the rest, 3-5-2 or 3-4-3.
final_straws
Well-Known Member
Tactics are a large part of our problem.
The way we deploy the 4-3-3 sees:
- Our front 3 effectively consisting of 2 wingers. Often these wingers either get pushed wide or they have to drop back to collect the ball (Kent does this a lot).
- Most attacking midfielder does not get near enough or beyond Morelos. Arfield does to an extent but lacks finesse on the ball.
Ideally we need to play with more central attacking players whether that be 3-5-2 or 4-4-2.
However our recuitment was poor & doesn't allow for these options to be explored particularly. We were crying out for:
- A forward who could play off Morelos. I don't think it suits Morelos playing deeper playing off the likes of Defoe.
- An option instead of Arfield. Someone with more central attacking intent.
There is also an argument that we should have a physical & tall striker as an option to mix up and disrupt their defence. Lafferty is supposed to be this option but lets be honest, this has never been his strength & is really only at a level worthy of playing for another decent spl side.
The way we deploy the 4-3-3 sees:
- Our front 3 effectively consisting of 2 wingers. Often these wingers either get pushed wide or they have to drop back to collect the ball (Kent does this a lot).
- Most attacking midfielder does not get near enough or beyond Morelos. Arfield does to an extent but lacks finesse on the ball.
Ideally we need to play with more central attacking players whether that be 3-5-2 or 4-4-2.
However our recuitment was poor & doesn't allow for these options to be explored particularly. We were crying out for:
- A forward who could play off Morelos. I don't think it suits Morelos playing deeper playing off the likes of Defoe.
- An option instead of Arfield. Someone with more central attacking intent.
There is also an argument that we should have a physical & tall striker as an option to mix up and disrupt their defence. Lafferty is supposed to be this option but lets be honest, this has never been his strength & is really only at a level worthy of playing for another decent spl side.
Crossroadblues
Well-Known Member
Thought this myself. Didn't see a whole lot of movement soon as we got into the final 3rd, with the players just standing waiting for the ball instead of making runs to pull the defence out of shape.
devilman
Well-Known Member
These diddy clubs shouldn't even be good enough to play uber defensive and keep us out. The problem is our tactics are all wrong. If it was just down to them being uber defensive then they wouldn't be scoring as well. We come under attack quite a lot as well so it's not that they're all sitting behind the ball.
The manager needs to change things around when a club is playing defensive tactics against us. He doesn't. He needs to line up with more attack minded team. He doesn't.
Our single biggest problem just now is the managers lack of changing things around. He doesn't analyse the game and make changes - he just sits there too often. Even when he does make changes it's usually a like for like sub. When the tactic isn't working that isn't going to work. Even when he made the sensible choice to bring on another striker he then didn't change things to make it more attack minded meaning the 2 strikers weren't really getting the support.
We will have a massive problem if the manager cannot start figuring out how to beat the other clubs in the Premiership. We'll have to accept Celtic will always be a challenge but we at no point should be worried by fucking Kilmarnock.
The manager needs to change things around when a club is playing defensive tactics against us. He doesn't. He needs to line up with more attack minded team. He doesn't.
Our single biggest problem just now is the managers lack of changing things around. He doesn't analyse the game and make changes - he just sits there too often. Even when he does make changes it's usually a like for like sub. When the tactic isn't working that isn't going to work. Even when he made the sensible choice to bring on another striker he then didn't change things to make it more attack minded meaning the 2 strikers weren't really getting the support.
We will have a massive problem if the manager cannot start figuring out how to beat the other clubs in the Premiership. We'll have to accept Celtic will always be a challenge but we at no point should be worried by fucking Kilmarnock.
D
Deleted member 125
Guest
Their goal yesterday was something we see time and time again.
We commit 8 players in the opposition half and are caught out by one or two passes.
We leave the back door unlocked yet are unable to penetrate despite the number of players involved in our attacks.
We are very suseptable to the counter-counter.
I know that doesn’t solve the issue of breaking them down but how many points have been surrendered by “soft” or “cheap” concessions?
We commit 8 players in the opposition half and are caught out by one or two passes.
We leave the back door unlocked yet are unable to penetrate despite the number of players involved in our attacks.
We are very suseptable to the counter-counter.
I know that doesn’t solve the issue of breaking them down but how many points have been surrendered by “soft” or “cheap” concessions?
mentally challengeds carried out this exact move today for their winner.
Barryhopez
Well-Known Member
In theory yes, but firing a ball against players willing to throw their bodies in the road can lead to a ricochet and we are caught out (or best case goes for us). I'm certainly not saying never do it, but the chance has to be on as opposed to a blast into a 'wall'.
It means though that someone has to leave the back 10 to block it & the know they can’t just sit in the box and we won’t be able to penetrate
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
Nope.
The chances of scoring when there are literally dozens of men in front of you rules that out as a easy answer straightaway.
Celtic manage it. The amount of times we shift from side to side and move the opposition about and dummy shots shows me that there’s scope for long shots.
You can’t tell me a midfielder who can take long range shots won’t have a chance
Hateleysheid
Well-Known Member
For me it's simple, park the back four on the 18 yard line, put the three centre mids five to yards in front of the defence, I will come back to the midfielders. Put the two wide men on the halfway line on the wings and the striker roaming about the centre spot. I would then get the three midfielders to pass the ball amongst themselves always playing a sideways or backwards pass for the whole 90 minutes until the opposition get so frustrated they come out of position and hit them with a quick counter. If the opposition keep their shape then we take draw.
Do that and let's see how long it takes Sky to have a word with the SPFL about the quality of the product they are paying for. Its not up to Rangers to be the team that plays positively all the time and I am pretty sure the SPFL would be quick to have a word with all teams about sitting in. Feck them all!
Do that and let's see how long it takes Sky to have a word with the SPFL about the quality of the product they are paying for. Its not up to Rangers to be the team that plays positively all the time and I am pretty sure the SPFL would be quick to have a word with all teams about sitting in. Feck them all!
thetoptier
Well-Known Member
pace and movement
chickenhawk
Well-Known Member
Shame he will probably be away in the summer
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
Then it's not really about long shots as much, then. It's about being able to hold possession in the final fourth of the pitch and having players who can pass it around quickly.
You can’t always pass through though. That’s where the likes of rogic can help, teams know he’s capable from range so they need to cover him tighter which can create space. There’s no one answer but a mix of both our solutions is a good start
Barryhopez
Well-Known Member
It's just probe and probe I guess to try and make the space. We saw it on Saturday and last Tuesday anyone unleashing a shot was getting charged down and blocked.
To be fair though we aren’t exactly experts at a long range shot either
Barryhopez
Well-Known Member
brain
Well-Known Member
So simple but it can really play a part. Remember when Albertz received the ball centrally and lined up a shot, suddenly 3 guys would sprint towards him to try and block it and he’d often then pass it to the winger who was suddenly in a lot of space. We don’t have enough goal threats from midfield like that, a guy who as a defender you’re afraid will shoot from distance and a centre mid who you’re afraid is about to make a forward run.
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Thornliebank_Bear
Well-Known Member
Simple, buy a big lad thats strong and powerful and let him batter their centre backs. Tippy tappy no workie.
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