Are we a bit hard on *some* the team?

waltersmith

waltersmith

Well-Known Member
Are we being a bit hard on *some* of the team this season, yea we have dropped the ball a few times but I think we are dead on our feet.

5 have played over 45 games this season

Allan McGregor (46)
James Tavernier (50)
Connor Goldson (46)
Daniel Candeias (45)
Alfredo Morelos (44)

4 have played more than 35 games this season

Scott Arfield (39)
Ryan Kent (37)
Ryan Jack (38)

The rest are all sitting around the 30 games right now with 8 games left.

------

If you look at the tims.

Their entire defence is below 21 games
Their entire mid is below 27 games
Their forwards are 25 and below

Even last year when the dirt won the league the highest appearance figure was 35 with most of the team sitting around 30 games each per season.
 
waltersmith said:
Are we being a bit hard on *some* of the team this season, yea we have dropped the ball a few times but I think we are dead on our feet.

5 have played over 45 games this season

Allan McGregor (46)
James Tavernier (50)
Connor Goldson (46)
Daniel Candeias (45)
Alfredo Morelos (44)

4 have played more than 35 games this season

Scott Arfield (39)
Ryan Kent (37)
Ryan Jack (38)

The rest are all sitting around the 30 games right now with 8 games left.

------

If you look at the tims.

Their entire defence is below 21 games
Their entire mid is below 27 games
Their forwards are 25 and below

Even last year when the dirt won the league the highest appearance figure was 35 with most of the team sitting around 30 games each per season.
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Could be,especially if playing with injuries,having said that successful teams have to play a lot of games,so it has to be handled.
 
waltersmith said:
Are we being a bit hard on *some* of the team this season, yea we have dropped the ball a few times but I think we are dead on our feet.

5 have played over 45 games this season

Allan McGregor (46)
James Tavernier (50)
Connor Goldson (46)
Daniel Candeias (45)
Alfredo Morelos (44)

4 have played more than 35 games this season

Scott Arfield (39)
Ryan Kent (37)
Ryan Jack (38)

The rest are all sitting around the 30 games right now with 8 games left.

------

If you look at the tims.

Their entire defence is below 21 games
Their entire mid is below 27 games
Their forwards are 25 and below

Even last year when the dirt won the league the highest appearance figure was 35 with most of the team sitting around 30 games each per season.
Click to expand...

I think you have only looked at league games. Their totals are

Gordon 32
Boyata 31
Lustig 36
Ajer 35
Tierney 36
Brown 42
Sinclair 47
Christe 35
McGregor 49
Forrest 48
Eduoard 43

So we both have 9 players who have played 35 plus this season.
 
The amount of games we've played is definitely a factor. A lot of them looked spent.

The lack of better quality players is, however, another.
 
RandyMac said:
No. The tims have played one more game than us this season and yet they’ve won all but one domestic game (a draw) since we beat them in December. If we’re putting it down to number of games played then it just shows they are far fitter.
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They have a bigger deeper squad mate with players who are used to balancing European and Domestic football.

They also play easier games than us domestically because the opposition 9 times out of 10 are beat before they step on to the pitch against them and play the game accordingly. We've had the ridiculous situation this season where teams have went to Parkhead (Dundee were one of them) and rested their best player(s) because they had basically wrote the game off as a loss before a baw was kicked and were more concerned about fixtures to come.

Against us they certainly don't rest anyone, they smell an upset and march on to the pitch pumped up out their nut, fighting for every ball and flying into tackles from the get go with officials that let them.
 
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tin hat on ...

At times, we’re overly critical of Tavernier, Worrall and Barasic.

Goldson, IMO, has had more clangers than Worrall this season, but never gets the same pelters.

Selective criticism.
 
No. The early qualifiers and the excellent run in Europe probably inflates some numbers, but for a Rangers team to be successful - and that means winning trophies - it typically means some will be playing 50 - 60 games over a season.

If some can’t hack that expectation then get rid.
 
Amato Turn said:
The guys have played a lot of football.

It's shown in the second half of the season.
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This all day.

Majority of these players will still be getting used to the sheer pressure and expectations of playing for us as well as adding 20+ games to the their usual season total with the teams they played for previously.

A hard ask but one they'll benefit greatly from next season.
 
Amato Turn said:
They have a bigger deeper squad mate with players who are used to balancing European and Domestic football.

They also play easier games than us domestically because the opposition 9 times out of 10 are beat before they step on to the pitch against them and play the game accordingly. We've had the ridiculous situation this season where teams have went to Parkhead (Dundee were one of them) and rested their best player(s) because they had basically wrote the game off as a loss before a baw was kicked and were more concerned about fixtures to come.

Against us they certainly don't rest anyone, they smell an upset and march on to the pitch pumped up out their nut, fighting for every ball and flying into tackles from the get go with officials that let them.
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Including international duty:
A McGregor - 50
Tavernier - 50
Goldson - 46
Morelos - 45
Candeias - 45
Jack - 39
Arfield - 39
Lafferty - 38
Kent - 37

C McGregor - 55
Forrest - 52
Sinclair - 47
Edouard - 43
Brown - 42
Lustig - 40
Tierney - 39
Christie - 37
Boyata - 36

They have more depth to their squad but they’re using their core players roughly the same amount of games as we are. Its a fitness and mentality issue for me.
 
Moodymann said:
No. The early qualifiers and the excellent run in Europe probably inflates some numbers, but for a Rangers team to be successful - and that means winning trophies - it typically means some will be playing 50 - 60 games over a season.

If some can’t hack that expectation then get rid.
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Debatable.

Our last League winning season (2010-11) the players with our highest appearances that season were:

Weir (53)
Davis (53)
Whittaker (52)
McGregor (48)
Bougherra (47)
Papac (46)

As it stands we have the 8 players listed in the OP on course to equal or go above that.

60 games in one season is pretty uncommon.
 
Wacaktb said:
No we ain't, they are paid very very well and don't perform anywhere nearly as consistently as they should
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It's sport mate.

Footballers who earn 10-20k a week aren't brilliant. And players who aren't brilliant will be inconsistent.
 
RandyMac said:
No. The tims have played one more game than us this season and yet they’ve won all but one domestic game (a draw) since we beat them in December. If we’re putting it down to number of games played then it just shows they are far fitter.
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They have greater strength in depth because they built a squad for CL football over several seasons.

It doesn't excuse everything - there are other definite issues that need addressed - but it's unfair not to acknowledge that this group of players have already played an entire season's worth of games and we're only in March.

Improve our strength in depth and I think we'll see qualitative improvement.
 
Amato Turn said:
It's sport mate.

Footballers who earn 10-20k a week aren't brilliant. And players who aren't brilliant will be inconsistent.
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We've been knocked out of two cup competitions by an Aberdeen side with a fraction of our budget and Shite training facilities compared to what we have.
We've also continually dropped points to other dross all season, sorry but that's not good enough, they turn up when it suits them, perfect example of that was the last game against the filth
 
Goldson will finish the season having played more games than in the three previous seasons combined.

Kent will be at least double what he played last season. Same with Arfield.

It may not be the volume of games but the step up from previous years. In Goldson's case, in particular, it's not hard to understand why he's now looking somewhat fatigued.
 
David Weir played 61 games in a season aged 38. Cuellar managed 65. They can suck it up.
 
omegaman said:
They have greater strength in depth because they built a squad for CL football over several seasons.

It doesn't excuse everything - there are other definite issues that need addressed - but it's unfair not to acknowledge that this group of players have already played an entire season's worth of games and we're only in March.

Improve our strength in depth and I think we'll see qualitative improvement.
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Wouldn’t say I’m not acknowledging it mate, just worth noting that celtic’s core players have played the same amount if not more games than ours, so I think if you’re going to compare that it has to be said that they have what it takes and we don’t.

Unfortunately a successful domestic season and a good run in Europe requires 40-50 games out of certain players. The difference seems to be that celtic have players that can handle that and still go on a run of 12/13 domestic wins after the winter break while we’ve looked burnt out since December.
 
brain said:
David Weir played 61 games in a season aged 38. Cuellar managed 65. They can suck it up.
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If only things were that black and white.

Lets not forget Weir and Cuellar joined a team already full of International players, Cuellar was also part of a rebuild where we spent a fortune.

Not exactly the same circumstances.
 
Bruce_Wayne said:
If only things were that black and white.

Lets not forget Weir and Cuellar joined a team already full of International players, Cuellar was also part of a rebuild where we spent a fortune.

Not exactly the same circumstances.
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No they aren't, I was being a bit blunt about it. However I think the point stands, fatigue and tiredness doesn't explain 3 wins in 9 at this stage of the season. Those guys (07-08) had far more reason to be fatigued, especially in March, and by this stage of the season they were still picking up maximum points and pulling through in places like Bremen. They didn't even get a winter break.

I understand the desire to get people to reign in the criticism and agree some players have been unfairly targeted by I think the fatigue defence for our performances died a death months ago.
 
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Sure but it is the same mistakes from many of them that we were getting earlier in the season. Candeias couldn't cross or have a final ball earlier in the season, Goldson was making errors, Tav was being posted missing etc all before any substantial amount of games.
 
Sounds like a good theory until you look at our form earlier in the season. It's really not that different.

After 30 games this is our league form:

1st 15: W9 D4 L2
2nd 15: W8 D5 L2

Tired of reading excuses for these players. There's no way any of them should be tired at this stage of the season.
 
omegaman said:
They have greater strength in depth because they built a squad for CL football over several seasons.

It doesn't excuse everything - there are other definite issues that need addressed - but it's unfair not to acknowledge that this group of players have already played an entire season's worth of games and we're only in March.

Improve our strength in depth and I think we'll see qualitative improvement.
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The strength in depth is a bit of a myth that has been allowed to manifest on here.

They may have used slightly more players than us but that is because they have had to use players that not normally would get a game. We have arguably sent better players out on loan than their Ralston, Henderson, Kouassi, Euan Henderson, Micky Johnston.
 
Amato Turn said:
They have a bigger deeper squad mate with players who are used to balancing European and Domestic football.

They also play easier games than us domestically because the opposition 9 times out of 10 are beat before they step on to the pitch against them and play the game accordingly. We've had the ridiculous situation this season where teams have went to Parkhead (Dundee were one of them) and rested their best player(s) because they had basically wrote the game off as a loss before a baw was kicked and were more concerned about fixtures to come.

Against us they certainly don't rest anyone, they smell an upset and march on to the pitch pumped up out their nut, fighting for every ball and flying into tackles from the get go with officials that let them.
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I agree with you to a point.

The reason these diddy teams smell an upset with us is because they've been more common in recent years. Much in the same way they probably expect a doing of that lot because that's what their recent experience has been.

We need to start turning these teams over regularly, until we do there's no reason why they shouldn't think they can get something.

Its all about that fear factor and right now we don't have it. A few quality additions who can pick a pass and create a bit of space will see us tear these anti-football clubs apart.
 
brain said:
David Weir played 61 games in a season aged 38. Cuellar managed 65. They can suck it up.
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That happened once mate.

In 2007/08 a season where we went all the way in the 2 domestic cup competitions (including having to play some replays) and reached a European final having had to navigate two qualifying rounds, a Champions League group stage and then the entire Knockout phase of the UEFA Cup to get there.

It was a freak of a season with a fixture list so fecked up we ended up having to play a ridiculous amount of games in a ridiculous amount of time.

That season was not the norm and we were absolutely done by the end of it too.
 
I wouldn't under estimate the effect 'burn-out' or stamina deficiency has especially on our younger players - but we seem to have suffered from a continuity issue when we have come back from breaks

I've often heard mature, seasoned professionals say they'd prefer to play games to maintain momentum than have gaps in between even if they do give rest periods
 
To your opening question, in a word yes.

We as a fan based can be too quick to judge and condemn players. People writing off Grezda without any real chance to prove himself, then when he came on last week people were saying "oh actually he did make a few good runs, and show some ability". This the same player who hours earlier "wasn't good enough", "was a coward" and a "total waste of investment".

We're a very fickle support and we certainly risk it effecting our players.
 
This is exactly why I had, for want of a better term, a “fück the europa league” (group games) attitude at the time.

Make the group stages for the money then 100% prioritise the league/domestic competitions.

As it happened we tried to prioritise everything and succeed at nothing.
 
waltersmith said:
Are we being a bit hard on *some* of the team this season, yea we have dropped the ball a few times but I think we are dead on our feet.

5 have played over 45 games this season

Allan McGregor (46)
James Tavernier (50)
Connor Goldson (46)
Daniel Candeias (45)
Alfredo Morelos (44)

4 have played more than 35 games this season

Scott Arfield (39)
Ryan Kent (37)
Ryan Jack (38)

The rest are all sitting around the 30 games right now with 8 games left.

------

If you look at the tims.

Their entire defence is below 21 games
Their entire mid is below 27 games
Their forwards are 25 and below

Even last year when the dirt won the league the highest appearance figure was 35 with most of the team sitting around 30 games each per season.
Click to expand...
How dare you mention "hard on" Woman might be reading this.
 
Wacaktb said:
We've been knocked out of two cup competitions by an Aberdeen side with a fraction of our budget and Shite training facilities compared to what we have.
We've also continually dropped points to other dross all season, sorry but that's not good enough, they turn up when it suits them, perfect example of that was the last game against the filth
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Do you have no understanding of football?
 
brain said:
No they aren't, I was being a bit blunt about it. However I think the point stands, fatigue and tiredness doesn't explain 3 wins in 9 at this stage of the season. Those guys (07-08) had far more reason to be fatigued, especially in March, and by this stage of the season they were still picking up maximum points and pulling through in places like Bremen. They didn't even get a winter break.

I understand the desire to get people to reign in the criticism and agree some players have been unfairly targeted by I think the fatigue defence for our performances died a death months ago.
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That team drew with Hibs and Partick in the cup and took replays to go through over the same period as we have drawn with the sheep and killie in the cup this season, then needed penalties to beat St Johnstone in the semi final.

They were alsi a higher quality of player.
 
RFC_Champions said:
This is exactly why I had, for want of a better term, a “fück the europa league” (group games) attitude at the time.

Make the group stages for the money then 100% prioritise the league/domestic competitions.

As it happened we tried to prioritise everything and succeed at nothing.
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So what are you suggesting? Get to the group stages and play the reserves?
 
No. We have a sports science dept and a well staffed medical dept. Look at our 2008 uefa squad. They rightly got a pass, not this squad.
 
I agree
gersandproud said:
I wouldn't under estimate the effect 'burn-out' or stamina deficiency has especially on our younger players - but we seem to have suffered from a continuity issue when we have come back from breaks

I've often heard mature, seasoned professionals say they'd prefer to play games to maintain momentum than have gaps in between even if they do give rest periods
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I agree,every time we've came back after an international break, we've struggled and even worse after the winter break and we've never really picked it up again,frustrating,they didn't win the league,we threw it away.
 
I don’t think we are being too harsh on them, we have consistently been unable to beat teams such as aberdeen, hib and kilmarnock who have all regularly lost their best players over the last couple of seasons. Between the 3 of them they have probably spent less than what we spent on Gredza or Barasic.

It is obviously a lot more difficult with us due to the amount of pressure but I don’t think it is too much to ask to win more often than not against these teams.

The inconsistency domestically while we were in Europe was almost understandable but since going out our form has been even worse so I don’t think the amount of games can be used as an excuse
 
waltersmith said:
Are we being a bit hard on *some* of the team this season, yea we have dropped the ball a few times but I think we are dead on our feet.

5 have played over 45 games this season

Allan McGregor (46)
James Tavernier (50)
Connor Goldson (46)
Daniel Candeias (45)
Alfredo Morelos (44)

4 have played more than 35 games this season

Scott Arfield (39)
Ryan Kent (37)
Ryan Jack (38)

The rest are all sitting around the 30 games right now with 8 games left.

------

If you look at the tims.

Their entire defence is below 21 games
Their entire mid is below 27 games
Their forwards are 25 and below

Even last year when the dirt won the league the highest appearance figure was 35 with most of the team sitting around 30 games each per season.
Click to expand...

A bit hard on the team?

They are well paid professional athletes.

McGregor and Morelos apart, the rest of the chancers will never have had an easier gig in their careers.

This lot collectively are garbage and have proved to be so with monotonous regularity.

But according to some on here, because we appear to be less a shower of chancers than last year, we're moving in the right direction and life ain't so bad.

The way I see it, this lot of ours are heading to the scum hut as lambs to the slaughter. The league has already been squandered away and the filth are going to be up for a good day out at our expense yet again.

And we're maybe a bit hard on them?

I think not.
 
Another thread to try and find an excuse as to why we won’t be winning anything this season.

Bottom line is we do not have enough quality in that squad/team.
 
Bigbluebear said:
That team drew with Hibs and Partick in the cup and took replays to go through over the same period as we have drawn with the sheep and killie in the cup this season, then needed penalties to beat St Johnstone in the semi final.

They were also a higher quality of player.
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Well that’s my point really, quality of player and quality management made this stuff irrelevant . To reiterate, they had dropped 0 points in the calendar year all the way through March despite still been in Europe. We’re on 9 dropped points and haven’t even played Celtic yet and are out of the cup too. 3 wins in 9 games. Add that to the fact that all these problems were present in the first half of the season and the players and tactics are to blame and not fatigue.
 
Leif Erikson said:
It's a crazy suggestion IMO. The players worked their arses off to get there and wouldn't be happy sitting on the sidelines watching our reserves getting pumped.
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......but on the other hand, if that happened but we were on the verge of #55!!!

Instead we’re running on empty, league practically gone before the split plus we got papped our both cups with a whimper

Ifs, buts, maybes now though. I’d 100% have prioritised our competitions.
 
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