Belgium are ranked number 1 in the world. Why are Scotland so far behind??

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
Can be no coincidence how the national team etc has saw a rapid decline in skill and ability along with the general health of the public. Obesity amongst kids is frightening.

Can't be a coincidence.
Except it is a coincidence.

Wales, who are undoubtedly a far superior team to Scotland, have the highest rate of childhood obesity in the UK, and worse health outcomes for adults too.
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
I am convinced that schools are the problem. If you want to be a PE teacher then you MUST agree to after school duty on a Wednesday afternoon and Saturday mornings while all other teachers should agree to such duties once every 6 weeks.Then every child at every year has the chance to play football, hockey or rugby against other schools in an organised system. This is the case in fee paying schools which accounts for the plentiful supply of good young rugby players coming through.If state schools had this system ( which was the case in my day) then there would be plenty of boys at 15-16 who could then be incorporated into the club systems. In New Zea!and school starts earlier and every pupil has some kind of physical activity starting at around 2-3 o'clock which accounts for their superiority in rugby. This would also help in reducing obesity.I realise this may not be full answer but it is closer to the European way and they are miles ahead of us.
Fee paying schools make sure that their teachers are compensated for their time too.

Should music teachers have to commit to giving up Tuesdays and Sundays to run a band?

English teachers to do the same for drama clubs?

There's a hell of a lot of unpaid work that teachers already do, and you reckon we should not only add to it, but make it part of their terms of employment?

Do you stay behind at your work to do something for free?
 

the_baron

Well-Known Member
Around half their team is of African origin despite people of African origin only making up about 12% of the population.

Basically we just need to let fucking loads of Africans into Scotland on the agreement that if their children turn out to be any good at football they have to play for us and we are on to a winner.
 
It is because the filth here have reduced Scottish football to rubble.

But that's been their aim all along and they're doing a pretty good job of it.

Aided and abetted by other Rangers haters of course.

You have to ask yourself, why, if you are the chairman of another club (with us down the leagues) you would vote yes to a situation whereby, the guaranteed winners of the league lose 240k in prize money but the second placed team, which may or may not be your own, lose 680k?

The rest of the scum voted for this.

I think it was the ICT chairman McGregor who voted against the concept in principle, and he was reviled for his stance.
 

Maweepaljoe

Well-Known Member
Put it into perspective, we have never been any good.....not really. Sure we at least used to produce the occasional gem, but nostalgia inflates the worth of these players beyond reality.
Scotland have never, not once in our entire history qualified for the second stage of a tournament. Let that sink in, how historically bad we are. In around 30? attempts at an international tournament, we have either failed to qualify or got papped out in the first stage. Wales have got to a semi final, NI have got to a quarter final as have ROI. Uruguay have won the WC twice (population 3.5m), Croatia have been to 2 WC semis (population 4m) and theyve only existed for 20 odd years.
No idea what the answer is but the fact remains Scotland is pish at football.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
exactly this. just watched my sons 2006 team transition to 11s and struggle. players left out the team because they 'canny tackle'

the sad thing is that players lost to the game at age 12/13 are likely lost for good.
I think it was Xabi Alonso who said he never understood why tackling was such a bragging point in the UK. He said in Spain it's a last resort and it means you've done something wrong to be in that position in the first place. Much more emphasis is placed on actual technical ability.

It's a great point man. Loads of top managers went through the courses in Scotland.

What's your take on it?
Probably a combination of loads of things already mentioned. I don't know what the drinking cultures are like in other nations compared to ours but going out getting mwi at 15 seems to be quite common place in Scotland.
 
Counterpoint - you mention brits abroad. The other British teams do reasonably well.

And yes, consoles are a huge part of life for kids right across the developed world.

One look at video game sales will show you that - the 2nd highest (after China) country for games revenue is Germany, and their team aren't exactly shite.
English fans are hated abroad just as much as the Scottish. England done shite as well for years until recently and prob only managed to produce decent players like gerrard etc because the sheer size of populations few would get through
 

Echo_1

Well-Known Member
There's that many problems with Scottish football I could be here literally all day talking about the issues. It hates itself to death for a start. If the country's 2nd best team (soon to be 1st) can't get a single player in the squad due to hate then we may as well throw in the towel now. We will only get worse as long as we play guys that are Aberdeen/Kilmarnock level.

The most important thing for me is I don't think we do enough with kids at a very young age in order to sculpt superstars. I started school in 1996 and played football right through but not once was I taught about football. No tactics, no tips, nothing. It was a case of the teacher (who knows jack shit about football) picking teams and we'd kick a ball about a small hall.

We should have football coaches teaching football, rugby coaches teaching rugby etc in schools. Why should my primary school teacher who has no interest in sports or coaching in the slightest be teaching me? I knew more about football than her at the age of 8 FFS.

The education system in Scotland is completely outdated and not fit for purpose in the main, especially when it comes to teaching sports.
 

Whitburnbear

Well-Known Member
No one will convince me our Split/Broken country doesn't have a big part to play.

You simply cannot have harmony and will do do well in our circumstances
 

rossgers

Well-Known Member
Turd polishing from the idiots at pacific quay

Steve Clarke described his Scotland side as "competitive" after their defeat by Belgium and former national team assistant Peter Houston insisted qualification for Euro 2020 "won't rest" on results against the world's highest-ranked team.
But what can we learn from Scotland's 3-0 loss in Brussels? BBC Scotland takes a look...
Scotland now have a gameplan
Belgium had scored twice in Cyprus in their opening qualifier, then rattled in three in consecutive home games against Russia and Kazakhstan, but Scotland held firm for the thick end of 45 minutes and only conceded a third in stoppage time.
After just over a week together, the characteristics of a Clarke team are already evident.
Scotland were robust, focused and compact, happy to sit deep and allow the highly regarded Belgians to play in front of them. There was none of the fecklessness of March's humiliation in Kazakhstan or the listlessness that infected the victory over San Marino. This was a side with a gameplan and the resolve to execute it.
"We looked good structurally in terms of the defence," said former Scotland midfielder Michael Stewart on Sportscene. "It was a 4-4-2 and Belgium didn't cut us open too often.
"The players looked comfortable with what they were trying to do."


'Fantastic Clarke has got us off to positive start'Clarke will make bold decisions
The pre-match shock of captain Andy Robertson being out with a hamstring problem eclipsed the fact that Clarke had radically recast the side that edged out Cyprus at Hampden on Saturday.
Out went Bournemouth's Ryan Fraser, second only to Eden Hazard for assists in Europe's top five leagues this term. So too James Forrest, Scotland's player of the year. Likewise John McGinn, who will be playing in the Premier League next season. And Clarke's Kilmarnock protege Eamonn Brophy.
The fact two English top-flight players - Scott McTominay and Stuart Armstrong - could come in as replacements makes it more understandable but, still, this is a manager happy to make bold decisions.
McTominay & McLean make case
Scott McTominay's booking means he will miss the visit of Russia
McTominay was making only his third start for Scotland, but the 22-year-old was a composed presence at the base of the midfield.
The Manchester United player's involvement has been sporadic since making his debut against Costa Rica in March 2018 and he will miss the visit of Russia in September through suspension after picking up his second booking of the campaign in Brussels. However, with no stand-out candidate for that defensive role, McTominay has an opportunity to establish himself.
Another with a chance to make himself a fixture is Kenny McLean, who has started the past three Scotland games and impressed in each. The former St Mirren and Aberdeen midfielder will be playing in the Premier League with Norwich City next season and, should he make that step successfully, he will become even harder to dislodge from the XI.
Russia games are crucial
Belgium are gone. They have 12 points from 12 and seem certain to win the group. So if Scotland are to secure automatic qualification for Euro 2020, they will have to overtake the Russians.
The 2018 World Cup quarter-finalists come to Glasgow in September but even a home win would only move Clarke's men level with Stanislav Cherchesov's side. Furthermore, Scotland host Belgium three days later when Russia face a Kazakhstan side they have already beaten away from home.
Effectively, then, it seems four points from Russia will be needed to give Scotland a chance of finishing second. Failing that, it's a Nations League play-off semi-final at Hampden next March, with Finland the likeliest opposition.
 
No one will convince me our Split/Broken country doesn't have a big part to play.

You simply cannot have harmony and will do do well in our circumstances
Belgium has always been as split, if not more split than Scotland due to tensions between Flanders and Wallonia.

Jelle might correct me if this is sensationalist bullshit.
 

thetoptier

Well-Known Member
"We looked good structurally in terms of the defence," said former Scotland midfielder Michael Stewart on Sportscene. "It was a 4-4-2 and Belgium didn't cut us open too often.
"The players looked comfortable with what they were trying to do."
unadulterated shite
 
I am convinced that schools are the problem. If you want to be a PE teacher then you MUST agree to after school duty on a Wednesday afternoon and Saturday mornings while all other teachers should agree to such duties once every 6 weeks.Then every child at every year has the chance to play football, hockey or rugby against other schools in an organised system. This is the case in fee paying schools which accounts for the plentiful supply of good young rugby players coming through.If state schools had this system ( which was the case in my day) then there would be plenty of boys at 15-16 who could then be incorporated into the club systems. In New Zea!and school starts earlier and every pupil has some kind of physical activity starting at around 2-3 o'clock which accounts for their superiority in rugby. This would also help in reducing obesity.I realise this may not be full answer but it is closer to the European way and they are miles ahead of us.
To be fair in my kids’ school (Scottish Council) there’s no lack of activities - sporting and otherwise - on offer for the pupils.

Cub Scout and Local Clubs added to this mean there’s plenty opportunities to play (in my area) for those interested
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
English fans are hated abroad just as much as the Scottish. England done shite as well for years until recently and prob only managed to produce decent players like gerrard etc because the sheer size of populations few would get through
Firstly, I'm well aware how hated the fans are, yet that seems to have no bearing on performance of national teams.

England done shite as well for years?

World Cup Finals:
1950 - First Round Group Stage
1954 - Quarter Final
1958 - First Round Group Stage
1962 - Quarter Final
1966 - Winner
1970 - Quarter Final
1974 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1982 - Second Group Stage
1986 - Quarter Final
1990 - 4th Place
1994 - Did not qualify
1998 - Last 16
2002 - Quarter Final
2006 - Quarter Final
2010 - Second Round
2014 - First Round Group Stage
2018 - 4th Place

So, out of 18 tournaments, England have
1. won it once (5.5%)
2. Fourth place twice (11%)
3. Quarter finals 6 times (33%%)
4. Last 16 once (5.5%)
5. Second round twice (11%)
6. First round 3 times (16.5%)
7. Failed to qualify 3 times (16.5%)

Not exactly 'done shite' when failure to qualify is half the number of quarter final appearances, and they've reached 15 out of 18 finals.

Scotland on the other hand:
1950 Refused to send team *
1954 First Round
1958 First Round
1962 Did Not Qualify
1966 Did Not Qualify
1970 Did Not Qualify
1974 First Round
1978 First Round
1982 First Round
1986 First Round
1990 First Round
1994 Did Not Qualify
1998 First Round
2002 Did Not Qualify
2006 Did Not Qualify
2010 Did Not Qualify
2014 Did Not Qualify
2018 Did Not Qualify

Out of 18 tournaments, Scotland have:
1. First Round 8 times (44%)
2. Refused to send team 1 time (5.5%)
3. Failed To Qualify 9 times (50%)

If England have done shite, how do you describe Scotland's record?
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
To argue that talent only comes through because of population, but then the stats to show that England qualify for the finals consistently, is akin to arguing that you're seeing aurora borealis, at this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the country, localised entirely in your kitchen 15 out of 18 times.
 
I am convinced that schools are the problem. If you want to be a PE teacher then you MUST agree to after school duty on a Wednesday afternoon and Saturday mornings while all other teachers should agree to such duties once every 6 weeks.Then every child at every year has the chance to play football, hockey or rugby against other schools in an organised system. This is the case in fee paying schools which accounts for the plentiful supply of good young rugby players coming through.If state schools had this system ( which was the case in my day) then there would be plenty of boys at 15-16 who could then be incorporated into the club systems. In New Zea!and school starts earlier and every pupil has some kind of physical activity starting at around 2-3 o'clock which accounts for their superiority in rugby. This would also help in reducing obesity.I realise this may not be full answer but it is closer to the European way and they are miles ahead of us.
My school had that.

When I was in 1st year (1998) we got to choose football or rugby.

We trained 2 nights a week and played every Saturday against other local schools and the fee paying schools like George Heriots, Dollar etc.

We had coaches come from the local rugby and football clubs

I played Rugby, played for my school, local club team, Fife County and had a trial for Scottish schools team.

The opportunity's are there if you want them, even at state schools
 
And we have more to pick from than Croatia, Uruguay, Wales, NI, ROI etc etc
Not too sure all in all as to how many kids play footy here in Scotland than say Croatia ?
I think that thinking about it all Maweepaljoe it's a cyclical thing, remember back when we were getting to many WC Finals
Firstly, I'm well aware how hated the fans are, yet that seems to have no bearing on performance of national teams.

England done shite as well for years?

World Cup Finals:
1950 - First Round Group Stage
1954 - Quarter Final
1958 - First Round Group Stage
1962 - Quarter Final
1966 - Winner
1970 - Quarter Final
1974 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1982 - Second Group Stage
1986 - Quarter Final
1990 - 4th Place
1994 - Did not qualify
1998 - Last 16
2002 - Quarter Final
2006 - Quarter Final
2010 - Second Round
2014 - First Round Group Stage
2018 - 4th Place

So, out of 18 tournaments, England have
1. won it once (5.5%)
2. Fourth place twice (11%)
3. Quarter finals 6 times (33%%)
4. Last 16 once (5.5%)
5. Second round twice (11%)
6. First round 3 times (16.5%)
7. Failed to qualify 3 times (16.5%)

Not exactly 'done shite' when failure to qualify is half the number of quarter final appearances, and they've reached 15 out of 18 finals.

Scotland on the other hand:
1950 Refused to send team *
1954 First Round
1958 First Round
1962 Did Not Qualify
1966 Did Not Qualify
1970 Did Not Qualify
1974 First Round
1978 First Round
1982 First Round
1986 First Round
1990 First Round
1994 Did Not Qualify
1998 First Round
2002 Did Not Qualify
2006 Did Not Qualify
2010 Did Not Qualify
2014 Did Not Qualify
2018 Did Not Qualify

Out of 18 tournaments, Scotland have:
1. First Round 8 times (44%)
2. Refused to send team 1 time (5.5%)
3. Failed To Qualify 9 times (50%)

If England have done shite, how do you describe Scotland's record?
Scotland population was 5-6 million people....... England had 50-60 million people, of course not every one was playing football , but you get the drift eh ?
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
Not too sure all in all as to how many kids play footy here in Scotland than say Croatia ?
I think that thinking about it all Maweepaljoe it's a cyclical thing, remember back when we were getting to many WC Finals


Scotland population was 5-6 million people....... England had 50-60 million people, of course not every one was playing football , but you get the drift eh ?
Croatia population 4-4.5m.
1998 3rd place
2002 group stage
2006 group stage
2010 did not qualify
2014 group stage
2018 2nd place

Entered 6 times. 2nd place once (16.7%), 3rd place once (16.7%), did not qualify once (16.7%), group stage x3 (50%)


Uruguay population 3 - 3.5m
1930 Winner
1934 Did not enter
1938 Did not enter
1950 Winner
1958 Did Not Qualify
1962 Group stage
1966 Quarter Finals
1970 4th Place
1974 Group stage
1978 Did Not Qualify
1982 Did Not Qualify
1986 Round of 16
1990 Round of 16
1994 Did Not Qualify
1998 Did Not Qualify
2002 Group Stage
2006 Did Not Qualify
2010 4th Place
2014 Round of 16
2018 Quarter finals

Entered 19 times, won twice (10.5%), Group stage x3 (15.8%), round of 16 x3 (15.8%), quarter finals x2 (10.5%), 4th place x2 (10.5%), did not qualify x6 (31.6%)

Youre making false correlations
 
Croatia population 4-4.5m.
1998 3rd place
2002 group stage
2006 group stage
2010 did not qualify
2014 group stage
2018 2nd place

Entered 6 times. 2nd place once (16.7%), 3rd place once (16.7%), did not qualify once (16.7%), group stage x3 (50%)


Uruguay population 3 - 3.5m
1930 Winner
1934 Did not enter
1938 Did not enter
1950 Winner
1958 Did Not Qualify
1962 Group stage
1966 Quarter Finals
1970 4th Place
1974 Group stage
1978 Did Not Qualify
1982 Did Not Qualify
1986 Round of 16
1990 Round of 16
1994 Did Not Qualify
1998 Did Not Qualify
2002 Group Stage
2006 Did Not Qualify
2010 4th Place
2014 Round of 16
2018 Quarter finals

Entered 19 times, won twice (10.5%), Group stage x3 (15.8%), round of 16 x3 (15.8%), quarter finals x2 (10.5%), 4th place x2 (10.5%), did not qualify x6 (31.6%)

Youre making false correlations
How so ?
I really didn't mean to do so all the same, if I have done so.
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
Not too sure all in all as to how many kids play footy here in Scotland than say Croatia ?
I think that thinking about it all Maweepaljoe it's a cyclical thing, remember back when we were getting to many WC Finals


Scotland population was 5-6 million people....... England had 50-60 million people, of course not every one was playing football , but you get the drift eh ?
Flipside of that is France

Population 65m

1930 Group stage
1934 Round of 16
1938 Quarter Finals
1950 withdrew
1954 Group Stage
1958 3rd Place
1962 Did Not Qualify
1966 Group Stage
1970 Did Not Qualify
1974 Did Not Qualify
1978 Group stage
1982 Fourth Place
1986 3rd Place
1990 Did Not Qualify
1994 Did Not Qualify
1998 Winner
2002 Group Stage
2006 2nd place
2010 Group stage
2014 Quarter Finals
2018 Winner

Entered 20 out of 21 (discounting withdrawal in 1950)
Winner x2 (10%)
2nd x1 (5%)
3rd x2 (10%)
4th x1 (5%)
Quarters x2 (10%)
Round of 16 x1 (5%)
Group stage x6 (30%)
DNQ x 5 (20%)

So,are they over achieving compared with England?

What about Italy who have a comparable population, but in 19 attempts have only failed to qualify twice, won it 4 times, been 2nd twice, third once, fourth once, quarter finalists once, round of 16 twice and group stages 7 times. Are they over achieving or about right?

Its all well and good throwing about population as an excuse for scotland being failures, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny
 

Dave570

Well-Known Member
Nothing like the old black ash at Knightswood. The old gravel rash. Going home to get the nail brush into it to remove the gravel and then get the iodine into it. Those were the days.
 
We have guys at the SFA employed to mentor people through coaching badges who have never won a trophy, experienced football abroad and can’t work a computer. We must be the only country to have the same coach tutors for the last 30 years.
 
I really don't get the PS4/XBox excuse.

They have them in Belgium and every other country. It's not just Scottish kids that play computer games.
It isn't culture either. I visit Belgium a couple of times a year and they like their drink and chips every bit as much as we do.

This lands firmly at the FA's door as far as i am concerned.
 

BSPECIAL

Well-Known Member
It is run by an organisation managed by people who are more interested in the destruction and persecution of the main team in their domain.
They constantly employ management,on and off the pitch who are not up to the job.
The leadership is corrupted by the influence of one team and this team makes sure everything is suited to help their cause.
And most importantly the player are shite
 

Eugene Fraxby

Well-Known Member
An embarrassing gulf in quality and athleticism. You might blame genetics and culture for the some of it but the inability to pass and control the ball is shameful.
It was like the teams were playing a different sport the other night, and Belgium never even went beyond third gear.

The Liewwell controlled Scottish football mafia has been great for producing quality players hasn't it...
 
Look at the coaches of our national youth teams and tell me what experience did they have to get the well paid jobs. There is decent youth coaches in our set up and the same at other clubs who don’t get a second look for these jobs. Our FA is 100% to blame for the standard of football in this country.
 

Geerfc19

Well-Known Member
Culture one of the main ones.

But I do think that while all that we are trying do with coaches etc is good. It’s all a little to structured.

You do a drill and you get good at it. But only good.

But for me you can’t take away the rewards of street football growing up. It could be 2 a side, 40 a side, on roads, on grass in playgrounds. With each different scenario means a player is constantly problem solving to these situations.

They developed their own style of play rather been shown a thing to do.

Take iPads and phones away at school and let the boys play football again all the time. And also all schools should make it a priority to have a team.
 
Flipside of that is France

Population 65m

1930 Group stage
1934 Round of 16
1938 Quarter Finals
1950 withdrew
1954 Group Stage
1958 3rd Place
1962 Did Not Qualify
1966 Group Stage
1970 Did Not Qualify
1974 Did Not Qualify
1978 Group stage
1982 Fourth Place
1986 3rd Place
1990 Did Not Qualify
1994 Did Not Qualify
1998 Winner
2002 Group Stage
2006 2nd place
2010 Group stage
2014 Quarter Finals
2018 Winner

Entered 20 out of 21 (discounting withdrawal in 1950)
Winner x2 (10%)
2nd x1 (5%)
3rd x2 (10%)
4th x1 (5%)
Quarters x2 (10%)
Round of 16 x1 (5%)
Group stage x6 (30%)
DNQ x 5 (20%)

So,are they over achieving compared with England?

What about Italy who have a comparable population, but in 19 attempts have only failed to qualify twice, won it 4 times, been 2nd twice, third once, fourth once, quarter finalists once, round of 16 twice and group stages 7 times. Are they over achieving or about right?

Its all well and good throwing about population as an excuse for scotland being failures, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny
Fair enough but imo it really does matter given that certain countries are massive in population and it stands to good reason that they will be better than the wee country within hardly anyone is playing the game of football let alone as to how many Great players they may indeed have to be picking from yet every now and again you will find exceptions, Uraguay for instance, back when they were winners, World Football was pants.
Iceland, well Iceland have more fishermen than football players but a wee while back that country introduced some cracking facilities and brought in coaches from around the world to help them whereas our sfa sit on their thumbs, massive attitude difference right there.

The French have always been cowards when push came to shove they always have flattered to deceive imo.
England the time they won it were most fortunate.
Italians for a long while now have also been pants as have the Dutch, Romanians, Hungarians

The main thing being for us here in Scotland, and the dafties in our media miss it time and time again, a few times we had Italy AND France in same grouping to beat, to qualify. Other times far better sides than we were as well.

A good few times after qualifying we had mega rows going on behind the scene over money, like in 78. I firmly believe we had a Great opportunity to reach the quarters at least and yet we can hear our DJ telling us of how big a mess it was behind the scenes, things media had no access to and it was massive arguments over money.
There's that many problems with Scottish football I could be here literally all day talking about the issues. It hates itself to death for a start. If the country's 2nd best team (soon to be 1st) can't get a single player in the squad due to hate then we may as well throw in the towel now. We will only get worse as long as we play guys that are Aberdeen/Kilmarnock level.

The most important thing for me is I don't think we do enough with kids at a very young age in order to sculpt superstars. I started school in 1996 and played football right through but not once was I taught about football. No tactics, no tips, nothing. It was a case of the teacher (who knows jack shit about football) picking teams and we'd kick a ball about a small hall.

We should have football coaches teaching football, rugby coaches teaching rugby etc in schools. Why should my primary school teacher who has no interest in sports or coaching in the slightest be teaching me? I knew more about football than her at the age of 8 FFS.

The education system in Scotland is completely outdated and not fit for purpose in the main, especially when it comes to teaching sports.


'I could be here literally all day talking about the issues. It hates itself to death for a start. If the country's 2nd best team (soon to be 1st) can't get a single player in the squad due to hate '

Erm, like who as we really do not HAVE many Scots for a start ?
 
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