Best Rangers European Manager in My Lifetime?

bilkobear said:
Probably.
However, Stevie why don't we use our bench better?
Is it because Stevie doesn't have faith in those on the bench?
Ojo was what must be termed an empty calorie fix near the end of tonight's match and I struggle to understand why.

That said, I would have taken the draw before a ball was kicked, notwithstanding that I don't rate Young Boys anywhere near that Porto team we defeated.

Did it feel like a defeat tonight?
If it did, it is because Steven Gerrard has set such high standards so quickly and that itself is a testament to huge achievement.
Well done Stevie, you are amazing.
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There's no question Stevie G has European pedigree. What he has achieved with us in his two seasons is exceptional.
I can see why Kent was subbed for Ojo. Of our players on the bench Ojo was most like for like with Kent. However, no doubt, Ojo is off his game. I don't think by much. His passing and crossing need small adjustments to make them effective, he's still running into positions, and he still fights for balls out of possession. Ojo is a developing player with potential to be excellent. Perhaps our manager feels the best thing for Ojo now is game time to build his confidence, and correct timing problems with his passing and crossing.
 
MO_TxTruBlu said:
I Love You too sweetheart ;)

I do 100% agree with you that Gerrard is definitely getting more from less.

I still think that this belief that we underachieved in the 50'and 60's is a myth.
During Symon's tenure there was 27 European trophies (3 competitions) up for grabs, and although a few Scottish teams (Dundee, Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, Dundee Utd) recorded some memorable results in the 3 competitions, they were completely dominated by the latins.
Us getting to 2 Finals and a Semi Final is an achievement.
Spain had 13 successes (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Valencia, Real Zaragoza )
Italy had 6 successes (Inter Milan, AC Milan, Fiorentina, Roma)
Portugal 3 successes (Benfica, Sporting Lisbon)
That's 22 of the 27 available that were won by these 3 nations.
There was 2 English winners in there, Tottenham who were a great side for a couple of years, and West Ham (by fluke, though they did have 3 players who would win the World Cup 1 year later),
but it was not until after Symon's tenure, that non latin countries started to gain some serious success in these European competitions.
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Yes, your point about the Latin countries is pertinent to how difficult it was for teams in the north to win those trophies, why they held the advantage in this period will be for many different reasons, and would itself make for an interesting debate.

That said, there was nothing holding teams back in the non-Latin countries from breaking the mould and as much as I hate to admit it, it took (in Jock Stein) an imaginative coach with a grasp of tactics to do just that.
If Stein had taken over the Rangers team in the early sixties, who would bet that he couldn't have achieved even more with the talents at Ibrox than he would eventually do with those at Celtc Park?

Scotland produced a ton of good footballers relative to the period in the sixties seventies and eighties, and many of them (Rangers supporters) would form the basis of European winning teams in England.
At the same time, Scotland itself produced fine teams who were no pushovers even for the larger nations.
Amidst this bountiful harvest was a Rangers Football Club who should have been the main beneficiary of the abundance of talent, underachieving in terms relative to the reasonable possibilities.
A bit like Ajax missing out on the great explosion of Dutch talent that emerged in the late sixties.
... In my opinion.

Steven Gerrard in a tactical awareness sense may not be ahead of the modern curve in football nor how the game is quickly changing, but he is certainly not behind either.
I am not sure you could honestly say that about many of our fine managers of the past.
 
All these best ever threads are never gonna get a consensus. Walter had some remarkable results but he also had a load of shite outcomes. Waddell is the only guy to actually win something. Symon got us to 2 ECWC finals. In a true ‘European’ sense you have to rate Advocaat but even he blobbed.

SG has taken over a struggling side which struggled at the qualifiers and got us to 2 group appearances and now the k.o.stage.

All the managers bar Stevie did it with regular trophy winning sides. We are still on the journey.
 
SG is doing well but no where near some others at the moment
 
bilkobear said:
Yes, your point about the Latin countries is pertinent to how difficult it was for teams in the north to win those trophies, why they held the advantage in this period will be for many different reasons, and would itself make for an interesting debate.

That said, there was nothing holding teams back in the non-Latin countries from breaking the mould and as much as I hate to admit it, it took (in Jock Stein) an imaginative coach with a grasp of tactics to do just that.
If Stein had taken over the Rangers team in the early sixties, who would bet that he couldn't have achieved even more with the talents at Ibrox than he would eventually do with those at Celtc Park?

Scotland produced a ton of good footballers relative to the period in the sixties seventies and eighties, and many of them (Rangers supporters) would form the basis of European winning teams in England.
At the same time, Scotland itself produced fine teams who were no pushovers even for the larger nations.
Amidst this bountiful harvest was a Rangers Football Club who should have been the main beneficiary of the abundance of talent, underachieving in terms relative to the reasonable possibilities.
A bit like Ajax missing out on the great explosion of Dutch talent that emerged in the late sixties.
... In my opinion.

Steven Gerrard in a tactical awareness sense may not be ahead of the modern curve in football nor how the game is quickly changing, but he is certainly not behind either.
I am not sure you could honestly say that about many of our fine managers of the past.
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I'm sticking with the early sixties part (or the time that Symon was in charge), and even the great Bill Nicholson's Tottenham, Bill Shankly's Liverpool, or Matt Busby's Man Utd, could not break that latin dominance in the European Cup, and those were all great sides, that were probably better than, or at the very least on a par with Rangers.
I think you do Symon an injustice.
Though Tottenham did win the ECWC in 63', none of those English greats made it to 2 Finals in that period.

I agree with all the other points, and I would say that the Scottish national team of that period (early to mid 60's) was as good as at any time in our lifetime, and had an abundance of talented players, that failed to make the World Cup Finals, losing a Play off to Czechoslovakia, who finished runners up in 62', and a shitebag team selection from Jock Stein against Italy(a) in 65', that probably denied us our best chance ever of winning the World Cup!
 
Steven Gerrard has us set up to play in Europe whether home or away i fancy us against any team, hopefully we get a kind draw in the next round but failing that i would love a crack at arsenal or man utd
 
Magnificent debate, I've found myself agreeing with salient points on both sides of the argument. So much better than the 'Song for Ojo' etc. threads. Quality as usual Bilkobear.

Bear in mind Broadfoot, Jean Claude Darcheville, Nacho Novo, Whittaker, McCulloch and an aged Sir David of Weir all started a Euro Final. Mind boggling. Amdy Faye on the bench FFS
 
From a games ratio is Le Guen's record not four wins from six.

Anyone want to do the homework as to wins to game ratio in European games for time in charge of the club.
 
Spudgun said:
Better than Walter Smith?

I don't think he's quite there yet.

Assuming you're older than 11? :)
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Walter Smith was a sh1te European manager, at least first time round....with players and money we had should have done much better.
Advocaat in first and second seasons was excellent, if only Mols hadn’t got injured.
 
Super_Rangers72 said:
Walter Smith was a sh1te European manager, at least first time round....with players and money we had should have done much better.
Advocaat in first and second seasons was excellent, if only Mols hadn’t got injured.
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I think you are both right and wrong.
Such are the complexities of the debate.
However, in being both right and wrong lies the answer. :cool:
 
Willie Waddell has a European trophy, which must give him a shout.
 
I think when you look at the subs available the other night there were no good options to freshen up the midfield. At least Docherty has energy and drive, why wasn’t he on the bench? I can only assume King hasn’t made the grade and is for the off in January. I think this might be the priority position in January. We need Davis back pronto. In wide areas I have no confidence in Ojo or Barker and clearly the gaffer doesn’t fancy Stewart. We need a fit Jones giving us an option. It’s a big squad but there is a lack of quality to compete at European level outside our best 14-15 players so I can understand Gerrard wanting to keep the best players on the pitch.
 
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