Betting sponsorship on way out ?

We’re not targeting one industry it’s one industry in football which is currently a cancer. You can’t get a drink at games so not much more can be done in terms
Of football.

In what way is it a cancer?

Is there tangible evidence that there are a proportional number of Rangers supporters engaged in problem gambling since 32Red has adorned our shirts. Has problem drinking amongst WoS Protestants' decreased significantly since we removed alcohol sponsorship from the royal blue?

In fact the Scottish game would be significantly worse off without the involvement of the betting industry.
 
In what way is it a cancer?

Is there tangible evidence that there are a proportional number of Rangers supporters engaged in problem gambling since 32Red has adorned our shirts. Has problem drinking amongst WoS Protestants' decreased significantly since we removed alcohol sponsorship from the royal blue?

In fact the Scottish game would be significantly worse off without the involvement of the betting industry.
Listen to Andy hallidays interview with si ferry players are never out the bookies.

The fact they put so much money into football should tell you something. People only put money into things they know they get a Benifet from.
 
In what way is it a cancer?

Is there tangible evidence that there are a proportional number of Rangers supporters engaged in problem gambling since 32Red has adorned our shirts. Has problem drinking amongst WoS Protestants' decreased significantly since we removed alcohol sponsorship from the royal blue?

In fact the Scottish game would be significantly worse off without the involvement of the betting industry.

It’s not really to do with rangers scotland has always had a drinking culture. Drinking hasn’t changed gambling has.
 
I’ll post in depth on this thread tomorrow, but were it not for the current sponsors Scottish football would have no sponsors at all.
 
Yes. People develop addiction to many things in life. Gambling addiction is not a new thing. Its clearly a more accessible addiction to develop in a 24 hour internet world.

Should that stop companies paying Rangers for advertising ?
As a gambler and someone who ( had ) a problem I actually agree with you. My issue trying to give up was Ray Winstone and Bet 365 telling me what was going to happen next however since that stopped I have blinked an eye towards it!
 
Bollocks.
It’s not though? Is it ?
It used to be that you were buzzing waiting on a champion Gold coupon coming out in the Wednesday for the Saturday coupon and u were raging if it was delayed due to printing until the Thursday.

Bet builder, corners, corners handicap, player to be carded, goals over goals under, handicap, Asian handicap, player to have 3 or more shots on goal!

And your telling me gambling hasn’t changed
 
La Liga to ban betting companies advertising with football clubs. 8 of 20 clubs affected.

Reading up and there is definitely growing pressure to remove this, same as cigarettes and alcohol (!) in their day.

Not only does it impact on us but away from top of EPL and other glamour clubs who else is putting money into football? What are the alternatives?

The alternatives will be whoever wants to pay the most money once the gambling firms are banned. There was shirt sponsorship long before betting companies started getting involved.
 
Advertising on a shirt isn’t that bad to me. What’s awful is the constant barrage of deals. YouTube video ads are ridiculous for them. People get paid a fortune to trigger responses in people to put their hard-earned money (in most cases) into something they’ll never truly win from. It’s such a scam. Slot machines, roulette wheels so many of them
 
Bookmakers. The latest pariah in the neo-Puritan age.

Pilloried by the same people who want to legalise cannabis.

I have a history of alcoholism, drug -abuse, problem gambling and nicotine addiction.

I really don’t think McEwans on our shirt, JPS on F1 cars or ”the magic sign” in the high street made much difference.

A combination of genetics, environmental factors (i.e. learned behaviours ) and personal responsibility were the key ingredients to my near-destruction and subsequent redemption.

So why did bookies, alcohol and cigarette firms bother spending billions of pounds advertising all over the world for the last hundred years?
 
This thread is probably descending into something that should be in the lounge but there’s plenty of threads on the boards about depression and other addictions etc and I just don’t think our club shouldn’t be promoting it.

Every other TV add these days is targetting vulnerable people whether it’s football gambling, bingo, slots or fecking legalised loan sharks who are happy to dig people further into debt & then you have Facebook offering to bankrupt those who have dug too deep.

I’m no fecking saint myself but I’m sure I’m not alone in saying that I’ve seen people throw relationships and savings away on Living a lifestyle that is above their means.
 
Advertising on a shirt isn’t that bad to me. What’s awful is the constant barrage of deals. YouTube video ads are ridiculous for them. People get paid a fortune to trigger responses in people to put their hard-earned money (in most cases) into something they’ll never truly win from. It’s such a scam. Slot machines, roulette wheels so many of them

Agree with that point about shirt sponsorship not being the biggest problem. Not much point in banning gambling firms from sponsoring teams if they are running hundreds of adverts a week before during and after football matches.
 
see post 38

Fair enough, hadn't seen that at the time. I'd be OK with cannabis being legalised but wouldn't want it being relentlessly advertised the way bevvy and gambling is. Shirt sponsorship is far from the worst thing about the impact of gambling money on football but it's hypocritical of leagues and FAs to ban players from gambling while they take all the bookies money going.
 
I’ll post in depth on this thread tomorrow, but were it not for the current sponsors Scottish football would have no sponsors at all.

Were it not for the current gambling firms there would just be other sponsors paying less money.
 
Then surely we should address fast food and probably fast cars too. And certainly alcohol.

But we won't we'll target one particular industry even though it only affects a minority.

The UK really isn't a nation of gamblers, it's an obese nation of drinkers.

Just now it is, but there’s numerous examples of young teenagers With access to gambling accounts. With the constant adverts and accessibility gambling is going to becomes a huge problem going forward. There’s plenty examples of betting companies reaching out to clients determined to keep them in the game and on the hook. That’s pretty much indivisible from the dealer giving you a free bag of crack just to loosen the wheels.

I am all for consenting adults making informed decisions but gambling is more insidious than many vices and the rise of plastic money and 24 hour sport has led to a point where their needs to be a governmental decision Imo.

I remember a post on here with an addict winning about £6k and being in tears, knowing he would have handed it back to the bookie by the end of the day. A horrible, horrible story and as an estate agent I have sat in houses, forced to sell because the chap couldn’t stop. Loosing his home, wife and kids because of his illness. It is an illness and at some point it becomes the responsibility of government to protect its citizens from themselves.

 
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Just now it is, but there’s numerous examples of young teenagers With access to gambling accounts. With the constant adverts and accessibility gambling is going to becomes a huge problem going forward. There’s plenty examples of betting companies reaching out to clients determined to keep them in the game and on the hook. That’s pretty much indivisible from the dealer giving you a free bag of crack just to loosen the wheels.

I am all for consenting adults making informed decisions but gambling is more insidious than many vices and the rise of plastic money and 24 hour sport has led to a point where their needs to be a governmental decision Imo.

I remember a post on here with an addict winning about £6k and being in tears, knowing he would have handed it back to the bookie by the end of the day. A horrible, horrible story and as an estate agent I have sat in houses, forced to sell because the chap couldn’t stop. Loosing his home, wife and kids because of his illness. It is an illness and at some point it becomes the responsibility of government to protect its citizens from themselves.

I am someone with a history of multiple addictions that nearly killed me and took me to places lower than I had previously been able to even imagine.

Regardless of the illness theory, 12 step model or CBT ( or anything else) as a pathway to freedom. If the problem is beyond me then so is the solution.

If I am responsible for every single decision and every single action then I am not reliant on anything external for my salvation and my continued abstinence. It means that no matter what is happening in any other area of my life I have no excuses for relapse.

Extreme ownership and personal responsibility is the only failsafe "cure" that I know works in any circumstances NO excuses.. It'll be twenty years in September after several false starts.
 
Bookmakers. The latest pariah in the neo-Puritan age.

Pilloried by the same people who want to legalise cannabis.

I have a history of alcoholism, drug -abuse, problem gambling and nicotine addiction.

I really don’t think McEwans on our shirt, JPS on F1 cars or ”the magic sign” in the high street made much difference.

A combination of genetics, environmental factors (i.e. learned behaviours ) and personal responsibility were the key ingredients to my near-destruction and subsequent redemption.
Talking to much sense for on here ,it will never catch on
 
I am someone with a history of multiple addictions that nearly killed me and took me to places lower than I had previously been able to even imagine.

Regardless of the illness theory, 12 step model or CBT ( or anything else) as a pathway to freedom. If the problem is beyond me then so is the solution.

If I am responsible for every single decision and every single action then I am not reliant on anything external for my salvation and my continued abstinence. It means that no matter what is happening in any other area of my life I have no excuses for relapse.

Extreme ownership and personal responsibility is the only failsafe "cure" that I know works in any circumstances NO excuses.. It'll be twenty years in September after several false starts.

i hope you continue to be well, however anecdotal evidence says that there’s people who have smoked all their lives and never had cancer. It still remains the responsibility of government to legislate against the problem becoming unmanageable to the large number who aren’t as fortunate not to suffer.

I enjoy the odd tenner here and there. My father in law regularly backs at £200 a weekend. I Don’t believe that banning gambling is what the government should do, however practices such as depositing money into accounts where people can clearly be seen to have problems needs to be addressed , after all the bookies aren’t slow off the mark when they realise someone is consistently performing better to their detriment.

the sheer volume of gambling advertising just now is incredible and needs to be curtailed, the ludicrous virtual roulette/slot machines in bookies shops need to be legislated against further and if we’re looking at something which is potentially affecting as much as 1% of the U.K. then it categorically needs to have its sphere of influence reduced imo.
 
Personal responsibility. Gone the way of the dodo.

We don’t, and have never lived in a world of complete responsibility. Can you drive at 150m an hour legally in the U.K. ? Can you play music at 200db in you back garden at 2am? Can you choose not to pay taxes or inject heroine?

We can’t because at some point public safety has to be measured against personal responsibility. Hell ethically you don’t even own your own body and your life isn’t yours to choose to end.
 
i hope you continue to be well, however anecdotal evidence says that there’s people who have smoked all their lives and never had cancer. It still remains the responsibility of government to legislate against the problem becoming unmanageable to the large number who aren’t as fortunate not to suffer.

I enjoy the odd tenner here and there. My father in law regularly backs at £200 a weekend. I Don’t believe that banning gambling is what the government should do, however practices such as depositing money into accounts where people can clearly be seen to have problems needs to be addressed , after all the bookies aren’t slow off the mark when they realise someone is consistently performing better to their detriment.

the sheer volume of gambling advertising just now is incredible and needs to be curtailed, the ludicrous virtual roulette/slot machines in bookies shops need to be legislated against further and if we’re looking at something which is potentially affecting as much as 1% of the U.K. then it categorically needs to have its sphere of influence reduced imo.

I agree to an extent mate however - I have backed 300 on a horse and won when I was flush and backed 500 on a horse to chase and lose eventually, how does the bookie know? Seeing a sponsor on a shirt doesn’t make me want to gamble with them! However like I said earlier I found adverts where it would say - Aguerro next goal boosted from 3s to 6s are u in! That hooked me! And I felt agitated and needed to make that bet! Seeing 32 red or sky bet on a shirt does not make feel that way
 
i hope you continue to be well, however anecdotal evidence says that there’s people who have smoked all their lives and never had cancer. It still remains the responsibility of government to legislate against the problem becoming unmanageable to the large number who aren’t as fortunate not to suffer.

I enjoy the odd tenner here and there. My father in law regularly backs at £200 a weekend. I Don’t believe that banning gambling is what the government should do, however practices such as depositing money into accounts where people can clearly be seen to have problems needs to be addressed , after all the bookies aren’t slow off the mark when they realise someone is consistently performing better to their detriment.

the sheer volume of gambling advertising just now is incredible and needs to be curtailed, the ludicrous virtual roulette/slot machines in bookies shops need to be legislated against further and if we’re looking at something which is potentially affecting as much as 1% of the U.K. then it categorically needs to have its sphere of influence reduced imo.

I'm not really sure I understand your first paragraph. Addiction in any shape or form is tough. Continued freedom or abstinence really doesn't happen by luck nor accident. It requires a huge commitment, focus and a renewal on an almost daily basis.

Forced abstinence doesn't work. Prisons and rehabilitation centres / treatment centres have ridiculously low success rates regardless of how they are measured.

No matter how well intentioned these ideas are, it is impossible to legislate an individual out of addiction whether it's gambling, bulimia, self-harm, credit cards, booze or gambling.

Controversially, (but nonetheless true), significant pain and negative personal consequences (the "rock bottom" theory) remains the quickest way to recovery. Banning "Ladbrokes" on a replica shirt will make absolutely no difference to problem gamblers and the recent regulation regarding FOBT machines has simply driven problem gamblers on-line.

Tragically, addicts are wired differently. That's why 12 step organisations tend to be one of the more successful treatments. Addicts understand addicts.

What might seem like a common sense solution to a non-addict will almost certainly be doomed to failure. History is littered with these failures.

Edit: An excellent book on the subject is The Spirituality of Imperfection: Storytelling and the Search for Meaning by Ernest Kurtz and Katherine Ketcham.

I've helped scores of people with their addictions. The only reason I share this is that I really would prefer that good-hearted, well-intended people were better versed in the nature of addiction. There is wisdom in the old cliche regarding the paving of the road to hell.
 
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It’s everywhere in Scottish football

Ladbrokes Premiership
Ladbrokes Championship
Ladbrokes League 1
Ladbrokes League 2
Betfred Cup
William Hill Scottish Cup

1/4 of top flight teams had a betting company as shirt sponsors last season and the majority of Scottish sides advertise betting week in week out.
 
I'm not really sure I understand your first paragraph. Addiction in any shape or form is tough. Continued freedom or abstinence really doesn't happen by luck nor accident. It requires a huge commitment, focus and a renewal on an almost daily basis.

Forced abstinence doesn't work. Prisons and rehabilitation centres / treatment centres have ridiculously low success rates regardless of how they are measured.

No matter how well intentioned these ideas are, it is impossible to legislate an individual out of addiction whether it's gambling, bulimia, self-harm, credit cards, booze or gambling.

Controversially, (but nonetheless true), significant pain and negative personal consequences (the "rock bottom" theory) remains the quickest way to recovery. Banning "Ladbrokes" on a replica shirt will make absolutely no difference to problem gamblers and the recent regulation regarding FOBT machines has simply driven problem gamblers on-line.

Tragically, addicts are wired differently. That's why 12 step organisations tend to be one of the more successful treatments. Addicts understand addicts.

What might seem like a common sense solution to a non-addict will almost certainly be doomed to failure. History is littered with these failures.

@LLLG my answer here covers my thoughts on your query on my last post.

There categorically are people who are wired in certain ways and their psyche are much more/or less responsive to various stimuli.

i had never gambled at all till I was 38. At 38 I was in my car far more than I have been in my working Iife, generally listening to talksport for my sins. This correlated with a gradual decision to stick the odd tenner on. I can honestly say I hadn’t thought of gambling prior to this to my recollection. The progressive, drip feed of bookies advertising clearly ”helped” my brain to rationalise the nature of gambling. This is the insidious nature of advertising for all applications, however for something as Potentially dangerous as Gambling is there needs to be more control.

My point would be that if less people are continually exposed to the normality of gambling then less people would give it a try. Addicts may well find something else to focus their attention but something that can remove your months earnings at the press of a button needs to be Strenuously controlled in its exposure to the public.
 
I'm not really sure I understand your first paragraph. Addiction in any shape or form is tough. Continued freedom or abstinence really doesn't happen by luck nor accident. It requires a huge commitment, focus and a renewal on an almost daily basis.

Genuinely meant no offence, or to demean anyone’s experience with any addiction. I was attempting to suggest that your strength of will to make the change you wanted can’t be counted on when considering the vast numbers of people in a country. Therefore it is the government’s responsibility to make that decision for masses.
 
Genuinely meant no offence, or to demean anyone’s experience with any addiction. I was attempting to suggest that your strength of will to make the change you wanted can’t be counted on when considering the vast numbers of people in a country. Therefore it is the government’s responsibility to make that decision for masses.

Absolutely no-offence taken mate.

It's an engaging discussion. Recovery from addictions something close to my heart and although I wouldn't claim to be an expert on it I do have a few years experience and hopefully gained a little bit of wisdom along the way.

My point remains a simple one. Legislation seldom (almost never) curtails addiction and can often cause more issues than it claims to solve.

I suspect we'll just have to agree to disagree.

All the best, it's 1.38am here in Luxembourg and I should probably try to sleep.
 
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