Betway bookies and problem gambling
- Thread starter mdingwall
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Todd The Prod
Well-Known Member
I’m sorry but I don’t think it should be the bookies that have to stop punters betting.
It’s the equivalent of saying supermarkets shouldn’t do “deals” or Black Friday/Cyber Monday shouldn’t happen because people spend money they don’t have, or even PCP deals that get people in debt that in many cases they can’t afford. You could say banks are immoral for giving people loans/mortgages they can’t afford.
The point in all of that is that the bookies don’t force them to put on bets, regardless of how “immoral” it may seem, just because someone gives you a good deal on something doesn’t mean that there is no other option but to take it.
It’s the equivalent of saying supermarkets shouldn’t do “deals” or Black Friday/Cyber Monday shouldn’t happen because people spend money they don’t have, or even PCP deals that get people in debt that in many cases they can’t afford. You could say banks are immoral for giving people loans/mortgages they can’t afford.
The point in all of that is that the bookies don’t force them to put on bets, regardless of how “immoral” it may seem, just because someone gives you a good deal on something doesn’t mean that there is no other option but to take it.
im_a_good_bluenose
Well-Known Member
As a problem gambler myself I agree to a point. No one holds a gun to your head making you bet. However when they are chucking free bets at you and your stake back if you lose then it takes real inner strength to turn it down. Even now even though I’ve self excluded I still get occasional emails from betting sites with offers. Ironically 32red being one the worst.
EndOfDays
Well-Known Member
For some reason "social responsibility" doesn't extend to supermarkets selling cheap booze to alcoholics.
EndOfDays
Well-Known Member
32Red are scumbags, even trying to self exclude from there site is made as difficult as possible.
Todd The Prod
Well-Known Member
I do sympathise with folks who have an issue gambling, I honestly do. I have a very good mate who lost nearly 100k gambling and to this day I feel terrible for him.
I do agree with you though that if you’ve excluded your account or shut your account, you shouldn’t be receiving emails. At that point, you’ve taken steps to stop because you know you’ve got a problem, they shouldn’t try to entice you back in.
It's the targeted (and predatory) nature of online bookmakers' behaviour which makes it difficult to defend.
That's the second time in the last few weeks we've had one of these stories shared on here.
The gambling industry is under attack at the minute. As someone employed in it, the press coverage disgusts me. The same outlets that are attacking the industry one day are then getting in touch looking for prices for something the next. It's just very in vogue at the minute to lambast the bookies as being responsible for this fictional "problem gambling expidemic".
I'm 18 days into dry January now. I just felt like I ought to lay off alcohol for a bit. It was my choice and I took responsibility for it without blaming Jack Daniels, Heineken or whoever.
The gambling industry is under attack at the minute. As someone employed in it, the press coverage disgusts me. The same outlets that are attacking the industry one day are then getting in touch looking for prices for something the next. It's just very in vogue at the minute to lambast the bookies as being responsible for this fictional "problem gambling expidemic".
I'm 18 days into dry January now. I just felt like I ought to lay off alcohol for a bit. It was my choice and I took responsibility for it without blaming Jack Daniels, Heineken or whoever.
TibbsyBear
Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s the same. You can clearly see that Manager is exploiting someone he probably knows has a serious problem.
To be fair mate, it’s unlikely it’s ever going to be gilded with wonderful PR and lauded for its great philanthropy.
Working in the industry is obviously going to give you a bias but you can’t dress up the “gambling industry” as some innocent middleman caught up in the chaos of vulnerable people’s lives.
For a start, there is a world of difference between somebody feeling they need cut their alcohol intake and somebody being a diagnosed alcoholic, the same as there is a difference between someone who enjoys putting a £10 line on every week who decides to cut back to once a fortnight and someone who is addicted to gambling exorbitant sums away and is enticed back by targeted "VIP" campaigns.
Secondly I have yet to hear of breweries offering free drink to customers they have profiled as alcoholics even after they have told the firms they no longer wish to buy alcohol from them.
I don't think the industry is innocent, but I do think the constant attacks in the press are ridiculous, overblown and hypocritical. Would you not say its hypocritical when a news outlet attacks bookmakers one day, then is getting in touch the next asking for prices on quainter things like Xmas number ones and the Great British bake off...
I worked in a bookies in the city centre of Glasgow for 3 years when I was at uni and some of the things I’ve seen are shocking, people putting nearly £10,000 into a fobt machine and individuals staking over £250,000 over the counter in 1 month, always told to keep the big punters sweet to the point were it felt like they had control over the decisions, late bets accepted, bonuses, vip packs.
Perhaps.
But it’s not saying gambling is bad, the industry is evil. It’s highlighting the slightly darker side which is standard fare for a tabloid.
I’d certainly agree it’s not news.
Sure there's a difference...and in both cases the problem individuals are in a tiny minority to those who can enjoy the activity in moderation. Whole industries that employ tens of thousands don't need constant scruntiny because the negative press stories about the tiny minority are a "sexy read" in the papers.
Your second point is of course valid, any bookmaker that wanted to solicit the business of someone who had self excluded would, of course, be heavily punished. I think what grates on me is the perception the media wants to sell of a predatory and out of control industry. The reality is its massively regulated and any simple google search will tell you the punishments firms have faced in the past for breaches of social responsibility.
kingwilliam
Well-Known Member
Jack Daniels,Heinekin ect don't send you emails and letters trying to entice you back.
It isn't the horror stories of huge losses and unscrupulous solicitation that gets me (although it does anger me that somebody could knowingly bleed a fellow human in such a fashion), but that when you do get lucky they are down on you like a ton of bricks, limiting your wagers, reducing your offers, shutting accounts and denying withdrawals. As if it isn't enough that punters have to overcome some really heavily weighted odds in the first place!
Obviously you can vote with your wallet, bet elsewhere or not at all etc etc, but I think people would look more favourably upon the bookies if they would act a little more graciously when things don't go their way, either.
Obviously you can vote with your wallet, bet elsewhere or not at all etc etc, but I think people would look more favourably upon the bookies if they would act a little more graciously when things don't go their way, either.
bob1873
Well-Known Member
In Scotland? Need to head to the border to get cheap alcohol.
People who drink or gamble to excess are to blame not those who sell alcohol or bookmakers. In my view gambling is for mugs there are no poor bookies for a reason. As for alcoholics again they choose so everyone gets punished because of a minority ?
I dont think those industries are anyway comparable in regards to the damage and destruction gambling can do. Yes they might rip the piss with interest rates etc, but they are at least paying for a product. Gambling companies targeting emotionally vulnerable gamblers are basically rinsing them until they have lost everything - money, kids, house.
At least with a bad mortgage or a bad PCP car deal the life long consequences are no where near the same.
Coop
Well-Known Member
How the hell can you do that?
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Todd The Prod
Well-Known Member
I dunno man. Those places can make you lose the roof over your head just as much as a gambling problem can.
How about shops like Brighthouse? They charge an astronomical amount of interest on purchases, over long periods that make it look “cheap” for folk that would shop there, they then have no issue with folks kitting out their whole homes in their gear that puts folk in deep debt.
There’s then “payday loans” with a billion % APR (seen adverts for 1349% APR) that makes it nigh on impossible to actually pay it off.
All the above are, technically, doing nothing wrong, but I’d argue that they also are morally wrong, just like these bookies could be, yet there’s no pressure on them to give reasonable rates.
Addiction
MLF1972
Well-Known Member
It's amazing how many of these shops are in close proximity to a bookies. There always seems to be cash machines close by as well.
govwalker
Well-Known Member
So those of us who like a punt on a footie coupon at the weekend or on the Nags are mugs? Aye no bother. Do you drink or smoke or take drugs?
Nothing wrong with a small punt if you can afford it but these bastards target the vulnerable like posters have said. Anyone who denies that is talking garbage. Ie people with an Addiction.
govwalker
Well-Known Member
A bookies always comes hand in hand with 1. A cash line next door and 2. A pub.
bob1873
Well-Known Member
Never gambled mate it’s for mugs in my view. I like a beer or a glass of wine I don’t drink spirits because I don’t like them. I only enjoy (for example) couple of beers watching a game on TV. I’ve never taken drugs aside from prescribed medication if I view gambling as a mugs game then I view people taking drugs as utter morons. I’d fight the war on drugs to win it, it would not be pretty but I’d win it.
govwalker
Well-Known Member
So is alcohol then that's for mugs.
I like a punt at the weekend ie £20 on a coupon and or a bet on the Nags at Cheltenham etc. That's not a mug. Its harmless.
These guys and girls with addictions aren't mugs either but in desperate need for help like an Alcoholic or Drug Addict.
Wazza
Well-Known Member
That is down to poor Traders mate if "they" come down on you like a ton of bricks when you are lucky, some real bad ones about and at the top of the game now. Agree 100% about denying withdrawals etc... shocking, slowly getting better to be fair but been terrible online so far from far too many firms, including the high street leaders.
Thommo2006
Well-Known Member
Sky bet limited my betting stake after I won a few bets
Wazza
Well-Known Member
If they were moody Volleyball in Turkey (like I closed someone for this week) then it's fair play. If it was a few winners at Cheltenham or a Champs League combo then it's awful. If it was a few top prices on random crap and your account was linked to matched betting - such as a wife or sister account then that's the battle!
Brennan Huff
Well-Known Member
As a recovering gambling addict i couldn't agree more.
I gambled for a variety of reasons including boredom, selfishness & the urge to make a quick buck.
That's on me, not the betting companies.
The main reason i stopped attending my GA meetings was the amount of people wallowing in self pity & not taking responsibility for their own actions.
Thommo2006
Well-Known Member
Yeah it was just bog standard footy treble quads won about 600 quid off probably 30/40 quid they limited my stakes to 8 quid
Possibly the greatest line on this forum since “pretty fit and go the gym”
Marvellous.
Wazza
Well-Known Member
Aye, that's awful - see and hear about it happening far too much.
bob1873
Well-Known Member
Alcohol in moderation is perfectly fine for most people. If you choose to view life through a glass then yes mugs. The real mugs are the hard working tax paying majority who see their cash wasted on people who choose that as a way of life. People who recognise their issue and deal with it should be applauded and helped those who don’t and therefore opt out of society should receive zero. I guess if you gamble in extreme moderation then that’s fine too those who can’t act sensibly then again they’ve opted out. There should be no moderation in drugs.
Now I guess you and many other will disagree which is your prerogative as it is mine to hold my views.
bob1873
Well-Known Member
Oh I’d win it mate some parts of the world would be dust and there would be a lot of death sentences occurring some without the need for a court case!
. Like I said in full control I’d win it.
govwalker
Well-Known Member
I'm agreeing with you to an extent but to label All Gambling and People who do it for abit of fun as Mugs is a tad crass.
Renfrew@UKGB&NI
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I have a punt on the football and some horse racing, mainly enjoying the Cheltenham week. I will only bet what I can afford and will not leave myself short of money for every day things.
govwalker
Well-Known Member
That's the point. People who are gambling thousands of £'s are addicts and need help and need to admit to themselves they do.
The weekend punter isn't a mug when it's a casual small bet.
mrsjr1872
Well-Known Member
U would maybe be more tempted to go for a beer if somone was phoning u every night offering you free beer
I rarely gamble and always for peanuts unless I've got a tip so no very little about it! to me tho reading that story it seems they are targeting people they know are mince at gambling to clean them out that's not right to me targeting the weak
tottie beck
Well-Known Member
Someone should get locked up for that. It's like constantly asking an alcoholic does he want a drink, or taking a disabled person's crutches away from them. Bookies can be absolute bastards.
bob1873
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I worked with a guy who played football at a decent level, I played at a pretty low level we used to joke that we were probably the only two former players that had never been in a bookies and had no idea how to place a bet. I’m quite happy about that and so was he.
Wazza
Well-Known Member
To be honest mate most of that stuff isn’t bookies in the original sense of the word it’s all these scumbags who have came in to the game who simply will try and make money at all costs. Your marketing people are bad for it and account managers. Many who push all this stuff aren’t even in to Sport let alone a day at the races. So many have came in to the industry in the last 15 years and it’s now totally changed. They really don’t care what damage the punter causes as long as they are making money.
Albertz'rightpeg
Well-Known Member
I work in the industry. I have witnessed grown men break down in tears and finally admit to having a problem. It's heartbreaking.
Staff read a module and are expected by the company to be able to deal with problem gamblers. That is laughable considering the pay and some of the nuggets they employ.
While I have a lot of sympathy for problem gamblers you have guys, obviously with a problem walk into shops with say 2g cash on them. What do they think is going to happen? We don't physically pull them off the street. IMO the minute they step over the door the money is as good as gone.
Staff read a module and are expected by the company to be able to deal with problem gamblers. That is laughable considering the pay and some of the nuggets they employ.
While I have a lot of sympathy for problem gamblers you have guys, obviously with a problem walk into shops with say 2g cash on them. What do they think is going to happen? We don't physically pull them off the street. IMO the minute they step over the door the money is as good as gone.
Carson’s Army
Well-Known Member
It’s all about choice imo.
he had a choice to do it and accept the gifts.
he had a choice to do it and accept the gifts.
cornholio
Well-Known Member
True, from the outside you make a choice, but not to take into account a myriad of other factors would not be useful, such as underlying temptation, how you're feeling at the time etc. From their perpective It may not feel like a choice, but a need.
Addiction in any form is a dangerous animal.
Carson’s Army
Well-Known Member
yes it is dangerous but you can’t tell pubs to close near a alcoholics home and others have said people have all sorts of addictions like shopping but no one blames the shops
in my eyes he knew what he was doing. He’s a adult . He’s responsible. He knew he was stealing.
if you want to help yourself. You need to admit problem and start helping yourself
