Billy McNeil Quote "Open Secret" Daily Record

Paisleyprod said:
He claims Jock booted Torbett right out the door.

He also was on front page of record saying shut down clubs that protect perverts. Why didn't he push for Celtic to be shut down?
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And he (BJK) also made the DR headline on the 19th August 1965 when he stated that 'Celtic may have to close down for good as their supporters were out of control'
Unfortunately it wouldn't just be their scum supporters that were out of control, but their paedo staff as well!
 
Harthill Bill said:
I was told the transcripts were not available. They never offered a reason.

I'm not convinced they'd be available under FOI?
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I don't know myself, but on the Scottish Courts website it says court records should be available either from the court that the case was heard in or (depending on the type of case) the National Records Office. Unless i'm reading it incorrectly!
 
bilkobear said:
"To Jim Torbett's credit he phoned Jock Stein and admitted the offences," Cairney recalls.

What kind of proof did they want?

This club have nowhere to hide.
Everything we ever sang about this was wrong, we were always far too limited in our criticism, it was much worse than any of us ever claimed in verse.
They really are the most shameful organisation that ever took to a football field.

The Vatican's eleven indeed.
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It isn't even the clubs responsibility to find proof. Reasonable assumption is all that would be required to remove him from his post. Other than that, it is a police matter to find the required evidence to prosecute. Why weren't they given the opportunity to gather said evidence and protect boys outside of Celtic Boys Club from a predator?
 
AndythephotoDr said:
It would be good to get an actual copy of the article in the paper as many Tim’s still believe McNeill never said such words in court
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They vehemently deny this was said In open court either by McNeill or Birt. Was arguing with one on facebook and he said prove it. I've copied and linked what's been put up in this thread tonight and relaunched the argument.
 
Billy McNeil said, on oath in a court of law, "It was an open secret at Parkhead"

This doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the report. Did McNeill actually give testimony or was the allegation not that he commented in the press after the trial had taken place?
 
Apart from compensation claims does anybody actually believe the SFA or Scottish assembley , will take any action against this vile organisation.
 
deedle said:
Billy McNeil said, on oath in a court of law, "It was an open secret at Parkhead"

This doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the report. Did McNeill actually give testimony or was the allegation not that he commented in the press after the trial had taken place?
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Correct.

It only serves to muddy the waters further.
 
Stuhercules said:
#126
Here's a thought, you know how they say C&£÷*c were started as a charitable organisation to help the poor oirish blah blah blah. Maybe they were set up for easy access to young men/children.

Is Torbett et al just the only ones to have been caught due to modern society not prepared to tolerate child abuse ?

As a club their ability to suppress news of these vile actions didn't just happen overnight, they've developed over the decades a slick operation in keeping things hush hush and would have been much more easier for them to do so 60, 70, 80 years ago. You only need to look at how easily Radio Clyde SSB for example this very day have been silenced and ordered not to mention anything.

Could C÷$&/c Football Club in actual fact be a massive paedo organisation and the football a convenient charade set up by brother Walfrid for him and his priest friends to have access to children ?

Are their more victims out there prior to Torbett and his gang, silenced and taking their secrets to the grave ?
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There also seems to be a few different photos I have seen on this forum of Jimmy Saville with Roman Catholic clergy and a representative of them. He was a RC as well. Do we even know how often he went there? I don't think it was for the football, do you? The RC cult has previous form for the rape of nuns and of course murder, for hundreds of years. It is not beyond reason to believe that from the outset there was child abuse at this club or those who worked there, were doing it. Full investigation required, going back for as long as it can.
 
El Jock Grande Sabia said:
I don't know myself, but on the Scottish Courts website it says court records should be available either from the court that the case was heard in or (depending on the type of case) the National Records Office. Unless i'm reading it incorrectly!
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Going by recently past events it is probable that these “unavailable” legal documents have actually been”lost” !!
 
deedle said:
Billy McNeil said, on oath in a court of law, "It was an open secret at Parkhead"

This doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the report. Did McNeill actually give testimony or was the allegation not that he commented in the press after the trial had taken place?
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Perhaps this wasn't the final sentence in the report?
 
deedle said:
Billy McNeil said, on oath in a court of law, "It was an open secret at Parkhead"

This doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the report. Did McNeill actually give testimony or was the allegation not that he commented in the press after the trial had taken place?
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It reads like it’s been tacked on. A newspaper report about a trial would not write “on oath in a court of law”. Not even the Daily Rhetard.

My recollection of the ‘open secret’ quote is McNeill said it to the press in response to the trial, possibly in one of his newspaper columns.
 
It’s very clear that the government in Scotland are a cowardly bunch of sh*tbags and won’t be asking for a public enquiry into this scandal.

Someone should try and get an MP to bring this subject up in the House of Commons
It would raise the profile nationally and make expose the SNP at the same time

Does anyone know of such an MP?
 
Aspley1 Ger said:
Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland); 11/7/1998; McILWRAITH, GORDON
JOCK Stein and the Celtic board covered up allegations made against Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett,

Mr Birt said: "There was a lot of hearsay and it wasn't until Jim came back that I got involved because things started up again."

He told how he took the allegations against Torbett to the Celtic board and Stein and even told the then vice-chairman, Kevin Kelly, about them at a meeting in his car.
He said: "Although there were people who spoke to me I couldn't go to the police without actual proof of the allegations. When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times."

Billy McNeil said, on oath in a court of law, "It was an open secret at Parkhead"
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I'm concerned about the last line in this article.

I'm not sure it was in the original article and may have been tagged on afterwards.

Been digging a bit on Google and have found a few links with the article but not with the last line. For example:

https://celticscandalcase.wordpress.com/

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=308379&page=4

Also, it appears that the article quoted above is not complete. I think we need reliable link to the original article.

It is important that we ensure that any quotes or comments attributed to the various people involved are accurate and properly sourced. We don't want to give them any opportunity to deflect attention.
 
Sriously vryone knew back then, back in the late 80's we sang on the bus and in the east enclosure... who shaggd all the boys .. celtic boys club, who shagged all the boys
 
How can you call a meeting take the financial statements off the perpetrator, kick them up the rse and tell them to forget all the hoopla if there is no connection to CFC.
Then with full knowledge of what was going on not report it to the police, it's the biggest cover up of child molestation and subsequent paedo ring in Scotlands history, loads of them knew about it and they all covered it up.
Celti@s Penn state was alive and well, where are the hush letters?
Why would a club that has no connection with CBC get them to sign them ?
The club and their employees are guilty as hell, their cover up allowed it to go unreported to the authorities and a subsequent paedophile ring to flourish.
It needs a full public enquiry to get the sordid details out of who knew and kept quiet about it.
The Kelly's, Joke Stein and the whole criminal crew, all for the sake of the name of CFC.
That cover up the allowed the subsequent Paedo ring to flourish and destroy other childrens lives.

Scotland on Sunday 18/08/1996

"To Jim Torbett's credit he phoned Jock Stein and admitted the offences," Cairney recalls. "Jock called a meeting at Celtic Park, which he chaired. He took all the financial statements off him and led him to the door. Torbett started crying. Jock's words were: 'Never mind the ****ing Hollywood stuff' and opened the door and said to him 'If it wasn't for these boys you'd be going to jail for a long while'. He opened the door and kicked him in the backside right out.
 
Aspley1 Ger said:
Scotland on Sunday 18/08/1996

"To Jim Torbett's credit he phoned Jock Stein and admitted the offences," Cairney recalls. "Jock called a meeting at Celtic Park, which he chaired. He took all the financial statements off him and led him to the door. Torbett started crying. Jock's words were: 'Never mind the ****ing Hollywood stuff' and opened the door and said to him 'If it wasn't for these boys you'd be going to jail for a long while'. He opened the door and kicked him in the backside right out.
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is that a quote from Billy McNeil?
 
Hillheadbear said:
I'm concerned about the last line in this article.

I'm not sure it was in the original article and may have been tagged on afterwards.

Been digging a bit on Google and have found a few links with the article but not with the last line. For example:

https://celticscandalcase.wordpress.com/

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=308379&page=4

Also, it appears that the article quoted above is not complete. I think we need reliable link to the original article.

It is important that we ensure that any quotes or comments attributed to the various people involved are accurate and properly sourced. We don't want to give them any opportunity to deflect attention.
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There have certainly been at least a couple of posters on here who have trawled through the Mitchell library looking for the DR article with this BM quote but were not been able to find it.
 
mart22 said:
I'd say the boys were coerced, bribed, even threatened so they didn't report abuse to the police. After all, in Jock Stein's own words, "keep the name of Celtic football club clean at all times". Odd that he didn't say keep the name of Celtic boys club clean at all times. What with the two being separate entities and all.
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Well picked up mate.
 
DavidSmith said:
I know, it’s now beyond any doubt for even the ultra doubters that it was never a ‘separate entity’
Only the filthy scum liars at the piggery, such as the filthy lying scum Lawwell tries to persist with that myth!
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Taking this a stage further, and a question or two to be answered, why was there a need for a separate entity in the first place?
 
Taki said:
No, we didn’t. The boys club scandal didn’t break until the mid-90’s.
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Whenever it broke it took too long.
CBC was founded in 1966 (or thereabouts) but Torbett was abusing (players from the u’15s) during season 1968/69
Many, many people (adults) would have been aware of what was going on long before the story broke, evil bastards.
 
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Aspley1 Ger said:
Scotland on Sunday 18/08/1996

"To Jim Torbett's credit he phoned Jock Stein and admitted the offences," Cairney recalls. "Jock called a meeting at Celtic Park, which he chaired. He took all the financial statements off him and led him to the door. Torbett started crying. Jock's words were: 'Never mind the ****ing Hollywood stuff' and opened the door and said to him 'If it wasn't for these boys you'd be going to jail for a long while'. He opened the door and kicked him in the backside right out.
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Unbelievable.
 
gerrard32 said:
Sriously vryone knew back then, back in the late 80's we sang on the bus and in the east enclosure... who shaggd all the boys .. celtic boys club, who shagged all the boys
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Taki said:
No, we didn’t. The boys club scandal didn’t break until the mid-90’s.
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I can assure you it was being sung in the 80s. I even have an old cassette from the mid-80s with a song referencing it.

It's a valid point. Whether the McNeil quote is true or not is fairly irrelevant on the scale of things. The quote is claimed to come from around the time of the first trial - 1998. If it is the stand-alone quote which is usually quoted (as per the OP), did he mean it was an open secret by the time of the trial (1998), or at the time of the abuse, or somewhere in between? It is not clear. Also, it doesn't really matter. The abuse was being talked about and sung about at least a decade before that trial, so clearly and undoubtedly it was an open secret, so open that it had not even stayed within Parkhead.

The 'who said what' argument is one that will probably rumble on for eternity. There are bigger questions out there:

- Why for three decades was the narrative that Torbett returned only after Stein had died? Now we know he returned four years after being dismissed, the same year Stein left (1978).
- Which came first, Torbett's return or Stein's departure?
- If Torbett didn't return until 1978, why was he pictured at an awards ceremony in 1977?
- If Torbett was dismissed for abusing kids and Birt and Stein knew, why was he pictured at that awards ceremony in 1977 alongside Birt and Stein?
- There may well be simple answers to the above questions. There will also be a simple narrative that certain people know. Those people have not only stayed quiet, they have actively allowed waters to be muddied. Why?
- And arguably the biggest question of them all. Why have the press never ask these questions?
 
chosen few said:
Apart from compensation claims does anybody actually believe the SFA or Scottish assembley , will take any action against this vile organisation.
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I would doubt it, more like it they will try to give them an easy way to put all this behind them.
I wouldn't depend on these reptiles to do anything other than help that rancid club.
 
It’s a fact that child abuse occurred. What’s needed now is a root and branch investigation into the neglect of Celtics “duty of care” with respect to the children involved.

The recent distancing the club from the boys club as a separate entity is sinister and shameless. Let’s hope that for the victims case that this sham will be seen right through by any court and jury.

Celtic also changed their holding company name back in the 90’s didn’t they, I wonder if they also did this to further limit their liabilities should this scandal ever blow up in their faces.

Regardless of the legal entity shite, the SFA simply cannot hide behind that argument. Boys lives were ruined under the name of Celtic football club AND The SFA.

Sickening that there’s nothing from government on this and I may have missed it but has Lawwell pulled rank on Dornan and shut him up?
 
Fitba Juice said:
So without proof you can't go to the police but you can sack him?
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It’s not up to the man on the street to gather proof. It’s up to the police.

If he did the rightful thing, brought the police in, it’s almost certain other kids wouldn’t have been abused and the beasts would have been locked up before now.

Hiding the crime, is as bad as the crime as it enables further crimes to be committed.

Anyone that knew what was going on and didn’t report it are scum.

Oh and as a side point, how can an employee have the power to sack someone from a different company???
 
Aspley1 Ger said:
Scotland on Sunday 18/08/1996

"To Jim Torbett's credit he phoned Jock Stein and admitted the offences," Cairney recalls. "Jock called a meeting at Celtic Park, which he chaired. He took all the financial statements off him and led him to the door. Torbett started crying. Jock's words were: 'Never mind the ****ing Hollywood stuff' and opened the door and said to him 'If it wasn't for these boys you'd be going to jail for a long while'. He opened the door and kicked him in the backside right out.
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Cairney quoted as giving Torbett “credit” for admitting it :eek:

Why the cops were never called is an absolute disgrace. Disgusting club more interested in keeping the name of Celtic “clean” than protecting innocents.

That place should be bulldozed and their name erased from history
 
Non entity FC are scum.

Trying to protect the name of the club, over the abuse of children, is just indefensible.

They deserve no mercy.
 
Le Big Bear Bum said:
I can assure you it was being sung in the 80s. I even have an old cassette from the mid-80s with a song referencing it.
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I very much doubt it.

Rangers fans need to be careful not to get carried away here and stick to the facts. The Rangers support was not singing about the Boys Club scandal in the 1980's precisely because it hadn't made the public domain and wouldn't do so until the 1990's.
 
Taki said:
I very much doubt it.

Rangers fans need to be careful not to get carried away here and stick to the facts. The Rangers support was not singing about the Boys Club scandal in the 1980's precisely because it hadn't made the public domain and wouldn't do so until the 1990's.
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Rumours made the public domain in '86 when the celtc view published a report into what they described as "scurrilous" accusations. I believe the rhecord had this on their front page last week. Obviously a far wider audience was made aware in the 90's.
 
deedle said:
Billy McNeil said, on oath in a court of law, "It was an open secret at Parkhead"

This doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the report. Did McNeill actually give testimony or was the allegation not that he commented in the press after the trial had taken place?
Click to expand...

I'm almost sure it was an interveiw in the Evening Times. (IIRC)
 
weetam3106 said:
It’s a fact that child abuse occurred. What’s needed now is a root and branch investigation into the neglect of Celtics “duty of care” with respect to the children involved.

The recent distancing the club from the boys club as a separate entity is sinister and shameless. Let’s hope that for the victims case that this sham will be seen right through by any court and jury.

Celtic also changed their holding company name back in the 90’s didn’t they, I wonder if they also did this to further limit their liabilities should this scandal ever blow up in their faces.

Regardless of the legal entity shite, the SFA simply cannot hide behind that argument. Boys lives were ruined under the name of Celtic football club AND The SFA.

Sickening that there’s nothing from government on this and I may have missed it but has Lawwell pulled rank on Dornan and shut him up?
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I like your ‘duty of care’ angle, this sound like a Health & Safety issue now.
 
Harthill Bill said:
So not in a court of law then?
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I researched this for quite a while years ago and I’m sure it was in a newspaper interview as well.

I’m not sure if McNeil was cited for the initial Torbett trial but it will be in the court transcripts if he said it. They should be available even if partially redacted.
 
From what I’m remember McNeill gave evidence in court and stated the abuse was an open secret. The court asked him if Stein knew, he replied aye and a chant was born
 
GREGRFC said:
I researched this for quite a while years ago and I’m sure it was in a newspaper interview as well.

I’m not sure if McNeil was cited for the initial Torbett trial but it will be in the court transcripts if he said it. They should be available even if partially redacted.
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I've also researched this extensively and there are doubts if McNeil was even called as a witness let alone say it was an open secret under oath.

This was discussed in some depth back in 2013 on the old board...

superger
18-03-2013, 22:52

The McBungle Evening Times quote is definitely from outside the Courtroom. It was Hugh Birt that swore under oath in Court that Stein and the Shellik board all knew about Torbett and ordered a cover up.
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The_Gub
18-03-2013, 22:55

That rings true. Also, I doubt McNeill was a witness.
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I suspect McNeil may well have said it outside court, but have serious doubts that he said it in a courtroom under oath - hence the reason why no one can find it.
 
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j1m1c said:
I'm almost sure it was an interveiw in the Evening Times. (IIRC)
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The date quoted previously was 13th November 1998 in the Evening Times.

I checked this out at the Mitchell and it wasn't there.

Many of the pics you see on here now of Torbett with the Boys Club players and Tommy Burns with Cairney are photographs I took some years ago on a visit to the Mitchell Library in Glasgow.
 
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chosen few said:
Apart from compensation claims does anybody actually believe the SFA or Scottish assembley , will take any action against this vile organisation.
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Not at the moment but if it gets enough coverage ie., England , Europe and Worldwide then they would be shamed into doing something . At the moment they are as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike .
 
Brazilbear said:
There also seems to be a few different photos I have seen on this forum of Jimmy Saville with Roman Catholic clergy and a representative of them. He was a RC as well. Do we even know how often he went there? I don't think it was for the football, do you? The RC cult has previous form for the rape of nuns and of course murder, for hundreds of years. It is not beyond reason to believe that from the outset there was child abuse at this club or those who worked there, were doing it. Full investigation required, going back for as long as it can.
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Savile was Jewish, he just let everyone believe he was a Catholic.
 
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