Born on this day, the 2 greatest goalscorers in Rangers history.

I’m sure one was a penalty, but he was clearly making a statement to Souness to drop him at his peril because he was still the main man - the top scorer in Scottish football that season, IIRC, with 27 goals in all competitions (not including his GCF hat-trick) in what was one of the worst Rangers campaigns in living memory.
In one way 1985/86 stands alone.

I'm pretty certain it is the only time in our history we lost more league games than we won.
 
Only the 200 goals behind McCoist :)

But a much shorter Rangers career. Forrest is second only to Jimmy Smith for goals per game ratio of every player in Rangers history who started at least 100 games.
Well there you go then,where’s Forrest? ;)
 
The 2 greatest goalscorers in the 150 year history of our great club share the same birthday.

Jimmy Smith, born September 24th 1911.
381 goals for Rangers*, his debut in March 1929 and his last appearance in May 1946.

Ally McCoist, born September 24th 1962.
362 goals for Rangers*, his debut in August 1983 and his last appearance in May 1998.

2 absolute legends, with the medals and the Hall of Fame membership to go along with their goals.
I doubt we will see anyone score more for Rangers in another 150 years.

*goals in both the Glasgow and Charity Cups included,as well as those in the various wartime competitions for Smith. A competitive Rangers goal is a competitive Rangers goal.
Jim Forrest scored 146 in 166 games over three seasons as a young lad, that statistic puts him right in there as an argument for our greatest goal scorer. He's at least on a level with Smith and McCoist
 
What doesn't count in official records?

I genuinely believe you are getting your thoughts mixed up with Rangers not counting our WW2 efforts as official.

We're not arguing here, just debating.

McCoist's hat trick in the 86 GC final counts in his offical scoring record, as it was an official first team game. It's inconceivable that they don't count for all the scorers who went before him.
Glasgow cup games don’t count in official records, hence Ally having 355 rather than 362,
 
Glasgow cup games don’t count in official records, hence Ally having 355 rather than 362,
I'm still not getting your argument and truly I'm not trying to be obtuse.

It's widely accepted that McCoist scored 27 goals against the yahoos.

Not tonight, but give me a list of them at your leisure. If you don't count that GC final in 86 you will fall three short.

I simply do not get your argument that Glasgow Cup goals don't count in official scoring records. I've never read that in any Rangers history book. Robert McElroy certainly wouldn't agree with you.

Going slightly off tangent.

Alex (Tony) Venters is accredited with scoring 22 official goals (I think) against Celtic. Given that he never played against them in the Scottish Cup, and the League Cup hadn't been invented, are you telling me Alex Venters scored 22 league goals against them? That would surely put him in a league of his own.

Honestly, I think you are getting slightly mixed up here.
 
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I'm still not getting your argument and truly I'm not trying to be obtuse.

It's widely accepted that McCoist scored 27 goals against the yahoos.

Not tonight, but give me a list of them at your leisure. If you don't count that GC final in 86 you will fall three short.

I simply do not get your argument that Glasgow Cup goals don't count in official scoring records. I've never read that in any Rangers history book. Robert McElroy certainly wouldn't agree with you.

Going slightly off tangent.

Alex (Tony) Venters is accredited with scoring 22 official goals (I think) against Celtic. Given that he never played against them in the Scottish Cup, and the League Cup hadn't been invented, are you telling me Alex Venters scored 22 league goals against them? That would surely put him in a league of his own.

Honestly, I think you are getting slightly mixed up here.
Simply put, Ally’s GC goals aren’t counted.

Hence every record book saying 355, rather than 362. I’m not trying to be a prick, but the factually don’t count.

@dh1963 made a good argument as to why they should be, but right now, they officially aren’t.
 
Simply put, Ally’s GC goals aren’t counted.

Hence every record book saying 355, rather than 362. I’m not trying to be a prick, but the factually don’t count.

@dh1963 made a good argument as to why they should be, but right now, they officially aren’t.
We're going round in circles here and I'm for the off.

Put simply, The hat trick Ally McCoist scored against timbo in the GC final of 1986 counts in Ally's official 27 goals against the yahoos.

Prove me wrong.

But I'll get back to you tomorrow when Tipping Point is on.
 
We're going round in circles here and I'm for the off.

Put simply, The hat trick Ally McCoist scored against timbo in the GC final of 1986 counts in Ally's official 27 goals against the yahoos.

Prove me wrong.

But I'll get back to you tomorrow when Tipping Point is on.
Fair play Gub!.
 
Simply put, Ally’s GC goals aren’t counted.

Hence every record book saying 355, rather than 362. I’m not trying to be a prick, but the factually don’t count.

@dh1963 made a good argument as to why they should be, but right now, they officially aren’t.
You seem determined to turn what should be a joyous Birthday celebration of the two Legends who have scored the most Goals in our entire history, into a petty and persistent argument of what is, and is not Official.
Who actually determines what makes a Rangers Goal official?
Is it You?, is it Me? is it the SFA? is it the Celtic Chairman?

Since you sucked me in on your stance, here is a wee unofficial fact, that wont show up in the record books, or in your Official Rangers Bible,
but is certainly worthy of our knowledge and respect nonetheless.

As an 18 year old, Jimmy Smith went on Rangers North American tour in 1930, having made only 3 appearances (1 goal), in the previous two seasons.
The great Jimmy Fleming was our Centre Forward, having banged in 119 Goals in 126 Games,
in the previous three seasons.
His partner, Bob McPhail, had weighed in with 68 Goals in them three seasons (1927-30).
So the teenager Smith, would have to bide his time, to get a spot up front in this Rangers team.
Rangers had 14 games on this tour, and Mr Struth gave the boy Smith a run out in 7 of them.
In those 7 Games, the young Jimmy Smith scored a mindblowing 18 Goals!
None of them official, ofcourse, but certainly worth a mention, and an indication of here was a kid, that over the next 16 seasons, would score close to 400 Goals, in less than 400 Games.
I'm not sure what the official count is on Jimmy Smith, but official or not,
Jimmy Smith is the most prolific Goalscorer in our rich 150 Year History.
 
You seem determined to turn what should be a joyous Birthday celebration of the two Legends who have scored the most Goals in our entire history, into a petty and persistent argument of what is, and is not Official.
Who actually determines what makes a Rangers Goal official?
Is it You?, is it Me? is it the SFA? is it the Celtic Chairman?

Since you sucked me in on your stance, here is a wee unofficial fact, that wont show up in the record books, or in your Official Rangers Bible,
but is certainly worthy of our knowledge and respect nonetheless.

As an 18 year old, Jimmy Smith went on Rangers North American tour in 1930, having made only 3 appearances (1 goal), in the previous two seasons.
The great Jimmy Fleming was our Centre Forward, having banged in 119 Goals in 126 Games,
in the previous three seasons.
His partner, Bob McPhail, had weighed in with 68 Goals in them three seasons (1927-30).
So the teenager Smith, would have to bide his time, to get a spot up front in this Rangers team.
Rangers had 14 games on this tour, and Mr Struth gave the boy Smith a run out in 7 of them.
In those 7 Games, the young Jimmy Smith scored a mindblowing 18 Goals!
None of them official, ofcourse, but certainly worth a mention, and an indication of here was a kid, that over the next 16 seasons, would score close to 400 Goals, in less than 400 Games.
I'm not sure what the official count is on Jimmy Smith, but official or not,
Jimmy Smith is the most prolific Goalscorer in our rich 150 Year History.
I’m not intent on any argument, I was just making a very reasonable point :)).

Of course it is worthy of our respect, as I said earlier in the thread but I merely pointed out that they aren’t counted in any official goal tallies.

I think the official line for Smith is 249 in 250 odd games but I’d need to go back and check, which we can both agree - is a tremendous record, for a tremendous goal scorer.

(To answer your question, competitive goals are deemed official - GC goals aren’t deemed competitive by our club historians)

But we will leave it at that.
 
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Jeez, never imagined the OP would start such a long running argument!

I suppose the whole thing boils down to "official" versus "competitive".

Also suspect the debate splits opinion based on the age of the posters, us oldies more likely to agree with each other.

Anyway, their birthday now over, time to look forward to Alfredo joining the 100 goals club today.
 
I’m not intent on any argument, I was just making a very reasonable point :)).

Of course it is worthy of our respect, as I said earlier in the thread but I merely pointed out that they aren’t counted in any official goal tallies.

I think the official line for Smith is 249 in 250 odd games but I’d need to go back and check, which we can both agree - is a tremendous record, for a tremendous goal scorer.

(To answer your question, competitive goals are deemed official - GC goals aren’t deemed competitive by our club historians)

But we will leave it at that.
Name me the club historians who say that GC and by association Charity Cup goals scored by players do not count as official?

Apart from these historians, where have you read by the club that these goals don't count? Just give me the title of one book that has stated this? I genuinely have never heard of this.

I'll stand by what I said last night. I genuinely believe you are getting the WW2 period, which the club doesn't officially recognise, mixed up with everything else.
 
Name me the club historians who say that GC and by association Charity Cup goals scored by players do not count as official?

Apart from these historians, where have you read by the club that these goals don't count? Just give me the title of one book that has stated this? I genuinely have never heard of this.

I'll stand by what I said last night. I genuinely believe you are getting the WW2 period, which the club doesn't officially recognise, mixed up with everything else.
Simply put I’m not, DH1963 said earlier when he mentioned Ally’s tally of 362. He used the asterisk because the official tally, recognised is 355.

DH feels the GC goals should be counted, but right now they aren’t. Historians such as Robert McElroy, and several official books (I double checked yesterday) don’t either.

Another pointer, why aren’t the trophies counted in our official haul then?.

Anyway, I can’t be arsed arguing - the whole reason I made the original comment was because DH and I were discussing goal scorers in the Alfie thread.

Fair enough you disagree mate, won’t be discussing further as we are going round in circles and taking the thread off track.
 
Simply put I’m not, DH1963 said earlier when he mentioned Ally’s tally of 362. He used the asterisk because the official tally, recognised is 355.

DH feels the GC goals should be counted, but right now they aren’t. Historians such as Robert McElroy, and several official books (I double checked yesterday) don’t either.

Another pointer, why aren’t the trophies counted in our official haul then?.

Anyway, I can’t be arsed arguing - the whole reason I made the original comment was because DH and I were discussing goal scorers in the Alfie thread.

Fair enough you disagree mate, won’t be discussing further as we are going round in circles and taking the thread off track.
This is my last point on the subject and it's not meant as a 'last word'.

Nowhere in The Complete Record, The Spirit of Ibrox, or the many editions of The Rangers Historian has Robert McElroy mentioned or stated that GC goals do not count in a player's official goal count.

So we'll leave it at that.

Let's just get three points today.
 
In terms of historical records, How can the goals count but the trophy doesn't?

Here endeth the argument. McCoist is on 355 end of.

Enjoy the game today auld yins.
 
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