GazzaNumber8
Well-Known Member
Shes shat it , like the rest.
not got the balls for a legal fight
not got the balls for a legal fight
Budge out on a limb at 10.00am tomorrow
- Thread starter jaws73
- Start date
rupertdabear
Well-Known Member
strange one indeed if our board don't push it on .
think maybe waiting on the tarts jumping in first for they have more to lose but if they don't ,i'd expect we will only would nt bet on it tbh .
every one of us knew we weren't getting 75% to get the inquiry.thats the only reason we even got the vote at all but if we let this drop we will be sitting like scolded children in the naughty corner.
can't see us letting it drop as easy as some would like .
no surrender
rupertdabear
Well-Known Member
have you seen the figures at some of the matches even in the spl .would pay to set up a camcorder
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
IF we don’t get tore in we’ll never be taken seriously - at governing body level - again.
I’ve still got faith in Douglas Park to keep fighting.
If possible I’d happily see Rangers bankrupt The SPFL.
rupertdabear
Well-Known Member
i'm with you on that,we are playing a good game and as you say bankrupt them if need be .
no reserves they say ….sounds ideal for a perfect storm
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
i'm with you on that,we are playing a good game and as you say bankrupt them if need be .
no reserves they say ….sounds ideal for a perfect storm
If we’ve got 28 days to cast our vote re the Budge resolution, I’d hope 5he club take them.
If mouthing else, just to be awkward.
Reconstruction is just a pander to two less significant clubs. Awarding a title is worth 2 times what we can hope to achieve in Europe. They all awarded the 19th Century Terrorists the money, let the fucking lot suffer.
Those governing the game still fiddle while Rome burns and don't seem to have a clue what they are doing whilst Budge (as predicted) appears to be getting nowhere.
SPFL line up showdown summit as Hearts Championship talks drag on for THREE hours
Scotland’s 10 second tier clubs held mammoth meeting on Monday as Ann Budge prepares to show her hand.
League bosses are set to call an emergency board meeting in the next 48 hours to discuss the next step in the crisis facing Hearts.
Record Sport understands SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster will call the meeting on Wednesday or Thursday of this week after another dramatic day of video conference calls on Monday pushed the relegated Tynecastle club closer to a nightmare scenario of being locked out of football’s big restart.
All 10 Championship clubs met online for more than three hours into the afternoon as they attempt to thrash out a way for Scotland’s second tier to survive the coronavirus pandemic.
And, as we revealed on Sunday night, the majority of them remain resigned to being unable to afford to start the season behind closed doors.
A number of them do believe, however, the season can begin as soon as a the government allows a percentage of fans to get back into their grounds. And they are hopeful that could see the Championship slowly get back to business by October or November.
But Record Sport can also reveal the safe return of supporters has not even reached the discussion stage as football and Holyrood attempt to agree on a potential pathway out of the other side of the Covid-19 lockdown.
Those conversations will gather pace on Tuesday when Scottish football’s Joint Response Group officially hand over to government an action plan, in which detailed proposals as to how to get the national sport back up and running will be mapped out.
But, while these phased stages will centre around how players can get back to training and then return to playing matches behind closed doors, there is no plan for how and when supporters might be allowed back in through the turnstiles.
A Championship representative said: “The clubs had a good, productive conversation and we all want to find a solution to the obvious problems we face in starting next season.
“None of us think it’s a good idea to shut the division down until the new year. But, at the same time, there’s a realisation that a large number of the clubs will be in no position to play on behind closed doors.
“The feeling is, if we can get to a point when maybe 25 per cent of the stadia will be open to supporters, then we will be able to play. The hope is that could perhaps come some time by October or November but there’s obviously so much uncertainty at this time.”
But that will do little to ease anxiety levels surrounding Hearts, following the controversial decision to relegate them from the top flight without completing season’s 2019/20 fixtures.
Owner Ann Budge had been expected to circulated a plan for league reconstruction following Monday’s discussions with the her nine Championship rivals but no new paper has been shared around Scotland’s 42 clubs.
But the SPFL board will be hoping that Budge does finally hand over her document ahead of their next crisis talks later this week.
One Hampden source told us: “The board will be briefed about the discussions between the Championship clubs on Monday morning. But they will also want to see exactly what Hearts are proposing because, for more than a week now,the expectation was that this new reconstruction paper would be produced as a matter of urgency.”
SPFL line up showdown summit as Hearts Championship talks drag on for THREE hours
Scotland’s 10 second tier clubs held mammoth meeting on Monday as Ann Budge prepares to show her hand.
League bosses are set to call an emergency board meeting in the next 48 hours to discuss the next step in the crisis facing Hearts.
Record Sport understands SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster will call the meeting on Wednesday or Thursday of this week after another dramatic day of video conference calls on Monday pushed the relegated Tynecastle club closer to a nightmare scenario of being locked out of football’s big restart.
All 10 Championship clubs met online for more than three hours into the afternoon as they attempt to thrash out a way for Scotland’s second tier to survive the coronavirus pandemic.
And, as we revealed on Sunday night, the majority of them remain resigned to being unable to afford to start the season behind closed doors.
A number of them do believe, however, the season can begin as soon as a the government allows a percentage of fans to get back into their grounds. And they are hopeful that could see the Championship slowly get back to business by October or November.
But Record Sport can also reveal the safe return of supporters has not even reached the discussion stage as football and Holyrood attempt to agree on a potential pathway out of the other side of the Covid-19 lockdown.
Those conversations will gather pace on Tuesday when Scottish football’s Joint Response Group officially hand over to government an action plan, in which detailed proposals as to how to get the national sport back up and running will be mapped out.
But, while these phased stages will centre around how players can get back to training and then return to playing matches behind closed doors, there is no plan for how and when supporters might be allowed back in through the turnstiles.
A Championship representative said: “The clubs had a good, productive conversation and we all want to find a solution to the obvious problems we face in starting next season.
“None of us think it’s a good idea to shut the division down until the new year. But, at the same time, there’s a realisation that a large number of the clubs will be in no position to play on behind closed doors.
“The feeling is, if we can get to a point when maybe 25 per cent of the stadia will be open to supporters, then we will be able to play. The hope is that could perhaps come some time by October or November but there’s obviously so much uncertainty at this time.”
But that will do little to ease anxiety levels surrounding Hearts, following the controversial decision to relegate them from the top flight without completing season’s 2019/20 fixtures.
Owner Ann Budge had been expected to circulated a plan for league reconstruction following Monday’s discussions with the her nine Championship rivals but no new paper has been shared around Scotland’s 42 clubs.
But the SPFL board will be hoping that Budge does finally hand over her document ahead of their next crisis talks later this week.
One Hampden source told us: “The board will be briefed about the discussions between the Championship clubs on Monday morning. But they will also want to see exactly what Hearts are proposing because, for more than a week now,the expectation was that this new reconstruction paper would be produced as a matter of urgency.”
That is a scary read for many Scottish teams and i would be very worried if I was outside the SPL.
Hearts could be finished
The only way they will achieve that now is legal action.
Watty1979
Well-Known Member
Never mind, they can all facetime each other and have a good giggle about zombies, sevco, etc.
Don,t think they have the balls for legal action .personally think they are all talk.
After his last 2 games against us it wouldn’t surprise me if SG would be tempted.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
If do t understand how a relegated club can be brought back in ( using 2912 as a sort of barometer- Dunfermline).
Surely it would be the ICT’s & Dundee’s who’d come up
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
HMFC Kickback just now:
The SPFL and lots of clubs are desperate to get Ann’s proposal ASAP so they can kick it out.
“Ann just make them wait .... slowly clubs will die one by one and the remainder will be desperate for survival ...... just make them wait until they promise to vote yes and do it it the Hearts way - Gorgie Rules!
And if so many clubs die that Scottish football ceases to exist in its current format just walk away and find somewhere else to play! A club like Hearts will be a major asset to any league!”
The SPFL and lots of clubs are desperate to get Ann’s proposal ASAP so they can kick it out.
“Ann just make them wait .... slowly clubs will die one by one and the remainder will be desperate for survival ...... just make them wait until they promise to vote yes and do it it the Hearts way - Gorgie Rules!
And if so many clubs die that Scottish football ceases to exist in its current format just walk away and find somewhere else to play! A club like Hearts will be a major asset to any league!”
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Watty1979
Well-Known Member
You'd maybe think so and I have posted similar i.e. why should hearts be saved? If Celtic are champions then hearts should go down regardless of reconstruction.
But i doubt they are doing this for dundee, ICT...
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
A top sports lawyer insists Hearts are in for a difficult ride should they choose to take legal action against the SPFL following the resolution to end the season early.
Chairman Ann Budge has threatened court proceedings following her club's 'unjust' relegation to the Championship. However the circumstances surrounding the issue - namely the coronaviruspandemic - has created a situation that would make it tough for Hearts to succeed.
David Winnie, a former Hearts and Aberdeen defender turned legal mind with London firm Charles Douglas Solicitors, says his former side would struggle to make a valid case against their relegation. Especially after the decision to end the current campaign was unanimous and the capital club voted in favour themselves. Mr Winnie believes that may be one of the biggest factors which could work against Hearts in court, should it go so far.
"It would depend on the wording on the resolution as to what ending the season would entail," Winnie told Herald and Times Sport. "[Did Hearts vote for the league ending] with a view to reconstruction? That's something that, if Hearts are to commence proceedings, that would probably come out. It would certainly be asked, 'Why did you vote for this?' I don't know what was tabled exactly, but it's an argument that could be used against Hearts."
If the Jambos have any chance of winning a potential case against the SPFL, Winnie believes it could come down to Dundee's phantom 'No' vote. Another potential route to legal victory could be that each club voted for the end in their own best interests. That, according to Winnie, could be viewed as going against their contractual obligation to act with a duty of care towards the other members.
"I really feel for them in this situation," he added. "It's one that none of the other clubs in the Premiership would want to find themselves in. In any other set of circumstances it would be fairly straightforward but we're in fairly unprecedented times. You can't account for what has happened but I think the SPFL and its members have made the right decision under the circumstances.
"If clubs are honest about it, there's no other viable alternative than to call it a day. If Hearts were therefore to go down a legal route, what cause of action would they have? If it's found the voting process on the resolution that Dundee was involved in, if the process was wrong or done in an improper fashion, that might have been Hearts' best shot.
"Another potential avenue, albeit a slim one, is that each club is a member so they have a contractual agreement with the SPFL and each other. They've got a duty to act towards each other in the utmost good faith. With this points per game basis, if clubs are voting on that in their own self-interest, potentially they're not acting in utmost good faith towards other clubs. It's a difficult one, it would be a difficult argument to run.
"They could possibly legally object that the resolution is unfairly prejudicial to its interest. Here, potentially, you could suggest that Hearts have been relegated, they'll lose millions from this and the vote has been prejudicial. It is difficult to run but could be seen that way because they've been relegated as a result of points per game.
"If they go to the Court of Session in Edinburgh, I think monies have already been paid to clubs but they could maybe seek an interim interdict to have things frozen while the case is considered. They are going to go to court to seek damages in any event, whether it's for monies lost as a result of the decision."
Hearts stand to lose millions, whatever happens, but are likely to seek damages even if they do not go the whole nine yards with a legal battle against the SPFL. A course of action, Mr Winnie says, most if not all other clubs in Scottish football's top tier would take in the same circumstances.
He even points at Rangers' financial turmoil in 2012 and the fallout from that to suggest that no club in the country is in a position to take the current climate lightly. Or take their own coffers for granted. "Hearts will lose millions out of this and that's a remedy they could ask the court to give them," Winnie went on. "I don't know how much they'll lose but they could simply ask the court what the damages may be, because they might not come back up straight away, it could have long-lasting effects. That's the real issue for them, the financial hit they're going to take as a result of this.
"Hearts are a great club in Scotland, a footballing institution in the country. Everyone has been hit by this pandemic and Hearts, like everyone else, are members of the SPFL and they agreed, when becoming part of the members club, to abide by the decisions made.
"But any other CEO in Ann Budge's position would do the same for their club. They'll be saying, 'There but for the grace of God', that it is not them in this position. They would be staring down the barrel of a gun like Hearts are right now. They would probably be considering doing exactly the same thing. They might not go the whole hog but I can guarantee they'd all consider it.
"Given the financial hit they're going to take. Scotland needs clubs like Hearts in its top league, there's no getting round that. But are they entitled to be there as of right, on merit? You can look at the situation with Rangers when they folded and had to start down the bottom again. No club is immune in Scotland.
"People are jumping up and down about it but I can understand why Hearts are going down this route. Will they be successful? It'll be difficult under the circumstances."
Chairman Ann Budge has threatened court proceedings following her club's 'unjust' relegation to the Championship. However the circumstances surrounding the issue - namely the coronaviruspandemic - has created a situation that would make it tough for Hearts to succeed.
David Winnie, a former Hearts and Aberdeen defender turned legal mind with London firm Charles Douglas Solicitors, says his former side would struggle to make a valid case against their relegation. Especially after the decision to end the current campaign was unanimous and the capital club voted in favour themselves. Mr Winnie believes that may be one of the biggest factors which could work against Hearts in court, should it go so far.
"It would depend on the wording on the resolution as to what ending the season would entail," Winnie told Herald and Times Sport. "[Did Hearts vote for the league ending] with a view to reconstruction? That's something that, if Hearts are to commence proceedings, that would probably come out. It would certainly be asked, 'Why did you vote for this?' I don't know what was tabled exactly, but it's an argument that could be used against Hearts."
If the Jambos have any chance of winning a potential case against the SPFL, Winnie believes it could come down to Dundee's phantom 'No' vote. Another potential route to legal victory could be that each club voted for the end in their own best interests. That, according to Winnie, could be viewed as going against their contractual obligation to act with a duty of care towards the other members.
"I really feel for them in this situation," he added. "It's one that none of the other clubs in the Premiership would want to find themselves in. In any other set of circumstances it would be fairly straightforward but we're in fairly unprecedented times. You can't account for what has happened but I think the SPFL and its members have made the right decision under the circumstances.
"If clubs are honest about it, there's no other viable alternative than to call it a day. If Hearts were therefore to go down a legal route, what cause of action would they have? If it's found the voting process on the resolution that Dundee was involved in, if the process was wrong or done in an improper fashion, that might have been Hearts' best shot.
"Another potential avenue, albeit a slim one, is that each club is a member so they have a contractual agreement with the SPFL and each other. They've got a duty to act towards each other in the utmost good faith. With this points per game basis, if clubs are voting on that in their own self-interest, potentially they're not acting in utmost good faith towards other clubs. It's a difficult one, it would be a difficult argument to run.
"They could possibly legally object that the resolution is unfairly prejudicial to its interest. Here, potentially, you could suggest that Hearts have been relegated, they'll lose millions from this and the vote has been prejudicial. It is difficult to run but could be seen that way because they've been relegated as a result of points per game.
"If they go to the Court of Session in Edinburgh, I think monies have already been paid to clubs but they could maybe seek an interim interdict to have things frozen while the case is considered. They are going to go to court to seek damages in any event, whether it's for monies lost as a result of the decision."
Hearts stand to lose millions, whatever happens, but are likely to seek damages even if they do not go the whole nine yards with a legal battle against the SPFL. A course of action, Mr Winnie says, most if not all other clubs in Scottish football's top tier would take in the same circumstances.
He even points at Rangers' financial turmoil in 2012 and the fallout from that to suggest that no club in the country is in a position to take the current climate lightly. Or take their own coffers for granted. "Hearts will lose millions out of this and that's a remedy they could ask the court to give them," Winnie went on. "I don't know how much they'll lose but they could simply ask the court what the damages may be, because they might not come back up straight away, it could have long-lasting effects. That's the real issue for them, the financial hit they're going to take as a result of this.
"Hearts are a great club in Scotland, a footballing institution in the country. Everyone has been hit by this pandemic and Hearts, like everyone else, are members of the SPFL and they agreed, when becoming part of the members club, to abide by the decisions made.
"But any other CEO in Ann Budge's position would do the same for their club. They'll be saying, 'There but for the grace of God', that it is not them in this position. They would be staring down the barrel of a gun like Hearts are right now. They would probably be considering doing exactly the same thing. They might not go the whole hog but I can guarantee they'd all consider it.
"Given the financial hit they're going to take. Scotland needs clubs like Hearts in its top league, there's no getting round that. But are they entitled to be there as of right, on merit? You can look at the situation with Rangers when they folded and had to start down the bottom again. No club is immune in Scotland.
"People are jumping up and down about it but I can understand why Hearts are going down this route. Will they be successful? It'll be difficult under the circumstances."
Ergo if Hearts don't remain in the second tier then Celtic's title award should immediately be rescinded.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
null & void was always the fairest and safest option for the clubs.
Don't think that is true. Winnie must have bought the mhedia line on this.
If it is true then Budge's incompetence knows no bounds.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
A major asset in any league thats a good one mentalists.
Sam English
Well-Known Member
Nail on the head.
This is the route I thought Rangers might go down once all remedies have already been sought via football authorities. An action that can involve a few clubs but can't be by a majority of the shareholders - i.e it could jointly be taken by the 13 who voted with our resolution for example, or indeed any number of them..
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
The Friday meeting of the Premiership clubs that agreed the season could not be played to a conclusion was a mere talking shop. A sop to let Cormack argue he’d got a concession from Doncaster. The SPFL Board, the only body who mattered, had already been empowered by the Good Friday vote to end the league any old time they liked. The Premiership clubs could have met and agreed 12-0 that the season shouldn’t be concluded and the SPFL Board would STILL have been able to gift the Dhims the title the following Monday.
That Friday meeting was nothing more than an informal gathering.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
I’m desperate for Rangers to take The SPFL to court IF there is a chance we can get them.
Don’t know owt about how we’d go about it, but feel we need to throw a few hooks.
Yes, that's what I thought.
If you remove Winnie's erroneous assertion in this regard he is in fact stating Hearts have a case (one that can't be challenged on those grounds).
SPFL board to discuss Hearts' reconstruction plan on Wednesday
The SPFL board will meet on Wednesday to discuss a league reconstruction plan put forward by Hearts owner Ann Budge.
Hearts, relegated when the Scottish Premiership was called last week, are expected to circulate their proposal to clubs on Wednesday morning.
Budge can either seek SPFL board support for the plan or enlist two other clubs to requisition an EGM.
After original talks failed, Budge is plotting a temporary revamp with an expanded top tier including Hearts.
Should the suggested reconstruction stick with the current 42 teams, it would require nine of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, along with eight in the Championship and 15 across Leagues One and Two.
Hearts have dismissed fears they face financial ruin next season if they fail to overturn their demotion to the second tier.
In the wake of their relegation, Hearts said no club "should be unfairly penalised" amid the coronavirus pandemic and are continuing to take legal advice.
Partick Thistle and Stranraer have also been relegated from the Championship and League One respectively, after the season was curtailed.
Hearts joined Championship clubs on Monday for talks about the new campaign, with Ayr United and Queen of the South having gone public with concerns over the financial viability of playing behind closed doors.
The SPFL and Scottish FA will meet government figures on Friday to with a view to resuming football in August and a return to training on 10 June.
The game has been suspended indefinitely since 13 March amid the coronavirus crisis, but SFA chief executive Ian Maxwell says an August return is "definitely achievable".
The SPFL board will meet on Wednesday to discuss a league reconstruction plan put forward by Hearts owner Ann Budge.
Hearts, relegated when the Scottish Premiership was called last week, are expected to circulate their proposal to clubs on Wednesday morning.
Budge can either seek SPFL board support for the plan or enlist two other clubs to requisition an EGM.
After original talks failed, Budge is plotting a temporary revamp with an expanded top tier including Hearts.
Should the suggested reconstruction stick with the current 42 teams, it would require nine of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, along with eight in the Championship and 15 across Leagues One and Two.
Hearts have dismissed fears they face financial ruin next season if they fail to overturn their demotion to the second tier.
In the wake of their relegation, Hearts said no club "should be unfairly penalised" amid the coronavirus pandemic and are continuing to take legal advice.
Partick Thistle and Stranraer have also been relegated from the Championship and League One respectively, after the season was curtailed.
Hearts joined Championship clubs on Monday for talks about the new campaign, with Ayr United and Queen of the South having gone public with concerns over the financial viability of playing behind closed doors.
The SPFL and Scottish FA will meet government figures on Friday to with a view to resuming football in August and a return to training on 10 June.
The game has been suspended indefinitely since 13 March amid the coronavirus crisis, but SFA chief executive Ian Maxwell says an August return is "definitely achievable".
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