Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

Abercrombie

Well-Known Member
It would also seem apparent that Celtc didn't inform the police - (at least in every instance)

Surely not informing the police - when you are aware of a crime being committed - is also an offence in itself

I know police have been involved in the prosecution of those already brought to trial - but I've long since wondered where they are in the cover-up process that's taken place & why they haven't taken investigations into Celtc further ?

Great post - by the way

EDIT - Of course the SFA are also obliged to inform the police
Of course it is, esp when you pay people to stay schtuum, to hide said offences. It’s called Attempting To Pervert The Course Of Justice.
 
Just watched a program on BBC I player called roll Red roll about American High school football team players raping an underage girl. It was all hushed up cos the football team in Steubenville Ohio was the most important thing in the town, the victim simply didn't matter. It took an investigative journalist (like daly) to expose this and it snowballed. Eventually the guys were jailed. But at the end it tells you that the police also went after those who knew and covered it up for the good of the team and they were also jailed retrospectively. A lot of similarities - if only one brave and honest and moral journalist would link the dots, a lot of guilty men would be shittin themselves right now.
That must be a very difficult watch.
 

Sam English

Well-Known Member
I followed up this morning, on my previous e-mails to all the sponsors and Terre des hommes, and added the Ruth Davidson and Prof Tomkins' letters. Terre des hommes is the first to respond. They wrote back ...

'Dear johnkp,

Thank you for this update.

My colleagues in Lausanne, who are leading on the Child Safeguarding initiative have been in touch with UEFA which will now be taking this matter forward. If you would like to liaise with UEFA directly, please do contact them at: childsafeguarding@uefa.ch

Once again, thank you for reaching out to bring this to our attention.

With all best regards,

__________'
Excellent work, mate.
 

Zander73

Well-Known Member
Speaking to a contact at one of the major UK insurers today and he tells me that the claims are not being directed to Celtic’s insurers but the league insurers (SPL he said) who have a public liability policy where cover extends to child abuse.
I am not sure how significant this is as he also said he would expect any insurer to challenge claims where there was awareness or knowledge which wasn’t notified on a timely basis regardless who held the policy but this might explain why the SFA/SPFL have been very quiet.
Maybe someone should start asking Doncaster some difficult questions.
Who’s your contact?
 
Speaking to a contact at one of the major UK insurers today and he tells me that the claims are not being directed to Celtic’s insurers but the league insurers (SPL he said) who have a public liability policy where cover extends to child abuse.
I am not sure how significant this is as he also said he would expect any insurer to challenge claims where there was awareness or knowledge which wasn’t notified on a timely basis regardless who held the policy but this might explain why the SFA/SPFL have been very quiet.
Maybe someone should start asking Doncaster some difficult questions.
Questions should have been asked of Dungcaster before now. Not that Lawwell would let him talk right enough.
 
Seems that Peter Lawell picks who he wants to talk to, as we know he has not replied to 2 requests from Adam Tomkins MSP but he has replied to James Kelly MSP I have a copy of email dated 11th June still saying he can't speak of anything just now wish I had a number for MSP's who have contacted this snake I have it at at least 3 so far
Have you heard anything about the Sun running that article about the scum securities fraud and non disclosure?
 
This
Speaking to a contact at one of the major UK insurers today and he tells me that the claims are not being directed to Celtic’s insurers but the league insurers (SPL he said) who have a public liability policy where cover extends to child abuse.
I am not sure how significant this is as he also said he would expect any insurer to challenge claims where there was awareness or knowledge which wasn’t notified on a timely basis regardless who held the policy but this might explain why the SFA/SPFL have been very quiet.
Maybe someone should start asking Doncaster some difficult questions.[/Q
 

gersandproud

Well-Known Member
Of course it is, esp when you pay people to stay schtuum, to hide said offences. It’s called Attempting To Pervert The Course Of Justice.
Exactly right - so I wonder why Scotland's finest seem to be ignoring this ?

It's beyond doubt - timmy knew what was going on - yet failed to report it -

It's also beyond doubt the funny polis haven't taken that rancid club to task despite having 40 years of opportunity

I wonder why not ?

Might just be they've got plenty to hide as well ?? Or are complicit to helping others cover up ? ALLEGEDLY
 
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Zander73

Well-Known Member
Speaking to a contact at one of the major UK insurers today and he tells me that the claims are not being directed to Celtic’s insurers but the league insurers (SPL he said) who have a public liability policy where cover extends to child abuse.
I am not sure how significant this is as he also said he would expect any insurer to challenge claims where there was awareness or knowledge which wasn’t notified on a timely basis regardless who held the policy but this might explain why the SFA/SPFL have been very quiet.
Maybe someone should start asking Doncaster some difficult questions.
Sorry mate but can I just ask you again. Please excuse me for asking as I’m not doubting you but so many people come on here saying about contacts.
The statement you made was it was the insurers of the SPL responsible with liability insurance?
Personally I don’t understand that. I’m not interested in the SFA. If your talking about the issue of the internal inquiry (coverup and damage limitation) then ok. Please could you enlighten me about what this contact knows? I personally don’t give a fck about SFA and spl liability insurance. I’m more interested in the criminal activity at Celtic. Like I said if it’s the internal bollocks your on about then ok.
 

alex wright

Well-Known Member
Not reporting the insurance investigation and potential liability on their financials to the LSE.
I'm by no means an expert on this sort of thing but surely you need to hold some sort of investigation to ascertain if there was potential for damages? You would then inform the relevant parties if you found that damages were a possibility.
 

alexg123

Well-Known Member
The guy who told me is English and would not appreciate the various changes in league bodies. As far as he is concerned it is the Scottish league body which holds the insurance policy.He referred to it as SPL.
Sorry it doesn’t make sense to you but based on my experience of the guy who told me I would be 99% sure it is accurate. It is not unusual for umbrella policies to cover other companies in a group or in this case members of an organisation.
Just thinking about how insurance companies work , so for instance if you were burgled and were claiming the insurance company for your losses , but the insurance company would ask you for a Police reference number surely to prove you had reported the crime to the police . My point is if the paedophilia at the Boy’s Club was not reported to the police to protect the good name of the club :rolleyes: then surely any insurance claims would or should be null and void or will they wangle some way round this to protect the good name of the despicable club :mad: .
 

alexg123

Well-Known Member
apologies if this has been posted before, i've had a quick read through of some off it and my heads ready to explode absolutely mind numbing, whats going on in this country. Have a read it will show how difficult a job it will be to get theses dirty basta*ds exposed

http://www.holliegreigjustice.uk/hgj/
Wow! that is horrific reading and a real eye-opener to what vile acts are going on in this Country and all the more reason that vile club from Hell should be closed down in the name of Human Decency :mad: .
 

Crispy Bacon

Well-Known Member
I'm by no means an expert on this sort of thing but surely you need to hold some sort of investigation to ascertain if there was potential for damages? You would then inform the relevant parties if you found that damages were a possibility.
An investigation into historic child abuse could affect share price massively, guilty or not. It needs to be disclosed to the correct people, or else it leaves the possibility of price manipulation.
 
Sorry mate but can I just ask you again. Please excuse me for asking as I’m not doubting you but so many people come on here saying about contacts.
The statement you made was it was the insurers of the SPL responsible with liability insurance?
Personally I don’t understand that. I’m not interested in the SFA. If your talking about the issue of the internal inquiry (coverup and damage limitation) then ok. Please could you enlighten me about what this contact knows? I personally don’t give a fck about SFA and spl liability insurance. I’m more interested in the criminal activity at Celtic. Like I said if it’s the internal bollocks your on about then ok.
My contact didn’t pass me the info expecting his name to appear on a football message board so I won’t be doing that.
He is a senior guy in the UK insurance industry who I have known for years and has experience of specialist sports insurance so I trust his info. It’s not a mate from the pub who handles my car insurance!
For me the interesting points are:
The Spfl are now directly involved since it is their insurance policy not Celtics policy that will be subject to any claims.
Celtic’s failure to notify of their awareness and knowledge of incidents which could give rise to claims should see the insurers reject claims.
If funds are not available from insurance to pay claims surely the lawyers will go after Celtic for compensation.
 

Frasermac52

Well-Known Member
Another response back this morning

Thanks for your email.



I too have been watching this situation.



I know that my colleague Adam Tompkins MSP (who represents the Glasgow region) is dealing with this issue and is in contact with the Management of Celtic Football club.



I will raise your email with him and please be assured this matter will not be allowed to be ‘brushed under the carpet’.



Best wishes
 
apologies if this has been posted before, i've had a quick read through of some off it and my heads ready to explode absolutely mind numbing, whats going on in this country. Have a read it will show how difficult a job it will be to get theses dirty basta*ds exposed

http://www.holliegreigjustice.uk/hgj/
Can I ask what exactly this is? I clicked on the link, but could not really make out what it was all about.
 

Hillheadbear

Goooooooooaaaaaaaaaaallllllllll
My contact didn’t pass me the info expecting his name to appear on a football message board so I won’t be doing that.
He is a senior guy in the UK insurance industry who I have known for years and has experience of specialist sports insurance so I trust his info. It’s not a mate from the pub who handles my car insurance!
For me the interesting points are:
The Spfl are now directly involved since it is their insurance policy not Celtics policy that will be subject to any claims.
Celtic’s failure to notify of their awareness and knowledge of incidents which could give rise to claims should see the insurers reject claims.
If funds are not available from insurance to pay claims surely the lawyers will go after Celtic for compensation.
I'm far from being an expert in insurance but this makes sense to me. I don't think it changes anything from Celtic's point of view but it does give other SPFL clubs a legitimate right to ask questions and especially if it is likely to give rise to an increase in premiums.

It also raises questions about this 'investigation'. Presumably, if Celtic were activating the SPFL insurance then the SPFL must have known about it. Were the other member clubs informed and, if so, what were they told? Would they also be told of the results of the investigation and whether that gave rise to any liability for them?

When I was an active partner with PwC, we were given fairly regular briefings on litigation against the firm because of the cost to the firm and the reputational damage. There are parallels with the possible cost to the SPFL and reputational damage to Scottish football.
 

nemessis

Well-Known Member
My contact didn’t pass me the info expecting his name to appear on a football message board so I won’t be doing that.
He is a senior guy in the UK insurance industry who I have known for years and has experience of specialist sports insurance so I trust his info. It’s not a mate from the pub who handles my car insurance!
For me the interesting points are:
The Spfl are now directly involved since it is their insurance policy not Celtics policy that will be subject to any claims.
Celtic’s failure to notify of their awareness and knowledge of incidents which could give rise to claims should see the insurers reject claims.
If funds are not available from insurance to pay claims surely the lawyers will go after Celtic for compensation.
Who are the Scumtics insurers ?
 

Hairybear

Well-Known Member
Why would other members of the SPL/SPFL want to be paying insurance for this kind of cover, if they didn't know about one club's secret investigation? Of course they had already cleared everybody before, in one of their other investigations. This was done, even though it had nothing to do with them, as they have always been separate from their bhoys. It is time the other clubs asked the questions.
 

Texas ranger

Well-Known Member
My contact didn’t pass me the info expecting his name to appear on a football message board so I won’t be doing that.
He is a senior guy in the UK insurance industry who I have known for years and has experience of specialist sports insurance so I trust his info. It’s not a mate from the pub who handles my car insurance!
For me the interesting points are:
The Spfl are now directly involved since it is their insurance policy not Celtics policy that will be subject to any claims.
Celtic’s failure to notify of their awareness and knowledge of incidents which could give rise to claims should see the insurers reject claims.
If funds are not available from insurance to pay claims surely the lawyers will go after Celtic for compensation.


The SPFL are involved you say ? Well this will be interesting if that is indeed the case.

https://stv.tv/sport/football/1424446-dave-king-on-transfers-takeover-panel-and-spfl-chairman/

“Alongside working for the SPFL, MacLellan is also on the board of Independent News and Media, an organisation partly owned by Celtic shareholders Dermot Desmond and Denis O'Brien.

"I just think his position is awkward," said King. "We can't control his election but certainly there is a clear conflict in terms of the work he is doing for two of the major shareholders in one of the other clubs in Scotland.

"It's a conflict position and it's going to be interesting to see how he handles it when sensitive issues come up throughout the season.”
 

johnkp

Well-Known Member
Why would other members of the SPL/SPFL want to be paying insurance for this kind of cover, if they didn't know about one club's secret investigation? Of course they had already cleared everybody before, in one of their other investigations. This was done, even though it had nothing to do with them, as they have always been separate from their bhoys. It is time the other clubs asked the questions.
I remember in 2013, when the SPL made the SFL 'an offer they couldn't refuse' there was a lot of negotiation back and forward where the former SFL clubs would not be liable for any damages incurred by the former SPL.

I thought they were talking about possible legal outcomes between Rangers and the SPL. Maybe they were looking at potential fallout from Celtic's crimes and misdemeanours.
 

Hairybear

Well-Known Member
I remember in 2013, when the SPL made the SFL 'an offer they couldn't refuse' there was a lot of negotiation back and forward where the former SFL clubs would not be liable for any damages incurred by the former SPL.

I thought they were talking about possible legal outcomes between Rangers and the SPL. Maybe they were looking at potential fallout from Celtic's crimes and misdemeanours.
Yes and led by who? As if we didn't know.
 
Any insurance company the covers child abuse should be under investigation themselves.
I'm not sure it needs to be "Child abuse cover", as Public Liability insurance would be the policy claimed? However, a Public Liability insurer will only pay out if they feel that nothing could have been done to prevent it or at least everything possible had been declared before cover was provided, we know that not to be the case. If the insurer rules that Celtic had been less than honest with any of the information then this would become a civil case between the abused and Celtic directly, then more than likely the criminal trials will start as Celtic rekon they're not liable and try to defend it paying out.
 

Tim Hunter

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
The SPFL are involved you say ? Well this will be interesting if that is indeed the case.

https://stv.tv/sport/football/1424446-dave-king-on-transfers-takeover-panel-and-spfl-chairman/

“Alongside working for the SPFL, MacLellan is also on the board of Independent News and Media, an organisation partly owned by Celtic shareholders Dermot Desmond and Denis O'Brien.

"I just think his position is awkward," said King. "We can't control his election but certainly there is a clear conflict in terms of the work he is doing for two of the major shareholders in one of the other clubs in Scotland.

"It's a conflict position and it's going to be interesting to see how he handles it when sensitive issues come up throughout the season.”
INM is in the process of being taken over by a Belgian company Mediahuis. So any conflict will end, unless of course Shifty McGifty is employed elsewhere by Desmond and O'Brien.
 

George Goudie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
INM is in the process of being taken over by a Belgian company Mediahuis. So any conflict will end, unless of course Shifty McGifty is employed elsewhere by Desmond and O'Brien.
He will still be a celtc lickspittle. The real conflict of interest in his statement is the one about Rangers supporters, where he says:

"I hate they bastard's".
 
Just as an aside, I’ve seen a few horror stories on here and they get “ likes “
I don’t think folks on here actually like the content, but are using the like button to agree with what has been said.
I know it’s 150 odd pages in, but you know how Timothy gets all offended.
You are 100% correct in this MB. I've said so in a couple of posts I've "liked" in the thread that "like" is the wrong thing - it makes me uncomfortable to "like" said post, It's more an agreement with the poster.
 

Zander73

Well-Known Member
Sent to uefa child safe guarding.

Dear sir/madam

I’m writing to you reference the recent revelations and going’s on at Celtic football club. As you are probably aware recently there have been convictions of child abuse and members of the Scottish Parliament now pushing for a full independent inquiry. This includes the leader of the opposition Ruth Davidson MSP. I am just wondering what you’re views are on this subject. I’m also led to believe that the London stock exchange (LSE) have been informed as the club have held a 2 year internal secret investigation (in their words) and not declared this. It was actually a Scottish newspaper that brought this to the public’s attention.
I’m quite confident after being in touch with my own local MP that a full independent inquiry will happen in due course.
Also attached is an email reply from Ruth Davidson MSP to myself and I would also like your view on this.


Thank you for writing to me with your concerns surrounding historical child abuse within Scottish football.

The reports that have emerged in recent years are extremely distressing, and while it is welcome that Jim Torbett and others have been convicted for their depraved acts, this issue clearly goes wider. Any further allegations of criminality must be swiftly investigated by the police so that further criminal proceedings can be brought where necessary.

The Scottish Football Association’s Chief Executive has apologised to those young people who suffered sexual abuse in football and I think he was right to do so. The Independent Review of Sexual Abuse in Scottish Football commissioned by the SFA found child protection policies at all levels were and still are not fit for purpose. The report has made a number of recommendations to address this and I believe they should be implemented as soon as possible. It is vital that we in Parliament play our part in holding the SFA and other bodies to account on this
Further to this, my colleague Adam Tomkins, MSP for Glasgow, has written to Ian Maxwell, chief executive of the SFA and to Peter Lawwell, chief executive of Celtic FC to seek urgent meetings on this subject. Through a series of criminal trials, we now know something of the scale of the abuse committed by a number of the men associated with Celtic boys’ club. What we do not know is what Celtic FC knew about these offences and when they knew it. These questions must now be independently and fully investigated and, if necessary, a compensation scheme should be established such as that set up earlier this year by Manchester City FC.

It is clear that victims of child abuse in football have been let down, and I very much hope Police Scotland, clubs and the SFA will give them the closure they need and the justice they deserve.

Please be assured the Scottish Conservatives will closely monitor developments on this matter over the coming weeks and months.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Ruth Davidson

Rt Hon Ruth Davidson MSP
Leader of the Scottish Conservatives
MSP for Edinburgh Central
Scottish Parliament



Thank you for taking the time to read my email and I look forward to your reply.
 
My contact didn’t pass me the info expecting his name to appear on a football message board so I won’t be doing that.
He is a senior guy in the UK insurance industry who I have known for years and has experience of specialist sports insurance so I trust his info. It’s not a mate from the pub who handles my car insurance!
For me the interesting points are:
The Spfl are now directly involved since it is their insurance policy not Celtics policy that will be subject to any claims.
Celtic’s failure to notify of their awareness and knowledge of incidents which could give rise to claims should see the insurers reject claims.
If funds are not available from insurance to pay claims surely the lawyers will go after Celtic for compensation.
i've wondered IF this were the case why SPFL and Not SFA , it is they who run national football and legislate members and there licenses , registrations and such matters .
 
boracay ranger said:
My contact didn’t pass me the info expecting his name to appear on a football message board so I won’t be doing that.
He is a senior guy in the UK insurance industry who I have known for years and has experience of specialist sports insurance so I trust his info. It’s not a mate from the pub who handles my car insurance!
For me the interesting points are:
The Spfl are now directly involved since it is their insurance policy not Celtics policy that will be subject to any claims.
Celtic’s failure to notify of their awareness and knowledge of incidents which could give rise to claims should see the insurers reject claims.
If funds are not available from insurance to pay claims surely the lawyers will go after Celtic for compensation.
I highly doubt the SFA, SPL, Celtic's or anyone else insurance will every pay out on a claim a company knew about and hid (*while it got worse and worse) for 50 YEARS!

Any underwriter, for any insurer at any level should be able to tell us if that would be the case.
 
Sent to uefa child safe guarding.

Dear sir/madam

I’m writing to you reference the recent revelations and going’s on at Celtic football club. As you are probably aware recently there have been convictions of child abuse and members of the Scottish Parliament now pushing for a full independent inquiry. This includes the leader of the opposition Ruth Davidson MSP. I am just wondering what you’re views are on this subject. I’m also led to believe that the London stock exchange (LSE) have been informed as the club have held a 2 year internal secret investigation (in their words) and not declared this. It was actually a Scottish newspaper that brought this to the public’s attention.
I’m quite confident after being in touch with my own local MP that a full independent inquiry will happen in due course.
Also attached is an email reply from Ruth Davidson MSP to myself and I would also like your view on this.


Thank you for writing to me with your concerns surrounding historical child abuse within Scottish football.

The reports that have emerged in recent years are extremely distressing, and while it is welcome that Jim Torbett and others have been convicted for their depraved acts, this issue clearly goes wider. Any further allegations of criminality must be swiftly investigated by the police so that further criminal proceedings can be brought where necessary.

The Scottish Football Association’s Chief Executive has apologised to those young people who suffered sexual abuse in football and I think he was right to do so. The Independent Review of Sexual Abuse in Scottish Football commissioned by the SFA found child protection policies at all levels were and still are not fit for purpose. The report has made a number of recommendations to address this and I believe they should be implemented as soon as possible. It is vital that we in Parliament play our part in holding the SFA and other bodies to account on this
Further to this, my colleague Adam Tomkins, MSP for Glasgow, has written to Ian Maxwell, chief executive of the SFA and to Peter Lawwell, chief executive of Celtic FC to seek urgent meetings on this subject. Through a series of criminal trials, we now know something of the scale of the abuse committed by a number of the men associated with Celtic boys’ club. What we do not know is what Celtic FC knew about these offences and when they knew it. These questions must now be independently and fully investigated and, if necessary, a compensation scheme should be established such as that set up earlier this year by Manchester City FC.

It is clear that victims of child abuse in football have been let down, and I very much hope Police Scotland, clubs and the SFA will give them the closure they need and the justice they deserve.

Please be assured the Scottish Conservatives will closely monitor developments on this matter over the coming weeks and months.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Ruth Davidson

Rt Hon Ruth Davidson MSP
Leader of the Scottish Conservatives
MSP for Edinburgh Central
Scottish Parliament



Thank you for taking the time to read my email and I look forward to your reply.
Great job Zander ;)
 

Zander73

Well-Known Member
I’ve also got other emails that I have sent to various sponsors. Only Mr green have replied with a standard email.
I’ve took advice on whether to post the last post and I decided to do so after taking advice from someone who I respect that has fought for justice from the start.
I’ve also had posters private messaging me asking for my advice and direction on who to email or contact.
Maybe some of you disagree with the wording or even posting emails without a reply.
I’m proud of knowing the people that I’ve met that are involved with knowing the families that have suffered and the path of coverup that club has taken.
So I’m sticking my neck out here probably. I want justice and that poison of a club brought to its knees. I can post so much more and I’ve kept it to myself.
But Humza done it for me today with his comments about sectarianism and not tackling what the real problem is.
I would also like to say and believe me I’ve tried contacting him on many occasions. I would like to sit across a table with Humza and ask why as a justice secretary of Scotland that he has not taken the appropriate action necessary against Celtic. Or any SNP Member of parliament in that matter. I challenge you and not for an argument but to please explain why you take the stance that you do?
Your party allow a pro IRA organisation to march on our streets in Scotland and nowhere else in the British mainland is this allowed. The call it out scum I’m referring to.
As an ex member of the armed forces that has served I would like to know why you allow this? Obviously for votes imo.
 
I’ve also got other emails that I have sent to various sponsors. Only Mr green have replied with a standard email.
I’ve took advice on whether to post the last post and I decided to do so after taking advice from someone who I respect that has fought for justice from the start.
I’ve also had posters private messaging me asking for my advice and direction on who to email or contact.
Maybe some of you disagree with the wording or even posting emails without a reply.
I’m proud of knowing the people that I’ve met that are involved with knowing the families that have suffered and the path of coverup that club has taken.
So I’m sticking my neck out here probably. I want justice and that poison of a club brought to its knees. I can post so much more and I’ve kept it to myself.
But Humza done it for me today with his comments about sectarianism and not tackling what the real problem is.
I would also like to say and believe me I’ve tried contacting him on many occasions. I would like to sit across a table with Humza and ask why as a justice secretary of Scotland that he has not taken the appropriate action necessary against Celtic. Or any SNP Member of parliament in that matter. I challenge you and not for an argument but to please explain why you take the stance that you do?
Your party allow a pro IRA organisation to march on our streets in Scotland and nowhere else in the British mainland is this allowed. The call it out scum I’m referring to.
As an ex member of the armed forces that has served I would like to know why you allow this? Obviously for votes imo.
Brilliant & passionate mate. From the heart ;)
 

alexg123

Well-Known Member
Nice one Zander , I hope you get a decent honest reply from someone with authority who really genuinely feels that paedophilia within Football Clubs should immediately be investigated and all culprits who have committed those obscene acts and those who covered them up should be brought to justice and punished accordingly .
 
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