buzzardbear244
Well-Known Member
If that being the case then how did they find "a hammer" in Haggerts house after about the NINTH or whatever it was search? Something definitely doesn't add up!!
Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)
- Thread starter Haining84
- Start date
Thedesolateone
Well-Known Member
In the Spotlight movie the Boston Globe must have had the catholic cult infiltrating the Boston media for decades as it took a new jewish editor from another state with no vested interest to push that scandal to its conclusion. I struggle to believe there are no decent human beings within the whole of the Scottish media, surely they can’t all be under the influence of RCC and CFC?
walt mcmurty
Well-Known Member
Definitely set up as a Patsy.
When the American cops screwed over Michael Avery they only needed 5 visits to plant the car keys.
buzzardbear244
Well-Known Member
Surely that should be the headline!
Thedesolateone
Well-Known Member
jim_baxter1960
Well-Known Member
Lots of things don't add up in this case. However one that does add up (from the article above:-
Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
Now where have we heard that surname before? Would it be that he is related to a (now burning in Hell) high profile religious leader?
The old "health grounds" go to excuse to protect the assets.
This case smacks of blackmail and evidence tampering to protect high profile individuals. Would be surprised if this didn't include political figures and the judiciary.
Thedesolateone
Well-Known Member
There’s no such thing as coincidence, especially when you’re talking about this shower of snakes.
Snakehips
Well-Known Member
Alex Thomson, Channel 4, in Glasgow
Not one politician, SNP or otherwise has even mentioned this scandal in Parliament. Utter disgrace. Excellent point, whilst I despise the nationalists and I'm therefore tempted to only slaughter them the rest of the political parties are equally culpable in their cover up of the story and lack...
www.followfollow.com
Lawrence Haggart, 15, was attacked in the living room of his home on the night of 16th March 1996. He was bludgeoned and subjected to inhuman torture (including having his feet set on fire) and died from his injuries on 17th March. There were no signs of forced entry at the property.
Lawrence came through Celtic Boys Club and was signed by Tommy Burns as a Celtic F.C. Youth player. He was expected to sign senior terms the following December.
The lead up to the murder
- Lawrence was coached by McCafferty (convicted paedophile) at Celtic Boys Club.
- McCafferty was a regular visitor to the Haggart home and occasionally took Lawrence to football matches.
- Around the time of the murder, McCafferty was subject of an investigation into allegations of indecency and growing rumours about his abuse of Celtic Boys Club players.
- McCafferty phoned Lawrence’s house on the day of the murder.
- Brian Beattie – a known local paedophile – was interviewed by police the day after the attack but ruled out as a suspect.
- McCafferty was named as a suspect but was not pursued.
- The home of Lawrence Haggart was searched by police 9 times between 17 March and 22 March and no murder weapon was found. On 22 March a detective searching the home ‘discovered’ a hammer in the kitchen (we are to believe that detectives failed to spot this during the 9 previous crime scene searches). This discovery supported a narrative being pushed by investigating officers that Lawrence’s younger brother Dennis had bludgeoned him and set him on fire through jealousy.
- Some investigating officers were intent on framing Lawrence’s younger brother.
- Lawrence had the number ‘110’ written on the palms of his hands and carved into his shoulder (likely done with a key). This has never been explained.
- A few weeks after the murder, McCafferty left Celtic.
- The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police. They had not been subjected to any detailed forensic examination.
- 6 months after Lawrence’s murder, his dad Larry was furious at the lack of progress by police and vowed to ‘act alone’ to find out what happened.
- On the first anniversary of Lawrence’s death, Detective Superintendent Joe Holden, who had recently taken charge of the case, said: "It is perfectly possible Lawrence knew his attacker, since there was no forced entry."
- 19 months after the murder, police identified Brian Beattie as prime suspect. He was on remand for another, unconnected, offence at the time.
- The case against Beattie depended on police evidence of Beattie confessing to the murder, however no confession was ever recorded and Beattie never signed confessions that had been written up by officers.
- At Beattie’s trial, defence lawyer Mr Edgar Prais QC said "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the defence calls the police liars."
- The defence alleged that Beattie was beaten while in custody.
- The defence said it was strange that when Beattie supposedly confessed, no tape recording was made.
- The defence discussed forensic tests that were carried out in Scotland and by the FBI in Washington - in all tests, Beattie was eliminated from any connection with the murder scene.
- Beattie was convicted of Lawrence’s murder in May 1998.
- Following the conviction of Beattie, Assistant Chief Constable James Mackay was ordered to investigate the CID's conduct during the investigation.
- For seven years, Mackay’s report was kept hidden – not even Lawrence Haggart’s family were allowed to see it. Lawrence's father Larry said: "We will not be told the outcome, which is shocking. "It's all cloak and dagger stuff. They don't want us to know what went on."
- However, seven years after the report was hidden, FOI came into existence. Author Russell Findlay submitted a FOI request with the blessing of Lawrence’s dad Larry.
- The report revealed that officers who has searched the house 9 times prior to 22 March were adamant there had been no hammer at the scene.
- The report lists a catalogue of errors made by investigating officers, including: faking entries in an official diary of the murder inquiry; contaminating the crime scene; destroying evidence; losing a possible murder weapon.
- The report concluded that the conduct of some officers was “allegedly criminal”.
- The report criticised the inquiry head DS Jim Winning for not pursuing McCafferty as a suspect.
- Not a single newspaper or broadcaster followed up the damning contents of the Mackay report.
- Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
- Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
- In January 1999, Beattie launched an appeal against his conviction. Beattie alleged the judge allowed certain evidence that was inadmissible. He also claims Lord Dawson misdirected the jury in his summing-up at the end of the four-week trial. Beattie's solicitor said the grounds for appeal included "information that was brought to our attention after the trial".
- Beattie’s appeal was rejected. Following the appeal, the Lord Justice General, Lord Cullen, who heard the appeal with Lord Hamilton and Lady Cosgrove, said they had reservations over Lord Dawson's treatment of the police evidence during Beattie’s trial. However, no action was taken.
- Over 20 years later, Beattie still claims he is innocent of Lawrence’s murder
Found this old post regarding the Haggart case. Credit to the OP for pulling together.
Seems to be limited info on Jim Winning online, other than his involvement in the case. No idea what line of work he entered next, or whether he is even still alive. Still quite a few Jim Winnings kicking about in Scotland though.
The number 110 is prominent in religion for 2 reasons. Firstly, it appears to be relevant to the word ‘angel’ in symbolism. Secondly, the first ever mention of Catholicism apparently occurred in the year 110AD, so one could reasonably argue the number has religious overtones.
Lastly, Cardinal Winning had a younger sibling. Could this be one and the same, or even a relation perhaps?
Regardless, everything about the case screams cover up.
Port Sunlight Ger
Well-Known Member
Great work mate. Blind Deaf and Dumb man can still smell a ratAlex Thomson, Channel 4, in Glasgow
Not one politician, SNP or otherwise has even mentioned this scandal in Parliament. Utter disgrace. Excellent point, whilst I despise the nationalists and I'm therefore tempted to only slaughter them the rest of the political parties are equally culpable in their cover up of the story and lack...
Lawrence Haggart, 15, was attacked in the living room of his home on the night of 16th March 1996. He was bludgeoned and subjected to inhuman torture (including having his feet set on fire) and died from his injuries on 17th March. There were no signs of forced entry at the property.
Lawrence came through Celtic Boys Club and was signed by Tommy Burns as a Celtic F.C. Youth player. He was expected to sign senior terms the following December.
The lead up to the murder
The Investigation
- Lawrence was coached by McCafferty (convicted paedophile) at Celtic Boys Club.
- McCafferty was a regular visitor to the Haggart home and occasionally took Lawrence to football matches.
- Around the time of the murder, McCafferty was subject of an investigation into allegations of indecency and growing rumours about his abuse of Celtic Boys Club players.
- McCafferty phoned Lawrence’s house on the day of the murder.
- Brian Beattie – a known local paedophile – was interviewed by police the day after the attack but ruled out as a suspect.
- McCafferty was named as a suspect but was not pursued.
- The home of Lawrence Haggart was searched by police 9 times between 17 March and 22 March and no murder weapon was found. On 22 March a detective searching the home ‘discovered’ a hammer in the kitchen (we are to believe that detectives failed to spot this during the 9 previous crime scene searches). This discovery supported a narrative being pushed by investigating officers that Lawrence’s younger brother Dennis had bludgeoned him and set him on fire through jealousy.
- Some investigating officers were intent on framing Lawrence’s younger brother.
- Lawrence had the number ‘110’ written on the palms of his hands and carved into his shoulder (likely done with a key). This has never been explained.
- A few weeks after the murder, McCafferty left Celtic.
- The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police. They had not been subjected to any detailed forensic examination.
- 6 months after Lawrence’s murder, his dad Larry was furious at the lack of progress by police and vowed to ‘act alone’ to find out what happened.
- On the first anniversary of Lawrence’s death, Detective Superintendent Joe Holden, who had recently taken charge of the case, said: "It is perfectly possible Lawrence knew his attacker, since there was no forced entry."
- 19 months after the murder, police identified Brian Beattie as prime suspect. He was on remand for another, unconnected, offence at the time.
- The case against Beattie depended on police evidence of Beattie confessing to the murder, however no confession was ever recorded and Beattie never signed confessions that had been written up by officers.
- At Beattie’s trial, defence lawyer Mr Edgar Prais QC said "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the defence calls the police liars."
- The defence alleged that Beattie was beaten while in custody.
- The defence said it was strange that when Beattie supposedly confessed, no tape recording was made.
- The defence discussed forensic tests that were carried out in Scotland and by the FBI in Washington - in all tests, Beattie was eliminated from any connection with the murder scene.
- Beattie was convicted of Lawrence’s murder in May 1998.
- Following the conviction of Beattie, Assistant Chief Constable James Mackay was ordered to investigate the CID's conduct during the investigation.
- For seven years, Mackay’s report was kept hidden – not even Lawrence Haggart’s family were allowed to see it. Lawrence's father Larry said: "We will not be told the outcome, which is shocking. "It's all cloak and dagger stuff. They don't want us to know what went on."
- However, seven years after the report was hidden, FOI came into existence. Author Russell Findlay submitted a FOI request with the blessing of Lawrence’s dad Larry.
- The report revealed that officers who has searched the house 9 times prior to 22 March were adamant there had been no hammer at the scene.
- The report lists a catalogue of errors made by investigating officers, including: faking entries in an official diary of the murder inquiry; contaminating the crime scene; destroying evidence; losing a possible murder weapon.
- The report concluded that the conduct of some officers was “allegedly criminal”.
- The report criticised the inquiry head DS Jim Winning for not pursuing McCafferty as a suspect.
- Not a single newspaper or broadcaster followed up the damning contents of the Mackay report.
- Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
- Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
- In January 1999, Beattie launched an appeal against his conviction. Beattie alleged the judge allowed certain evidence that was inadmissible. He also claims Lord Dawson misdirected the jury in his summing-up at the end of the four-week trial. Beattie's solicitor said the grounds for appeal included "information that was brought to our attention after the trial".
- Beattie’s appeal was rejected. Following the appeal, the Lord Justice General, Lord Cullen, who heard the appeal with Lord Hamilton and Lady Cosgrove, said they had reservations over Lord Dawson's treatment of the police evidence during Beattie’s trial. However, no action was taken.
- Over 20 years later, Beattie still claims he is innocent of Lawrence’s murder
Found this old post regarding the Haggart case. Credit to the OP for pulling together.
Seems to be limited info on Jim Winning online, other than his involvement in the case. No idea what line of work he entered next, or whether he is even still alive. Still quite a few Jim Winnings kicking about in Scotland though.
The number 110 is prominent in religion for 2 reasons. Firstly, it appears to be relevant to the word ‘angel’ in symbolism. Secondly, the first ever mention of Catholicism apparently occurred in the year 110AD, so one could reasonably argue the number has religious overtones.
Lastly, Cardinal Winning had a younger sibling. Could this be one and the same, or even a relation perhaps?
Regardless, everything about the case screams cover up.
The_Irrepressibles
Well-Known Member
If he didn't then someone has deliberately made an attempt to make it look like he did (which points to someone within the police or someone aware of his history). And perhaps not a very good one. Because for a guy who has been setting fires (sometimes to cover up his crimes) since he was a child, he never did a very good job at the Haggart home, did he?
I read an article that lists the crimes that Beattie had been accused/found guilty of. If accurate this makes for interesting (albeit sickening) reading. How he consistently received such short sentences is also an eyebrow raiser. Now after seeing that it's understandable why the police looked at him. However my question from my previous post was how did the police get on to him so quick if they never accessed his criminal record until 1997 as stated in the McKay report. And if one of the officers did have prior personal knowledge of him then why, knowing what sort of character he was, didn't they check his alibi, that turned out to be false (Although his nieighbour does give him an alibi of sorts later).
Anyway, here's a link to the article in question. Also note one of his alleged last victims before the murder of Lawrence is the son of an un-named former Scottish football star. That's curious isn't it? Now I know this family deserve anonymity but was there a connection to celtic here? Even if there's not, there is certainly a football connection between them. Fair chance this son of a footballer played the game himself, or at least was known to others in footballing/coaching circles via his father. How many of these other young victims played for teams I wonder?
Judge missed chance to jail killer Beattie 14 years ago. - Free Online Library
Free Online Library: Judge missed chance to jail killer Beattie 14 years ago.(News) by "Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland)"; News, opinion and commentary General interest
www.thefreelibrary.com
Anyway, there's so much more on this case to digest and disseminate. But doing so takes this thread off track. Of course it deserves a mention on here due to the McCafferty link, but perhaps @BN94 it would be wise to start a new thread in the lounge for this?
BlueBaloo
Well-Known Member
The fact it took them 9 searches before the alleged murder weapon just miraculously appeared.....then they tried to fit up the boys brother before turning their attention to Beattie
I ain't no lawyer but even I can see that the whole thing stinks to high heaven of error and corruption.
Dont get me wrong ..Beattie deserves to spend the rest of his miserable life behind bars for what he has done...but for something he may not have as the result of a clusterfuck of an investigation?
If you had a police force willing to do so.
BlueBaloo
Well-Known Member
Just who is pulling strings in that Dept?
I dont think even liewell has that much shake.
Aranoid Pandroid
Well-Known Member
a police "force" willing to lie.
a government willing to lie.
a so called football club willing to lie.
a separate entity...willing to lie.
a justiciary willing to lie.
they are all willing....to lie
willing to lie to "protect" their own.
I've probably missed out some more organisations/people that are willing to lie to protect.
fekking shocking..
Doesn't matter who it is but it's happened as you will know by the disappearance of the effigy evidence going missing
BlueBaloo
Well-Known Member
When you coherse an entire police force and judiciary system to turn its head and ignore it all it very much matters
dirty_sanshoes
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be so sure about 'archived materials':
"The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police."
Al Needham Loyal
Well-Known Member
After their magnificent work taking down Godley, I noticed that the Daily Beast have a 'tip' email address.
I accidentally sent them something that may be of interest:
Dear The Daily Beast,
Thank you for your recent exposé on Janey Godley. Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg on hidden issues in Scotland.
The second most successful football club in Scotland, Celtic Football Club has had a paedophile ring operating out of it's feeder club, Celtic Boys Club for approximately 55 years. Their defence was initially that it was 'a separate entity' though the two have subsequently been shown to be inextricably intertwined thanks to the efforts of a tireless group of volunteers.
To date, there have been 6 men convicted of multiple sexual crimes against children connected with this club - from "lewd and libidinous behaviour" to sodomising an 18 month old baby.
One of the perpetrators was 'literally kicked out of the club' by their legendary figurehead, Jock Stein, over such allegations in 1974 but the police were never contacted. This was allegedly to 'protect the good name of Celtic'. This man, Jim Torbett, was subsequently allowed to return to prey on young boys again in 1980 and remained in post until the mid 90s.
Scotland's media are barely covering this - if at all - and its left to regular citizens to try and expose the truth (you'll find the twitter pages of @spotlight_cfc66 - a repository for as much evidence as can be found; @heleneg46816352 & @michellegray75 - the mother and sister of a young man who killed himself after a long struggle because of the abuse received and @gordonw09225415 - a survivor of the abuse received who is keen to see justice served useful for corroborating much of this info).
All of these people feel that both the Scottish Court sentencing is laughable, that the Scottish Media are covering this up, and that the Scottish government are also complicit in the whitewash.
BBC Radio 5 live journalist, Adrian Goldberg, managed to raise money to create a documentary on the subject but this had to be done by crowdfunding and can be viewed at
It's worth noting that there is a transatlantic component to this story - Celtic Boys Club attended a soccer tournament in Kearny, NJ in 1991. That trip was marred by the manager, Frank Cairney, who has been charged by Scots police and has been convicted of some of his crimes, but remains to stand trial for several others, raping a boy whilst on tour there. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-boys-club-player-abused-during-us-tour-ddhn0hv52
www.nj.com
This should be Scotland's Penn State moment, but instead is being hushed up (that club provides the largest voting bloc in favour of the ruling SNP political party). One SNP official apparently knew of the allegations and did nothing. (James Dornan @glasgowcathcart - asked if he had been made aware of impropriety when his son was at the club said 'not to the extent of what has come out' - that still implies some knowledge of allegations which were an open secret). The former Justice Secretary, Humza Yousaf has ignored Helene and Michelle Gray for years now, and is ignoring Mr Woods.
As a fan of their rivals, any attempt to have this matter investigated properly is immediately dismissed as petty point scoring and mention of allegations against a coach at our own club are thrown back. I have said repeatedly that all perpetrators of child sexual abuse deserve to be punished and that a full inquiry would be welcomed (links to my own twitter page calling for full inquiry)
I look forward to your response, and hope you do investigate. I have been typing for around 45 mins and feel I have barely scratched the surface.
Yours,
A concerned citizen in scotland
Oops!
I accidentally sent them something that may be of interest:
Dear The Daily Beast,
Thank you for your recent exposé on Janey Godley. Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg on hidden issues in Scotland.
The second most successful football club in Scotland, Celtic Football Club has had a paedophile ring operating out of it's feeder club, Celtic Boys Club for approximately 55 years. Their defence was initially that it was 'a separate entity' though the two have subsequently been shown to be inextricably intertwined thanks to the efforts of a tireless group of volunteers.
To date, there have been 6 men convicted of multiple sexual crimes against children connected with this club - from "lewd and libidinous behaviour" to sodomising an 18 month old baby.
One of the perpetrators was 'literally kicked out of the club' by their legendary figurehead, Jock Stein, over such allegations in 1974 but the police were never contacted. This was allegedly to 'protect the good name of Celtic'. This man, Jim Torbett, was subsequently allowed to return to prey on young boys again in 1980 and remained in post until the mid 90s.
Scotland's media are barely covering this - if at all - and its left to regular citizens to try and expose the truth (you'll find the twitter pages of @spotlight_cfc66 - a repository for as much evidence as can be found; @heleneg46816352 & @michellegray75 - the mother and sister of a young man who killed himself after a long struggle because of the abuse received and @gordonw09225415 - a survivor of the abuse received who is keen to see justice served useful for corroborating much of this info).
All of these people feel that both the Scottish Court sentencing is laughable, that the Scottish Media are covering this up, and that the Scottish government are also complicit in the whitewash.
BBC Radio 5 live journalist, Adrian Goldberg, managed to raise money to create a documentary on the subject but this had to be done by crowdfunding and can be viewed at
It's worth noting that there is a transatlantic component to this story - Celtic Boys Club attended a soccer tournament in Kearny, NJ in 1991. That trip was marred by the manager, Frank Cairney, who has been charged by Scots police and has been convicted of some of his crimes, but remains to stand trial for several others, raping a boy whilst on tour there. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-boys-club-player-abused-during-us-tour-ddhn0hv52
Coach was called a ‘serial beast’ for abusing kids in Scotland. Now, he’s under investigation in N.J., cops say.
Celtic Boys Club manager Frank Cairney brought his team to a New Jersey tournament in 1991.
www.nj.com
This should be Scotland's Penn State moment, but instead is being hushed up (that club provides the largest voting bloc in favour of the ruling SNP political party). One SNP official apparently knew of the allegations and did nothing. (James Dornan @glasgowcathcart - asked if he had been made aware of impropriety when his son was at the club said 'not to the extent of what has come out' - that still implies some knowledge of allegations which were an open secret). The former Justice Secretary, Humza Yousaf has ignored Helene and Michelle Gray for years now, and is ignoring Mr Woods.
As a fan of their rivals, any attempt to have this matter investigated properly is immediately dismissed as petty point scoring and mention of allegations against a coach at our own club are thrown back. I have said repeatedly that all perpetrators of child sexual abuse deserve to be punished and that a full inquiry would be welcomed (links to my own twitter page calling for full inquiry)
I look forward to your response, and hope you do investigate. I have been typing for around 45 mins and feel I have barely scratched the surface.
Yours,
A concerned citizen in scotland
Oops!
Excellent effort @TinyRick.After their magnificent work taking down Godley, I noticed that the Daily Beast have a 'tip' email address.
I accidentally sent them something that may be of interest:
Dear The Daily Beast,
Thank you for your recent exposé on Janey Godley. Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg on hidden issues in Scotland.
The second most successful football club in Scotland, Celtic Football Club has had a paedophile ring operating out of it's feeder club, Celtic Boys Club for approximately 55 years. Their defence was initially that it was 'a separate entity' though the two have subsequently been shown to be inextricably intertwined thanks to the efforts of a tireless group of volunteers.
To date, there have been 6 men convicted of multiple sexual crimes against children connected with this club - from "lewd and libidinous behaviour" to sodomising an 18 month old baby.
One of the perpetrators was 'literally kicked out of the club' by their legendary figurehead, Jock Stein, over such allegations in 1974 but the police were never contacted. This was allegedly to 'protect the good name of Celtic'. This man, Jim Torbett, was subsequently allowed to return to prey on young boys again in 1980 and remained in post until the mid 90s.
Scotland's media are barely covering this - if at all - and its left to regular citizens to try and expose the truth (you'll find the twitter pages of @spotlight_cfc66 - a repository for as much evidence as can be found; @heleneg46816352 & @michellegray75 - the mother and sister of a young man who killed himself after a long struggle because of the abuse received and @gordonw09225415 - a survivor of the abuse received who is keen to see justice served useful for corroborating much of this info).
All of these people feel that both the Scottish Court sentencing is laughable, that the Scottish Media are covering this up, and that the Scottish government are also complicit in the whitewash.
BBC Radio 5 live journalist, Adrian Goldberg, managed to raise money to create a documentary on the subject but this had to be done by crowdfunding and can be viewed at
It's worth noting that there is a transatlantic component to this story - Celtic Boys Club attended a soccer tournament in Kearny, NJ in 1991. That trip was marred by the manager, Frank Cairney, who has been charged by Scots police and has been convicted of some of his crimes, but remains to stand trial for several others, raping a boy whilst on tour there. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-boys-club-player-abused-during-us-tour-ddhn0hv52
Coach was called a ‘serial beast’ for abusing kids in Scotland. Now, he’s under investigation in N.J., cops say.
Celtic Boys Club manager Frank Cairney brought his team to a New Jersey tournament in 1991.
This should be Scotland's Penn State moment, but instead is being hushed up (that club provides the largest voting bloc in favour of the ruling SNP political party). One SNP official apparently knew of the allegations and did nothing. (James Dornan @glasgowcathcart - asked if he had been made aware of impropriety when his son was at the club said 'not to the extent of what has come out' - that still implies some knowledge of allegations which were an open secret). The former Justice Secretary, Humza Yousaf has ignored Helene and Michelle Gray for years now, and is ignoring Mr Woods.
As a fan of their rivals, any attempt to have this matter investigated properly is immediately dismissed as petty point scoring and mention of allegations against a coach at our own club are thrown back. I have said repeatedly that all perpetrators of child sexual abuse deserve to be punished and that a full inquiry would be welcomed (links to my own twitter page calling for full inquiry)
I look forward to your response, and hope you do investigate. I have been typing for around 45 mins and feel I have barely scratched the surface.
Yours,
A concerned citizen in scotland
Oops!
I know Rick has been following this for a long time, and will no doubt probably know what I’m about to say next.
Anyone can become active in this fight and Spotlight will gladly assist anyone with facts.
One important thing to remember if you get a reply. It’s wise not to post the replies in the thread. This opens them up to abuse from the apologists which has happened in the past.
The apologists come in many forms, even threatening me with my life. I’ll never back down or surrender to them along with each member of Spotlight.
There’s still a lot more to come from Spotlight, it’s just frustrating that a certain court case has been delayed again. Believe me, what we have will come out one way or another.
Only a few days ago we handed more evidence to the correct people. Evidence that hasn’t been heard before and only Spotlight and our associates hold.
One thing I will say. I’m ashamed of what my country has become under the poison of the nationalists. How these people in positions sleep at night is beyond me. A government that is riddled with apologists of that club and that only represent the people who support them. A government who has provided a safe haven for paedophiles.
Like Rick states above, we’ve only scratched the surface of how deep this actually goes.
Last edited:
Thedesolateone
Well-Known Member
BrilliantAfter their magnificent work taking down Godley, I noticed that the Daily Beast have a 'tip' email address.
I accidentally sent them something that may be of interest:
Dear The Daily Beast,
Thank you for your recent exposé on Janey Godley. Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg on hidden issues in Scotland.
The second most successful football club in Scotland, Celtic Football Club has had a paedophile ring operating out of it's feeder club, Celtic Boys Club for approximately 55 years. Their defence was initially that it was 'a separate entity' though the two have subsequently been shown to be inextricably intertwined thanks to the efforts of a tireless group of volunteers.
To date, there have been 6 men convicted of multiple sexual crimes against children connected with this club - from "lewd and libidinous behaviour" to sodomising an 18 month old baby.
One of the perpetrators was 'literally kicked out of the club' by their legendary figurehead, Jock Stein, over such allegations in 1974 but the police were never contacted. This was allegedly to 'protect the good name of Celtic'. This man, Jim Torbett, was subsequently allowed to return to prey on young boys again in 1980 and remained in post until the mid 90s.
Scotland's media are barely covering this - if at all - and its left to regular citizens to try and expose the truth (you'll find the twitter pages of @spotlight_cfc66 - a repository for as much evidence as can be found; @heleneg46816352 & @michellegray75 - the mother and sister of a young man who killed himself after a long struggle because of the abuse received and @gordonw09225415 - a survivor of the abuse received who is keen to see justice served useful for corroborating much of this info).
All of these people feel that both the Scottish Court sentencing is laughable, that the Scottish Media are covering this up, and that the Scottish government are also complicit in the whitewash.
BBC Radio 5 live journalist, Adrian Goldberg, managed to raise money to create a documentary on the subject but this had to be done by crowdfunding and can be viewed at
It's worth noting that there is a transatlantic component to this story - Celtic Boys Club attended a soccer tournament in Kearny, NJ in 1991. That trip was marred by the manager, Frank Cairney, who has been charged by Scots police and has been convicted of some of his crimes, but remains to stand trial for several others, raping a boy whilst on tour there. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-boys-club-player-abused-during-us-tour-ddhn0hv52
Coach was called a ‘serial beast’ for abusing kids in Scotland. Now, he’s under investigation in N.J., cops say.
Celtic Boys Club manager Frank Cairney brought his team to a New Jersey tournament in 1991.
This should be Scotland's Penn State moment, but instead is being hushed up (that club provides the largest voting bloc in favour of the ruling SNP political party). One SNP official apparently knew of the allegations and did nothing. (James Dornan @glasgowcathcart - asked if he had been made aware of impropriety when his son was at the club said 'not to the extent of what has come out' - that still implies some knowledge of allegations which were an open secret). The former Justice Secretary, Humza Yousaf has ignored Helene and Michelle Gray for years now, and is ignoring Mr Woods.
As a fan of their rivals, any attempt to have this matter investigated properly is immediately dismissed as petty point scoring and mention of allegations against a coach at our own club are thrown back. I have said repeatedly that all perpetrators of child sexual abuse deserve to be punished and that a full inquiry would be welcomed (links to my own twitter page calling for full inquiry)
I look forward to your response, and hope you do investigate. I have been typing for around 45 mins and feel I have barely scratched the surface.
Yours,
A concerned citizen in scotland
Oops!
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
SPFL & SFA too mate.
brand69
Well-Known Member
Outstanding work. If we can't get justice for the victims of child abuse in Scottish football what does that say about Scotland to the rest of the world.After their magnificent work taking down Godley, I noticed that the Daily Beast have a 'tip' email address.
I accidentally sent them something that may be of interest:
Dear The Daily Beast,
Thank you for your recent exposé on Janey Godley. Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg on hidden issues in Scotland.
The second most successful football club in Scotland, Celtic Football Club has had a paedophile ring operating out of it's feeder club, Celtic Boys Club for approximately 55 years. Their defence was initially that it was 'a separate entity' though the two have subsequently been shown to be inextricably intertwined thanks to the efforts of a tireless group of volunteers.
To date, there have been 6 men convicted of multiple sexual crimes against children connected with this club - from "lewd and libidinous behaviour" to sodomising an 18 month old baby.
One of the perpetrators was 'literally kicked out of the club' by their legendary figurehead, Jock Stein, over such allegations in 1974 but the police were never contacted. This was allegedly to 'protect the good name of Celtic'. This man, Jim Torbett, was subsequently allowed to return to prey on young boys again in 1980 and remained in post until the mid 90s.
Scotland's media are barely covering this - if at all - and its left to regular citizens to try and expose the truth (you'll find the twitter pages of @spotlight_cfc66 - a repository for as much evidence as can be found; @heleneg46816352 & @michellegray75 - the mother and sister of a young man who killed himself after a long struggle because of the abuse received and @gordonw09225415 - a survivor of the abuse received who is keen to see justice served useful for corroborating much of this info).
All of these people feel that both the Scottish Court sentencing is laughable, that the Scottish Media are covering this up, and that the Scottish government are also complicit in the whitewash.
BBC Radio 5 live journalist, Adrian Goldberg, managed to raise money to create a documentary on the subject but this had to be done by crowdfunding and can be viewed at
It's worth noting that there is a transatlantic component to this story - Celtic Boys Club attended a soccer tournament in Kearny, NJ in 1991. That trip was marred by the manager, Frank Cairney, who has been charged by Scots police and has been convicted of some of his crimes, but remains to stand trial for several others, raping a boy whilst on tour there. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-boys-club-player-abused-during-us-tour-ddhn0hv52
Coach was called a ‘serial beast’ for abusing kids in Scotland. Now, he’s under investigation in N.J., cops say.
Celtic Boys Club manager Frank Cairney brought his team to a New Jersey tournament in 1991.
This should be Scotland's Penn State moment, but instead is being hushed up (that club provides the largest voting bloc in favour of the ruling SNP political party). One SNP official apparently knew of the allegations and did nothing. (James Dornan @glasgowcathcart - asked if he had been made aware of impropriety when his son was at the club said 'not to the extent of what has come out' - that still implies some knowledge of allegations which were an open secret). The former Justice Secretary, Humza Yousaf has ignored Helene and Michelle Gray for years now, and is ignoring Mr Woods.
As a fan of their rivals, any attempt to have this matter investigated properly is immediately dismissed as petty point scoring and mention of allegations against a coach at our own club are thrown back. I have said repeatedly that all perpetrators of child sexual abuse deserve to be punished and that a full inquiry would be welcomed (links to my own twitter page calling for full inquiry)
I look forward to your response, and hope you do investigate. I have been typing for around 45 mins and feel I have barely scratched the surface.
Yours,
A concerned citizen in scotland
Oops!
Bring-on-56
Well-Known Member
All of this is the very reason why Police Scotland has been nationalised under the SNP. The organisation used to be regionalised where each region had a Chief Constable…now there’s only one reporting into government level and accountable to them. Why is that exactly? One word - control!
Craigr1977
Active Member
Gordon Woods on my mate’s podcast True Crime News Weekly in Sydney. Good to see it getting a bit of exposure down under. Well played Serkan.
Great post i have not been on the website for a while, so trying to catch up,Alex Thomson, Channel 4, in Glasgow
Not one politician, SNP or otherwise has even mentioned this scandal in Parliament. Utter disgrace. Excellent point, whilst I despise the nationalists and I'm therefore tempted to only slaughter them the rest of the political parties are equally culpable in their cover up of the story and lack...
Lawrence Haggart, 15, was attacked in the living room of his home on the night of 16th March 1996. He was bludgeoned and subjected to inhuman torture (including having his feet set on fire) and died from his injuries on 17th March. There were no signs of forced entry at the property.
Lawrence came through Celtic Boys Club and was signed by Tommy Burns as a Celtic F.C. Youth player. He was expected to sign senior terms the following December.
The lead up to the murder
The Investigation
- Lawrence was coached by McCafferty (convicted paedophile) at Celtic Boys Club.
- McCafferty was a regular visitor to the Haggart home and occasionally took Lawrence to football matches.
- Around the time of the murder, McCafferty was subject of an investigation into allegations of indecency and growing rumours about his abuse of Celtic Boys Club players.
- McCafferty phoned Lawrence’s house on the day of the murder.
- Brian Beattie – a known local paedophile – was interviewed by police the day after the attack but ruled out as a suspect.
- McCafferty was named as a suspect but was not pursued.
- The home of Lawrence Haggart was searched by police 9 times between 17 March and 22 March and no murder weapon was found. On 22 March a detective searching the home ‘discovered’ a hammer in the kitchen (we are to believe that detectives failed to spot this during the 9 previous crime scene searches). This discovery supported a narrative being pushed by investigating officers that Lawrence’s younger brother Dennis had bludgeoned him and set him on fire through jealousy.
- Some investigating officers were intent on framing Lawrence’s younger brother.
- Lawrence had the number ‘110’ written on the palms of his hands and carved into his shoulder (likely done with a key). This has never been explained.
- A few weeks after the murder, McCafferty left Celtic.
- The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police. They had not been subjected to any detailed forensic examination.
- 6 months after Lawrence’s murder, his dad Larry was furious at the lack of progress by police and vowed to ‘act alone’ to find out what happened.
- On the first anniversary of Lawrence’s death, Detective Superintendent Joe Holden, who had recently taken charge of the case, said: "It is perfectly possible Lawrence knew his attacker, since there was no forced entry."
- 19 months after the murder, police identified Brian Beattie as prime suspect. He was on remand for another, unconnected, offence at the time.
- The case against Beattie depended on police evidence of Beattie confessing to the murder, however no confession was ever recorded and Beattie never signed confessions that had been written up by officers.
- At Beattie’s trial, defence lawyer Mr Edgar Prais QC said "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the defence calls the police liars."
- The defence alleged that Beattie was beaten while in custody.
- The defence said it was strange that when Beattie supposedly confessed, no tape recording was made.
- The defence discussed forensic tests that were carried out in Scotland and by the FBI in Washington - in all tests, Beattie was eliminated from any connection with the murder scene.
- Beattie was convicted of Lawrence’s murder in May 1998.
- Following the conviction of Beattie, Assistant Chief Constable James Mackay was ordered to investigate the CID's conduct during the investigation.
- For seven years, Mackay’s report was kept hidden – not even Lawrence Haggart’s family were allowed to see it. Lawrence's father Larry said: "We will not be told the outcome, which is shocking. "It's all cloak and dagger stuff. They don't want us to know what went on."
- However, seven years after the report was hidden, FOI came into existence. Author Russell Findlay submitted a FOI request with the blessing of Lawrence’s dad Larry.
- The report revealed that officers who has searched the house 9 times prior to 22 March were adamant there had been no hammer at the scene.
- The report lists a catalogue of errors made by investigating officers, including: faking entries in an official diary of the murder inquiry; contaminating the crime scene; destroying evidence; losing a possible murder weapon.
- The report concluded that the conduct of some officers was “allegedly criminal”.
- The report criticised the inquiry head DS Jim Winning for not pursuing McCafferty as a suspect.
- Not a single newspaper or broadcaster followed up the damning contents of the Mackay report.
- Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
- Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
- In January 1999, Beattie launched an appeal against his conviction. Beattie alleged the judge allowed certain evidence that was inadmissible. He also claims Lord Dawson misdirected the jury in his summing-up at the end of the four-week trial. Beattie's solicitor said the grounds for appeal included "information that was brought to our attention after the trial".
- Beattie’s appeal was rejected. Following the appeal, the Lord Justice General, Lord Cullen, who heard the appeal with Lord Hamilton and Lady Cosgrove, said they had reservations over Lord Dawson's treatment of the police evidence during Beattie’s trial. However, no action was taken.
- Over 20 years later, Beattie still claims he is innocent of Lawrence’s murder
Found this old post regarding the Haggart case. Credit to the OP for pulling together.
Seems to be limited info on Jim Winning online, other than his involvement in the case. No idea what line of work he entered next, or whether he is even still alive. Still quite a few Jim Winnings kicking about in Scotland though.
The number 110 is prominent in religion for 2 reasons. Firstly, it appears to be relevant to the word ‘angel’ in symbolism. Secondly, the first ever mention of Catholicism apparently occurred in the year 110AD, so one could reasonably argue the number has religious overtones.
Lastly, Cardinal Winning had a younger sibling. Could this be one and the same, or even a relation perhaps?
Regardless, everything about the case screams cover up.
BlueBaloo
Well-Known Member
They have told that many lies they are confusing themselves.
1974; Jock Stein threw Torbett out of the club Torbett himself claims to have founded for abusing boys.
Celtic explained Torbetts departure on "pressure of work"
The same "work" story they used in 1991 when another paedophile was forced to resign in shame.
Using the same lie twice to cover the departure of two high profile Celtic Boys Club paedophiles
Utterly shameful
scottie59
Well-Known Member
That is so damning, question is who were involved with Police SFA and media should be under the spotlight now for not investigating all this, should be held to account everyone of them, I remember watching the film Spotlight where they uncovered this in America and by end of the film it just grew arms and legs right up to cover ups in the Vatican, where someone was accused they would be moved around to another place it is sickening, is this the same Spotlight that is investigating this as it was a news paper in Boston of did the ground work on it all
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Been out of the thread for a wee while but I’ve been watching and reading the posts.
I can see it’s ramping up a wee bit again and that’s no bad thing.
My mate just sent me loads of tweets from Gordon Woods with regards to what’s about to come next and why it’s not a surprise that Rangers have been used as a deflection tool to shine the light away from the real scandal in this country. I told him that the Spotlight boys are all over this and don’t be surprised to see the shit hit the fan soon enough. He, like me finds the whole thing disgusting from that rancid club to the equally rancid people who protect them and become the apologists for them.
@BN94, @Grigo Yossarian, The Spotlight team, , and the rest of you guys, what a job you do! It can’t be easy dealing with this as well as having your own busy lives, taking all the flak and having to deal with some of the most deranged, mental and scummy people who protect these scum and filth and being threatened with your lives won’t be easy at all but I’ll tell you what, if someday soon in the future that fucking filthy, disgusting, rancid excuse for a football club gets dragged through the courts and publicly shamed as well as punished for their horrible and abhorrent crimes, you guys will deserve a knighthood for it!!
I know we’ve spoken privately on a number of occasions and you know how I feel about these rats, but if just want to say publicly about the great work you do. Always stick in at it and don’t give up because those guys need you out there, those victims and the ones who have bee suppressed by the system who never want this stuff to get out, those guys need all the help they can get.
I’ve no horse in this race personally, but as a human being I want that bastard club dragged through the coals for their crimes. Id also like all of those apologists dragged though with them too, because that’s the least they deserve for treating those victims and their families like scum just to protect a club.
Well done folks. Seriously, it’ll all be worth it in the end!
I can see it’s ramping up a wee bit again and that’s no bad thing.
My mate just sent me loads of tweets from Gordon Woods with regards to what’s about to come next and why it’s not a surprise that Rangers have been used as a deflection tool to shine the light away from the real scandal in this country. I told him that the Spotlight boys are all over this and don’t be surprised to see the shit hit the fan soon enough. He, like me finds the whole thing disgusting from that rancid club to the equally rancid people who protect them and become the apologists for them.
@BN94, @Grigo Yossarian, The Spotlight team, , and the rest of you guys, what a job you do! It can’t be easy dealing with this as well as having your own busy lives, taking all the flak and having to deal with some of the most deranged, mental and scummy people who protect these scum and filth and being threatened with your lives won’t be easy at all but I’ll tell you what, if someday soon in the future that fucking filthy, disgusting, rancid excuse for a football club gets dragged through the courts and publicly shamed as well as punished for their horrible and abhorrent crimes, you guys will deserve a knighthood for it!!
I know we’ve spoken privately on a number of occasions and you know how I feel about these rats, but if just want to say publicly about the great work you do. Always stick in at it and don’t give up because those guys need you out there, those victims and the ones who have bee suppressed by the system who never want this stuff to get out, those guys need all the help they can get.
I’ve no horse in this race personally, but as a human being I want that bastard club dragged through the coals for their crimes. Id also like all of those apologists dragged though with them too, because that’s the least they deserve for treating those victims and their families like scum just to protect a club.
Well done folks. Seriously, it’ll all be worth it in the end!
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You could be right mate. I won’t argue with anyone’s point of view on this subject.
We chose to fight this because of the things we’ve seen and heard. When we showed certain people outside Scotland what we have then I’ll never forget what one said. “Why’s this not headline news?”
The reason it’s gone on so long is there’s still more to be found. We strongly believe this, well actually we know this because we know there are still more to come forward, and don’t forget the people who know, and also the ones who knew and took it to their grave.
We don’t know if the club will ever be punished. Your guess is as good as mine.
Crimes have been committed under the name of that club. Children’s lives destroyed (some no longer with us)
Families lives ruined forever.
This has gone on for decades. The crime is the ‘separate entity’ stance, the cover ups, the people who know and put the clubs name before humanity.
Who knows what will happen?
In recent months that clubs support have attempted to take the moral high ground on other issues. How fuckn dare they.
Lainey Love
Well-Known Member
I have read this thread every day but have had nothing to add other than what’s already been said.
You guys are still doing a Stirling job and I humbly appreciate your efforts in exposing the truth, do you think that national coverage will ever be achieved or are we to rely on the Times, who have been fantastic in all of this?
I long for the day when the papers of the idiots finally print the whole sordid truth, hopefully it will happen in my lifetime
You guys are still doing a Stirling job and I humbly appreciate your efforts in exposing the truth, do you think that national coverage will ever be achieved or are we to rely on the Times, who have been fantastic in all of this?
I long for the day when the papers of the idiots finally print the whole sordid truth, hopefully it will happen in my lifetime
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
No, we used the Spotlight name Scottie, after the Boston Globe team.
We are all in UK.
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
Thanks a lot for your comments Paulski.
We aren’t bothered with Knighthoods, to us these people getting justice & closure will be all we need.
And the world to know the truth about that club.
Post 36,240 by BN94 shows just how immoral & sordid their behaviour is.
And we have more hard evidence we can’t release currently in order that we keep our sources protected from abuse & attack mate.
scottie59
Well-Known Member
It was just when I was reading about the murder case and the inspector told to retire on ill health thats what the RCC made out to the priests who were doing the abusing to do go sick and shifted to another parish to continue what he was doing, in regards to Cairney would not be surprised by the way they go about things he will be out the picture soon and not be able to go on trial and averting all the headlines which they seem to do very easy
okbear
Well-Known Member
One thing that would be incredibly beneficial, would bring accountability and highlight incompetence/criminality in this horrendous situation is the recommendations of the Policing - complaints handling, investigations and misconducts issues: independent review being implemented.
www.gov.scot
This would allow, as in England and Wales, the investigation into misconduct of senior officers in their line of duty.
Its crystal clear in my opinion that the old Central Scotland police, Strathclyde Police and the now amalgamated Scottish Police service have potentially/allegedly/definitely (delete as appropriate) covered up or acted in the interests of others or their beliefs and not for the protection of the lieges they swore to protect.
Policing - complaints handling, investigations and misconduct issues: independent review
First independent review of complaint handling, misconduct and investigations since the creation of new Scottish policing structures in 2013. It reviews the effectiveness of the new systems for dealing with complaints against the police, how well complaints are investigated and the processes...
www.gov.scot
This would allow, as in England and Wales, the investigation into misconduct of senior officers in their line of duty.
Its crystal clear in my opinion that the old Central Scotland police, Strathclyde Police and the now amalgamated Scottish Police service have potentially/allegedly/definitely (delete as appropriate) covered up or acted in the interests of others or their beliefs and not for the protection of the lieges they swore to protect.
scottie59
Well-Known Member
Sterling work you guys are all doing but for the love of god why is none of this being taken seriously, its another Jimmy Saville scenario where all the facts are their but nothing being done and the fact so much is being kept quiet and deflected at our clubs expense just how far up the chain does this all go, makes you wonder, wait until one of them dies and blame him for everything as another course in deflection
BlueBaloo
Well-Known Member
There seems to be so many involved and enablers who kept schtum about this over so many years the "juan ghuy" just will not suffice.
scottie59
Well-Known Member
Lets hope for that, cos like the saville character who escaped justice, would like to see them all to be held to account
jf1960
Well-Known Member
This is what it has come too, grown men having lived with this for decades can't come forward because of threats and harm that may come to them if they do
Aranoid Pandroid
Well-Known Member
IMHO every single one of the bast4rds who have already been convicted should have their wee balls chopped off and forced to eat them. And the chunts still to be convicted should face similar. Look how they treat thieves in some countries. They chop off their right hand because that's the hand they use to wipe their arse. Now they have to use the same hand to eat. I could probably think of more ways for these paedos to suffer but don't want banned.
BlueBaloo
Well-Known Member
Tip to nuts..every one of them ..no matter who they are or how famous they are/were
IndonesiaBlue
Well-Known Member
I can’t imagine the effects of the sustained exposure you lads must have experienced over the last couple of years Grigo. Just reading some of the discoveries is disturbing enough for many.
You and the team have, without any shadow of doubt, the will and desire to see this through to the end but look after yourselves too.
