Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

IndonesiaBlue

Well-Known Member
Thanks a lot for your comments Paulski.

We aren’t bothered with Knighthoods, to us these people getting justice & closure will be all we need.

And the world to know the truth about that club.

Post 36,240 by BN94 shows just how immoral & sordid their behaviour is.

And we have more hard evidence we can’t release currently in order that we keep our sources protected from abuse & attack mate.
I can’t imagine the effects of the sustained exposure you lads must have experienced over the last couple of years Grigo. Just reading some of the discoveries is disturbing enough for many.

You and the team have, without any shadow of doubt, the will and desire to see this through to the end but look after yourselves too.
 

BlueBaloo

Well-Known Member
Based on the phone number I wondered if Celtic View was printed in Irvine? Or mailed from Irvine?

Does anyone know?
The celtic view was Jack mcginns baby founded in 1965..McGinn was involved with Beaverbrook papers at the time...did they own any local papers in the area?
 

Houst.

Well-Known Member
You could be right mate. I won’t argue with anyone’s point of view on this subject.
We chose to fight this because of the things we’ve seen and heard. When we showed certain people outside Scotland what we have then I’ll never forget what one said. “Why’s this not headline news?”
The reason it’s gone on so long is there’s still more to be found. We strongly believe this, well actually we know this because we know there are still more to come forward, and don’t forget the people who know, and also the ones who knew and took it to their grave.
We don’t know if the club will ever be punished. Your guess is as good as mine.
Crimes have been committed under the name of that club. Children’s lives destroyed (some no longer with us)
Families lives ruined forever.
This has gone on for decades. The crime is the ‘separate entity’ stance, the cover ups, the people who know and put the clubs name before humanity.
Who knows what will happen?
In recent months that clubs support have attempted to take the moral high ground on other issues. How fuckn dare they.
Brilliant words . The very last sentence is how Everybody should see these C-nts . Totally sums everything up - in FOUR words .........
As you have already stated BN94 - How fucking dare they ....
 

Douglas Meldrum

Active Member
After their magnificent work taking down Godley, I noticed that the Daily Beast have a 'tip' email address.

I accidentally sent them something that may be of interest:


Dear The Daily Beast,

Thank you for your recent exposé on Janey Godley. Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg on hidden issues in Scotland.

The second most successful football club in Scotland, Celtic Football Club has had a paedophile ring operating out of it's feeder club, Celtic Boys Club for approximately 55 years. Their defence was initially that it was 'a separate entity' though the two have subsequently been shown to be inextricably intertwined thanks to the efforts of a tireless group of volunteers.

To date, there have been 6 men convicted of multiple sexual crimes against children connected with this club - from "lewd and libidinous behaviour" to sodomising an 18 month old baby.

One of the perpetrators was 'literally kicked out of the club' by their legendary figurehead, Jock Stein, over such allegations in 1974 but the police were never contacted. This was allegedly to 'protect the good name of Celtic'. This man, Jim Torbett, was subsequently allowed to return to prey on young boys again in 1980 and remained in post until the mid 90s.

Scotland's media are barely covering this - if at all - and its left to regular citizens to try and expose the truth (you'll find the twitter pages of @spotlight_cfc66 - a repository for as much evidence as can be found; @heleneg46816352 & @michellegray75 - the mother and sister of a young man who killed himself after a long struggle because of the abuse received and @gordonw09225415 - a survivor of the abuse received who is keen to see justice served useful for corroborating much of this info).

All of these people feel that both the Scottish Court sentencing is laughable, that the Scottish Media are covering this up, and that the Scottish government are also complicit in the whitewash.

BBC Radio 5 live journalist, Adrian Goldberg, managed to raise money to create a documentary on the subject but this had to be done by crowdfunding and can be viewed at

It's worth noting that there is a transatlantic component to this story - Celtic Boys Club attended a soccer tournament in Kearny, NJ in 1991. That trip was marred by the manager, Frank Cairney, who has been charged by Scots police and has been convicted of some of his crimes, but remains to stand trial for several others, raping a boy whilst on tour there. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-boys-club-player-abused-during-us-tour-ddhn0hv52


This should be Scotland's Penn State moment, but instead is being hushed up (that club provides the largest voting bloc in favour of the ruling SNP political party). One SNP official apparently knew of the allegations and did nothing. (James Dornan @glasgowcathcart - asked if he had been made aware of impropriety when his son was at the club said 'not to the extent of what has come out' - that still implies some knowledge of allegations which were an open secret). The former Justice Secretary, Humza Yousaf has ignored Helene and Michelle Gray for years now, and is ignoring Mr Woods.

As a fan of their rivals, any attempt to have this matter investigated properly is immediately dismissed as petty point scoring and mention of allegations against a coach at our own club are thrown back. I have said repeatedly that all perpetrators of child sexual abuse deserve to be punished and that a full inquiry would be welcomed (links to my own twitter page calling for full inquiry)

I look forward to your response, and hope you do investigate. I have been typing for around 45 mins and feel I have barely scratched the surface.

Yours,
A concerned citizen in scotland

Oops!
An excellent effort Rick. One correction though. Although he did make suicide attempts, Andy Gray died in a swimming pool accident in Australia.
 

alexg123

Well-Known Member
A despicable piece of excrement and a disgrace to the Human race who deserves to be castrated for the safety of the young . How all this can be kept quiet for the sake of a football clubs name being brought out into the open is a National disgrace and those responsible for the cover up should be named and shamed and the club closed down completely as a warning to all sports venues that child safety must be guaranteed at all times if they want to remain in business .
 

Grigo Yossarian

Well-Known Member
I can’t imagine the effects of the sustained exposure you lads must have experienced over the last couple of years Grigo. Just reading some of the discoveries is disturbing enough for many.

You and the team have, without any shadow of doubt, the will and desire to see this through to the end but look after yourselves too.

Thanks a lot D, and thanks for your support on the Anti SNP stuff.

You & I & our full team are very aware of the SNP behaviour in recent years and, most importantly, their attitude in stopping people who have been abused by a major business receiving justice and closure.
 

Div1872

Well-Known Member
Would be unreal if the Daily Beast investigated and were able to expose the scum and paedos who preyed on these poor boys for decades

Would also expose the mhedia and the SNP as charlatans who tried to cover up the abuse and protect CFC’s reputation

Well done TinyRick for your email. I hope they investigate especially the Kearney NJ alleged abuse as it’s US soil
 

BN94

Well-Known Member
Would be unreal if the Daily Beast investigated and were able to expose the scum and paedos who preyed on these poor boys for decades

Would also expose the mhedia and the SNP as charlatans who tried to cover up the abuse and protect CFC’s reputation

Well done TinyRick for your email. I hope they investigate especially the Kearney NJ alleged abuse as it’s US soil
It was reported in the press on July 26, 2019 that an investigation was launched in Kearny. I also had a reply around this time from the chief of police that the investigation was ongoing. Reply below..


This information was recently brought to my attention. The Kearny Police Department Detective Bureau is reviewing this information and is in consultation with the Hudson County Prosecutors Office. I am not able to provide any further detail or information regarding the investigation at this point in time.


Thank You.

………

Chief of Police
 

More feeling.

Well-Known Member


Lawrence Haggart, 15, was attacked in the living room of his home on the night of 16th March 1996. He was bludgeoned and subjected to inhuman torture (including having his feet set on fire) and died from his injuries on 17th March. There were no signs of forced entry at the property.

Lawrence came through Celtic Boys Club and was signed by Tommy Burns as a Celtic F.C. Youth player. He was expected to sign senior terms the following December.

The lead up to the murder
  • Lawrence was coached by McCafferty (convicted paedophile) at Celtic Boys Club.
  • McCafferty was a regular visitor to the Haggart home and occasionally took Lawrence to football matches.
  • Around the time of the murder, McCafferty was subject of an investigation into allegations of indecency and growing rumours about his abuse of Celtic Boys Club players.
  • McCafferty phoned Lawrence’s house on the day of the murder.
The Investigation
  • Brian Beattie – a known local paedophile – was interviewed by police the day after the attack but ruled out as a suspect.
  • McCafferty was named as a suspect but was not pursued.
  • The home of Lawrence Haggart was searched by police 9 times between 17 March and 22 March and no murder weapon was found. On 22 March a detective searching the home ‘discovered’ a hammer in the kitchen (we are to believe that detectives failed to spot this during the 9 previous crime scene searches). This discovery supported a narrative being pushed by investigating officers that Lawrence’s younger brother Dennis had bludgeoned him and set him on fire through jealousy.
  • Some investigating officers were intent on framing Lawrence’s younger brother.
  • Lawrence had the number ‘110’ written on the palms of his hands and carved into his shoulder (likely done with a key). This has never been explained.
  • A few weeks after the murder, McCafferty left Celtic.
  • The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police. They had not been subjected to any detailed forensic examination.
  • 6 months after Lawrence’s murder, his dad Larry was furious at the lack of progress by police and vowed to ‘act alone’ to find out what happened.
  • On the first anniversary of Lawrence’s death, Detective Superintendent Joe Holden, who had recently taken charge of the case, said: "It is perfectly possible Lawrence knew his attacker, since there was no forced entry."
  • 19 months after the murder, police identified Brian Beattie as prime suspect. He was on remand for another, unconnected, offence at the time.
  • The case against Beattie depended on police evidence of Beattie confessing to the murder, however no confession was ever recorded and Beattie never signed confessions that had been written up by officers.
  • At Beattie’s trial, defence lawyer Mr Edgar Prais QC said "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the defence calls the police liars."
  • The defence alleged that Beattie was beaten while in custody.
  • The defence said it was strange that when Beattie supposedly confessed, no tape recording was made.
  • The defence discussed forensic tests that were carried out in Scotland and by the FBI in Washington - in all tests, Beattie was eliminated from any connection with the murder scene.
  • Beattie was convicted of Lawrence’s murder in May 1998.
  • Following the conviction of Beattie, Assistant Chief Constable James Mackay was ordered to investigate the CID's conduct during the investigation.
  • For seven years, Mackay’s report was kept hidden – not even Lawrence Haggart’s family were allowed to see it. Lawrence's father Larry said: "We will not be told the outcome, which is shocking. "It's all cloak and dagger stuff. They don't want us to know what went on."
  • However, seven years after the report was hidden, FOI came into existence. Author Russell Findlay submitted a FOI request with the blessing of Lawrence’s dad Larry.
  • The report revealed that officers who has searched the house 9 times prior to 22 March were adamant there had been no hammer at the scene.
  • The report lists a catalogue of errors made by investigating officers, including: faking entries in an official diary of the murder inquiry; contaminating the crime scene; destroying evidence; losing a possible murder weapon.
  • The report concluded that the conduct of some officers was “allegedly criminal”.
  • The report criticised the inquiry head DS Jim Winning for not pursuing McCafferty as a suspect.
  • Not a single newspaper or broadcaster followed up the damning contents of the Mackay report.
  • Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
  • Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
  • In January 1999, Beattie launched an appeal against his conviction. Beattie alleged the judge allowed certain evidence that was inadmissible. He also claims Lord Dawson misdirected the jury in his summing-up at the end of the four-week trial. Beattie's solicitor said the grounds for appeal included "information that was brought to our attention after the trial".
  • Beattie’s appeal was rejected. Following the appeal, the Lord Justice General, Lord Cullen, who heard the appeal with Lord Hamilton and Lady Cosgrove, said they had reservations over Lord Dawson's treatment of the police evidence during Beattie’s trial. However, no action was taken.
  • Over 20 years later, Beattie still claims he is innocent of Lawrence’s murder


Found this old post regarding the Haggart case. Credit to the OP for pulling together.

Seems to be limited info on Jim Winning online, other than his involvement in the case. No idea what line of work he entered next, or whether he is even still alive. Still quite a few Jim Winnings kicking about in Scotland though.

The number 110 is prominent in religion for 2 reasons. Firstly, it appears to be relevant to the word ‘angel’ in symbolism. Secondly, the first ever mention of Catholicism apparently occurred in the year 110AD, so one could reasonably argue the number has religious overtones.

Lastly, Cardinal Winning had a younger sibling. Could this be one and the same, or even a relation perhaps?

Regardless, everything about the case screams cover up.
The number 110 in Bible is the day of wrath. Retribution and vengeance .
 

Snakehips

Well-Known Member
As far as FIFA were concerned, Beattie and O’Neil were Celtic players at the 1989 Youth World Cup in Scotland.

Both were officially CBC players at the time, neither signing pro contracts until some time after the tournament.

Why would FIFA have them listed as Celtic players when they were Boys Club players, if they were a separate entity as claimed?
 

Cahoochie

Well-Known Member
The number 110 in Bible is the day of wrath. Retribution and vengeance .
It seems 110 has A number of significances in Christian scripture.There’s a website “Riding the beast.com” which gives some insight.
It certainly looks as if the 110 connection should have been a line of enquiry In this dreadful crime.

 

BlueBaloo

Well-Known Member
It seems 110 has A number of significances in Christian scripture.There’s a website “Riding the beast.com” which gives some insight.
It certainly looks as if the 110 connection should have been a line of enquiry In this dreadful crime.

I've heard it said 110 refers to AD 110 and the first time the word catholic was used.

Could be nonsense..It was on another Fan site
 

More feeling.

Well-Known Member
It seems 110 has A number of significances in Christian scripture.There’s a website “Riding the beast.com” which gives some insight.
It certainly looks as if the 110 connection should have been a line of enquiry In this dreadful crime.

Day of wrath in Latin is Dies irae a Latin sequence attributed to santa sabina the forerunner of the University of St Thomas Aquinas! As you say the investigation should be looking at this.
 

unionjock2

Well-Known Member
After their magnificent work taking down Godley, I noticed that the Daily Beast have a 'tip' email address.

I accidentally sent them something that may be of interest:


Dear The Daily Beast,

Thank you for your recent exposé on Janey Godley. Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg on hidden issues in Scotland.

The second most successful football club in Scotland, Celtic Football Club has had a paedophile ring operating out of it's feeder club, Celtic Boys Club for approximately 55 years. Their defence was initially that it was 'a separate entity' though the two have subsequently been shown to be inextricably intertwined thanks to the efforts of a tireless group of volunteers.

To date, there have been 6 men convicted of multiple sexual crimes against children connected with this club - from "lewd and libidinous behaviour" to sodomising an 18 month old baby.

One of the perpetrators was 'literally kicked out of the club' by their legendary figurehead, Jock Stein, over such allegations in 1974 but the police were never contacted. This was allegedly to 'protect the good name of Celtic'. This man, Jim Torbett, was subsequently allowed to return to prey on young boys again in 1980 and remained in post until the mid 90s.

Scotland's media are barely covering this - if at all - and its left to regular citizens to try and expose the truth (you'll find the twitter pages of @spotlight_cfc66 - a repository for as much evidence as can be found; @heleneg46816352 & @michellegray75 - the mother and sister of a young man who killed himself after a long struggle because of the abuse received and @gordonw09225415 - a survivor of the abuse received who is keen to see justice served useful for corroborating much of this info).

All of these people feel that both the Scottish Court sentencing is laughable, that the Scottish Media are covering this up, and that the Scottish government are also complicit in the whitewash.

BBC Radio 5 live journalist, Adrian Goldberg, managed to raise money to create a documentary on the subject but this had to be done by crowdfunding and can be viewed at

It's worth noting that there is a transatlantic component to this story - Celtic Boys Club attended a soccer tournament in Kearny, NJ in 1991. That trip was marred by the manager, Frank Cairney, who has been charged by Scots police and has been convicted of some of his crimes, but remains to stand trial for several others, raping a boy whilst on tour there. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-boys-club-player-abused-during-us-tour-ddhn0hv52


This should be Scotland's Penn State moment, but instead is being hushed up (that club provides the largest voting bloc in favour of the ruling SNP political party). One SNP official apparently knew of the allegations and did nothing. (James Dornan @glasgowcathcart - asked if he had been made aware of impropriety when his son was at the club said 'not to the extent of what has come out' - that still implies some knowledge of allegations which were an open secret). The former Justice Secretary, Humza Yousaf has ignored Helene and Michelle Gray for years now, and is ignoring Mr Woods.

As a fan of their rivals, any attempt to have this matter investigated properly is immediately dismissed as petty point scoring and mention of allegations against a coach at our own club are thrown back. I have said repeatedly that all perpetrators of child sexual abuse deserve to be punished and that a full inquiry would be welcomed (links to my own twitter page calling for full inquiry)

I look forward to your response, and hope you do investigate. I have been typing for around 45 mins and feel I have barely scratched the surface.

Yours,
A concerned citizen in scotland

Oops!
Well played sir,I salute you.
 

BlueBaloo

Well-Known Member
That I like to hear, always thought he was a wrong un.

The whole Burns thing is a strange one that I touched on previously.
When P2 was snared and forced to resign Burns did not run to console the victims of this horrible cnut....Burns ran to console the beast and make a statement that everyone "to a man" at CFC supported him...he was later chastised by Fergus McCann for this.

Burns wanted to clean up the boys club by riding it of a beast..and by doing so he wanted to bring back a man previously thrown out for abusing youngsters in kearny three years earlier.

Then owner Fergus McCann vetoed the move by Burns to bring this man back

Was Tommy Burns blinded by loyalty to his former mentor?

Burns would have been well aware of what happened 3 years previously and dont let anyone try to insult your intelligence by saying otherwise.
 

alexg123

Well-Known Member
I think it’s far from coincidence that as the evidence Spotlight has gathered and the momentum to achieve justice and cast light on these crimes mounts so the “ antii Irish Catholic racism is rife in Scotland“ rhetoric from those who would protect the perpetrators increases.
Many see their ramping up this lie as solely a politically motivated attack on “Unionism”, but I believe it also serves to send a message to the media, ”if you run this story we’ll paint you as vile,sectarian, anti Irish Catholic bigots”.
If they were such good Irish Catholics surely they should be demanding justice for the victims of such heinous crimes especially against young children even by Catholic priests as well as those trusted to run any Boy's or Girl's football teams . Let them show their disgust and anger at ANY reports of paedophilia and they might just find themselves being praised for demanding justice for victims of these horrible despicable crimes by animals who prey on the young .
 

unionjock2

Well-Known Member
The whole Burns thing is a strange one that I touched on previously.
When P2 was snared and forced to resign Burns did not run to console the victims of this horrible cnut....Burns ran to console the beast and make a statement that everyone "to a man" at CFC supported him...he was later chastised by Fergus McCann for this.

Burns wanted to clean up the boys club by riding it of a beast..and by doing so he wanted to bring back a man previously thrown out for abusing youngsters in kearny three years earlier.

Then owner Fergus McCann vetoed the move by Burns to bring this man back

Was Tommy Burns blinded by loyalty to his former mentor?

Burns would have been well aware of what happened 3 years previously and dont let anyone try to insult your intelligence by saying otherwise.
Do you think he was abused and there's maybe a touch of the Stockholm Syndrome about his part in this?
 

EH47

Well-Known Member
If they were such good Irish Catholics surely they should be demanding justice for the victims of such heinous crimes especially against young children even by Catholic priests as well as those trusted to run any Boy's or Girl's football teams . Let them show their disgust and anger at ANY reports of paedophilia and they might just find themselves being praised for demanding justice for victims of these horrible despicable crimes by animals who prey on the young .

RCs and their useful idiots rattle on endlessly about the abuse and mistreatment they get yet the single biggest threat to young catholics is from their clergy, their teachers and their sports coaches, and yet they blithely sit back and say and do absolutely nothing to stop it.
 

jexx

Well-Known Member
The amount of information supplied by Spotlight, and still silence from our useless Scottish government is a national disgrace. Absolutely sickening.:mad:
Keep up the fantastic work, you have our full support.
 
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Coop52

Well-Known Member
Do you think he was abused and there's maybe a touch of the Stockholm Syndrome about his part in this?
Stockholm syndrome is common with the horrible subject.
Barry Bennells victim Andy Woodward was a character witness for Bennell before he came forward as a victim.
Kenny Campbell was a character witness for his abuser before he came forward as a victim.

The stuff posted by Gilbert shows just how much power Campbell’s abuser had over him.
 

BlueBaloo

Well-Known Member
Do you think he was abused and there's maybe a touch of the Stockholm Syndrome about his part in this?

I honestly could not say ...But P2 was certainly a man Burns looked up to and admired..you could say P2 was a close friend and confidant of Burns and as such Burns surely must have been aware or at least made aware of the reasons behind P2's leaving the club previously.
 

unionjock2

Well-Known Member
Stockholm syndrome is common with the horrible subject.
Barry Bennells victim Andy Woodward was a character witness for Bennell before he came forward as a victim.
Kenny Campbell was a character witness for his abuser before he came forward as a victim.

The stuff posted by Gilbert shows just how much power Campbell’s abuser had over him.
Thats a horrible scenario, it's incredible the hold that scum had over it's victims .
 

Broxmeister

Well-Known Member
The time will come when a lot of people who are presently in positions of influence/power will have to answer the question of how a bunch of guys with no training on carrying out investigations and working in their own time have managed to uncover so much evidence relating to the biggest paedophile ring in world sport when the Police and government were unable or unwilling to do this.
As far as I'm concerned these people have through their inaction enabled the rape of children for decades and are every bit as guilty as those carried out the rapes. Make no mistake they will all be hounded and hunted down and the victims will receive justice.
 
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