Then why haven't the victims , who want their day in Court not been told of this confidential information you have ....? To have such information would suggest you are high up in the judiciary , or you know every one of the victims and their lawyers personally to have confided in you , that they are now willing to accept celtcs out of Court offer. ?
Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)
- Thread starter Haining84
- Start date
It was common knowledge that Jock Stein threw one of them out of the club and then reported it higher up. The one he booted out was allowed back in at a later date.
Tommy burns wanted one of them brought back in and Fergus McCann told him to fek off.
I think you must know about this....
PaisleyBlueBear
Well-Known Member
Not far off there
You haven't answered the first part of the question
Kinghornloyal
Well-Known Member
Yes it's common knowledge however that just doesn't equate to guilt in an enquiry.
basiltherat
Well-Known Member
I don't understand this bit. I get the legal concept of a club / company as a legal entity separate from the people but it's not a living thing with a brain so how can it "know" anything?
It can't, only the people who make up that entity ("people involved in the club" as you put it ) can know
So how can people involved with the club know but the club be deemed not to know?
Is there a critical number or type of people who have to know or some other threshold / test before the the club is deemed to know?
The directors and football manager certainly knew it was happening and that can be proved so who else needs to know before the club is deemed to know?
PaisleyBlueBear
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% with you.
THEGOVANFRONT
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong but when these crimes were committed there was within the rules of those that govern Scottish Football a section specifically written up to protect children at Football clubs and their responsibilities towards those children.
Now as far as I know the governing bodies have now felt it appropriate to remove this section from the rule book.
My question is when looking at crimes retrospectively has this been removed to ensure a certain club cannot be punished or would it be the rules in place at the time the crimes were committed that would be applied?
Either way that club paid out on a case in an Edinburgh Court with a six figure sum going to the victim if i remember correctly. Now as far as I know this rule was still in place at that time but Scottiah Football's governing body appears not to have even looked into why a member club was taken to court & subsequently paid compensation to an abuse victim.
I think all of the above tells you where we stand with regards to Scottish Football's governing bodies as they are up to their necks in this too whether that be that directly or indirectly as they are just as responsible for allowing the abuse to continue
Now as far as I know the governing bodies have now felt it appropriate to remove this section from the rule book.
My question is when looking at crimes retrospectively has this been removed to ensure a certain club cannot be punished or would it be the rules in place at the time the crimes were committed that would be applied?
Either way that club paid out on a case in an Edinburgh Court with a six figure sum going to the victim if i remember correctly. Now as far as I know this rule was still in place at that time but Scottiah Football's governing body appears not to have even looked into why a member club was taken to court & subsequently paid compensation to an abuse victim.
I think all of the above tells you where we stand with regards to Scottish Football's governing bodies as they are up to their necks in this too whether that be that directly or indirectly as they are just as responsible for allowing the abuse to continue
Stoorie
Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ!
That is one of the most uninformed, lying statement's I’ve read on this thread, and one of the most blatant examples of trying to excuse the beasts of cfc.
No one turned a blind eye except those protective of peadophiles. Only one club did that and continue to this day.
Bluenose Whistler
Well-Known Member
Yeah that would be the Sunday Masses, remember Labour were the Party who agreed to bringing in the Catholic Schooling system in order to secure the RC vote historically and the attraction of cellic minded MPs at Parkhead Brian Wilson and John Reid who was the guy in my opinion leaned on someone at HMRC to use us as the test case for EBTs and the subsequent damage thereafter plus he shafted British Services personnel as Quarter Master in the MOD during the First Gulf War so no nuetrality from that Party for fairness and he would have introduced cellic to the CO-OP bank for their cheap loans over the years as they also bankroll Labour.
The Natsi's bought the catholic vote with Salmon promising the top bigot in Scotland with promises to switch as most SNP votes came from disenchanted catholics switching. Hamas Useless continued to do favours ignoring Mr Woods, the Grays and other victims as the Injustice Minister, funny how Religious and Sporting CSA were missed out of the National Investigation as we all know the common denominator , the RC Church and it's sporting wing, claiming it would take too long , however no issues with the length of time for 2 Ferries, or the A9 project or the Independence dream to be completed.
Mulholland as the top Law man in his eagerness to shaft the Protestant bastion of Rangers messed up in pursuit of the carpet baggers and cost the Scottish tax payer millions in compensation by not following protocols but again no condemnation from the mhedia with Editors control aka people in prominent positions to influence the narrative of public opinion. Talking of the Law the bias of two tier justice is in plain sight but not called out by responsible people remember a Rangers fan (PUL Community) was jailed for singing a Glasgow folk song whilst drunk losing his job etc, whilst an RC Priest was given 240 hours of Community Service for sexually abusing 4 young girls under the age of 16 who will no doubt need counselling , might turn to alcohol or drugs in later life and could possibly affect any adult relationships they may enter into, where was the outrage again no condemnation en masse by snp msps of cellic fans trashing the Trongate and the anti social behaviour 2 (possibly 3 )years in a row however celebrate in George Square then the condemnation flows from all and sundry, plus policing totally different we endured riot cops the scum nothing and who controls/instructs police scotland? the snp! No doubt singing offensive Irish folk songs but not many jailed.
Will Labour be any better in 2026 who knows? Will they just carry on the Catholic Church wishes to court the RC vote?
Bluenose Whistler
Well-Known Member
Compensation was made out of court agreed basically on the steps outside to avoid progressing as a civil case....bit like just now.
Thanks, saved me replying to that nonsense.
There's a few seem to be arguing that legally, there is no avenue to go after CFC directly, and we should all just move on. Bollox.
CFC should be hammered into oblivion, but receive ongoing protection from the governing bodies (SFA/SPFL) that they control, and spineless, corrupt politicians, who put CFC and the RC vote above the ruined lives of abused, innocent kids.
That protection and an inexplicable apathy from the Scottish population might save them, but an independent investigation should take place, and that vile club will then be held to account.
It's up to the people to demand it via the available channels.
TerryMunro
Well-Known Member
“Section 5 of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 creates a statutory duty to report any suspicions of child abuse i.e. a duty to do what is reasonable in all the circumstances to safeguard the child's health, development and welfare. Failure to report concerns, turning a blind eye or failing to protect a child may result in legal action.”
This was in the legal guidelines of their previous policy that was active whilst the notorious enquiry was ongoing. It states a section of a Scottish act on why they would take legal action against clubs turning a blind eye etc. It is another thing SFA and the media have whitewashed to protect the paedophile football team.
sonowilliam1
Well-Known Member
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He's a bit of a Walter Mitty....not worth bothering about. Talks nonsense habitually
i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
Correct Grigo
9 convicted men all worked at the same club in and around the same time suggests an active paedophile ring was in operation at the piggery for over 40 years and this ring was protected by their club on numerous occasions by their failing to report these incidents to the authorities and covering up with self cleansing in house "investigations" that amounted to claims of "scurrilous accusations" and tailed off with veiled threats of legal action should anyone dare mention their dirty secrets.
You don't get guilt automatically. It has to be proven through a process.
It doesn't equate to guilt but it is a factor that will help prove it. That and all the historic newspaper articles will help prove the guilt.
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
One of our team spent time analysing their time at Celtic BB, and at one stage seven of them were at the club. If that’s not a paedo ring, what is ?
Another frustration for me is this notion the SFA tried to sell that it was a historic issue & they have a protection officer nowadays to stop it recurring. So what’s their excuse on Mark McAuley ?
High Society
Well-Known Member
The Late Ian Ferguson ( sturgeon’s uncle ) was given an Award for his articles highlighting the abuse at CBC over 30 years ago.
Hurlfordbear
Well-Known Member
I like to keep up with this case, hoping the victims get the best results possible for them.
I haven’t heard of Mark McAuley? Is he another one of the horrible lot?
i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
Put it this way G ..i think we can safely say there is no chance in hell these seven beasts all in the same place at the same time were independently abusing kids.
This was organised
The first club in the world to install a child safety officer.
The very fact they needed one in the first place should set alarm bells ringing.
Mr. Coal Fire Man
Well-Known Member
I have always been sceptical of the Jock Stein kickin Torbett out story. This came out in Torbett’s trial when Hugh Birt was giving evidence. Birt respected/idolised Stein and he took his suspicions to him in confidence, For all we know Stein could have been protecting Torbett and making an scene of thowing Torbett out the club for Birts benefit. After all not long after that Stein and Torbett were rubbing shoulders at events and appeared to be on friendly terms. We don’t know if Stein disclosed the information Birt told him to anyone else. As has been asked before why did Birt go to Stein? This is not to say I don’t thinkKelly and McGinn didn’t know what was going on.
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I had just assumed Stein had to accept the situation or lose his job.
i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
Hugh Birt took his concerns to Kevin Kelly not Stein.
Kevin Kelly was also a director in Torbetts Trophy trinkets business and was a close friend.
Kevin Kelly & Jack McGinn knew EXACTLY what was going on at the boys club.
PaisleyBlueBear
Well-Known Member
Of course McGinn knew. His son Francis played for Celtic boys club.
Badger
Well-Known Member
It's why limited liability companies exist is it not? The club can know. You can't simply argue that the company isn't sentient. In the eyes of the law it can know through it board members. If it isn't a LLP then all boardmembers can be held accountable for the actions of the company.
i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
McGinns brother Canon Henry McGinn threw Frank Cairney out of a youth team in Uddingston 10 years before he joined Celtic.
McGinn knew EXACTLY what was going on at the boys club.
PaisleyBlueBear
Well-Known Member
And do you know that Jack McGinn testified in court FOR Frank Cairney and denied all allegations and gave an exemplary character reference !!!!!
Hibs did
Stoorie
Well-Known Member
They didn’t quite turn a blind eye. They sacked a known paedo but failed to call police, therefore further endangering children to his actions.
When they found out, they hid it from the world and hoped it wouldn’t affect them.
They were right. They got off Scott free.
There were two internal investigations , the first one as you say amounted to scurrilous accusations according to them , with strangely not one of the victims spoken to , or contacted on any occasion . The second internal investigation , nobody knows the outcome as they have not advised any findings and it was / is a cunning ploy to evade any questions by replying " No comment due to the on going investigation " which gets them off the hook and out of sticky situations every time. You've got to remember they have a lot of placemen and clever devious bastards on their side in various places and levels in Society as they've been at it for a long time.
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Mr. Coal Fire Man
Well-Known Member
So what is the story about Stein grabbing Torbett by the scruff of the neck and throwing him out the door. I thought this was when Birt went to Stein.
i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
The Stein incident happened in 1974.
Hugh Burt was a decade later .
Hugh Birts seat in the Directors box was revoked after he spoke to Kelly and he later resigned. Forced out for speaking up.
i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
And that horrendous gushing shite Tommy Burns came out with.
Mr. Coal Fire Man
Well-Known Member
Jock Stein covered up sex claims to protect his Celtic; Trial told of order from manager. - Free Online Library
Free Online Library: Jock Stein covered up sex claims to protect his Celtic; Trial told of order from manager. by "Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland)"; News, opinion and commentary General interest
www.thefreelibrary.com
So Birt said at the trial Stein told him that he had kicked Torbett out. There seems to be so many holes in their stories. Any half decent KC would tear Celtic’s defence apart if this goes to trial.
bad boy boogie
Well-Known Member
There were complaints made....they were classed as scurilous.
Ah yes, St. Thomas of the Calton. " Every one at the club to a man is 100% behind Frank Cairney. "
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i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
The complaints about one individual back in 1974 must have been numerous for Jock Stein himself to intervene. Allegedly he told a blubbering Torbett " ye kin stop the Hollywood stuff if it wasn't for those boys you would be going to Jail" before throwing him through the doors.
Clearly from that statement neither Celtic or Jock Stein had any intention of taking the matter any further legally and report him to the authorities the situation as far as he was concerned was dealt with. The board were aware and left it for stein to deal with. The whole thing was then covered up and Torbett left with the excuse of "pressure at work"( the very same excuse was used when Frank Cairney was forced to resign in shame after the New Jersey incident)
As my we granny always used to say..you might not always catch a thief..but you always catch a liar
Stoorie
Well-Known Member
There is no evidence to whether he was a perpetrator or a victim, but he was irrefutably an enabler. He knew as much as Brady and McNeil and Macari and Kelly and Stein and White and Hugh and all of the media at that time, and still do to this day! Yet they say nothing.
Open secret?
It’s no secret. It’s people staying quiet who should burn in hell.
That excuse wont wash when it is no longer an ongoing investigation but dont hold your breath waiting for them to release it once this is all settled
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
Mark McAuley was charged & convicted with 5 abuse incidents between June 2016 & April 2019 not long ago HB.
He was a coach at Celtic Academy mate.
Allegedly Burns phoned home during the visit to New Jersey and told his parents they had just beaten Real Madrid 1-0 and he scored the winning goal .No such game took place. This shows the level he was involved , and controlled by the bheasts .
Huckleberry
Well-Known Member
Habitual molestation and abuse never leaves them, from cradle to grave, the sad thing is the acceptance and justification of such behaviour.
Never mind the victim, protect the cult, brand ,team and religion.
Typically this head in the sand attitude is all too relevant.
Never mind the victim, protect the cult, brand ,team and religion.
Typically this head in the sand attitude is all too relevant.
Was Mcginn not involved with the re -hiring of Torbett in his second stint .? denying any knowledge of his previous behaviour when quizzed..
Noddy
Well-Known Member
The fictitious game was in Spain.
My apologies you're correct ( for once)...
...just as a second though, if the game was fictitious as you say , how can you prove what country it was in ...?
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GBY74
Well-Known Member
Is this fact though?
I'd imagine if you have a squad of youngsters who are out the country for a football game/tournament and one of the players are getting praised for scoring a winning goal in a game that didn't happen then surely one of the other boys would be saying to their parents that that didn't happen.
bad boy boogie
Well-Known Member
Would like to think polis alba would re-open and re-examine these cases in full detail and get kelly,mc ginn ,lawwell and the other board members on the stand under oath,to scrutinise their full involvement in the cover ups ,the payments etc.
i Will Maintain
Well-Known Member
1991: Holy Moley Burns ran to the side of a man who had just been forced to resign in shame due to accusations of abuse...he even made a gushing statement "Everyone at Celtic Football
Club support him ( Cairney) to a man".
Cairney was later convicted for abuse offences.
Tommy didnt visit the victims.
1994: Cairney was involved in the luring of Tommy Burns back to Parkhead to become manager. A photograph of Burns and Cairney appeared on the front page of the Celtic View. He even offered Cairney a job..this was immediately dismissed by Fergus McCann.
This is three years after throwing him out for abusing boys
But hey....Tommys a good guy ....right?
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