Celtic finances

The DazzleGer

Well-Known Member
The aura that club holds regards it,s status within it,s younger support is about to cause them major problems .
A list elite managers that their support believes that club deserves just arent going to be interested without a decent budget which I dont see as being forthcoming and the roll they were on regards big buck player sales looks to be over .
The natural order being restored and how it is viewed over there will be interesting .
 

Blue Skies At Night

Well-Known Member
They are where they are due to their total hatred of Rangers.
I think they have qualified for CL in 2 out of 9 seasons
Their European performances & results especially last few years have shown a truer reflection of how good their team is.
But, they all ignored this on the basis that they we winning trophies domestically against no opposition & more importantly couldn't see Rangers winning again.
They thought they had finished us & that is all that mattered to them. It was no longer about how they were progressing it was all about them being safe in the knowledge Rangers weren't progressing & they believed we never would.
IF we can secure the title this season it will destroy them as a fan base. Financially, they are then left with hoping we can't qualify for CL & do they then take a gamble on how to get back on track which has no guarantees.
Whilst not winning trophies we could see with European results that Gerrard had something & it looks like it could be about to pay off
What do the Bheasts do next?
The irony of them trying to kill us off & inadvertently boosting their own hubris to the point of self destruction is glorious.
 

Northhiglander

Well-Known Member
They’ll likely lose Ajer, Duffy, Elhamed, Laxalt, Brown, Ntcham, Christie, Elyanousi and Eduoard either before the end of January or in the summer.

Even though Ajer, Ntcham, Christie and Eduoard are all entering the final 12/18 months of their deals, I still think they’ll get £30/40million on for those 4 in total.

They definitely won’t be going into admin but they’ll be losing a massive amount of “talent” and downsizing. Whilst at the same time having a more difficult route into the champions league and trying to attract a good manager.

Get this league title wrapped up and invest money wisely this summer and we could be looking at dominating for 3/4/5 years.
Duffy, Elyanousi, Laxalt are all loans so definitely go. Eduoard and Ntcham have made it clear they want to go. So has Ajer. Christie not so sure, he will be there next season for me. Brown has to retire. That is a huge amount of players for any team to have to replace. That is shockingly bad management. that doesn't include hte goalkeeping department Barkas doesn't look like he has the ability so for em they need a decent keeper as well. That is in effect 8 players they need to find.

They recruited well in Turnbull, a very good player. However if the two games in isolation are anything to go by they don't have a lot coming through the youth team. So they need 2 centre backs, a left back, two midfielders, a striker and a winger. Lot to find. Assuming they do find £35m from sales that is only £3m ish a player. Not a lot.

I also think selling players for big fees will be herder this year as clubs count the cost of Covid.

We can kick on here and have a few years in the limelight.
 

Blue Skies At Night

Well-Known Member
Duffy, Elyanousi, Laxalt are all loans so definitely go. Eduoard and Ntcham have made it clear they want to go. So has Ajer. Christie not so sure, he will be there next season for me. Brown has to retire. That is a huge amount of players for any team to have to replace. That is shockingly bad management. that doesn't include hte goalkeeping department Barkas doesn't look like he has the ability so for em they need a decent keeper as well. That is in effect 8 players they need to find.

They recruited well in Turnbull, a very good player. However if the two games in isolation are anything to go by they don't have a lot coming through the youth team. So they need 2 centre backs, a left back, two midfielders, a striker and a winger. Lot to find. Assuming they do find £35m from sales that is only £3m ish a player. Not a lot.

I also think selling players for big fees will be herder this year as clubs count the cost of Covid.

We can kick on here and have a few years in the limelight.
Do they have the option to buy that Elyanousi? Him & Turnbull are really the only ones that look decent out the whole current squad.
 

Discombob

Well-Known Member
They’re trying to cram the banter years into one season :D No one could’ve seen a timplosion of this magnitude happening over such a short period of time. It’s glorious.
Well, they do like stealing things from other clubs and claiming them as their own - it started with players (Hibs at their formation), moved on to songs and then eventually the huddle.

In this case, I'll happily let them lay claim to being the banter club forevermore, as long as Boyd and the Bears are the ones doing the laughing! B-D
 

Northhiglander

Well-Known Member
It’s been amusing to watch them. In Kerrydale there was the usual nonsense about who they wanted but their expectations have gone downhill recently and the desperation to get rid of Lennon means they’ll accept almost anyone. It’s been a strange old season when they’ve gone from recently hoping for Benitez (no chance) to where they will accept almost anyone (except Roy Keane :D).
They need a Macleish type manager, one who can cut costs and still win things. That is hard to find and hard to achieve.

Lesson here is that their hatred of us is more powerful than their passion for their own team. That is why they have shrugged off years of woeful results in Europe as long as they thrash Hamilton and Aberdeen. That is why winning a one horse race has been enough for them when it should never be enough.

We must guard against ever being like that. Our passion for Rangers must always be first above anything else.
 

yardie

Well-Known Member
They are where they are due to their total hatred of Rangers.
I think they have qualified for CL in 2 out of 9 seasons
Their European performances & results especially last few years have shown a truer reflection of how good their team is.
But, they all ignored this on the basis that they we winning trophies domestically against no opposition & more importantly couldn't see Rangers winning again.
They thought they had finished us & that is all that mattered to them. It was no longer about how they were progressing it was all about them being safe in the knowledge Rangers weren't progressing & they believed we never would.
IF we can secure the title this season it will destroy them as a fan base. Financially, they are then left with hoping we can't qualify for CL & do they then take a gamble on how to get back on track which has no guarantees.
Whilst not winning trophies we could see with European results that Gerrard had something & it looks like it could be about to pay off
What do the Bheasts do next?
This is spot on. Only qualifying for the CL twice in nine years is criminal for a club of their size, especially with the easier champions route open to them in recent years.

They were too busy laughing at us in the rear view mirror that thet failed to see the wall in front of them.

We will pay our respects as the juggernaut passes the wreckage.
 
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Norber

Well-Known Member
I think that Covid has ended "fantasy" transfer fees -with the exception of @ top 10 (globally) talented players for the next 1-2 years. There are no players in Scotland at that level.
Any hopes of 10+ million for "squad level " players in EPL teams are pipe dreams in my opinion. It would not surprise me to see transfer fees at 50-75% of pre Covid levels. The current low level of activity in the transfer market is pointing in that direction, with the teams in the lower half not spending much so far. They will take loans but transfers ??
The Scum's demise is perfectly timed for years of ruinous financial performance - ie high salary contracts, lower transfer fees of the 1-2 best talents, lower income (no fans or UCL) , dwindling season ticket & merchandise sales and significantly higher maintenance costs of Leggoland
 

Hillheadbear

Goooooooooaaaaaaaaaaallllllllll
Celtic's finances have been helped in previous seasons by European football and selling players. The problem they have now is that they were bumped out of European football early and they have run out of players to sell. Their most saleable assert, Edouard, has a sell on clause so the profit they will make on him, if they do manage to sell him, won't be that great. And, of course, like us and many others, there is a big hole where gate receipts were in the last few years. The other problem that Celtic have is that their wage bill is much higher than it should be.

To make matters worse for them, the pressure is on to get rid of Lennon and bring in a big name manager. However, a big name manager will not come in unless he is given significant funds to buy the players he wants. That was true of O'Neil and it was true of Rodgers. The alternative is a run of the mill Sottish manager like Hughes or a youngster looking to make a name for himself like Gerrard.

So Celtic are left with two choices. They either downsize by getting rid of some of those big wage earners and getting what they can for their saleable assets or their investors stump up hard cash the way our investors did. Perhaps they even need to do both.

When it comes to Rangers, we will do very well out of Europe this season and that is going to help our finances a lot. However, we can't expect our investors to keep stumping up the millions year in year out. That means we will be selling players. Probably Morelos and possibly a couple more. One of the reasons that Gerrard has been busy getting quality coverage for every position.
 

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
I cant remember the last time an investor put money into celtic.
For DD wasn't it Lennoxtown?

And didn't Haughey purchase Parkhead?

I think you are right. Due to our financial meltdown they have been self sufficient due to an un hindered run at CL supported by some big sales. The myth that they are a financially adept master class is utter pish.

Hopefully this is all about to change.
 

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
I cant remember the last time an investor put money into celtic.
For DD wasn't it Lennoxtown?

And didn't Haughey purchase Parkhead?

I think you are right. Due to our financial meltdown they have been self sufficient due to an un hindered run at CL supported by some big sales. The myth that they are a financially adept master class is utter pish

Hopefully this is all about to change.
 

Grigo Yossarian

Well-Known Member
Duffy, Elyanousi, Laxalt are all loans so definitely go. Eduoard and Ntcham have made it clear they want to go. So has Ajer. Christie not so sure, he will be there next season for me. Brown has to retire. That is a huge amount of players for any team to have to replace. That is shockingly bad management. that doesn't include hte goalkeeping department Barkas doesn't look like he has the ability so for em they need a decent keeper as well. That is in effect 8 players they need to find.

They recruited well in Turnbull, a very good player. However if the two games in isolation are anything to go by they don't have a lot coming through the youth team. So they need 2 centre backs, a left back, two midfielders, a striker and a winger. Lot to find. Assuming they do find £35m from sales that is only £3m ish a player. Not a lot.

I also think selling players for big fees will be herder this year as clubs count the cost of Covid.

We can kick on here and have a few years in the limelight.

Massive amount of hard cash needed in this environment, and despite Desmond having a high net worth, he won’t have liquid resources anywhere near this.

Even if he wants to invest this kind of dough.
 

Candyass

Well-Known Member
I don't think we can shriek with glee at their finances just yet.

Their cost based needs to be reduced, but if we don't trade a couple of players or progress to the CL, we will be in the same boat.

Fwiw I think we will get to the group stages AND sell players for decent money, but lots of variables can hit both of these things.
 

cloodie

Well-Known Member
Where are you getting the 430 000 from mate.
The figure is from their account accounts. A good analysis was done by Kieran Maguire on twitter. He does loads of clubs in the UK. I can't find the tweet where he lays the figures out weekly but here is the annual figure. It works out at £434,615 per week in losses.

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cloodie

Well-Known Member
I don't think we can shriek with glee at their finances just yet.

Their cost based needs to be reduced, but if we don't trade a couple of players or progress to the CL, we will be in the same boat.

Fwiw I think we will get to the group stages AND sell players for decent money, but lots of variables can hit both of these things.
We'll definitely have bad figures as well. The difference is that we know what is coming but the scum support seem totally oblivious to their predicament. Unless they manage to bring in some money during this transfer window I expect them to be a good bit worse than us.
 

wee bud's pit boots

Well-Known Member
They don't have 'the war chest' the scum in the press would have you believe.

As for O'Fritzel, what is his reptation going to be like in the mega business community, if he's seen to be standing up for all the cases of litigation coming their way?

We win this title, we destroy them.
 

Grigo Yossarian

Well-Known Member
We'll definitely have bad figures as well. The difference is that we know what is coming but the scum support seem totally oblivious to their predicament. Unless they manage to bring in some money during this transfer window I expect them to be a good bit worse than us.

The positive for us, as you know, is we are close to 20m a year lower than them on wages / salaries costs, so we at least could go close to break even in a non COVID non Debt situation just by getting EL Group qualification.

They would still lose 10m plus on that basis.

Non transfers out of course.
 

Candyass

Well-Known Member
We'll definitely have bad figures as well. The difference is that we know what is coming but the scum support seem totally oblivious to their predicament. Unless they manage to bring in some money during this transfer window I expect them to be a good bit worse than us.
Listen I think the current situations has helped as we have 4-5 investors who've shown a willingness to put cash in with little return short to medium term.

Celtic have to begin doing something similar. A lot of them banking on selling their assets, McGregor is the only asset they have playing ok, noone is paying stupid money for Edouard or Ajer so they have some tough decisions.

Their structure wouldn't allow for the loan to equity system, I imagine. Which is maybe a good thing in normal terms but now? Not so much
 

Tailwind

Well-Known Member

Finance Guru: Rangers in line to become richest Scot club amid Desmond reveal – Exclusive​

By
Adam Williams speaking to Kieran Maguire
-
21st January 2021 at 4:00pm


Dermot Desmond and Celtic shareholders have given Rangers a helping hand to soon become Scotland’s richest club.

So says finance wiz and new Football Insider columnist Kieran Maguire, speaking after a week of PR gaffes from the Hoops hierarchy.
A widely criticised trip to Dubai and subsequent press conference meltdown from manager Neil Lennon came amid Rangers extending their yawning lead at the top of the Scottish Premiership.


Celtic’s nine-year spell of dominance is collapsing, and so too is their financial advantage over Rangers.

Maguire believes that the Parkhead moneymen’s decision not to invest in the club during their footballing supremacy may have opened the window of opportunity just wide enough for Rangers to slip through.

He told Football Insider: “If the owner had put a little bit of money into the club, and he hasn’t put any money into the club for a long time now, Celtic could potentially have stretched the financial gap over their rivals to make it very, very difficult for Rangers to come back.

“They didn’t do that and now Gerrard’s side are clearly competitive and going to win the Scottish Premiership this year.
“I was on a radio show in 2018 and I said that Rangers just need one big season to eliminate the financial gap between themselves and Celtic.
“If Rangers win the Premiership and qualify for the group stages of the Champions League, that would not only be eliminated but I think Rangers could potentially overtake Celtic in terms of their ability to generate revenue.

“Although Europe is absolutely essential to that.”


Celtic’s revenue fell by 15.8% to £70.2million over the last financial year — a pre-tax profit of £100,000.
Rangers, by contrast, enjoyed an 11% upturn in revenue to £59m, although they posted a £15.9m loss.
The Light Blues are accelerating away from Celtic atop the Scottish Premiership, with the gap between the clubs now at 20 points.
In Europe, they have far outstripped their Glasgow rivals too, advancing to the first knockout round after Celtic finished bottom of their group.

If you look at the numbers published from last year, when we win the league - assuming we then qualify for the Champions league - its not potentially overtake, its guaranteed. Look at what that 30mil or so does to the difference?
 

Bannockburn Bear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I’d be absolutely amazed if Larsson went near them, especially at the current time.

Why would he risk his legacy with the club at a time when we are likely to be on top and they likely face a considerable period of down-sizing? He will have no doubt seen how their hordes have turned on Plaque Charlton.

Coaching Lionel Messi in the sun or Leigh Griffiths in the pissing rain?
 

Tailwind

Well-Known Member
There are countless reasons we could turn the tables financially and while qualifying for the CL is a big part of it, it’s not the only variable.

- Rangers have business interruption insurance. Celtic don’t.
- Their fans are openly talking about not renewing their season tickets already. That won’t happen for Rangers. Rangers could bump the price after this year many would sign up blindly.
- They have a number of key components leaving or running their contracts down. They will all need replaced and they might not recoup the funds they hoped for when they sell.
- They have a number of court cases looming.
- I would suspect they had a bumper year on merchandise last year with Adidas. Not sure losing ‘the ten’ will see another repeat of that.
- They are going to have to sack Lennon eventually and pay him to go. He’s clearly hanging about for severance pay.
- Any new manager may require a compensation payment to their current club depending on who they target.
- We have a winnable tie in Europe so could conceivably take yet more money this year having already raked in more than them.
- And finally if we qualify for the CL via the champions path we can pour rocket fuel on our financial position.

On the plus side for their finance bods, they won’t have to pay out any league bonuses or additional ten in a row bonuses so every cloud...
With Lennon on a 1 year rolling contract if he limps on to the end of this season is there any pay off due?
 

Virgil Hilts

Well-Known Member
With Lennon on a 1 year rolling contract if he limps on to the end of this season is there any pay off due?

He gets paid a weekly / monthly wage for 12 months from the date that they invoke his notice period. Whether he’s manager or on gardening leave.

I’d bet £££ that they've already triggered his notice period, they might also be trying to break him - in a hope that he asks to settle a la Mowbray - by keeping him in situ.
 

Valley Bluenose

Well-Known Member
With Lennon on a 1 year rolling contract if he limps on to the end of this season is there any pay off due?
He's due payment for a period of 12 months from the date they give him his notice.

If they serve notice on him today he's due 12 months in either pay (whilst still working) or in termination of his contract.

If they serve notice on him on 1 Feb then exactly the same thing applies.

Basically they are going to have to pay him for a year whatever they do. Might as well let him take the heat for the next few months if they are having to pay him anyway and he's is happy to continue, knowing his time is up.
 

KirkieRanger

Well-Known Member
celtic can't afford to spend money on players because Rodgers and Lawell gave the squad english premiership standard wages on Scottish premiership income, the two don't match. Many of their players are way overpaid by SPL standards.
They're way overpaid by anybody's standards. o_O

W.A.T.P.
 

sheddensbear

Well-Known Member
CL qualification for them is 2 in 7. They qualified in at least 1 of the previous 2 as well.
They have earned €4.22 in bonuses from Europe. They'll get some TV money and country points. We've earned €7.12 but are also due our share of TV money and country points.
Between 2013 and 2018, their turnover was £300m more than ours.
 
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cloodie

Well-Known Member
Listen I think the current situations has helped as we have 4-5 investors who've shown a willingness to put cash in with little return short to medium term.

Celtic have to begin doing something similar. A lot of them banking on selling their assets, McGregor is the only asset they have playing ok, noone is paying stupid money for Edouard or Ajer so they have some tough decisions.

Their structure wouldn't allow for the loan to equity system, I imagine. Which is maybe a good thing in normal terms but now? Not so much
Which investors are putting money into celtic?
 

two2tango

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I certainly don't find a £40-45m loss for them fanciful. It's exactly in the region I was thinking about.
I think these figures are realistic

they could have major cash flow issues and might even have accountants not sign off them as a going concern

I can only see a fire sale to cover these kind of losses

with no money fir a rebuild without a share issue
 

Coza

Well-Known Member
With Lennon on a 1 year rolling contract if he limps on to the end of this season is there any pay off due?

My understanding would be yes unless he waives it or they have the terminated it already and simple run down some of the 12 months.
 

Virgil Hilts

Well-Known Member
My understanding would be yes unless he waives it or they have the terminated it already and simple run down some of the 12 months.

Could they have him working in another capacity during the notice period.

Something like U21 or ladies team manager?
 

jim_baxter1960

Well-Known Member
Rumoured that Liewell said he was going to nail us to the floorboards. Two points he forgot:-
1. he only used drawing pins.
2. He doesn't have the talent/ foresight that he gives himself credit for.

However, all this talk of admin is pie in the sky. Best bet is that some spiv gets control from Derek Domino (or whatever he is called) and REALLY fleeces them.

UCL money for us and none for them is very important in the coming season, an early exit from Europe altogether would be very beneficial.
 

Tailwind

Well-Known Member
18M in the bank at June 2020. That’s gone. A 13M line of credit was opened in the same month.

No CL money, no EL earnings. No player sales, no match day hospitality. No signings in January, not hard to see why.

Celtic have the biggest cost base in the league by an absolute fucking mile, they’ll be making monumental eye watering losses each month. When Lawwell said they had been the most affected by the pandemic, this is what he meant. If their fans don’t renew in May, they have significant problems.

A perfect storm has wiped out a 10 year financial advantage.

If Gerrard can win a two legged tie to get us into the CL, it will be the greatest turnaround on and off the field any of us will have seen.
What will their Europa League earnings have ended up at?
 

Tailwind

Well-Known Member
18M in the bank at June 2020. That’s gone. A 13M line of credit was opened in the same month.

No CL money, no EL earnings. No player sales, no match day hospitality. No signings in January, not hard to see why.

Celtic have the biggest cost base in the league by an absolute fucking mile, they’ll be making monumental eye watering losses each month. When Lawwell said they had been the most affected by the pandemic, this is what he meant. If their fans don’t renew in May, they have significant problems.

A perfect storm has wiped out a 10 year financial advantage.

If Gerrard can win a two legged tie to get us into the CL, it will be the greatest turnaround on and off the field any of us will have seen.
Oh, and how fucking sick will they be seeing and hearing the champions league theme at Ibrox next year after they shat the bed the last few years
 

Tailwind

Well-Known Member
He gets paid a weekly / monthly wage for 12 months from the date that they invoke his notice period. Whether he’s manager or on gardening leave.

I’d bet £££ that they've already triggered his notice period, they might also be trying to break him - in a hope that he asks to settle a la Mowbray - by keeping him in situ.
Thanks, I didn't really understand how a rolling contract works in terms of any pay off required so good to understand that
 

Disco Deejay

Well-Known Member
What will their Europa League earnings have ended up at?
total7.304.774,00 €
matches190.000,00 €
570.000,00 €
redistributed draws41.864,00 €
participation280.000,00 €
380.000,00 €
280.000,00 €
2.920.000,00 €
ten-year coefficient2.642.910,00 €

In comparison, so far we have:

total9.144.628,00 €
matches570.000,00 €
190.000,00 €
570.000,00 €
190.000,00 €
570.000,00 €
570.000,00 €
redistributed draws167.458,00 €
participation260.000,00 €
280.000,00 €
2.920.000,00 €
500.000,00 €
first place EL group1.000.000,00 €
ten-year coefficient1.357.170,00 €

Redistributed market pool has still to be calculated and will be added at the end of the tournament.
 
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